Women as breadwinners

[Hekuran]

Goods, resources, property, possessions are all roughly synonymous. We don't use 'substance' with the same meaning as the KJV any more.

It all indicates that these women were able to make decisions about how their resources were used - they had some measure of economic autonomy.

If it was merely a place to stay and meals, there are perfectly good words in Greek to indicate hospitality.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Goods, resources, property, possessions are all roughly synonymous. We don't use 'substance' with the same meaning as the KJV any more.

It all indicates that these women were able to make decisions about how their resources were used - they had some measure of economic autonomy.

If it was merely a place to stay and meals, there are perfectly good words in Greek to indicate hospitality.

Hekuran you say... We don't use 'substance' with the same meaning as the KJV any more.

Here we have one of the main issues today.

God's Word is for ALL generations, the same, yesterday, today, forever.

If you do not take God's Word, as it was meant, you are in effect changing the True Meaning of His Holy Word.

We either take God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) at His Word, meaning ALL of it as He means it, or we don't.

Not one jot or tittle shall be changed, this means every Word breathed by God, and the context and meaning He said it in.

 

[Hekuran]

Thats a minor issue not a major issue. God's word is unchanging. But languages do change. Look at the Tyndale translation. It's a remarkable work, and had a profound influence on the history of the English-speaking church. It's no exaggeration to say that everyone reading an English bible is indebted to William Tyndale. But to the modern reader, the language is close to unintelligible.

No problem, we have many excellent modern translations, and scholars who can help navigate the original languages.

 

[Fragrant Grace]

Greetings brothers @Brother-Paul @Hekuran @B-A-C and everyone else who has taken part here.

Thank you so much for your responses - I am reading them all.

It is always grounding to remind ourselves that

For ever, O LORD, Thy word is settled in heaven
Psalm 119:89

A couple of further questions:


Are there some careers that are more suited to women.
For example I am a Registered Nurse, midwifery also comes to mind.

That is where society has changed things....what once would have been a "service" is now a career that requires training.

Secondly, if in a Christian family, with children, the father has never shown a desire to work, leaving the wife to be the breadwinner in order to support the family......is that okay? Should it be addressed and by whom?

Thank you again brothers

 

[Hekuran]

Here's my thoughts, possibly worth exactly what you paid for them.

Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

From the beginning it was God's intention for all people to work - co-workers or junior partners in ruling over creation. Men and women alike. Everybody who is capable should be engaged in some kind of productive work - employment, homekeeping, voluntary service, informal caring, raising children.

The example you have given, is the husband unconcerned about a career and energetic in other ways, or not willing to work at all?

I know a couple well, the wife is a very ambitious worker and dedicated to her job, the husband a great cook, creative, and far less interested in career. Their marriage is very successful.

There's nothing in the Bible I know of that says their arrangement is wrong. To impose a 'man is breadwinner woman stays at home' model on them would probably lead to unhappiness all round.

If the situation you have in mind is causing problems, the couple should first work it out between them. Ideally, the church would have close relationships and systems of accountability that could address it, but I know this often is not the case.

I've just remembered Eph 3:8-10 too.

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God—not the result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are what he has made us, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand to be our way of life.

 

[KingJ]

Are there some careers that are more suited to women.

Yes definitely. God made mankind in His image. But He made them male and female. When Adam and Eve were removed from the garden of Eden He made differing statements to them. Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. Gen 3:17To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat from it,' "Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat food from it all the days of your life.

Note He did not tell Eve what He told Adam. He did not tell Adam what He told Eve.

It is the duty of the woman to be a woman, out of respect to God. It is the duty of the man to be a man, out of respect to God. A woman can be a man and a man can be a woman. Can and should are the differences between obedience and disobedience to God.

Careers for woman should be those where they are able present themselves as 'ladies'. Thus hard manual labor and the military should be obvious no no's.

Secondly, if in a Christian family, with children, the father has never shown a desire to work, leaving the wife to be the breadwinner in order to support the family......is that okay? Should it be addressed and by whom?

Elders of his church need to speak to him. It is wrong.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Thats a minor issue not a major issue. God's word is unchanging. But languages do change. Look at the Tyndale translation. It's a remarkable work, and had a profound influence on the history of the English-speaking church. It's no exaggeration to say that everyone reading an English bible is indebted to William Tyndale. But to the modern reader, the language is close to unintelligible.

