Women teaching in the Church today?

[Curtis]

Women teaching in the Church today?

Are women allowed to teach in the body of Christ today? This is a major problem in the Church today, only because we do not understand the scriptures, so we have “LOGICALLY ANALYTICALLY” made things up that the Lord never intended, and that by using scriptures to proof it.

The Church's that come “AGAINST” women teachers the most have no problems with women teaching Sunday school class's as if the location, or the building size has anything to do with it!!! God's anointing is not limited to any specific place. It makes no difference where the Word is being taught, the Holy Spirit is there to work his miracles whether in a small Sunday school room class or large auditorium!! These Churches are so “HYPOCRITES” in their thinking!!

If women were not allowed to speak for God, or under the control of the Holly Spirit, then there should no place in scriptures where we find women doing so, as God is the same yesterday, today, and for ever. (He changes not)
The Bible is filled with women speaking under the guidance of the Spirit of God.

Debora was one of Israel,s greatest prophets, and she was also the fourth “judge” to the nation. She was so loved that the generals of Israel would not go to war unless she went with them into battle!!
Then we have “Miriam, Huldah, Noadiah, and the Prophet Isaiah's wife, whose name we do not know.

In the New Testament we have the “prophetess Anna” who lived during the time of Jesus. She would prophecy every day to all who would come unto the temple, and she did this day, and night!! (Luke 2:36-38) Now that's what I call a long service record.

We have the very first preacher of the New Testament, who just happens to be “Mary Magdaline” who first saw the risen Lord. Jesus tells her.....

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but GO TO MY BRETHREN, AND SAY UNTO THEM, I ASCEND UNTO MY FATHER, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
John 20:18 MARY MAGDALENE CAME AND TOLD THE DISCIPLES that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.

Notice: Jesus did not say to her, “go find me a man so he can go and preach the Gospel to my brethren”

But does not the Bible teach that WOMEN are to keep silent in the Church?

1Co 14:34 LET YOUR WOMEN KEEP SILENCE IN THE CHURCHES: FOR IT IS NOT PERMITTED UNTO THEM TO SPEAK; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
1Co 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

In the Greek language there is no word for “WIFE” so it used the word “WOMEN”. If we read the very next verse we find out that what the Apostle Paul was referring to was not “WOMEN” but “WIFES”!!!

verse 35:
1 Cor 14:35 And if they (WIFES) will learn any thing, let them ask their HUSBANDS at home: for it is a shame for women (WIFES) to speak in the church.

It I s pretty annoying for any one whether it be a husband or wife to speak when a Church service is going on.

1Ti 2:11 LET THE WOMAN LEARN IN SILENCE WITH ALL SUBJECTION.
1Ti 2:12 BUT I SUFFER NOT A WOMAN TO TEACH, NOR TO USURP AUTHORITY OVER THE MAN, but to be in silence.
1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
1Ti 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Here again we find Paul is NOT talking about all women, he is talking about “WIFES”, and “HUSBANDS” which is why he mentions Adam, and Eve who were husband and wife!! Man is the head
of his wife, but only in a “MARRIAGE” CONTRACT!!! I am a man, but I am not the head of any other women except for my wife!! I am surely not the head of any other man's wife, as that would cause a lot of bad feelings, and fights among the Church members.

If a “HUSBAND” does not take his God given right to be the head of his family in marriage, I can tell you for sure the “WIFE” will step up to the plate and take on that responsibility her self, and I don't
blame her, neither does God. Man is only the head of his wife in “marriage”, but he is not the head of his wife in Christ!!! There is no “MALE” or “FEMALE” in the Lord!!! (Gal 3:28) Christ is the head of
the women in the same way Christ is the head of the man in the Lord!!

It was very common during the days of Jesus, that women were much less educated than men, but today we do not have that problem as all men and women are equally educated.

1Tim 3:1 This is a true saying, If a MAN desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
1Tim 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, THE HUSBAND OF ONE WIFE, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

The word, “MAN” does not mean “MALE”!!! It means “WHOEVER, WHOSOEVER, or ANYONE”!! We just assume it means a “MAN” (Male). Then it says, that person must be the “HUSBAND” of one
wife. This does not mean that this person (WHOEVER, WHOSOEVER, ANYONE) hast to be a man. It says if this person happens to be a MAN, then he must be the husband of just one wife. Paul does not mention that a women would have this problem because it was very easy for a man to divorce his wife for almost no reason at all. Women did not have that luxury, under the Old or New Testament, so he does not need to mention it here.

