The 6 Major Sins of Calvinism

[John Zain]

Of course. False Christs abound.
This goes against what Calvinists believe, and the word is OSAS Arminian not Armenians.
Armenians are a geographical culture of people, has nothing to do with the nature of who God is in and how He saves.

So, you're sayin' that Calvinists portray themselves as Christs, 'or maybe you're sayin' they're anti-Christs.

What dominates the Internet are spelling mistakes, and you bash me for typing an "e' instead of an "i"?

Oh, by the way, the Israelites were man's representatives for how long?
That "how long" is how long God's grace lasted with them. To NO avail, my friend.
Man CANNOT choose God without His intervention.

That's one of the major reasons for God orchestrating thousands of years of man's history.
To prove that very thing. Rather important lesson, I'd say.
But, one needs to believe in original sin and the resulting sin nature of man. That leaves the Muslims out.

God said, "All of this garbage has to go to the garbage dump ... a BIG dumpster."
Then He relented and said, "But, I guess I'll invent a PLAN to save some."

Presto magnifico ... along comes the "new covenant" ... where it's God's turn to do the choosing.

How 'bout thou? Chosen yet?

 

[Brother Mike]

Where are the Calvinist???

While I am embarrassed by Envolve's lack of maturity, Not sure exactly sure what side he embraces, even questioning the Christian side which we are commanded to love our neighbor, and not judge.. I still find the topic interesting...

Then He relented and said, "But, I guess I'll invent a PLAN to save some."

Presto magnifico ... along comes the "new covenant" ... where it's God's turn to do the choosing.

Could you please provide a scripture where God stated he only planed to save some..??

1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Could you please provide scripture(s) with a list of those God is choosing?

I searched and have come up with this....

1Jn 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
1Jn 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.

If God did not choose someone (Loved them) then should we just except that for some, it's OK they be tormented with fear, and not bother with them??


Thank you..

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[John Zain]

Brother Mike,

God desired that all could be saved, sure.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />
God provided the means for all to be saved, sure.
God expected all to be saved? No way.
God knew only “some” would be saved.

Should I post a 3-page thread showing WHO God's chosen elect are and WHY?

 

[envolve]

You left out the most important option the Truth, Life and Way.:wink:

That would be in keeping with only 4) osas arminian (big God able to give us free-choice)

 

[envolve]

So, you're sayin' that Calvinists portray themselves as Christs, 'or maybe you're sayin' they're anti-Christs.

What dominates the Internet are spelling mistakes, and you bash me for typing an "e' instead of an "i"?

Oh, by the way, the Israelites were man's representatives for how long?
That "how long" is how long God's grace lasted with them. To NO avail, my friend.
Man CANNOT choose God without His intervention.

That's one of the major reasons for God orchestrating thousands of years of man's history.
To prove that very thing. Rather important lesson, I'd say.
But, one needs to believe in original sin and the resulting sin nature of man. That leaves the Muslims out.

God said, "All of this garbage has to go to the garbage dump ... a BIG dumpster."
Then He relented and said, "But, I guess I'll invent a PLAN to save some."

Presto magnifico ... along comes the "new covenant" ... where it's God's turn to do the choosing.

How 'bout thou? Chosen yet?

They Holy Spirit says they worship a false Christ as proven in this thread.

Just because God chose Israel as a nation in no way suggest everyone in Israel is saved. A person still has to individually receive Christ. And the grace upon Israel is the promise they will be a nation again. While another nation this may not be true of it is true of Israel because they chose freely to respond. God could foresee their free choice.

Original sin is not Total depravity. The latter is a lie, the former is true. You're still made in God's image but your spirit has lost communication to God. This is the biblical meaning of dead here. So by giving your life to Christ your spirit is quickened into life. It is because your spirit is dead to God that you need to give your life to Christ so it can be quickened with God's uncreated life, that is, eternal life.

 

[envolve]

John Zain,

Your lack of maturity is shown in your worshiping a false Christ. It is better to know you are unsaved than to think you are when you are not. I am embarrassed for your pomp.

God is the "Savior of all men [sufficient grace for all to have the choice], specially those who believe" (1 Tim. 4.10) NOT "Savior of some men, specially those who believe" for that is redundantly nosensical.

It is evil to worship your god, for as you recall Hitler sent the Jews to the gas chambers for no other reason than they were born Jews, never giving them the free-choice. If this doesn't give Hilter glory, how can it give your god glory?

