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Yeshua: Name Above All Names!

Member
Yeshua: Name Above All Names! ~ I know those are fighting words for some people (either for or against), but I am hoping for a serious discussion on the topic. I am posting this in the Bible Study Hall because I am studying it, and seeking prospective. I am not inviting argument or dogma.

Before I continue, it may be helpful to understand a little about where I am coming from.

I am not a "Sacred Names" person. In fact, I only recently began to understand what that actually means.

I have been a foreign missionary for 40 years. I have spread the gospel in 52 countries, and have spent the last 25 years with the very poor in the Philippines.

I believe in home fellowships (rather than religious institutions) as I believe people grow better and are better ministered to in smaller groups.

I live in a country where:
  • Most people are Roman Catholic.
  • Jesus means a statue nailed to a cross.
  • Jesus is the names of TWO different cult leaders, who both claim to be the incarnate son of god.
  • Jesus is the name of my neighbour, and many men and boys.
  • I can never go to the Mall without seeing an American "missionary" from the "Church of Jesus Christ" (LDS).

The other day, my friend Alan B. got some kind of computer generated form letter asking for a donation. We have all seen these. Throughout the letter it used his name in different ways, like, "Dear Bro. Allen", now notice that Alan is spelled Allen. At one point it talks about the friendship he has with the ministry. He stated that they were obviously not friends, "because friends and family know how to spell my name."

Not long after I married my wife, I mistakenly called her by the name of my late wife, who had died 10 years prior to that. To my surprise she just said, "I know you love me, because I know you loved her too!" Big mistake! I am sure we have all heard jokes or seen TV shows that were based on a slip of the tongue like this.

I have used my middle name most of my life and when someone uses my first name, I know right away they do not know me - they are a stranger.

Now I will confess that when I usually just read the Bible, I use mainly a KJV, but below I have quoted from the Aramaic Bible in Plain English (and others) for emphasis. The three verses I will start with are:

Philippians 2:9-11
Because of this, God has also greatly exalted him and he has given him The Name which is greater than all names, That in The Name of Yeshua, every knee shall bow, which is in Heaven and in The Earth and which is under The Earth, And every tongue shall confess that Yeshua The Messiah is THE LORD JEHOVAH to the glory of God his Father.

Acts 4:10-12
“Let this be known to you and to all the people of Israel, that in the name of Yeshua The Messiah, the Nazarene, him whom you have crucified, whom God has raised from among the dead, behold, in it and by him this man stands before you whole. This is the stone which you builders have rejected, and he is The Head of the corner. And there is no salvation in any other man, for there is no other name under Heaven given to the children of men by which it is necessary to receive life.”

Romans 10:9
And if you will confess with your mouth our Lord Yeshua, and you will believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you shall have life.
For the administration of the end of time, that all things which are in Heaven and in Earth would be made new again by The Messiah.

From a natural prospective, my friend Alan says when people spell his name Allen, it does not mean he does not know they are talking to him, and if they ask something, maybe he will answer or oblige. Likewise, I was saved "in the name of Jesus" and I am sure the Lord understood the thoughts and intentions of my heart. Nonetheless, I am sure if I were to write a letter addressed to Allen and give it to my friend Alan, it would hurt him and he would consider it much less than if I would have properly addressed him Alan.

The point is, if the Lord's name is Yeshua, why would someone, who knows and loved him intimately, call him Jesus? Likewise, is it proper to continue to call Yeshua as Jesus, even if in our ignorance he saves us calling him Jesus? Finally, it is a fairly well established fact that Jesus is derived from a secular Roman Catholic Tradition, so why would we continue to use this today?

For those people who pray "in Jesus name" please do not feel you must defend yourself with unrelated information. Stay on topic! Please read the points in my post carefully, and address them.

If any here believe you must be saved "in Yeshua's name only" - well, that is not what I am talking about. Stay on topic! Please read the points in my post carefully, and address them.

Point One

Yeshua, Joshua, Jesus - Greek and Hebrew

I will used the English Transliteration of the Hebrew - Yeshua - as that is what most believing Jews use. The New Testament word we see as Yeshua or Jesus is a Greek transliteration of the Hebrew word Yeshua. I will not get into a study of slight variations of Yeshua, or variations of the transliteration into English. Just that Yeshua is a much closer transliteration of the Hebrew than Jesus (there is no J sound in either Hebrew or Greek!).

It can be proven that the Greek name in our New Testament is the transliteration of the Hebrew Yeshua. Look at the Greek Old Testament, translated hundreds of years before the New Testament was penned, and you will see the same name, the Hebrew Yeshua transliterated into the Greek.