When we find the word “MAN”, or “HE” in these scriptures these words do not mean “MALE” but whoever, whosoever, anyone. The word HE simply means he, or she, or a person.

If the Lord God did not want “WOMEN” to speak or teach in the Church, then he should have told the Holy Spirit not to come upon them (women) so that they can!! All 120 people in the upper room along with ALL the WOMEN spoke in tongues on the day of Pentecost, declaring the Wonders of God to all who heard them out in the streets and that in a Church setting!!!

Psa 68:11 The Lord gives the word; THE WOMEN WHO ANNOUNCE THE NEWS ARE A GREAT HOST: (ESV)

 

[B-A-C]

I agree women should be in ministry in the church. A few observations here....
First of all, women teaching other women isn't a problem at all. Women teaching children isn't a problem at all.
Widows such as Anna the prophetess you mentioned above don't have a husband to be subject to. She primarily
"served" in the temple with fasting and prayers, she did on this one occasion "speak to them who were seeking
redemption for Israel".

The question becomes do women have authority over men? Even spiritual authority?

1 Tim 2:12; But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.
1 Tim 2:13; For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.
1 Tim 2:14; And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.

This first verse doesn't seem to say that can't teach at all, but rather they shouldn't teach men or have authority over men.
Some churches get around this by having men as presbyters or head pastors, and women teachers subject to this pastor.

1 Cor 14:34; The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says.
1 Cor 14:35; If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.

Again, is it improper for women to get together and talk about God/Jesus/scripture? I don't think so. But should they speak out in authority over the men in the congregation? I would question that.

1 Cor 11:3; But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.
1 Cor 11:4; Every man who has something on his head while praying or prophesying disgraces his head.
1 Cor 11:7; For a man ought not to have his head covered, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. 8 For man does not originate from woman, but woman from man;
1 Cor 11:9; for indeed man was not created for the woman’s sake, but woman for the man’s sake.
1 Cor 11:10; Therefore the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels

Eph 5:22; Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord.
Eph 5:23; For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body.
Eph 5:24; But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything.

1 Pet 3:1; In the same way, you wives, be submissive to your own husbands so that even if any of them are disobedient to the word, they may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives,
1 Pet 3:2; as they observe your chaste and respectful behavior.

1 Pet 3:5; For in this way in former times the holy women also, who hoped in God, used to adorn themselves, being submissive to their own husbands;
1 Pet 3:6; just as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, and you have become her children if you do what is right without being frightened by any fear.

There are a lot of things not covered here, but as rule I think a woman's ministry should not have authority over men.

The old testament had Deborah the judge. ( Judges 4:4-5; ) but even she was the wife of Lappidoth.
It's interesting Deborah told Barak the Lord had given him Sisera's life. But he refused to take it.
Jael the wife of Heber ended up killing him with a tent peg. The moral of the story here is, sometimes men don't
"step up to the plate" and become the spiritual leaders. So sometimes women have to do it.

 

[amadeus2]

Quite a number of years ago, a brother shared with me some of the following which I have subsequently rewritten and edited and posted on a few Christian forums. It seems to fit here:


As the natural women is to receive the seed of the man to bear natural children, so is the spiritual woman to receive the spiritual seed of man to bear spiritual children. Consider in this Paul's written words:

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." Gal 3:28

There is a male role and a female role. In the Church, the male is the presenter of the Word (the seed via the preacher or testifier, etc.) and the female is the Church that listens "silently" and receives. Any natural man or natural woman who silently listens and receives is the spiritual woman. Any natural man or natural woman who presents the Word is the spiritual man. Jesus was the Man and all of the listeners were the Woman. Jesus is the Head while the Church is the Body (of Christ). Who is included in the Bride of Christ?

Mary the natural mother of Jesus fits into this pattern as well. God is the Father and Mary is the Mother. The offspring is of the kind that we are intended to have... God is the perfect Father. Mary is human, but unspoiled by a flawed man.

In the "real" world of churches, the preacher when he is presenting the Word is as the Father. Actually, as we know, preachers and other ministers miss the mark many times in many places. But... the same is true of the Woman who is supposed to listen and receive silently, but actually is too often not silent and is critical even when the Preacher is not missing it. There is certainly Error on both sides but an ideal pattern exists given by God if we are able to see it and to replicate it.

