Will there be a rapture?

[will]

What if I don't believe in the Rapture? Matthew 28:18-20 still stands.
What if I do believe in the Rapture? Matthew 28:18-20 still stands.

I think a more relevant question is:

What would I do differently to fulfill the Great Commission had I believed in the Rapture? had I not believed in the Rapture?

 

[sojourn4Christ]

rightly dividing the word of truth

If "all" the Church are to pass through the Tribulation, then instead of waiting and watching "for the Lord, " we should be waiting and watching "for the Tribulation "...

That statement is mere opinion. Regardless, the objective has not changed; I still continue to await the return of my Lord and Saviour, knowing that my only safety is in Him.

I think a more relevant question is:

What would I do differently to fulfill the Great Commission had I believed in the Rapture? had I not believed in the Rapture?

The issue of the timing of the return of Christ is not directly one of salvation, for a mistaken understanding of Christ's return was not included in the short list of unpardonable sins found in Mathew 12:31. I believe the most dangerous aspect of this controversy is also the greatest weapon the enemy has been utilizing from the very beginning: Deception.

I believe an accurate understanding of this issue is a benchmark as to the individual's walk with Christ. If that walk is not where Christ desires it to be, the manifestation of that error is a misunderstanding of this issue -- "If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief..." (Rev 3:3) Remember, when dealing with prophecy, the enemy has three weapons: deception, deception, and deception.

Whoever is deceived on this subject is more vulnerable to the next layer of lies the enemy is planning to unleash in his final assault on the church of Jesus Christ. At some point, it will be undeniable that the tribulation period has begun. Pre-tribulation rapture oriented Christians that find themselves in this period with no spiritual preparation, emotional anticipation, or physical provisions to deal with the devastating circumstances inherent in the tribulation period will be very susceptible to a more serious lie. Many believers will undoubtedly reason that since their pastors misled them on the rapture issue, perhaps they were also in error on other aspects of salvation and the true nature of the Gospel.

Indeed, history seems to indicate that a series of false assumptions in the early church concerning the return of Christ was the motivation for the Apostle Paul's letters to the church at Thessalonica. Satan doesn't change a game plan that works. In fact, he's been using the same tactics for thousands of years, so there are some powerful indicators that this failure to perceive the truth may even be related to the great "falling away" spoken of by Paul in that same second letter to Thessalonica. Note, for example, this predicted departure from the faith occurs at the time of the emergence of the Antichrist.

For many, the much easier path offered by the harlot churh will undoubtedly have more appeal than a brutal martyrdom and the very real possibility of seeing one's family starved, imprisoned, or worse. The way of the true Christian has always been personified more by the martyrs of the Roman Colliseum than the credit card laden modern church of the Mercedes-Benz.

Those that refuse to hear the word of the Lord are those who do not have ears to hear -- even as they move hypocritically to revile those that are telling them the truth concerning the post-tribulation return of Jesus Christ. The mark of the church of Sardis is the mark of The Rapture Cult -- a false understanding of the timing and circumstances of the return of Jesus Christ. To them Jesus Christ says "...God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that YE MAY BE ABLE TO BEAR IT...Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted WORTHY to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man...If therefore thou shalt not WATCH, I will come on thee as a THIEF, and thou shalt not know what hour I shall come upon thee." (1 Cor 10:13; Luke 21:36; Rev 3:3)

The fact is, the vast majority of genuine Christians may very well be called upon to lay down their lives for the testimony of Jesus Christ. A prudent person should begin to recognize these signs and make preparations. Remember, Jesus said the time of the Lord's return would be "just as it was in the days of Noah." (Luke 17:26) What characterized the days of Noah? Noah prepared for the flood for 120 years. He built an ark so that he and his family would survive the flood. He preached of the coming destruction. He brought in food, drinking water, and other supplies. He heard the word of the Lord concerning a future judgment, and at the Lord's direction, he made provision for it.

During the great tribulation, the scriptures say you won't be able to buy or sell without the mark of the beast. You won't be able to earn a living, pay rent, buy food, or anything else. You won't be allowed to participate in society at all. While I prefer not to give any specific advice, I would ask you to ask yourself 'What could I do now, that would benefit my family and myself during such a time?' Remember, the passages describe a time of terrible tribulation. Calamities of enormous peril will become the order of the day.

 

[brakelite]

During the great tribulation, the scriptures say you won't be able to buy or sell without the mark of the beast. You won't be able to earn a living, pay rent, buy food, or anything else. You won't be allowed to participate in society at all. While I prefer not to give any specific advice, I would ask you to ask yourself 'What could I do now, that would benefit my family and myself during such a time?' Remember, the passages describe a time of terrible tribulation. Calamities of enormous peril will become the order of the day.

