Your view on the Rapture

[thankful]

Hello everyone,

I have been doing some research on the rapture so that i can get a better understanding of this concept. i would like to know what your thoughts are. Whether or not you are for it or against it, please if you can back up your position with scripture.

thank you all
blessings

 

[steve1979]

gods wrath is not for the believer

1st thess ch 5:9 implies that if you have obtained salvation from christ than gods wrath is not for you. john ch 3:36 the wrath of god abides on those who reject christ. if you will look at revelation ch 6 the seals are being broken begining the wrath of god. remember noah and the ark? the flood was gods wrath the ark was in my opinion a shadow of salvation. noah was spared because he found grace in the eyes of god. romans ch 5:9 justified by the blood and saved from wrath through christ. praise god!!!

 

[Faithful Son]

Hi sister, please read this well laid out and informative thread brother Stephen posted.

http://www.talkjesus.com/evidence-prophecy/8701-rapture.html

I think it's now even more important than ever to teach people about the rapture, since most high ranking church officials, especially those in the Roman Catholic church are disowning the words of God regarding the rapture.

I heard a Catholic Priest, a lady, say that Jesus may have already come, and that there are no specific events that need to occur before the rapture.

This is false and is against God's Word.

God bless
Much love
teraside

 

[HeismyRock]

rapture - false

as we all know, people who believe in a "rapture" use 1 thessalonians 4 as the foundation for that teaching.

we know we are to rightly divide the word of truth, so as not to be ashamed.

in 1 Thessalonians, paul is answering a question: WHERE ARE OUR DEPARTED LOVED ONES?

in answer to the question, THE COMING OF JESUS WITH HIS SAINTS (the departed loved ones asked about) BECOMES THE SUBJECT OF THE 1ST LETTER TO THE THESSALONIANS.

listen to paul:

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.


14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.


15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.


16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:


17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

so, the SUBJECT of the 1st letter to the thessalonians is THE COMING OF JESUS CHRIST. THE SECOND ADVENT.

...........................

now, to understand that a pre-trib/secret/any-kind-of rapture is FALSE, simply read the SECOND LETTER TO THE THESSALONIANS written by paul, to address that very ISSUE!

the thessalonians got upset and believed the SECOND COMING WAS IMMINENT....that it could happen AT ANY MOMENT, that a rapture could take place with they themselves not ready.

again, rightly divide the word of truth and let CHRIST (through paul) dispel that false teaching. paul is very concerned that they so quickly forgot what he had told them about The Lord's Return. he was especially concerned about them listening to "spirits", "words" of men, or even being confused by the first "letter as from us" (or a possible counterfeit)

because of their error, paul's second letter STILL ADDRESSES THE SECOND COMING, but clarifies WHAT MUST TAKE PLACE FIRST

remember, the SUBJECT of this letter is no longer where are the dead, but it is about the Second Coming IN MUCH MORE DETAIL regarding what must happen BEFORE CHRIST RETURNS

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,


2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.


3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;


4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?


6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.


7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.


8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:


9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,


10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.


11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:


12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:


14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.


15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.


16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,


17 Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.

so, the man of sin, the son of perdition has to stand in jerusalem claiming to be God, performing miracles in the sight of men, and all the world will worship him (except those whose names are in the Lamb's Book of Life).

look again at what paul says happens at that time, by the Hand of God, to those who refused knowledge of Christ - God sends strong delusion so that they WILL believe the lie: this happens to them for one reason: because they received NOT the love of the truth.

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,


10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.


11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:


12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

as for all the other places rapturists use to twist scripture, they are easily dispelled by careful study.

John (Revelation) is taken in the spirit TO THE LORD'S DAY (2ND ADVENT) and shown what takes place just before, during and after.

it is JOHN who is called "come up hither"

..................................

Rev 3:9 Jesus promises to keep the faithful from the hour of temptation.
He means to keep them from being tempted to worship antichrist, He does NOT mean He will remove them from the earth.

and so on......


HeismyRock

 

[Faithful Son]

Hi there HeismyRock, please take a look at this article, it is quite detailed and gives a new perception on the Rapture.

Click on the quoted text

Here is the 50 million dollar question - will there be a Rapture of God’s saints before the Tribulation, or will all of God’s people living at that time have to go through the Tribulation and possibly be martyred for their faith?