As to the entrance of sin, consider this: We know that sin is a result of man (male and/or female) having carnal possibilities. Without God, those carnal possibilities have their way... the ways of men or the way of the flesh. When the forbidden fruit was eaten they, both of them died (not after 900 some years, but forthwith) to God. The hedge around the "world", which was them (that is to say: they were the "world"), was gone. They were no longer OF the Father in His protective enclosure (under His covering):

"For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world." I John 2:16

Jesus brought back the possibility of "whosoever will" having God's hedge around them.

So BOTH men and women may be the ones who need to remain silent if their role at the moment is the role of Church, someone else [male or female] is actively ministering that which God put into his/her mouth.

Even a designated male pastor is part of the Woman [the Church] and needs to sit quietly and listen while God is ministering through another person... even if that other person happens to be a female in the flesh.

Give God the glory!

 

[fig_tree]

Women teaching in the Church today?

Good topic. I'm a female and have pondered this. I'd like to comment from personal viewpoint.

In a church I prefer listening to a man who is filled with and lead by the Holy Spirit. The reason is, I find God has endowed men with greater physical, mental and logical stamina which enables them to deliver messages and teachings with strength and clarity. I've listened to a couple of women Church preachers but felt something lacking. Their preaching didn't make much impact.

If we look at the true model - Christ is Head of His Church. He is at the front leading, directing, teaching.

Also Christ didn't call any women to be one of His Apostles. (Though there were women in the band of 70 disciples.) As we have read, Christ chose His Apostles. Being God, He could have broken culture and tradition and chosen women. This again I think says more about the necessity of male traits for the role - assertiveness, leadership, strength.

I feel women are talented, but from my observations and experiences so far, are best suited to roles of teachers in Bible groups or evangelists leading any size gathering since evangelism is usually a one-off event.

God doesn't love women any less, as we know, however at times I've wondered whether God does take into account the differences in traits when it comes to preaching in a Church or pastoring a Church flock.

Can you recommend a woman who is preaching in a Church that delivers inspired teachings and is leading a flock for Christ?

I remain open on this because God can do anything and raise up anyone He chooses.

 

[Bendito]

In 1 Cor. 14:34 the Apostle Paul’s letter states: “…the women should keep silent in the assemblies. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says.” There are several major problems with this statement.

First, nowhere does the Jewish Law forbid women to speak in public gatherings. Paul, being a well-educated Jew, certainly would have known this. In fact, there was a law on the books that did forbid women to speak, vote and exercise authority over men by holding public office. It was not a Jewish, but a Roman law. These words would sound far more credible if someone else, other than the Jewish Apostle Paul, had written them.

Second, on numerous occasions throughout his travels and letters, the Apostle Paul affirmed the ministry of women (Rom 16:3-4; 1 Cor. 16:19; cf. Acts 16:11-40; 18:26). The centrality of the Shemah – the Oneness of Israel’s God, informed Paul’s theology when he wrote that in Christ-following assemblies there was no place for segregation or discrimination:

“There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” (Gal. 3:28)

In 1 Corinthians 11:5, he wrote that a woman’s head must be covered while she is engaged in speaking in tongues or prophesying in a public assembly. The question was not, therefore, if a woman could speak and teach, but how it should be done in a way that would be right before God, angels and the people of Corinth.

When we read Paul’s letters we need to keep in mind that 1 Corinthians was not the beginning of this correspondence. Paul wrote at least one letter to the Corinthians prior to this (1 Cor. 5:9) and the Corinthian leadership had also written to him (1 Cor. 7:1). It is therefore highly probable that the statement in 1 Cor. 14:34-35 is a quotation from a letter that the Corinthian male leadership had addressed to Paul. It was their proposal on how to bring order into the disruptive practice of some women in the congregation as they spoke in tongues and prophesied. Paul, however, disagreed.

If this text is viewed as a quotation, then the challenge in 1 Cor. 14:36 that Paul brings to the male leadership makes perfect sense:

“Was it from you (masculine) that the word of God first went forth?! Or has it come to you (masculine) only?!”

The all-male leadership of the Corinthian congregation was not to forbid (women) to speak in tongues and themselves were to be encouraged to prophecy just as the women among them already were doing:

“Therefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in tongues. But all things must be done properly and in an orderly manner.” (1 Cor. 14:39-40)

Paul’s solution, therefore, was not to exclude half of the congregation from exercising the gifts of the Spirit, but rather to make sure that it was done in a respectful, proper and orderly fashion.

Was Paul right about women? Absolutely! His Corinthian opponents were not.