We cannot appreciate the depths of evil and the enormous pressures that will come upon the people of God in the coming days. The only preparations we can make are spiritual. Drawing closer and closer to Jesus, learning to place our complete trust in Him that no matter what the world may take from us, our confidence and assurance will never waver.
We must read the Bible. Memorise the promises that God has been pleased to offer us. Study the truths of scripture so that we will not be deceived. The coming deceptions will be so real, our senses will be screaming to us 'believe it', but we must cling to the word of God, regardless of what our senses are telling us. Only by the word of God will we be able to discern between truth and error.

 

[B-A-C]

The word "rapture" in not in the Bible, true. Does that mean the rapture isn't talked about? There are literally hundreds of verses about this, here some of them.

1Th 3:11 Now may our God and Father Himself and Jesus our Lord direct our way to you;
1Th 3:12 and may the Lord cause you to increase and abound in love for one another, and for all people, just as we also do for you;
1Th 3:13 so that He may establish your hearts without blame in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all His saints.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus.
1Th 4:15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
1Th 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
1Th 5:2 For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3 While they are saying, "Peace and safety!" then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape.
1Th 5:4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief;
1Th 5:5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness;
1Th 5:6 so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober.

2Th 2:1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,
2Th 2:2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
2Th 2:3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
2Th 2:4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.
2Th 2:5 Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?
2Th 2:6 And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed.
(The Holy Spirit?)
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;
2Th 2:9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders,
2Th 2:10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.
2Th 2:11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false,
2Th 2:12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

Joh 14:2 "In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 "If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.

Joh 14:28 "You heard that I said to you, 'I go away, and I will come to you.' If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.
Joh 14:29 "Now I have told you before it happens, so that when it happens, you may believe.

Luk 17:22 And He said to the disciples, "The days will come when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it.
Luk 17:23 "They will say to you, 'Look there! Look here!' Do not go away, and do not run after them.
Luk 17:24 "For just like the lightning, when it flashes out of one part of the sky, shines to the other part of the sky, so will the Son of Man be in His day.
Luk 17:25 "But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.
Luk 17:26 "And just as it happened in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:
Luk 17:27 they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:28 "It was the same as happened in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building;
Luk 17:29 but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:30 "It will be just the same on the day that the Son of Man is revealed.
Luk 17:31 "On that day, the one who is on the housetop and whose goods are in the house must not go down to take them out; and likewise the one who is in the field must not turn back.
Luk 17:32 "Remember Lot's wife.
(Genesis 19:24-26)
Luk 17:33 "Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.
Luk 17:34 "I tell you, on that night there will be two in one bed; one will be taken and the other will be left.
Luk 17:35 "There will be two women grinding at the same place; one will be taken and the other will be left.
Luk 17:36 ["Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other will be left."]
Luk 17:37 And answering they *said to Him, "Where, Lord?" And He said to them, "Where the body is, there also the vultures will be gathered."

Mat 24:3 As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said to them, "See to it that no one misleads you.
Mat 24:5 "For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will mislead many.
Mat 24:6 "You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end.
Mat 24:7 "For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes.
Mat 24:8 "But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.
Mat 24:9 "Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.
Mat 24:10 "At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another.
Mat 24:11 "Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many.
Mat 24:12 "Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold.
Mat 24:13 "But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.
Mat 24:14 "This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.
Mat 24:15 "Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),
(Daniel 11:31)
Mat 24:16 then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.
Mat 24:17 "Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house.
Mat 24:18 "Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak.
(Luke 17:32, Genesis 19:26)
Mat 24:19 "But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
Mat 24:20 "But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath.
Mat 24:21 "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.
Mat 24:22 "Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.
Mat 24:23 "Then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ,' or 'There He is,' do not believe him.
Mat 24:24 "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.
Mat 24:25 "Behold, I have told you in advance.
Mat 24:26 "So if they say to you, 'Behold, He is in the wilderness,' do not go out, or, 'Behold, He is in the inner rooms,' do not believe them.
Mat 24:27 "For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.
Mat 24:28 "Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.
Mat 24:29 "But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Mat 24:30 "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
Mat 24:32 "Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near;
Mat 24:33 so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door.
Mat 24:34 "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.
Mat 24:35 "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
Mat 24:36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.
Mat 24:37 "For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.
Mat 24:38 "For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,
Mat 24:39 and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.
Mat 24:40 "Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left.
Mat 24:41 "Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left.
Mat 24:42 "Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming.
Mat 24:43 "But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into.
Mat 24:44 "For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.
Mat 24:45 "Who then is the faithful and sensible slave whom his master put in charge of his household to give them their food at the proper time?
Mat 24:46 "Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes.
Mat 24:47 "Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions.
Mat 24:48 ''But if that evil slave says in his heart, 'My master is not coming for a long time,'
Mat 24:49 and begins to beat his fellow slaves and eat and drink with drunkards;
Mat 24:50 the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour which he does not know,
Mat 24:51 and will cut him in pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Rev 3:3 'So remember what you have received and heard; and keep it, and repent. Therefore if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come to you.