Biblically, given the Scriptural facts, there is no denying that the believers will be removed from this earth, the events may not be very clear, but the fact that a "rapture" will occur is truth, according to God's Word.

God bless
Much love
teraside

 

[HeismyRock]

rapture

thanks for posting the link....i know this theory well, it is what "makes" the rapture theory "work".
the only problem is, it's false.

first of all, just a couple of things in this site you posted:
notice how the author completely bypasses the very scripture that PROVES there is no rapture..he doesn't go back to the subject of 2 thess: the coming of Christ at the Second Advent.
....................................

"And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming." (2 Thessalonians 2:6-8)

You know the lawless one is referring to the Antichrist because then the verse says that Jesus will destroy him when He comes back for the second time.

But look very closely at the phrase "only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed ..." The "H" in the word "He" is a capital H. This means "He" is either referring to God, Jesus or the Holy Spirit.
........................................

if we actually follow the subject and the object of the SECOND letter written to the thess, the 2nd letter sent to CORRECT error resulting from misunderstanding the information in the first letter, the subject of which was where are the dead?

unlike the rapture theorists, we must start at the beginning of these verses, not by passing the SUBJECT.

listen to paul:

2 Thessalonians 2

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

he's saying i want to talk to you about The Return of Christ and our gathering to Him

2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

pauls says don't be upset by any mischievious spirits, words of men, or even by that first letter i sent you. don't believe that THE DAY OF CHRIST IS AT HAND. it is NOT at hand, is what paul is saying.

3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

and here is the truth.
people WILL try to deceive you, paul says, but The Day of The Lord, the 2nd Advent SHALL NOT COME, not by any means, until the apostasy takes place AS A RESULT of the appearance of the man of sin, the son of perdition (false christ).

paul makes it crystal clear that Jesus will not by any means return to gather to us until the world has been tested by the false one, who will do exactly what paul goes on to describe.

4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

this is the hour of temptation, the time of jacob's trouble, the reign of antichrist....3 1/2 years (though The for the elect's sake The Lord has shortened the days)
who is it in scripture that continually exalts himself above God?
see ezekiel 28, for one.
research son of peridtion...it's satan.

5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

..........................................

let's pick up where the rapture theory takes this scripture: the false teachers and new translations simply capitalize the H in he, making the error simple to accept.

the problem is, in the manuscripts, there is no Divine article with "he who now letteth" the he that is referred to is Michael the arch angel. it is Michael that holds satan, until it is time for him to be cast to earth to deceive.

research letteth.....it means to hold down. when Michael stands up, satan is cast down, and presto, the son of perdition appears in jerusalem.

6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

15Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

16Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,

17Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.

...................................

just examining that single area for awhile SHOULD cause a discerning Christian to research a little further.

 

[Tonyb]

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

As the scripture says above there is defiantly a rapture. But who knows for sure when? The differing theories can sound right. But when the theories are compared one with another (pre-tribulation, post-tribulation etc) things don't look quite so convincing. I've never been convinced by a pre-tribulation rapture though.

What do you think this scripture means? 2 Peter 3:12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God,.. Do you think it means we can hasten Lord's coming in some way?

Blessings,
Tony

 

[kenwyn]

Hastening the day of the Lord

Matthew 24.14 records Jesus saying: "And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come."

There is a hint that Jesus will not return until all the peoples of the world have heard the gospel. So reaching the lost may hasten Jesus' return.

 

[Chad]

Heismy....rapture is Scriptural and not a theory just because you think it is. Let the Holy Spirit speak through you, not your own understanding or flesh. Don't you think its rather strange also that [as of this moment] 10 people voted there will be a rapture and you are the only one who voted now? Consider this food for thought as well. A mere basic one, as Scripture already makes it clear that the rapture is true and will happen on GOD's timing. Otherwise, ask yourself how you will get to Heaven otherwise.

Matthew Henry's Commentary 13-18

13-18 Here is comfort for the relations and friends of those who die in the Lord. Grief for the death of friends is lawful; we may weep for our own loss, though it may be their gain. Christianity does not forbid, and grace does not do away, our natural affections. Yet we must not be excessive in our sorrows; this is too much like those who have no hope of a better life. Death is an unknown thing, and we know little about the state after death; yet the doctrines of the resurrection and the second coming of Christ, are a remedy against the fear of death, and undue sorrow for the death of our Christian friends; and of these doctrines we have full assurance.