For those that do not know a Transliteration from a Translation...

A translation find a word in the new language that has the same meaning. For example, the Tagalog "itlog" and the English "egg".

A transliteration seeks to write the same sounds in a different set of writing symbols (try writing your name in Chinese or Japanese for example). Our example, Yeshua is the English way of writing an Old Testament Hebrew name! The writers of the New Testament did this, they wrote Yeshua, the sound, into Greek letters, as close as possible. It is not always exact, so it is important to always start with the original name.

It is a (so far) undisputed fact that no believer or church father prior to the fourth century referred to the Son of God's name as anything other than Yeshua or a transliteration of Yeshua. Even in non-Greek text (other languages) they would start with the Hebrew Yeshua, and transliterate it into their language.

Point Two

The Understanding of Joseph and Mary

We know that Mary was from a priestly Hebrew family (Elizabeth was the her relative and married to a high priest!). Joseph was at least a devote Hebrew. Yeshua/Jesus was able to read and speak Hebrew, according to what is recorded in the Scriptures, because he was Hebrew!

For behold, you shall conceive and you shall give birth to a son, and you shall call his name Yeshua.
Luke 1:31

“And she shall bring forth a Son, and she shall call his name Yeshua, for he shall save his people from their sins.”
Matthew 1:21

Yeshua has the meaning the Angel said we should call him, saviour. Jesus has no meaning at all in any language. The angel of God said we shall call his name Yeshua. God commanded it in the original Scriptures. Because Yeshua has the meaning of saviour.

The angel of God did not say we should call him Jesus, which has no meaning at all in any language.

It is illogical to think anything but that the Angel was speaking to both Joseph and Mary in Hebrew. Our Greek New Testament clearly records for us the name Yeshua, Hebrew, written in Greek letters.

Point Three

The Roman Catholic Tradition

In the fourth century, the Roman Emperor realized that, by fighting the followers of Yeshua, he was losing. If you can't beat them, join them! He made "Christianity" the State Church, declared that all Roman Citizens were "Christians", started building big and expensive buildings, and appointed scholars as priests within his church. The "Holy Roman Catholic Church" was born and staffed with people loyal to Rome. He also decreed the scriptures should be translated in to Latin so that everyone could read them... So the scholars whom he appointed as priest, set out to do this translation. Now notice that these scholars were political appointees. They were not Hebrews who understood that Yeshua the Hebrew name of the Hebrew Son of God, should be transliterate into Latin, like it had been done in the three centuries before than.

Instead, they took the Greek Transliteration of Yeshua, and transliterated that into Latin. That set up a Roman Catholic Tradition that continues and exist until today. The Hebrew was transliterated into Greek, the Greek into Latin, the Latin into older English, then into Germane English (where the J sounds like Y as in German), and finally the J in English pronunciation. It was all based on the false traditions of the Roman Catholic Church (secular) Scholars appointed by the Roman Emperor.

This Roman Catholic Tradition Continues today every time anyone says the word Jesus instead of the name Yeshua. The early church fathers (true believers) ALL transliterated the name Yeshua into whatever local language they were writing.

The fact that we have beautiful songs about "Jesus", or that Jesus was printed in some English Bibles as far back as 1729 (in Daniel Case's secretly published New Testament) is totally beyond the point. Why would a current tradition justify the tradition of the Roman Catholic Church in transliterating a transliteration instead of just transliteration the Hebrew Yeshua like ALL early believers did?

Point Four

The Name Is Important

Besides the three verses I opened with above, there are other verses that show the importance of the name.

I have called you by name, you are mine.
Isaiah 43:1

The Lord called me from the womb, from the body of my mother he named my name.
Isaiah 49:1-2

If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Psalm 139:1-24

The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.
John 10:3

I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels.
Revelation 3:5

...and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life.
Philippians 4:3

Knowing a person's name shows relationship. If you met my friend Alan, a beloved brother in the Lord, you may go home and write in your diary that you met a wonderful man named "Allen" today. However, if you got to know Alan once or twice a week for the next year, you would at some point start writing "Alan" and you did something. You would know his name because you had a relationship with him.

Right now you could sit down with paper and pen and start writing a list of all the people who are important to your personal life. Why? Because the more you know them, the more you know their name. But most of those people were once strangers. Even the guy who marries the girl next door was once a stranger to her as a baby.

We need to know the name of the Lord also. Set it in your mind, what is the NAME of the LORD. Not what does God understand, but what is the NAME God said we should call the Lord?