As Dave Hunt says, What Love is This? Get his book What Love is This? and Debating Calvinism where he tears apart James White's absurdities.

The lesson here should be the flesh can rationalize anything. Where's the humility? Where's the non-overassuming? Where is the unwillingness on your part to not insert anything into the text?

The truth is not unreasonable but it is unloved. The problem is you have made up your mind now you seek to understand that choice and rationalize it come hell or highwater.

I don't believe you will ever repent as I can see your condition. It is not that you have blasphemed the Holy Spirit so you could never be saved, but you are a hardened Calvinists. Almost always Calvinists as hardened as you are forever lost.

 

[jari]

Nobody seeks after God, but praise the Lord what does God do? He provides us with all sufficient grace, sufficient to have the free-choice. Jesus picked them to be His disciples yet one perished. Why? Because even though they were all given free-choice, one chose freely to refuse God's saving grace. Why did Jesus choose them? For the same reason God chose Israel. Israel was enslaved for 430 years so they had an ear to hear. The disciples had an ear to hear so He chose them. In John 6.44 "raised up the last day" is dependent on a) must be drawn, and b) in being drawn respond to that drawing. To be drawn by God is to receive the sufficient grace to have the free-choice. God never raises up with saints someone who refuses His drawing.

I agree. We have a free will.

But i think you said earlier tha we must choose him and if we havent taken those steps toward him we are not saved?
Well I'll leave that to God who is saved and who is not. Every person can come to the Lord in different way but like said it was God who drew them and gave them the faith..

Rom 9:15-19 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. (16) So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. (17) For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. (18) Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. (19) Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

So it goes according to God's will.... we have free will but God can harden peoples hearts to keep them away and or open their heart draw them and save them.

 

[jiggyfly]

That would be in keeping with only 4) osas arminian (big God able to give us free-choice)

I disagree with your opinion. Your option of choice (4) infringes on God's sovereignty and it ignores too many scriptures.

 

[Brother Mike]

Brother Mike,

God desired that all could be saved, sure.
God provided the means for all to be saved, sure.
God expected all to be saved? No way.
God knew only “some” would be saved.

Should I post a 3-page thread showing WHO God's chosen elect are and WHY?

Good show!!! just trying understand where everyone is at here... I would be interested in that 3 page thread, could that be condensed into a few scriptures??

could we condense that into "For God so loved the world" and then apply the rest of your statements to that, meaning everyone??

------------------------------------------------------
envolve

John Zain,

Your lack of maturity is shown in your worshiping a false Christ. It is better to know you are unsaved than to think you are when you are not. I am embarrassed for your pomp.

We have any scripture where lack of maturity means a worship of a false Christ?

Would lack of Maturity indicate someone as "Not Saved"??

Does the scripture give any remedy for babes, or are they all pretty much unsaved?

----------------------------------------

Jari:

So it goes according to God's will.... we have free will but God can harden peoples hearts to keep them away and or open their heart draw them and save them.

Are there any scriptures that warn us as to prevent the condition of a hardened heart, or does God just decided who's heart is hardened and who's is not?

(hint I covered that passage in Romans in this thread)

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[jari]

Are there any scriptures that warn us as to prevent the condition of a hardened heart, or does God just decided who's heart is hardened and who's is not?

(hint I covered that passage in Romans in this thread)

Jesus Is Lord.

Yes But God hardened pharaos heart. It didnt happen because of his sin etc. God did it..
Which verse in romans are you referring to?

 

[Brother Mike]

God and the hardened Heart..

hey Jari

go back to page 4 of this thread.... My post is in there in a box.. if you have questions... then ask away.... that saves me typing it over again.

be blessed.

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[jiggyfly]

My response was because you misread since you said, "You only counted 6?????????"

I never said how many I counted so why assume otherwise?

I just gave the top 6. Obviously, there are a lot more than 6, but I try to keep it simple to help the owner of these forums to lead him to Christ.

So why misread? I never said I only counted six.

envolve here's a thread you might be interested in and give special attention to Chad's posts. http://www.talkjesus.com/scriptural-bible-answers/29361-calvinism.html

 

[envolve]

I agree. We have a free will.

But i think you said earlier tha we must choose him and if we havent taken those steps toward him we are not saved?
Well I'll leave that to God who is saved and who is not. Every person can come to the Lord in different way but like said it was God who drew them and gave them the faith..