It will be some happiness that all the saints shall meet, and remain together for ever; but the principal happiness of heaven is to be with the Lord, to see him, live with him, and enjoy him for ever. We should support one another in times sorrow; not deaden one another's spirits, or weaken one another's hands. And this may be done by the many lessons to be learned from the resurrection of the dead, and the second coming of Christ. What! comfort a man by telling him he is going to appear before the judgment-seat of God! Who can feel comfort from those words?

That man alone with whose spirit the Spirit of God bears witness that his sins are blotted out, and the thoughts of whose heart are purified by the Holy Spirit, so that he can love God, and worthily magnify his name. We are not in a safe state unless it is thus with us, or we are desiring to be so.

Wesley's Notes

4:13 Now - Herein the efficacy of Christianity greatly appears, - that it neither takes away nor embitters, but sweetly tempers, that most refined of all affections, our desire of or love to the dead.

4:14 So - As God raised him. With him - With their living head.

4:15 By the word of the Lord - By a particular revelation. We who are left - This intimates the fewness of those who will be then alive, compared to the multitude of the dead. Believers of all ages and nations make up, as it were, one body; in consideration of which, the believers of that age might put themselves in the place, and speak in the person, of them who were to live till the coming of the Lord. Not that St. Paul hereby asserted (though some seem to have imagined so) that the day of the Lord was at hand. 4:16 With a shout - Properly, a proclamation made to a great multitude. Above this is, the voice of the archangel; above both, the trumpet of God; the voice of God, somewhat analogous to the sound of a trumpet.

4:17 Together - In the same moment. In the air - The wicked will remain beneath, while the righteous, being absolved, shall be assessors with their Lord in the judgment. With the Lord - In heaven.

Greek + Strong + KJV

επειτα ημεις οι ζωντες οι περιλειπομενοι αμα συν αυτοις αρπαγησομεθα εννεφελαις εις απαντησιν του κυριου εις αερα και ουτως παντοτε συν κυριωεσομεθα

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with themin the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and so shall we ever be with the Lord

 

[David39]

Rapture VS. Second Coming (part1 of 3)

The Rapture vs. The Second Coming


The Rapture and the 2nd Coming of Christ are not the same events. The Rapture is when Jesus comes in the air for His Church, but His feet will not touch earth. The 2nd Coming is when Jesus comes back to earth and His feet stand on the Mount of Olives

7 years of Tribulation

In the Old Testament, there were 2 different descriptions of the Messiah—one suffering (Isa. 53:2-10, Ps. 22:6-8, 11-18) and one reigning as King (Ps. 2:6-12, Zech. 14:9,16). As we look back on these Scriptures, we see they predicted 2 separate comings of the Messiah—the 1st coming as a suffering Messiah and the 2nd coming (still future) as a reigning King.

In the New Testament, we have a different scene. Again we have 2 completely different descriptions of events. One is the Rapture and the other is the Second Coming. With the scriptures used, it is easy to see that they are speaking of two completely different events.

Listed below is the beginning of a 3 part list; 5 different sets of scriptures in each. Just reading the bold letters will tell you something. It is plain to see that scripture is talking about two different events. They both have numbers. 1-1, 2-2, 3-3, and so forth.

1. Jesus coming FOR his church. John 14:1-3, 1 Thess 4:14-17

John 14:1-3, 1 Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God[] ; trust also in me. 2. In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. 3. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you

1 Thessalonians 4:14:17
14. We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15. According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

1. Jesus coming WITH His Church Col 3:4, Zech 14:5, Jude 14, Rev 19:14

Colossians 3:4
4. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

Zechariah 14:5
5. And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Jude 14
14. And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

Revelation 19:14
14. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

2. Caught up with Him in the air 1 Thess 4:13-18

1 Thessalonians 4
13. But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

2. Jesus' feet touch the earth Zech 14:4, Rev 19:11-21n

Revelation 19:11-21
11. And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
17. And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18. That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21. And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Zechariah 14
4. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