For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Romans 10:13

And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
Acts 4:12

The scripture excludes all others, "NO other name!" The Scripture alone make it clear how important is the name of Yeshua that every disciple used for 300 years, in any language!

“Because he holds fast to me in love, I will deliver him; I will protect him, because he knows my name."
Psalm 91:14

Matthew 7:21-24
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?'
Then I will tell them plainly, 'I NEVER KNEW YOU. Away from me, you evildoers!'
Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man...

When you know someone closely, you both know and use their Name! What is the name of the Lord, for the scriptures are clear that names matter!

Conclusion

According to the Scriptures

At this point I have no other conclusion than to accept what the early believers (and ALL Disciples) did in all languages. They called the Son of God Yeshua, transliterated into their language, because that is his name and they loved him so much.

What a privilege to speak the name of our risen Lord in the Language of his Birth, transliterated into our language, just as the Apostles and the early disciples did.

Note: If you were newly saved or became Born Again in Jesus name, remember that God looks on the thoughts and intentions of the Heart. However, we also have to consider what we are teaching to others in our own lives and actions. Are we teaching them to follow the man made, unbelieving traditions of the Roman Catholic Church, or are we teaching them to follow the example laid down in the Scriptures and followed by all believers for 3 centuries?
 
Member
[h=2]What does the Greek actually say?[/h]The Greek word for Jesus is Iησοῦς. It is pronounced as "eeaysoos." When "eeaysoos" was transliterated into the English long ago it became Jesus, the term we use in English today.
Some say that if we don't pronounce Jesus' name properly (either as Yeshua and or Eeaysoos) then we are in sin and serving a false god, but that accusation cannot be made from scripture. It is not the pronounciation of a word that makes us Christian or not. It is receving the messiah, God in flesh, by faith that makes us a Christian. Likewise, must we say "theos" when saying "God" since that is how the word is pronounced in Greek? Or what about when we call Jesus the "Savior" as in Phil. 3:20, must we pronounce the word as it is in Greek (sotare) or is it okay to use the English word "savior?"
The entire New Testament was written in Greek and the word Jesus is the word that is used. It is not the Hebrew יֵשׁוּעַ which is Yeshua. So, it is simple. Jesus is properly called Jesus.


"And she will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for it is He who will save His people from their sins," (Matt. 1:21).
"let it be known to all of you, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead—by this name this man stands here before you in good health. 11 “He is the stone which was rejected by you, the builders, but which became the very corner stone. 12 “And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved," (Acts 4:10-12).
 
Member
What does the Greek actually say?

The Greek word for Jesus is Iησοῦς. It is pronounced as "eeaysoos."

When "eeaysoos" was transliterated into the English
long ago it became Jesus, the term we use in English today.

Some say that if we don't pronounce Jesus' name properly (either as Yeshua and or Eeaysoos)
then we are in sin and serving a false god, but that accusation cannot be made from scripture.
It is not the pronunciation of a word that makes us Christian or not.

It is receiving the messiah, God in flesh, by faith that makes us a Christian.
Likewise, must we say "theos" when saying "God" since that is how the word is pronounced in Greek?
Or what about when we call Jesus the "Savior" as in Phil. 3:20, must we pronounce the word
as it is in Greek (sotare) or is it okay to use the English word "savior?"

The entire New Testament was written in Greek and the word Jesus is the word that is used.
It is not the Hebrew יֵשׁוּעַ which is Yeshua. So, it is simple. Jesus is properly called Jesus.

"And she will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for it is He who will save His people from their sins," (Matt. 1:21).
"let it be known to all of you, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead—by this name this man stands here before you in good health. 11 “He is the stone which was rejected by you, the builders, but which became the very corner stone. 12 “And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved," (Acts 4:10-12).

Do not be concerned God knows exactly who you mean
when you call on His name.

My second name is difficult to pronounce and it has never
been of the slightest concern to me when people miss
pronounce it.

Eeaysoos died to give me life, amen.
 
Member
Interesting post, I also recently found out that the original New Testament was written in Aramaic Hebrew, which was then translated into Greek, which is what most English Bibles are translated from. I do agree with David and yourself that God looks into our heart, He is very aware that English speakers now refer to Yeshua as Jesus. I don't believe that God will decide to ignore the millions and maybe even billions of His followers that refer to Yeshua as Jesus; when we say Jesus I believe God knows we are refering to the name Yeshua. I know some people now who have decided to cut themselves from the name "Christianity" because of some of the things that some people do in the name of "Christianity" and one of their "platforms" is saying "Jesus" is not Yeshua and one of these people recently called me ignorant because I used the name Jesus, instead of Yeshua. They were still not able to explain in a logical manner why I was ignorant...or whatever. But you seem to have very well elucidated your thoughts, very interesting post.
 