No problem, we have many excellent modern translations, and scholars who can help navigate the original languages.

God's Wordd is unchanged, we all agree.
Languages do change again I am sure we will all agree.

It is because languages change that it is so important to look back to the original meaning of a Word.

In the KJV Bible translation and the Tynedale, the word used here is substance.

Luke 8:1-3 (KJV)
1 And it came to pass afterward, that he went throughout every city and village, preaching and shewing the glad tidings of the kingdom of God: and the twelve were with him,
2 And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils,
3 And Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered unto him of their substance.

They ministered to Him with their goods and property, which is more in the line of a roof over His head, food and drink.

The word definition provided from the Strongs numbers and the Vine's Exploratory:
substance, i.e. property (possessions) :- goods, substance.

If we rely on translations alone we can misunderstand the true means, here are just a few examples:

Luke 8:3 (NIV2011)
3 Joanna the wife of Chuza, the manager of Herod’s household; Susanna; and many others. These women were helping to support them out of their own means.

Luke 8:3 (HCSB) Holmans Christian Bible
3 Joanna the wife of Chuza, Herod’s steward; Susanna; and many others who were supporting them from their possessions.

Luke 8:3 (NLT2) New Living Translation
3 Joanna, the wife of Chuza, Herod’s business manager; Susanna; and many others who were contributing their own resources to support Jesus and his disciples.

Luke 8:3 (MSG) The Message Bible
3 Joanna, wife of Chuza, Herod's manager; and Susanna—along with many others who used their considerable means to provide for the company.

The variations in translations are clear to see, it is therefore so important to look back at the meaning of the word in the verse in the Greek, which in Luke 8:3 for substance means; their goods and property, their possessions.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Greetings brothers @Brother-Paul @Hekuran @B-A-C and everyone else who has taken part here.

Thank you so much for your responses - I am reading them all.

It is always grounding to remind ourselves that

For ever, O LORD, Thy word is settled in heaven
Psalm 119:89

A couple of further questions:


Are there some careers that are more suited to women.
For example I am a Registered Nurse, midwifery also comes to mind.

That is where society has changed things....what once would have been a "service" is now a career that requires training.

Secondly, if in a Christian family, with children, the father has never shown a desire to work, leaving the wife to be the breadwinner in order to support the family......is that okay? Should it be addressed and by whom?

Thank you again brothers

Society has changed so much you are correct, everything is moving away from God's Word. It appears the devil has domain, these are the end times, the latter days of the end times it is to be expected the devil is running out of time.

Each one of us has to ask the question, am I right with God, am I doing everything He wants me to do?

We can blame governments for the changes, they have given incentives to these changes, they have provided incentives for men and women differently to get both into work. It all comes down to money! But, the successive governments are not the main source of the issues, it is the devils hand in them. He loves setting us apart, breaking relationships, filling our mind and time with wants. If we have lots on our mind, whether family, debts, making ends meet, or wanting another home, another car, another holiday, whilst we are thinking of these things we are not thinking about God, about our Lord Jesus Christ.

But does a woman need to work? Are there jobs best suited to women, looking after children, helping with the birth of a new creation one may say, but there are men Nurses and Registered nurses. The example you have given, seems to me, that women are likened to this type of work. After all it is looking after children which God designed women to do, society has changed it to what we see today.

As you say above, today these are careers, they were services in the past. Society has changed, the world has changed, but God's Word is the same today and forever. As I write this I also think of doctor's, many females now do this job, they bring in good salaries and conditions and of course a pension. The same can be said for the church, the establishment I am talking of, minister/pastors now have a job with good conditions and a pension, it is so sad how things have changed. We can constantly look for examples, comparing with today, instead of maybe looking for examples and comparing with God's Word and what He made us for, men and women.

Taking your second example Fragrant Grace, you say they are a Christian family, are they all baptised, born-again, spirit filled believers, or what the world calls Christian's? That question put to you we also know people are grafters, workers or just generally lazy. There are many who will let someone do something if they will so they do not have to, if the lady is one that gets up and does things, she is also one that takes it on herself as it often seems easier that way.

This man needs to know God's Word, he needs to know what God expects from all men, has anyone spoken to him, does he go to a place of worship?

Peace be with you. Jesus is Lord.

 

[Curtis]

Is it right that married women with dependent children should be the sole breadwinner?

