You Don't Have to Go to Church to Be a Christian???

[Dave M]

 

[amadeus2]

And so on it goes! Probably too many people meet together calling it a church service or gathering or assembly but do not concern themselves with what God desires and/or expects from them. This is the problem with too many church groups and/or church goers.

"For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." Matt 18:20

Some people, no too many people meet together but are not in his name, and don't really want to be enough to do whatever it takes to be there. If we are not there, neither is Jesus, so what is that gathering?

If less than two are "in His name", how can we call it a church in the biblical sense no matter where the physical place of meeting is?

Arguing that we all should or that we always should not meet together with other believers [people who are "in His name" at least part of the time] is a waste of time that should spent as God directs. If He directs you to assemble with a certain group at a certain time, do so. If on the other hand, He directs you to NOT assemble with a certain group at a certain time, then do not!

I answer to some people's questions consider this verse:

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:" John 10:27

Are we His sheep or not? If we are then we should be hearing Him and obeying. If we are not hearing, what is the reason? Perhaps we are listening to so voices, we have lost track of His voice. That is a problem for certain...

 

[Lanolin]

Well I know I am his sheep and He's me told me to go where other believers are and thats...in church. Even when I went to a home group that was part of a church too.

When I gathered in workplaces and in libraries at various times and days of the week to have bible study guess where the believers spent their sundays usually...in church!

We are to have fellowship with one another and its no surprise when the church was first born there were like 5000 people added to it. Thats a lot of believers and makes for a great choir when the time comes to worship.

And if I recall when Jesus did his miracle of loaves and fishes there were like 5000 people to feed.

Of course not every gathering is of this size but you get the picture. In heaven there will be heaps of people! Jesus himself said in my fathers House there are many mansions, I go there to prepare a place for you...

Its not just you and Jesus and maybe your spouse (if you have one) there are going to be lots of people there and we are ALL going to get along.

I get that sometimes people feel like church is too big for them. Well start with a home group first and make friends and then you will have someone to sit next to in church if you completely new and dont know anyone. The important thing is you go where God is and fellowship where He wants you to and for believers thats with church. Church is just an assembly or gathering of believers and often its in one place on a regular basis and we call that place church. Dont ever be afraid of going where God calls you to go.

Missions people say they 'plant churches' ..why? Cos in places where there are no visible churches believer have literally nowhere to go where they can worship and fellowhship freely. They have to worship underground..literally! We need each other, thats why there is church. Church doesnt just randomly happen. The apostle paul evangelised and silas and barnabas helped plant these churches all over the mediterranean. Jesus even said the church in...xxx place. Location is important! He said to believers to go from Jerusalem to samaria and to the ends of the earth.

Well lets see if anyone has planted a church in antarctica cos maybe when its near the end there will be a place there for us too!

 

[Lanolin]

I dont think there is anything to be gained from arguing against church, if there are times when you arent going because of circumstances or you do have a good home fellowship than thats fine just dont snub other believers in the process.

If there are those who are taking the Lords name in vain then just dont go there. you CAN vote with your feet. They may be proclaiming a false gospel and the Bible does tell us to mark them and avoid them. Shake the dust off your feet if they wont receive you.. Dont let the litttle foxes spoil the vine. Keep abiding in Him.

 

[amadeus2]

And always give God the glory for bringing us to where He wants us to be!

 

[Sue J Love]

And always give God the glory for bringing us to where He wants us to be!

Amen! Absolutely!! All glory belongs to God for any good that he does in our lives. Oh, and I pray he will continue working in me to bring me to where he wants me to be in all ways. I want to be HIS and HIS alone.

 

[Curtis]

Sometimes when a person goes to Church it is an act of futility. As Jesus once said, "God is a Spirit, and they that worship him must worship him in Spirit, and truth" (John 4:24) Jesus wrote to the Church in Sardis through the Apostle John and he said to them, "....I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead." (Revelations 3:1) There are many many Church's today who have made a name for themselves, and are considered "lively", but are "dead"
This could be a good reason why not to go to a specific Church!!! But, not all is lost in this dead Church, as Jesus also said this to them, " Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy." (Revelations 3:4) If the Church, which are made up of people, and not a physical building, were not here on earth, God's Judgement would come down on those who know not God. Even with in a dead Church, God's judgement is stayed because of the righteous in a dead Church though they be few!!!

 

[Sue J Love]

God's judgement is stayed because of the righteous in a dead Church though they be few!!!

Would you mind supplying a scripture that supports this?

My understanding is that God's judgment is stayed, for now, because he is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance:

The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. 2 Pet. 3:9 ESV

Or, for this reason:

They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been. Rev. 6:10-11 ESV

 

[Curtis]

Would you mind supplying a scripture that supports this?

My understanding is that God's judgment is stayed, for now, because he is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance:

The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. 2 Pet. 3:9 ESV

Or, for this reason:

They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been. Rev. 6:10-11 ESV

The Church will not go through the great tribulation as they will have been raptured before that time. Those who are left will have to die for what they believe if they want to be saved, and their death will not be by the hand of God.

The Lord would not destroy Sodom, and Gomorrah until Lot and his family were gone from there. It just so happens that Lot had ten people in his family.

Gen 18:25 That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?
Gen 18:26 And the LORD said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.

Gen 18:32 Then he said, “Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak again but this once. Suppose ten are found there.” He answered, “For the sake of ten I will not destroy it.”