Member
In English I am Larry, in Spanish I am Lorenzo and yet I still know that as my Name. Studying the Languages (Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, etc) are great but do not get to the point of missing the meaning of those Words. If we call Him Jesus, Yahsua (Yehshua?) , or etc- He still knows who we are talking to.

Much love in Christ (or is it Christos:shock: ?) ,
your brother Larry.
 
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QFormat="true" Name="Intense Emphasis"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="31" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Subtle Reference"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="32" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Intense Reference"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="33" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Book Title"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="37" Name="Bibliography"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" QFormat="true" Name="TOC Heading"/> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0in; mso-para-margin-right:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0in; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} </style> <![endif]--> If the original New Testament manuscripts were all written in Hebrew or Aramaic, and Jesus’ name always as Yeshua, then that means God has allowed every single copy of the original manuscripts to be destroyed, and only corrupt ones to remain that are passed down to us today. This undermines the sovereignty of God, and undermines the very thing that we hold in our hands as the truth.

Not only that, then would the letters written to churches in Greece, Cornith, Philippi, and Thessalonica have been written in a language they would not have understood? Also, Colossians, Ephesians, Galatians, and the book of Revelation were also sent to the Greek speaking in Asia Minor. Would the authors of these books actually have written these letters that were intended to be read by those who they sent them to in a language that they could not read?

This whole speculation was started in the 1930’s and has actually been rejected by most serious scholars. Especially after the discovery of the Greek papyri from the NT period.

As Dr. Henry Thiessen explained in Introduction to the New Testament: “The discovery of the papyri has done much to undermine this theory. It has shown that practically every supposed mistranslation in the Gospels appears a regular idiom in the Greek papyri of the period; and the latter certainly are not translations from the Aramaic” (p. 35).

The Arimaic originals are non existent. And there are zero early writings that mention them ever being in existence.

Now, we can start thinking that we need to use another name in the English speaking countries. Names like Yeshua in subsititue for Jesus, but if there is no deep rooted culture instilled in the person who uses that name for the Word of God made flesh, then it is another Jesus that could be substituted as well.

It is with much caution you should proceed down the path that leads into rejecting the NT. If the original physical manuscripts that we have cannot be trusted then we are all whistling in the wind without a solid foundation of truth.


And every tongue shall confess that Yeshua The Messiah is THE LORD JEHOVAH to the glory of God his Father.

Might as well say that Yeshua the Messiah is the lord Jehovah to the glory of himself. That is not what the scriptures say.

Php 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Who has exalted Jesus? God His Father
Who has given Him a name above all names? God the Father
Who is the Lord that every knee shall bow to? Jesus Christ
For Who's glory? God the Father
 
Loyal
I am always wary of "Jesus only" doctrine.
Does Jesus matter? Of course.
Who is our salvation in? Acts 4:12 says Jesus, Who was the sacrifice for our sins? Jesus. Who is the only way to Heaven? Jesus
But we can't even accept Jesus, unless the Father wills it (John 6:65)

But what we saved for? To get to Jesus? Or to get to the Father?

After Jesus was resurrected he was given all power and authority (temporarily)
Matt 28:18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
Rev 2:27 AND HE SHALL RULE THEM WITH A ROD OF IRON, AS THE VESSELS OF THE POTTER ARE BROKEN TO PIECES, as I also have received authority from My Father;

Jesus reigns now, and will reign over the Earth and New Jerusalem, But eventually he gives this back to the father.
1Cor 15:24 then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.
Who's kingdom will this eventually belong to?
Matt 26:29 "But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father's kingdom."

The main reason Jesus came, was to enable us to get to the father.
John 14:6 Jesus *said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

Are we told anywhere in the Bible to pray to Jesus? Who did Jesus tell us to pray to in Matt 6:9?
(Matt 6:8; Matt 7:11; Matt 18:19; Luke 11:13; John 15:16; etc...)
Notice John 16:23 and John 16:26 say that when we ask for things from the father, we should ask in Jesus' name.
Having said that, our sin keeps us from God. So we have a mediator to pray through.
(1Tim 2:5; Heb 8:6; Heb 9:15) So in that sense, we pray "through" Jesus to the Father.