The Bible does mention 3 people that were possibly "raptured" (that is.. taken up to Heaven without physical death) in previous times.
Gen 5:24 Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him.
Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was taken up so that he would not see death; AND HE WAS NOT FOUND BECAUSE GOD TOOK HIM UP; for he obtained the witness that before his being taken up he was pleasing to God.
2Ki 2:11 As they were going along and talking, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire and horses of fire which separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind to heaven.
2Ki 2:12 Elisha saw it and cried out, "My father, my father, the chariots of Israel and its horsemen!" And he saw Elijah no more. Then he took hold of his own clothes and tore them in two pieces.
2Co 12:2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago--whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows--such a man was caught up to the third heaven.
2Co 12:3 And I know how such a man--whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows--
2Co 12:4 was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which a man is not permitted to speak.
Jesus himself ascended to Heaven, but this is different from a rapture.

Act 1:10 And as they were gazing intently into the sky while He was going, behold, two men in white clothing stood beside them.
Act 1:11 They also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven."

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

So all that scripture was written for a people that would not exist for 2000 years?
I don't see how these things would help anyone 500 or 1000 years ago.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

This would be for all generations not just one during the end times.
If these scriptures reveal patterns and cycles then it could speak of things we will encounter in our spiritual growth and maturing.

In my personal life the man of sin has already been revealed.He is my old man,my brain which is an enemy to God and refuses to repent of it's apostasy.He is the one Jesus destroys with the brightness of his coming.
Jesus is the day of the Lord,the end of time and the last day and the end of days(time as we know it).
To my brain he represents sudden destruction from above.
To my old carnal mindset he is a thief and a destroyer.

Mat 24:40 "Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left.
Could this be a pattern?
My old man and the new man in Christ are both me.

Like the wheat and tares we are coexisting until the time harvest at the end of days.
I have to deal with these players every day until the last day.
The kingdom of God is within us and we will begin to live in Christ.
I will be caught up in the New Jerusalem where there is no longer day and night cycles but my light will be the Lamb.I don't have to die to be with God but my carnal mindset does.

Revelation 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

Is it possible that these things could have edified the church for 2000 years if they were about the conquering of a carnal mindset by a Godly one???

 

[james g]

That statement is mere opinion. Regardless, the objective has not changed; I still continue to await the return of my Lord and Saviour, knowing that my only safety is in Him.

 

[ozell]

The word "rapture" in not in the Bible, true. Does that mean the rapture isn't talked about? There are literally hundreds of verses about this, here some of them.

1Th 3:11 Now may our God and Father Himself and Jesus our Lord direct our way to you;
1Th 3:12 and may the Lord cause you to increase and abound in love for one another, and for all people, just as we also do for you;
1Th 3:13 so that He may establish your hearts without blame in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all His saints.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus.
1Th 4:15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
1Th 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
1Th 5:2 For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3 While they are saying, "Peace and safety!" then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape.
1Th 5:4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief;
1Th 5:5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness;
1Th 5:6 so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober.

2Th 2:1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,
2Th 2:2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
2Th 2:3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
2Th 2:4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.
2Th 2:5 Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?
2Th 2:6 And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed.
(The Holy Spirit?)
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;
2Th 2:9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders,
2Th 2:10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.
2Th 2:11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false,
2Th 2:12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

Joh 14:2 "In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 "If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.

Joh 14:28 "You heard that I said to you, 'I go away, and I will come to you.' If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.
Joh 14:29 "Now I have told you before it happens, so that when it happens, you may believe.

Luk 17:22 And He said to the disciples, "The days will come when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it.
Luk 17:23 "They will say to you, 'Look there! Look here!' Do not go away, and do not run after them.
Luk 17:24 "For just like the lightning, when it flashes out of one part of the sky, shines to the other part of the sky, so will the Son of Man be in His day.
Luk 17:25 "But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.
Luk 17:26 "And just as it happened in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:
Luk 17:27 they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:28 "It was the same as happened in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building;
Luk 17:29 but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:30 "It will be just the same on the day that the Son of Man is revealed.
Luk 17:31 "On that day, the one who is on the housetop and whose goods are in the house must not go down to take them out; and likewise the one who is in the field must not turn back.
Luk 17:32 "Remember Lot's wife.
(Genesis 19:24-26)
Luk 17:33 "Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.
Luk 17:34 "I tell you, on that night there will be two in one bed; one will be taken and the other will be left.
Luk 17:35 "There will be two women grinding at the same place; one will be taken and the other will be left.
Luk 17:36 ["Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other will be left."]
Luk 17:37 And answering they *said to Him, "Where, Lord?" And He said to them, "Where the body is, there also the vultures will be gathered."