Rom 9:15-19 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. (16) So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. (17) For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. (18) Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. (19) Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

So it goes according to God's will.... we have free will but God can harden peoples hearts to keep them away and or open their heart draw them and save them.

This is within the confines of sufficient grace given to all so nobody is without excuse.

The first active instance, and even Piper agrees which contradicts his own faith, of hardening was the Pharaoh hardening his own heart first.

 

[jari]

This is within the confines of sufficient grace given to all so nobody is without excuse.

The first active instance, and even Piper agrees which contradicts his own faith, of hardening was the Pharaoh hardening his own heart first.

I dont quite agree now..

Bible doesnt say "grace given to all so nobody is without excuse.".

And Bible doesnt say pharaoh hardened his own heart first... and theres no first and second instance of hardening hearts thats significant, only the hardness it self is relevant here and important. Which was like romans says, God hardened pharaos heart. Your trying to make what romans say meaningless.


please backup what you say with scripture. thx!

 

[Brother Mike]

Hardened hearts..

Jari:

And Bible doesnt say pharaoh hardened his own heart first... and theres no first and second instance of hardening hearts thats significant,

Not that I want to defend Envolve's behavior. But, normally Jari, your more sharp than this....

Bible doesnt say pharaoh hardened his own heart first...

If you took the time to read my post, then you would not have posted this..... Who hardend's Who's Heart First???
Do you want me to look the scripture up for you??? (Page 4 of this post)

What if God want to show his power, and make his wrath known....??
Does God just pick some unlucky sap???

Or someone that refused God first, for a long time............ that they themselves believe lies??

If you can't find the scripture on your own... just ask.. or better, read my post on page 4..... the boxed section quote on Pharaoh

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[jari]

Jari:


Not that I want to defend Envolve's behavior. But, normally Jari, your more sharp than this....




If you took the time to read my post, then you would not have posted this..... Who hardend's Who's Heart First???
Do you want me to look the scripture up for you??? (Page 4 of this post)

What if God want to show his power, and make his wrath known....??
Does God just pick some unlucky sap???

Or someone that refused God first, for a long time............ that they themselves believe lies??

If you can't find the scripture on your own... just ask.. or better, read my post on page 4..... the boxed section quote on Pharaoh

Jesus Is Lord.

Exo 8:14-15 And they gathered them together upon heaps: and the land stank. (15) But when Pharaoh saw that there was respite, he hardened his heart, and hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.

Exo 9:12 And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had spoken unto Moses.

Its true that pharaoh hardened his heart in exo 8. But this was about treating israelities bad. You could say pharao was a bad man and had hard heart. Isnt many people like this at some point in his life?

But what comes to letting israel go , God hardened pharaos heart to show his power.
he was vessel of descruction in sense. So, why then pharaoh didnt get change to repent? he had when the plagues came.. But for some reason God hardened his heart so many times he and his army drowned into the sea.
So grace and mercy was not given to him.

 

[Brother Mike]

Hard hearts are bad for you...

Jari:

So, why then pharaoh didnt get change to repent?

how long was God suppose to give Pharaoh??

Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

God waited 400 years I think before getting Israel out of there, He set Pharaoh as King and had blessed him......

Go back some... Look at chapter 5........

Exo 5:2 And Pharaoh said, Who is the LORD, that I should obey his voice to let Israel go? I know not the LORD, neither will I let Israel go.

Now, how's heart was already hardened??? who was very patience with Pharaoh with who endured with much long suffering before pharaoh crossed the line...

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[jari]

Jari:



how long was God suppose to give Pharaoh??

Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

God waited 400 years I think before getting Israel out of there, He set Pharaoh as King and had blessed him......

Go back some... Look at chapter 5........

Exo 5:2 And Pharaoh said, Who is the LORD, that I should obey his voice to let Israel go? I know not the LORD, neither will I let Israel go.

Now, how's heart was already hardened??? who was very patience with Pharaoh with who endured with much long suffering before pharaoh crossed the line...

Jesus Is Lord.

You could say he had change to repent. But you could also say God always knew he was never going to repent and God "endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: " .
So in sense he wouldnt need a change to repent and receive mercy.
He was a "vessel fitted to destruction". And God waited till he would punish pharaoh.

choise was still his in a sense. But faith is not for every man.

2Th 3:2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.


Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.