This is where intercessory prayer is often confused.
My father lives far away, so far that I can't see him or even yell loud enough for him to hear me. So I have to use a telephone to talk to him.
I may want to ask him to help me, or ask him to help another person. Perhaps that person doesn't even know my father. Oh maybe he I knows I have a father,
but he has never met him. Jesus is the telephone. He is the mediator between God and man, there is no other telephone. Not Mary, not the angels, not dead saints, not dead relatives.. no one except Jesus. Keep in mind, you can't even talk to him without a telephone (Jesus). But who is he a mediator for? Himself?
Or the Father? (Gal 3:19-20) If you think about it, can a person really mediate for them-self?

Does it really matter what language we say Yeshua or Jesus in? God speaks to people in different languages. (Acts 2:7-11)
Indeed he created all of the different languages. (Gen 11:9)
If the Bible was only in one language, most of us couldn't understand it. I believe God created different tongues or languages for his glory and purpose.
He will be worshiped in different tongues (Rev 5:9) God wants the Gospel to be preached to every tongue and nation (Rev 14:6)

So I say praise Jesus, but praise the Father also.
 
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Member
Does it really matter what language we say Yeshua or Jesus in? God speaks to people in different languages. (Acts 2:7-11)
Indeed he created all of the different languages. (Gen 11:9)
If the Bible was only in one language, most of us couldn't understand it. I believe God created different tongues or languages for his glory and purpose.
He will be worshiped in different tongues (Rev 5:9) God wants the Gospel to be preached to every tongue and nation (Rev 14:6)

So I say praise Jesus, but praise the Father also.

Have been looking at those verses as well. It seems that any name can be used with a flip of the mouth like an incantation. The most important thing is the substance and understanding
of who is behind that name. Who Jesus is, and what He did. Who God is, and what He did. That is the foundation of the name used in any language. The further away the belief and doctrine is
from the foundational truths of the Bible, then it won't matter what name is used. The occult and New Agers use the name of Jesus, but it is another Jesus. Not the one of the Bible.
 
Member
Well, I did expect people with emotional replies, and man made arguments (doctrines of men?), what actually surprise me was that no one actually dealt with the topic, nor addressed the points. It makes me sad that I received a lot of well prepared religious replies, based on the thinking of men, but no one considered the topic of what name we should use for the saviour in an intimate personal relationship. Here are a few comments about the above to show what I mean.

@David777

The scriptures themselves point to the importance of the NAME of the saviour. A reference to a word like "Saviour" (Greek sotare) or "God" (theos) is a nonsense or emotional attempt to win an argument because it has nothing at all to do with the importance of the Name of God's son. It is off topic to if it is best practice for us to use the name God said we should call him.

David, you did recognize that the Hebrew יֵשׁוּעַ is Yeshua, but you made no mention of the fact that Iησοῦς (eeaysoos) is the established transliteration of the Hebrew יֵשׁוּעַ (Yeshua).

Iησοῦς was the well established transliteration of Yeshua, hundreds of years before Christ walked the earth. There is plenty of evidence that Jews from 100BC to 300AD read the Greek transliteration of Iησοῦς and spoke the name Yeshua, as with most of the other Hebrew names written in Greek letters. The disciples, being Jews of that time would have written Iησοῦς but use the name Yeshua. Why would any Hebrew man call Yeshua "Eeaysoos"?

Which, by the way, Eeaysoos is not actually written in the way we would commonly speak it, but it is written in a form and method that experts could more closely reproduce the sound. For example, most English speaking people would see Eeaysoos and try to pronounce it starting with a long "E" when in fact the "ee" was representative more closely to the English "Y" than the English long "E". Consider that eeaysoos would more likely sound closer to Yaysoos. Ending a male name with an "a" sound in Greek is plainly wrong, the name must end in os to make sense, so if you again substitute the "os" for the "a" (Hebrew sound of "ah") you should effectively pronounce the eeaysoos as Yea-so-ah! Which is obviously much closer to Yeshua that to Jesus.

The point was that ALL the early disciples and church fathers started with the Hebrew Yeshua (no doubt that was the name Joseph and Mary gave the Lord as God had commanded through his angel) and they transliterate Yeshua into whatever language they were writing in (including Greek). Jesus comes from a transliteration of a transliteration of a transliteration started by priests in the Roman Catholic Church who were declared to be Christians by the Roman Emperor and appointed priest as political appointees. I was addressing the 300 years prior to those political appointments where EVERYONE transliterate straight from Yeshua to any other language - as set by the example of the Apostles.