3. Christians taken first, unbelievers are left behind. 1 Thess 4:13-18

1 Thessalonians 4
13. But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

3. Wicked are taken first, the righteous (Tribulation saints) are left behind. Matt 13:28-30

Matthew 13:28
28. He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29. But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

4. Purpose: To present the Church to Himself and to the Father 2 Cor 11:2, Rev. 19:6-9

2 Corinthians 11:2
2. For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Revelation 19:6
6. And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
7. Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
9. And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

4. Purpose: To execute judgment on earth and set up His Kingdom. Jude 14-15,Rev 19:11-21, Zech 14:3-4

Jude 1:14
14. And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
15. To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Revelation 19:11
11. And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
17. And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18. That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21. And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Zechariah 14:3-4
3. Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5. MARRIAGE: Marriage of Lamb in heaven after the Rapture

5. WAR: Marriage is followed by war on earth at the 2nd coming

 

[David39]

3 part post

Since that was such a long post, I have decided to wait a few days to post the next one. David39

 

[Faithful Son]

Please feel free to share the entire series of posts dear brother, you don't need to wait.

God bless you
Much love
teraside

 

[sunshine307]

Yes David, please post the rest of the series, this part is very well put together. Thank you. :thumbs_up

 

[stephen]

I am enjoying it also..........thank you for taking the time to put it together and share it with us.

God Bless You

 

[steve1979]

how about this one?

Thanks for all of the other posts david39 and chad! check this one out. Luke ch 21 vs 36 Jesus says pray that you will be worthy to ESCAPE these things. What things? The wrath of God. Why else would the Lord say such a thing if it were not possible to escape, just as lot from soddom and gomorrah, noah and the flood. A constant theme God spares the rightous from his wrath. Correct me if im wrong concerning 2nd thessalonians ch 2 vs 3 the term falling away means a removing from maybe referring to the rapture. And yes the temple must be rebuilt in order for the son of perdition to fullfill the abomination that maketh desolate, but I believe that is after the rapture. In vs 8 which refers to the fact that The Lord will consume him with the spirit of his mouth look at revelations ch 19 vs 14 the armies of heaven follow him. Who are they? they are the Church! But whether or not we agree we are still brethren, let this not divide us.

 

[Chad]

Luke 21:25-28

25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;<hr color="#ddeeff" size="1"> 26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.<hr color="#ddeeff" size="1"> 27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.<hr color="#ddeeff" size="1"> 28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Matthew Henry's Commentary:5-28

With much curiosity those about Christ ask as to the time when the great desolation should be. He answers with clearness and fulness, as far as was necessary to teach them their duty; for all knowledge is desirable as far as it is in order to practice. Though spiritual judgements are the most common in gospel times, yet God makes use of temporal judgments also. Christ tells them what hard things they should suffer for his name's sake, and encourages them to bear up under their trials, and to go on in their work, notwithstanding the opposition they would meet with. God will stand by you, and own you, and assist you. This was remarkably fulfilled after the pouring out of the Spirit, by whom Christ gave his disciples wisdom and utterance.

Though we may be losers for Christ, we shall not, we cannot be losers by him, in the end. It is our duty and interest at all times, especially in perilous, trying times, to secure the safety of our own souls. It is by Christian patience we keep possession of our own souls, and keep out all those impressions which would put us out of temper. We may view the prophecy before us much as those Old Testament prophecies, which, together with their great object, embrace, or glance at some nearer object of importance to the church. Having given an idea of the times for about thirty-eight years next to come, Christ shows what all those things would end in, namely, the destruction of Jerusalem, and the utter dispersion of the Jewish nation; which would be a type and figure of Christ's second coming.

The scattered Jews around us preach the truth of Christianity; and prove, that though heaven and earth shall pass away, the words of Jesus shall not pass away. They also remind us to pray for those times when neither the real, nor the spiritual Jerusalem, shall any longer be trodden down by the Gentiles, and when both Jews and Gentiles shall be turned to the Lord. When Christ came to destroy the Jews, he came to redeem the Christians that were persecuted and oppressed by them; and then had the churches rest. When he comes to judge the world, he will redeem all that are his from their troubles. So fully did the Divine judgements come upon the Jews, that their city is set as an example before us, to show that sins will not pass unpunished; and that the terrors of the Lord, and his threatenings against impenitent sinners, will all come to pass, even as his word was true, and his wrath great upon Jerusalem.

