'Worse than an infidel'

[Fragrant Grace]

But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.
1 Timothy 5:8

These questions were raised in a conversation that I was listening to recently

Does this verse solely refer to the 'man of the Christian household' ?
Should the man be the main or only source of income, especially if there are young children at home?
Does it refer to those perhaps claiming benefits when they could work ?

Thank you in anticipation of any scriptural based responses

 

[DHC]

But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.
1 Timothy 5:8

These questions were raised in a conversation that I was listening to recently

Does this verse solely refer to the 'man of the Christian household' ?
Should the man be the main or only source of income, especially if there are young children at home?
Does it refer to those perhaps claiming benefits when they could work ?

Thank you in anticipation of any scriptural based responses

1 Timothy 5
1 Do not sharply rebuke an older man, but rather appeal to him as a father, to the younger men as brothers,
2 the older women as mothers, and the younger women as sisters, in all purity.
3 Honor widows who are widows indeed;
4 but if any widow has children or grandchildren, they must first learn to practice piety in regard to their own family and to make some return to their parents; for this is acceptable in the sight of God.
5 Now she who is a widow indeed and who has been left alone, has fixed her hope on God and continues in entreaties and prayers night and day.
6 But she who gives herself to wanton pleasure is dead even while she lives.
7 Prescribe these things as well, so that they may be above reproach.
8 But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
9 A widow is to be put on the list only if she is not less than sixty years old, having been the wife of one man,
10 having a reputation for good works; and if she has brought up children, if she has shown hospitality to strangers, if she has washed the saints’ feet, if she has assisted those in distress, and if she has devoted herself to every good work.
11 But refuse to put younger widows on the list, for when they feel sensual desires in disregard of Christ, they want to get married,
12 thus incurring condemnation, because they have set aside their previous pledge.
13 At the same time they also learn to be idle, as they go around from house to house; and not merely idle, but also gossips and busybodies, talking about things not proper to mention.
14 Therefore, I want younger widows to get married, bear children, keep house, and give the enemy no occasion for reproach;
15 for some have already turned aside to follow Satan.
16 If any woman who is a believer has dependent widows, she must assist them and the church must not be burdened, so that it may assist those who are widows indeed.

What is the topic that is being discussed?

 

[Fragrant Grace]

But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.
1 Timothy 5:8

1 Timothy 5
What is the topic that is being discussed?

Thank you @DHC for your reply yes I have been reading this chapter

Does the verse go further than widows?

And what do the scriptures say about a Christian man providing for his household?

The conversation I was listening to was really debating whether a Christian man should work to provide for his family rather than claim benefits
And 1 Timothy 5:8 was the verse quoted as an example
With the counter argument being that 'working' may not be relying on the Lord to provide all our needs

 

[james1523]

Principle of provision I think it applies to any in the household: 1 Tim 5:8.
Widows over the age of 60 and who were useful went on a list of widows and was a position in the church, the church took care of the widows and the widows served the church.
Younger widows were expected to re-marry so as to be cared for by the husband (vs 14) or be cared for by any children or family they had (vs 4, 16).

 

[spirit1st]

GOD looks at the man in the flesh too be the leader of His home. He made man responsible for there household. Just as He is responsible for us after we become part of His household and family.
He being our Father also.

God told me if a man would do three things, He would take care of everything else in that Man life.
1- take family to church
2-Read the bible with family
3-Get on your knees and pray with family.

Now a days , Some women can make more than men . I see nothing wrong with the man staying at home and taking care of His family there. But i also know if a man not doing some work ? He will not be happy .

But the work could be on His own home and with His own family. But i also know ,some men are just lazy and refuse to work too.

I think that scripture does not only mean our own house but also our nation first before other nations. which i think I government has not understood?

We better ASK GOD about staying home while our wives work? We better make sure that in GOD prefect will?

 

[Fragrant Grace]

Principle of provision I think it applies to any in the household: 1 Tim 5:8.
Widows over the age of 60 and who were useful went on a list of widows and was a position in the church, the church took care of the widows and the widows served the church.
Younger widows were expected to re-marry so as to be cared for by the husband (vs 14) or be cared for by any children or family they had (vs 4, 16).

Thank you @james1523 for your reply

Is this provision for the household to be provided solely by the man ......if there are young children for example?
Or can the wife be the main provider?

Does it refer to financial provision for food a home to live in etc?

How would it apply in todays society?

Should Christian's who have a capacity to work rely on the benefit system?

 

[james1523]

Thank you @james1523 for your reply

Is this provision for the household to be provided solely by the man ......if there are young children for example?
Or can the wife be the main provider?

Does it refer to financial provision for food a home to live in etc?

How would it apply in todays society?

Should Christian's who have a capacity to work rely on the benefit system?

I don't know any Scriptures to support my opinion but I don't see an issue with wife or husband working or reliance upon the benefit system. After all the Christian has paid for it through taxes in one way or another. Wait a minute, God just spoke to me now and told me that He has called us to live in freedom and peace Gal 5:13, 1 Corinthians 7:15 and this principle should be applied in deciding who should work in the household.

 

[B-A-C]

We've gotten a little off the subject here, but.. I believe God created us with specific gender roles.
Men and women are wired differently. Men are meant to be the stronger, the provider, the protectors, the moral compasses, the high priest of their families.
Women are more caring, more nurturing, (men can't breastfeed babies). I personally feel this role reversal that has gotten common in todays society
is the force behind women's liberation, and the homosexual movement (there are no men, there are no women, we are all equal, our god is a diverse god).