But the question still remains, if you know the Lord on a very intimate basis, why would you want to call him anything but his real name?

@JehovahDaughter

Although there is some historical evidence that there may have been a Hebrew Gospel of Matthew, it was not established if Matthew's gospel was written in Hebrew and translated to Greek, or the other way around. What we do know it that there is almost no evidence of a Hebrew Gospel and plenty of evidence for the Greek. Actually, again, a Hebrew Gospel would have little logic to it. The Greek Jews would be able to read and understand the Greek writing as well as Hebrew. The Old Testament had been translated to Greek hundreds of years before and was well received and used. Greek was the lingua franka of the day - the common language that most or all business was transacted in. The spread of the Gospel depended on it being written in Greek, nonetheless, the Jews of the day would have pronounced Iησοῦς (Yaysoos) as the Hebrew Yeshua and this is what the early believers did, in ALL languages, until the fourth century Roman politically appointed clergy.

@Boanerges

Hi Larry! As having done missionary work to spread the gospel in 52 countries, and having spent time in Spain, I can tell you as a FACT that people would call you Larry and not Lorenzo (the Spanish version). Anywhere in the world I have travelled, a person's name is much more personal than the common representation of the name. People in Spain would call you Larry (as they did a fellow missionary who was with me). They took into consideration that Larry (my friend) was from the USA. My late wife's name was Maria, when she immigrated to the USA and even became a US citizen, no one ever told her (or even suggested) that her name should be changed to Mary. A person's name is much more personal than the place they live. Mary, being a devote Hebrew, would have undoubtedly call her son a Hebrew name, Yeshua, especially because an angel of God told her to! If today, Yeshua were to immigrate to the USA his name would still be Yeshua, although the Hebrew יֵשׁוּעַ would be written in English letters as Yeshua. No doubt that friends and family would continue to call him Yeshua. The point of this discussion is about what a close personal friend, with a close relationship to the Son of God, should call Yeshua day in and day out... Just like you, my friend Larry!

@Michelle71

Your reply is obviously to a comment JehovahDaughter made about her reading something about a Hebrew gospel. Your reply adds nothing but confusion to the original topic and the four points made there. On other boards this would be called hijacking a topic. I would really like to see anyone address any of the original points... Unfortunately, instead of addressing the point about what name we should be using, you took exception to a quote from an available translation that uses Messiah (a perfectly good English word meaning the anointed and less confusing to non Bible scholars than the term "Christ" that many people assume is a name, rather than a title.).

@B-A-C

The greater part of your post has nothing to do with the topic of what name we should use in our intimate relationship with Yeshua. It is about an off topic rant about your disagreement with some "Jesus only" doctrine, that is not at all related to the four original points in any way I can see.

Then you basically state your opinion that it really doesn't matter what we call the Son of God making null and void all the scriptures of the original topic. It cannot be both ways. And if you are correct that it makes no difference, then you should have no objections at all about calling him by his original name. Yeshua is found in many English bibles today and because that is his original name, wouldn't someone who make the claim to know him and to be close to him also want to use his original name?

@All

Is it not more logical to use his original name, rather than using a name either created by mistake or being contrived by political "priest" of the Roman Empire rather than to follow what real disciples did, and gave their lives for, for 300 years before than?

The Daniel Case New Testament is often called into question because of his association with Free Masons and because it departs drastically with many of the doctrines of the 1611 King James Bible. Yet when Daniel Case secretly publish and distributed this "anonymous" translation, being too ashamed to admit it, it became, in fact, the first Bible on the Planet to use Jesus in the form we currently see in some English Bibles today.

It is undisputed fact that the reason we have any bible today that says Jesus in it is because a group of politically appointed Roman men, translating the Latin bible for and under the control of the Roman Government, introduced the Roman Catholic Church doctrine of transliterating transliterations (rather than transliterating the original Yeshua) and they did that in the 4th century. This set up a course of events that let to a Free Mason writing a secret and controversial New Testament and using the name Jesus in it for the first time in the form we have it in 1729 - AFTER all the original translators of the original King James Version were dead!

No one addressed any of these historical facts. No one addressed the tons of testimonies from people who began addressing him as Yeshua and found they had a deeper spiritual relationship using the name the Apostles used. The name the scriptures have much to say about. If using Yeshua or Jesus really does not matter, I wonder if the people answering this post have ever tried to use the name Yeshua for even six months. You will find that Satan brings much opposition to you for using a name "that doesn't really matter!"