Wesley's Notes

21:25 And there shall be - Before the great day, which was typified by the destruction of Jerusalem: signs - Different from those mentioned Lu 21:11, and c. Mt 24:29; Mr 13:24.<hr color="#ddeeff" size="1"> 21:28 Now when these things - Mentioned Lu 21:8,10, and c, begin to come to pass, look up with firm faith, and lift up your heads with joy: for your redemption out of many troubles draweth nigh, by God's destroying your implacable enemies.

 

[David39]

Rapture vs. Second Coming of Christ


Part 2of3

6. Happens in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye (too fast for eyes to see) 1 Cor. 15:52

1 Corinthians 15:52
52. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

6. Slow coming, people will see Him come back. Zech 12:10 Matt 24:30, Rev 1:7

Zechariah 12:10
10. And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Matthew 24:30
30. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Revelation 1:7
7. Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

7. Only Christians will see Him 1 John 3:2, 1 Cor 15:52

John 3:2
2. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

1 Corinthians 15:52
52. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

7. Every eye will see Him Rev. 1:7

Revelation 1:7
7. Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

8. Jesus descends with a shout(for resurrection) 1 Thess 4:16

1 Thessalonians 4:16
16. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

8. No shout mentioned Rev. 19:11-21

Revelation 19:11
11. And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
17. And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18. That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21. And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

9. A resurrection takes place 1 Thess 4:13-18, 1 Cor 15:51-54

1 Thessalonians 4:13
13. But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

1 Corinthians 15:51
51. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

9. No resurrection mentioned Rev 1:7, 19:11-21, Zech 12:10, 14:4-5

Revelation 1:7
7. Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Revelation 19:11
11. And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
17. And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18. That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21. And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Zechariah 12:10
10. And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

10. Can happen at any time Rev 3:3, 1 Thess 5:4-6

Revelation 3:3
3. Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

1 Thessalonians 5:4
4. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

10. Occurs at end of 7 years of Tribulation Dan 9:24-27, Matt 24:29-30, 2 Thess 2:3-8

Daniel 9:24
24. Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25. Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Matthew 24:29
29. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

2 Thessalonians 2:3
3. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4. Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6. And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

 

[David39]

Rapture Vs. Second Coming of Christ


11. No angels are sent to gather (resurrected people don't need angels to help them)

11. Angels sent forth to gather people together for judgment Matt 13:39, 41, 49, 24:31, 25:31, 2 Thess 1:7-10

Matthew 13:39
39. The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
41.The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
49. So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

Matthew 24:31
31. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Matthew 25:31
31. When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

2 Thessalonians 1:7
7. And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8. In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9. Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10. When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

12. Spirits of those dead in Christ return with Jesus to receive their resurrected bodies 1 Thess 4:14-16

1 Thessalonians 4:14
14. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

12. Christians return with Jesus in already resurrected bodies riding on white horses. Rev 19:11-21

Rev 19:11
11. And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
17. And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18. That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21. And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

13. Jesus does not return on a white horse for the rapture

13. Jesus returns on a white horse at his second coming. Rev 19:11

Revelation 19:11
11. And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

14. For the Church only (those in Christ) 1 Thess 4:14-17

1 Thessalonians 4:14
14. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

14. For redeemed Israel & Gentiles Rom 11:25-27

Romans 11:25-27
25. For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.
26. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27. For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Matt 25:31-40
31. When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32. And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33. And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world

Matt 25:41-46
41. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42. For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43. I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45. Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

15. A message of hope and comfort. 1 Thess 4:18

1Thess 4:18
18. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Titus 2:13, Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

1 John 3:3, And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

15. A message of judgment Joel 3:12-16, Rev 19:11-21, Mal 4:5

Joel 3:12
12. Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the Valley of Jehoshaphat for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.
13. Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.
14. Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
15. The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
16. The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.

Revelation 19:11
11. And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
17. And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18. That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21. And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Malachi 4:5
5. Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:


End of message

 

[stephen]

Excellent brother David. You have blessed us indeed. As I mentioned earlier, thankyou for taking the time to put it together, and to post it on t.j.

I am so pleased to see that there are people getting hold of the teaching of scripture, and giving forth. Right up my street brother.


God Bless You

 

[sunshine307]

Amen to that Stephen. Thanks again brother David.