 

[Waggles]

Are women allowed to teach in the body of Christ today? This is a major problem in the Church today, only because we do not understand the scriptures, so we have “LOGICALLY ANALYTICALLY” made things up that the Lord never intended, and that by using scriptures to proof it.

Each to their own.
If your church allows for women to have authority over men and husbands in contravention to the scriptures pertaining
to the God-given hierarchy of responsibilities within the family structure - then so be it.
What I believe is proper and scriptural will not stop others from doing what they want to.
Most liberal churches can't even cope with water baptism let alone God's law on husbands and wives.

But as for me and my house we shall serve the Lord our God and do everything according to scripture
and not of our own theology.
Avoids a lot of problems between us and our Lord who makes the rules.

 

[Bendito]

Each to their own.
If your church allows for women to have authority over men and husbands in contravention to the scriptures pertaining
to the God-given hierarchy of responsibilities within the family structure - then so be it.
What I believe is proper and scriptural will not stop others from doing what they want to.
Most liberal churches can't even cope with water baptism let alone God's law on husbands and wives.

But as for me and my house we shall serve the Lord our God and do everything according to scripture
and not of our own theology.
Avoids a lot of problems between us and our Lord who makes the rules.

Well....You can live according to the Word as it's written or not. Its your right to choose.

 

[Lanolin]

I dont now why so many bible in schools teachers were women, like 2/3 were. But so many pastors are men, however youth pastors many are women (or some call them pastrixes). It is because many grown men dont like being told what to do by a woman.

It seems to me if God wants you to speak He will, in many cases its because a man has abdicated his God given responsibility and didnt step up. Which is why Deborah was called to be a prophet in OT times.

Jesus called twelve men to be apostles to represent the twelve tribes of Israel, (bring twelve sons of Jacob) but always wondered what happened to Dinah, the only daughter. Daughters are assumed to marry out, but in her case she was planning to but was thwarted by her own brothers, even when her fiance was planning to convert and be circumcised anyway.

 

[Bendito]

I dont now why so many bible in schools teachers were women, like 2/3 were. But so many pastors are men, however youth pastors many are women (or some call them pastrixes). It is because many grown men dont like being told what to do by a woman.

It seems to me if God wants you to speak He will, in many cases its because a man has abdicated his God given responsibility and didnt step up. Which is why Deborah was called to be a prophet in OT times.

Jesus called twelve men to be apostles to represent the twelve tribes of Israel, (bring twelve sons of Jacob) but always wondered what happened to Dinah, the only daughter. Daughters are assumed to marry out, but in her case she was planning to but was thwarted by her own brothers, even when her fiance was planning to convert and be circumcised anyway.

LOL Some men don't like to be told what to do by women.....Some men are fools...Wisdom is wisdom.

 

[Born Again 2004]

Most liberal churches can't even cope with water baptism let alone God's law on husbands and wives.

Not sure I understand, could you explain further?

 

[Waggles]

Not sure I understand, could you explain further?

Liberalism is permission to put aside the truth of scripture and develop theology
that allows for new progressive Christianity.
Hence we end up with Christians debating and arguing over the significance and obligation for
water baptism as described in the Bible.
A simple commandment given by Jesus himself, in fact demonstrated by Jesus himself, and yet liberals
free themselves from the authority of the scriptures and deny baptism.
Start a thread on "do we need to be baptized by full immersion?" and you will get pages of arguments
for and against.

And so it is with the new liberal progressive theology that demands equal opportunity for women in
having authority in various churches to be pastors, vicars, priests, and bishops.
Liberals wrestle with the scriptures and endlessly rabbit on about this word in the Greek, or Paul
was a misogynist, or that was back in the bad old days but today we are enlightened.

Theology is another word for unbelief.

In the end the scriptures are clear and spell out a hierarchy within church and the family that
has been established by God himself.

22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church:
and he is the saviour of the body.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing;
but that it should be holy and without blemish.
28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loves his wife loves himself.
Ephesians 5:

3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man;
and the head of Christ is God.
1Corinthians 11:

 

[Born Again 2004]

A simple commandment given by Jesus himself, in fact demonstrated by Jesus himself, and yet liberals
free themselves from the authority of the scriptures and deny baptism.
Start a thread on "do we need to be baptized by full immersion?" and you will get pages of arguments
for and against.