If it truly doesn't matter, then why is it the people who use Yeshua often, see the power in the name of the Lord, and stop using Jesus... Why is it only people who use Jesus that say it really doesn't matter? Perhaps they are saying using Jesus doesn't matter (there is little to no power there). Perhaps that is the point that matters and why the people who use Yeshua and see the power of the name think it does matter?

As an example, I will make an analogy to an expression I hear kids say, "Throw your hands in the air like you do not care!" But adults say, if you really do not care, then why would anyone throw their hands in the air? It is not logical for someone that does not really care. Is this the same as the Yeshua/Jesus people. To them it does not matter?

If the people who say Jesus really believe it does not matter, then they should have no objection to using the original name of Yeshua! Because it does not matter! (To them) Why not take the challenge and give it a try for six months. Then you will see how much Satan will oppose the use of the original name of the Son of God, that the Angel of God came to Mary and Joseph with such an important message to call him Yeshua.

Why send an angel if it really didn't matter? Surely God saw the future.

I would go as far as to challenge you, or dare you, if you believe that Jesus is the same as Yeshua, just use Yeshua everyday and for everything for the next six months. Then you will see how much the prince of the power of the air (the devil) opposes the use of the name that God said to Mary and Joseph that he should be called, Yeshua. Try it!

Of course most people who use the name Jesus and think it does not matter, WANT to do that and do not really care about all the scriptures that talk about the importance of the Name! That is a choice they make to ignore this without even making an attempt to understand it. A choice, not a Bible Study.

@Anyone

I am still interested in discussing any of the above four points that no one has actually read or discussed. Would anyone care to look at them and reason with me?

Is there anyone on this site who would like to look at these points logically, reasonable and scripturally?
 
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Loyal
It's hard to take this seriously. First of all, it wasn't Yeshua. It was Immanuel. From Matt 1:23

G1694
Ἐμμανουήλ
Emmanouēl
em-man-oo-ale'
Of Hebrew origin [H6005]; God with us; Emmanuel, a name of Christ: - Emmanuel.

From Isa 7:14
H6005
עמּנוּאל
‛immânû'êl
im-maw-noo-ale'
From H5973 and H410 with suffix pronoun inserted; with us (is) God; Immanuel, a name of Isaiah’s son: - Immanuel.

My point was.. my name is Ray, Raymond, Ramon, Ramundo, Reim, depending on what language you are speaking. It's all me.
Joshua, Yeshua, Hehsoos, Jesus, is all the same person.

King James, New Living Trans, New American Stand, none of these Bible have the word Yeshua in them anywhere, yet you are accusing us of using the wrong name?
All of these Bible says Jesus or Emmanuel. You can blame it on the language if you like, but that would be incorrect. Even in the original Greek and Hebrew it doesn't say that.

From Matt 1:21
G2424
Ἰησοῦς
Iēsous
ee-ay-sooce'
Of Hebrew origin [H3091]; Jesus (that is, Jehoshua), the name of our Lord and two (three) other Israelites: - Jesus.

I have seen the 16th century Bible in the Smithsonian, I have seen the dead sea scrolls. Whoever told you this name started with the Freemasons in the 14th century
is either grossly mistaken, or an outright liar. There are many many Bibles available from before that time. I personally have a Bible printed before 1729. Your article
is based on incorrect here-say so it is difficult to respond to.
 
Member
Oikos if you personally feel to say 'Yeshua' is better then to say 'Jesus' you go ahead.

But you will never convince me that Jesus is not Jesus O Hallelujah!

Please consider that you are sowing confusion and doubt amongst some here... by trying to say you should not say Jesus but something else would be much better, and that we need to pronounce His Name in a certain way that is other then Jesus so that He is more pleased in us. What a nonsense!

I got saved whilst crying out to JESUS and not some Hebrew Yeshua name that is foreign to my own native tongue.

Jesus is Lord, i believe everyone knows The Name JESUS as the Son of God but not everyone knows the name Yashua or Yeshua or Yeshuaw or Yashuwah or or...

Please stop spreading this confusion around and keep it for yourself, if people want to say Jesus then that is perfectly fine.
 
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Loyal
No Yeshua in my Bible

It's hard to take this seriously. First of all, it wasn't Yeshua. It was Immanuel. From Matt 1:23

G1694
Ἐμμανουήλ
Emmanouēl
em-man-oo-ale'
Of Hebrew origin [H6005]; God with us; Emmanuel, a name of Christ: - Emmanuel.

From Isa 7:14
H6005
עמּנוּאל
‛immânû'êl
im-maw-noo-ale'
From H5973 and H410 with suffix pronoun inserted; with us (is) God; Immanuel, a name of Isaiah’s son: - Immanuel.