Should the husband be the breadwinner for the family?

Are there any scriptures that answer this?

Luk 8:1 After this, Jesus traveled around from one town and village to another. He announced the good news of God's kingdom. The Twelve were with him.
Luk 8:2 So were some women who had been healed of evil spirits and sicknesses. One was Mary Magdalene. Seven demons had come out of her.
Luk 8:3 Another was Joanna, the wife of Cuza. He was the manager of Herod's household. Susanna and many others were there also. These women were helping to support Jesus and the Twelve with their own money. (NiRV)

 

[Curtis]

God's Wordd is unchanged, we all agree.
Languages do change again I am sure we will all agree.

It is because languages change that it is so important to look back to the original meaning of a Word.

In the KJV Bible translation and the Tynedale, the word used here is substance.

Luke 8:1-3 (KJV)
1 And it came to pass afterward, that he went throughout every city and village, preaching and shewing the glad tidings of the kingdom of God: and the twelve were with him,
2 And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils,
3 And Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered unto him of their substance.

They ministered to Him with their goods and property, which is more in the line of a roof over His head, food and drink.

The word definition provided from the Strongs numbers and the Vine's Exploratory:
substance, i.e. property (possessions) :- goods, substance.

If we rely on translations alone we can misunderstand the true means, here are just a few examples:

Luke 8:3 (NIV2011)
3 Joanna the wife of Chuza, the manager of Herod’s household; Susanna; and many others. These women were helping to support them out of their own means.

Luke 8:3 (HCSB) Holmans Christian Bible
3 Joanna the wife of Chuza, Herod’s steward; Susanna; and many others who were supporting them from their possessions.

Luke 8:3 (NLT2) New Living Translation
3 Joanna, the wife of Chuza, Herod’s business manager; Susanna; and many others who were contributing their own resources to support Jesus and his disciples.

Luke 8:3 (MSG) The Message Bible
3 Joanna, wife of Chuza, Herod's manager; and Susanna—along with many others who used their considerable means to provide for the company.

The variations in translations are clear to see, it is therefore so important to look back at the meaning of the word in the verse in the Greek, which in Luke 8:3 for substance means; their goods and property, their possessions.

Oops, I posted the same scripture. Thats what happens when you dont read it first.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Oops, I posted the same scripture. Thats what happens when you dont read it first.

Easy done brother no problem.

Humble minds think alike :smile:

Bless you

 

[PloughBoy]

Thank you @Peter

I was really looking for some scriptural answers.

Through out the bible women worked. They shepherd sheep , the got the water from wells and carried it the make the clothing for there families the worked in the fields. Sometimes you can tell when their are no students of “Reformed Theology” around because that knowledge kids learn in Sunday school. Biblical History. International standard Bible Encyclopaedia. USA is nowhere like Biblical Christianity

 

[PloughBoy]

Luk 8:1 After this, Jesus traveled around from one town and village to another. He announced the good news of God's kingdom. The Twelve were with him.
Luk 8:2 So were some women who had been healed of evil spirits and sicknesses. One was Mary Magdalene. Seven demons had come out of her.
Luk 8:3 Another was Joanna, the wife of Cuza. He was the manager of Herod's household. Susanna and many others were there also. These women were helping to support Jesus and the Twelve with their own money. (NiRV)

Where did they work ? At Ford motor. IBM, Quicken loans, where did they get their money at. Most of these people was dirt poor. You remember Jesus feeding the 5,000 men plus the women and children. Read about Bible History. They were dirt poor most of them. That is why when you read holy scripture it is best to use the Grammatical Historical method of biblical interpretation. They wanted the Messiah who would deliver them from their poverty They wanted Him now to setup the Kingdom.

Through out the bible women worked. They shepherd sheep , the got the water from wells and carried it they made the clothing for there families the worked in the fields. Sometimes you can tell when their are no students of “Reformed Theology” around because that knowledge kids learn in Sunday school. Biblical History. International standard Bible Encyclopaedia. USA is nowhere like Biblical Christianity ❤ they didn’t hang out at the spa, and paint their toes And put clothes in wash machines they went down to the river. And soap sure did not come from Walmart. And the dishes did not go in the dishwasher. And the rabbit did not skin it self. And there was not a knob on the stove and a button on the microwave. I’m your brother, she who has no sin cast the 1st stone.