You may be right about Liberal/ Progressive theology and their view on Baptism. I don't like Liberal / Progressive theology because it caused me to leave my church of 30 years.
But if it is true what you say, I am a conservative "Born Again" Christian and I don't think Water Baptism is must for salvation either but probably not for the same reason.....Baptism was primarily supported in scripture prior to the cross because it identified Christianity to the masses of that time. Baptism by water requires man's participation with another man and it is not required for salvation after the resurrection, because it comes now, not by works but faith alone!

 

[Christ4Ever]

Enjoying the discussion, though a couple of things have stood out to me in what you have posted brother.

Start a thread on "do we need to be baptized by full immersion?" and you will get pages of arguments
for and against.

Many times the pages of arguments are due to the way the question is phrased. Example as you have stated:

Q1 - Do we need to be baptized by full immersion?

Q2 - Are we being obedient by being baptized by full immersion?

The way one is phrased, almost asks for debate, while two minimizes the possibility of debate. Though I'm sure no matter how you phrase most questions, it clearly will create debate.

Yet, I truly believe the question being asked, rarely explains what has motivated the person to ask it in the first place. Many times it is being done in order to answer it in some future posting, since in most cases they have already determined what the correct answer is.

That is why when you look at the questions asked of Jesus. He knew what was in their hearts in the asking of them! I wonder if they would have still asked the questions, if they had known He could see into their hearts into what was really motivating them to ask them in the first place!!!!

Theology is another word for unbelief.

I would disagree with your statement, but then that probably has more to do with how I believe "Theology" is meant to be, and maybe not the way you view its usage, by the many. Care to define how you view this word "Theology" and its meaning to be?

THEOLOGY
Theology (Gk. theos, "God"; logos, "word")
That branch of Christian doctrine that focuses on the person and work of God and his relations to the world and creation, especially as revealed in the Scriptures.1 In popular usage, the term "theology" becomes an all-inclusive term for the study of the Bible and its doctrine. E.g., "Jack came for supper last night and we talked 'theology' until midnight."

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. John 17:3

Just made me a little curious brother.
With the Love of Christ Jesus dear brother!
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[Lanolin]

You may be right about Liberal/ Progressive theology and their view on Baptism. I don't like Liberal / Progressive theology because it caused me to leave my church of 30 years.
But if it is true what you say, I am a conservative "Born Again" Christian and I don't think Water Baptism is must for salvation either but probably not for the same reason.....Baptism was primarily supported in scripture prior to the cross because it identified Christianity to the masses of that time. Baptism by water requires man's participation with another man and it is not required for salvation after the resurrection, because it comes now, not by works but faith alone!

Oh thats weird I thought baptism was originally associated with orthodox jews and they still under go this as their mikvah it wasnt a strictly christian/religious ritual. Jesus underwent both water and holy ghost baptism plus there is a third with fire. We are to have all three which is one baptism. Baptism isnt a work though. Neither is any of the things the Lord commands us to do like love your neighbour and have the Lords supper. When people talk about the works of the law in the bible its meaning circumcision and offerings etc.

LOL Some men don't like to be told what to do by women.....Some men are fools...Wisdom is wisdom.

Lol make that most men. Which is why God sent his only begotten son, not daughter. Will men listen to women..well most dont, I know cos I'm a woman!

 

[Waggles]

I listened to my woman without fail.
And she knew I did every time I said, "Yes Dear."

 

[Sue J Love]

I listened to my woman without fail.
And she knew I did every time I said, "Yes Dear."

The Bible has much to say about how husband's are to treat their wives. They are to honor them, be considerate of them, and treat them with respect, and as fellow heirs with them of eternal life, so that their prayers may not be hindered. They are to love them as Christ loved and gave himself up for the church to make her holy... They are to love them as they love their own bodies, too. And, they are not to be harsh with them. And, although the wife is to be in submission to her husband, the Bible teaches that we are to submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.

So, if a husband does all that, listening to his wife is a part of that, and I mean really listening, attentively, and remembering what she said, and taking it to heart, and showing her respect and honor in this. Women have a lot of wisdom. They tend to be more sensitive to the voice of the Holy Spirit, but that may not always be the case. But, God has given women to men, not just as their wives, but as their helper, and so, sometimes he gives their wives words of wisdom that it would do well for the husband to listen to and then to heed. Just saying...

 

[Bendito]

The Lord has been giving my Lady downloads for years. They turn into mini sermons for me. I got tired of them one time and asked the Lord why she always did that....He asked me..."Who else has she got to practice on?" I had to laugh. I still get my mini sermons on a regular basis...They're good too.