My point was.. my name is Ray, Raymond, Ramon, Ramundo, Reim, depending on what language you are speaking. It's all me.
Joshua, Yeshua, Hehsoos, Jesus, is all the same person.

King James, New Living Trans, New American Stand, none of these Bible have the word Yeshua in them anywhere, yet you are accusing us of using the wrong name?
All of these Bible says Jesus or Emmanuel. You can blame it on the language if you like, but that would be incorrect. Even in the original Greek and Hebrew it doesn't say that.

From Matt 1:21
G2424
Ἰησοῦς
Iēsous
ee-ay-sooce'
Of Hebrew origin [H3091]; Jesus (that is, Jehoshua), the name of our Lord and two (three) other Israelites: - Jesus.

I have seen the 16th century Bible in the Smithsonian, I have seen the dead sea scrolls. Whoever told you this name started with the Freemasons in the 14th century
is either grossly mistaken, or an outright liar. There are many many Bibles available from before that time. I personally have a Bible printed before 1729. Your article
is based on incorrect here-say so it is difficult to respond to.

As far as "ranting" about Jesus only doctrine, kind in mind you named this thread, "name above all names". So it seems right on subject from my perspective.
 
Member
@Michelle71

Your reply is obviously to a comment JehovahDaughter made about her reading something about a Hebrew gospel. Your reply adds nothing but confusion to the original topic and the four points made there. On other boards this would be called hijacking a topic. I would really like to see anyone address any of the original points... Unfortunately, instead of addressing the point about what name we should be using, you took exception to a quote from an available translation that uses Messiah (a perfectly good English word meaning the anointed and less confusing to non Bible scholars than the term "Christ" that many people assume is a name, rather than a title.).

If the doctrine of using Yeshua as the name of Jesus is causing the fruit of changing the original words to state Jesus is Jehovah, then it needs to be addressed. I used the quote you yourself placed on the board, and pointed out the obvious errors.

There is no way that I will go down this path of calling Jesus Yeshua. There are those who have been raised in the Jewish faith that trust in Jesus as their messiah who do use the name. Many of those have solid biblical foundations. I see a lot of false
doctrines coming from those who speak English who have switched to this name though. Mainly going the route of the oneness doctrines, and undermining the validity of the NT texts.
 
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Hey Oikos, are you sure that the Son of God's name was transliterated as Yeshua? Maybe consider Yehowshuwa as the correct transliteration.
 
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What is the true name of the messiah?

Check these names;

Isaiah 9:6

For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will rest on His shoulders;

And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor,
Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.


Take your pick, they are all the names of our
glorious messiah Jesus.

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.
 
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While I was out street preaching, I spoke to a group of Hispanic men about Jesucristo. Anyone in a culture even remotely Hispanic knows the difference between Jesus and Jesucristo, so that seems like a red herring from the get-go.

There's a basic language lesson I give whenever I encounter the issue of biblical names. In Old English, the hard J sound did not exist. It was a soft Y sound, and is still used in words like "fjord." The letter Y was invented because the soft J took on the hard J that we know today. In this light, arguments between Jesus (Gee-suss) and Jesus (Ya-soos) are silly: it's simply that the English language changed. Also, whether you say Jehovah or Yahweh, in the old tongue, Jehovah would've been pronounced with a soft J ("Ya") and a soft V ("We"). It is an easy progression to go from I to J from Latin to English, which is the reason the lower case i and j are dotted!
Whether you say Yeshua, Iesou, Iesus, or Jesus, you are saying the same thing. My given name is Hebrew in origin and very difficult for Spanish-speakers to pronounce; I often get a nickname from Hispanic friends because they feel awkward mispronouncing my full name. And I'm not offended. I happen to know that different languages have different letters, and not all syllables exist in each language. Many people stumble over the phlegmatic "ch" in Middle Eastern languages, and many Middle Easterners have difficulty pronouncing the P sound and so usually replace it with the B sound (this means they would recite "Peter Piper" as "Beter Biber bicked a beck of bickled bebbers"). Therefore, even if you do transliterate/translate the name correctly, I'd bet dollars to donuts that you're probably not pronouncing it correctly.


I thank you for your zeal, Oikos. I am curious, though, about what you make of this verse:
Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
 
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@Oikos I agree completely with your reasoning for using Yeshua. Each point is clearly supported. I also agree, contrary to what many others have said, it is important that we use the correct name even if he knows our heart. Scripture is very clear on the importance of names.
 
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