1 Tim 2:12; But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.
1 Tim 2:13; For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.
1 Tim 2:14; And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
1 Tim 2:15; But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.

1 Cor 11:3; But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.
1 Cor 11:8; For man does not originate from woman, but woman from man;
1 Cor 11:9; for indeed man was not created for the woman's sake, but woman for the man's sake.

Gen 3:16; To the woman He said, "I will greatly multiply Your pain in childbirth, In pain you will bring forth children; Yet your desire will be for your husband, And he will rule over you."

1 Tim 5:8; But if a man does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

As soon as the woman becomes the breadwinner, or becomes more educated than her husband i.e. she has a PhD, he doesn't have a High School Diploma)
(She is the company vice president, he is a janitor) I personally believe these things undermine God's purpose for men and women.

A woman comes up to my wife in church last Sunday.. "that's a nice dress, it looks really good on you".
Now imagine a man coming up to another man, "wow, those jeans look really great on you".
On a dark deserted a alley a man and woman are being stalked by a sinister stranger who advances upon them, pulls out a knife and threatens them...
The woman steps in front of the man, and says "Stand back!! I'll protect you honey".

Call me old fashioned, but God made us differently.

 

[spirit1st]

Personally I believe a man should work and take care of the family and the wife should raise the kids and stay home. But in this world today it gotten where few men can provide all the needs ? And Even some women can get much better jobs and some men cannot even get jobs? Things have gotten really messed up.

Never liked my wife working. Children needs Both there parents. We Do not feel good about ourselves if we do not work.

 

[B-A-C]

But in this world today it gotten where few men can provide all the needs ?

I wonder if that's really true? My wife works also (part time), but our kids are all grown and gone now. So it doesn't matter so much.
Why does it take two incomes these days? Sometimes it is required to make ends meet. There are so many divorces these days women have to support their families some how.
Yet for many of the people I know, they have 4 vehicles, their kids drive a newer car also, they all have the latest smartphones each with unlimited data plans, 4 computers, tablets, ipads, iphones,
cable TV, the internet, a 4 bedroom house, (with a pool) mobile home, a motorcycle, a few off road four wheelers, a boat, a fifth wheel, where does it end?

I am reminded of a certain cell phone company commercial, more is better, bigger is better, faster is better, and we have all bought into it. We need the newest, fastest, best, biggest and we need
three or four of everything. We need to go to Hawaii, we need our kids to go to Europe, we need this, we need that...

Do we really need any of it? There are starving people in this country and all over the world, there are crowded orphanages, there are people who live on the streets (some by choice, but not most)
What do we do with the 2 incomes we have?

Meanwhile our kids are latchkey kids, raised by day-cares, atheist teachers, worldly television, and violent video games. 80% of all families are broken. Father's are gone, mothers are working
and we wonder why our kids have no morals, no discipline and no Christian values. No one saw this coming back everyone was pushing equal rights. The liberals of the time said we were exaggerating
the effects and blowing everything out of proportion. Now forty years later, if you ask me, we should have pushed back much harder and blown it even bigger IN to proportion!!
We have violent gangs, The highest teenage pregnancy of any industrialized nation, the highest drug usage, kids have lost respect for adults and society and we wonder why.

The homosexual/gay agenda is even worse, gender roles are getting lost. Standing up for your rights and religious beliefs seems to be a thing of the past. People don't see how this will affect
the next generation, they think we are exaggerating and blowing things out of proportion again... I wonder what they'll think in 30 or 40 years from now?

 

[spirit1st]

Lots on food stamps and Government aid. Lots of servicemen coming back losing it all. Many homeless in the United States. Lots of homeless here and this is a rich place.
But there is also many old people living on just there S.S. too.

But , I am sure many have much more than they need. and Others have great needs.
I saw on T.V. not long ago. People who live in the mountains .Had homes with card board on the walls trying to keep the cold out . Kids had no shoes in the winter. and they had no food.
They had no way to get to a town where they Might? Get food. We have lots of suffering right here in the United states.

I wondered my self? why we Spend billions and billions over seas when our own household[the United States] has so much suffering here.

We send lots of people and money and aid to many many nations. when our own nation is falling apart .

 

[Fragrant Grace]

Greetings brothers and sisters....I am just revisiting the original post from a few years ago.....in anticipation of some new responses


But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.
1 Timothy 5:8

These questions were raised in a conversation that I was listening to recently

Does this verse solely refer to the 'man of the Christian household' ?
Should the man be the main or only source of income, especially if there are young children at home?
Does it refer to those perhaps claiming benefits when they could work ?

Thank you in anticipation of any scriptural based responses

 

[Dave M]

At one time I struggled very hard to understand this verse as I had a homeless sister at the time I started reading the bible.

And you know what, that verse doesn't put conditions on itself, it says what it says

My sister and I were enemies she had me arrested and thrown in jail for false charges, she called the city on me many times (trying to get business code violations) trying to make life difficult for me, she would call my phone 25 times a day and leave the nasty messages on there, she went all over the internet and left bad reviews on my business, she hated me and I really struggled with wanting to help her. God showed me how to forgive.

just do it is what what I finally told myself... I dont know for sure any answers to your questions but I know for sure when I help someone especially in my my family (whether they deserve it or not) it is pleasing to God and I am being obedient to God. Matter of fact God blessed me so much that it was very rewarding and one of the best learning experiences I ever had in my Life getting my sister off the streets. I saw my prayers answered in a way that blew my mind. This was just about 2 years ago, God provided a town home for her that I own and she lives there rent free. How is that for God looking out. She is on disability so has income for bills and food. We are getting along the better then we have in a decade, and I have inner piece like never before