• 1 - Lot
• 1 - His wife ( who was turned into pillar of salt)
• 2 - sons-in-law (Gen 19 v.14) ie plural - [this means he had at least 2 married daughters]
• 2 - married daughters
• 2 unmarried daughters (Gen 19 v.15) -1 became mother of Moabites
• 2 sons (Gen 19v.12) ie plural so at least 2

 

[Sue J Love]

The Church will not go through the great tribulation as they will have been raptured before that time. Those who are left will have to die for what they believe if they want to be saved, and their death will not be by the hand of God.

The Lord would not destroy Sodom, and Gomorrah until Lot and his family were gone from there. It just so happens that Lot had ten people in his family.

Gen 18:25 That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?
Gen 18:26 And the LORD said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.

Gen 18:32 Then he said, “Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak again but this once. Suppose ten are found there.” He answered, “For the sake of ten I will not destroy it.”

• 1 - Lot
• 1 - His wife ( who was turned into pillar of salt)
• 2 - sons-in-law (Gen 19 v.14) ie plural - [this means he had at least 2 married daughters]
• 2 - married daughters
• 2 unmarried daughters (Gen 19 v.15) -1 became mother of Moabites
• 2 sons (Gen 19v.12) ie plural so at least 2

That is what God did in that particular situation, but where does it say that this is why he is now delaying his judgment on the earth?

 

[Curtis]

That is what God did in that particular situation, but where does it say that this is why he is now delaying his judgment on the earth?

We also see this in the parable of the Wheat, and tares, were the wheat is referring to the children of the righteous, and the tares as the children of the wicked. both of them grow together, until the Lord sends out his angels to gather his wheat into his barn, and the tares gathered to together to be burned at a later time.

Mat 13:24 He put another parable before them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field,
Mat 13:25 but while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat and went away.
Mat 13:26 So when the plants came up and bore grain, then the weeds appeared also.
Mat 13:27 And the servants of the master of the house came and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have weeds?’
Mat 13:28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ So the servants said to him, ‘Then do you want us to go and gather them?’
Mat 13:29 But he said, ‘No, lest in gathering the weeds you root up the wheat along with them.
Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, “Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.”’ (ESV)

Mat 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

What do you suppose would be the meaning of "gather the wheat into my barn" ? What would be the meaning, "Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned"

Gathering the wheat and putting it into God's barn would refer to the catching away of the Church, and then the tares are gathered together to be burned at a latter time. (at the end of the world)

 

[Curtis]

That is what God did in that particular situation, but where does it say that this is why he is now delaying his judgment on the earth?

The Lord will not bring his judgement upon this earth until the righteous have gone. God's mercy on the earth is now as you have already mentioned because he is not willing that any should perish. That can not happen unless there is someone to proclaim the Gospel to. Once the Church is gone, judgement will come.

 

[Curtis]

That is what God did in that particular situation, but where does it say that this is why he is now delaying his judgment on the earth?

How many "righteous" were destroyed in Noah's flood? None!! As Jesus predicted the same thing to happen in the coming of the Son of man...

Luke 17:26 Just as it was in the days of Noah, so will it be in the days of the Son of Man.

The Church, and God desire that no man should perish are both connected together as the reason why this earth is stayed from God's judgement today.

 

[Lanolin]

Curtis thats true believers are going to resurrected (some call it rapture, but in the bible God doesnt call it that) but we also DO go through tribulations, none of us are immune to trials and tribulations..Jesus went through trial and we Actually do suffer too. Maybe our suffering is not comparable to what Jesus went through but many of us have a cross to bear..thats what makes us christians..we also have the victory, and no we arent going to perish as Jesus has saved us. He loves his church and gave himself up for it.

It is appointed for man to die once and the judgement. For those of us believe our judgment (and reward) is going to be good cos we are on Gods side!! I know different christian have different views about the end of time some think it happens all at once while others see it as an individual thing.

But I dont think you can say no christian ever goes through tribulation, and there really is no distinction between tribulation and 'great tribulation' this is where our faith is refined and strengthened. Even Peter tells us dont think strange why this fiery trial, and look at 1 Peter 4:17 the church isnt immune from judgement either...

 

[Lanolin]

We also see this in the parable of the Wheat, and tares, were the wheat is referring to the children of the righteous, and the tares as the children of the wicked. both of them grow together, until the Lord sends out his angels to gather his wheat into his barn, and the tares gathered to together to be burned at a later time.

Mat 13:24 He put another parable before them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field,
Mat 13:25 but while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat and went away.
Mat 13:26 So when the plants came up and bore grain, then the weeds appeared also.
Mat 13:27 And the servants of the master of the house came and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have weeds?’
Mat 13:28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ So the servants said to him, ‘Then do you want us to go and gather them?’
Mat 13:29 But he said, ‘No, lest in gathering the weeds you root up the wheat along with them.
Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, “Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.”’ (ESV)

Mat 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

What do you suppose would be the meaning of "gather the wheat into my barn" ? What would be the meaning, "Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned"

Gathering the wheat and putting it into God's barn would refer to the catching away of the Church, and then the tares are gathered together to be burned at a latter time. (at the end of the world)

Actually you contradicted yourself because the bible says the weeds are gathered FIRST and then the wheat is gathered into the barn, why did you reverse it? Do you actually do any gardening? Nobody harvests and then weeds. We weed first and then we harvest.