Mat 24:3 As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said to them, "See to it that no one misleads you.
Mat 24:5 "For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will mislead many.
Mat 24:6 "You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end.
Mat 24:7 "For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes.
Mat 24:8 "But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.
Mat 24:9 "Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.
Mat 24:10 "At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another.
Mat 24:11 "Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many.
Mat 24:12 "Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold.
Mat 24:13 "But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.
Mat 24:14 "This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.
Mat 24:15 "Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),
(Daniel 11:31)
Mat 24:16 then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.
Mat 24:17 "Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house.
Mat 24:18 "Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak.
(Luke 17:32, Genesis 19:26)
Mat 24:19 "But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
Mat 24:20 "But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath.
Mat 24:21 "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.
Mat 24:22 "Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.
Mat 24:23 "Then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ,' or 'There He is,' do not believe him.
Mat 24:24 "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.
Mat 24:25 "Behold, I have told you in advance.
Mat 24:26 "So if they say to you, 'Behold, He is in the wilderness,' do not go out, or, 'Behold, He is in the inner rooms,' do not believe them.
Mat 24:27 "For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.
Mat 24:28 "Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.
Mat 24:29 "But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Mat 24:30 "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
Mat 24:32 "Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near;
Mat 24:33 so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door.
Mat 24:34 "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.
Mat 24:35 "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
Mat 24:36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.
Mat 24:37 "For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.
Mat 24:38 "For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,
Mat 24:39 and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.
Mat 24:40 "Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left.
Mat 24:41 "Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left.
Mat 24:42 "Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming.
Mat 24:43 "But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into.
Mat 24:44 "For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.
Mat 24:45 "Who then is the faithful and sensible slave whom his master put in charge of his household to give them their food at the proper time?
Mat 24:46 "Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes.
Mat 24:47 "Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions.
Mat 24:48 ''But if that evil slave says in his heart, 'My master is not coming for a long time,'
Mat 24:49 and begins to beat his fellow slaves and eat and drink with drunkards;
Mat 24:50 the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour which he does not know,
Mat 24:51 and will cut him in pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Rev 3:3 'So remember what you have received and heard; and keep it, and repent. Therefore if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come to you.

The Bible does mention 3 people that were possibly "raptured" (that is.. taken up to Heaven without physical death) in previous times.
Gen 5:24 Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him.
Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was taken up so that he would not see death; AND HE WAS NOT FOUND BECAUSE GOD TOOK HIM UP; for he obtained the witness that before his being taken up he was pleasing to God.
2Ki 2:11 As they were going along and talking, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire and horses of fire which separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind to heaven.
2Ki 2:12 Elisha saw it and cried out, "My father, my father, the chariots of Israel and its horsemen!" And he saw Elijah no more. Then he took hold of his own clothes and tore them in two pieces.
2Co 12:2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago--whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows--such a man was caught up to the third heaven.
2Co 12:3 And I know how such a man--whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows--
2Co 12:4 was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which a man is not permitted to speak.
Jesus himself ascended to Heaven, but this is different from a rapture.

Act 1:10 And as they were gazing intently into the sky while He was going, behold, two men in white clothing stood beside them.
Act 1:11 They also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven."

rapture means a state of esctasy

the majority of the verse yuo posted speak of a resurrection

 

[ozell]

is the raising of the dead the rapture or the resurrection?

when Jesus said he will rasied the dead on the last day is this the resurrection or a rapture?


John 6:39

And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.


40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.


44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

54

Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.



John 11:24
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

 

[ozell]

Jesus said there is a first resurrection, there cannot be any raising of the dead or alive people before the first.

what can be before first.


Revelation 20:5
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[sojourn4Christ]

a ruptured rapture

rapture means a state of esctasy

the majority of the verse yuo posted speak of a resurrection

is the raising of the dead the rapture or the resurrection?

when Jesus said he will rasied the dead on the last day is this the resurrection or a rapture?

Jesus said there is a first resurrection, there cannot be any raising of the dead or alive people before the first.

what can be before first.

The rapture doctrine requires students of the scriptures to approach each relevant verse with certain pre-conceived notions about prophecy. If you simply read the various prophetic verses about the return of Christ, the Bible clearly teaches that believers will be "gathered" at the second coming -- not some secret, invisible return that precedes his BIG second coming at the end of the tribulation. The problem isn't in our understanding of the rapture, because the rapture as routinely taught today doesn't even exist; the difficulty is in our understanding of the resurrection.

In John chapter five, Jesus tells us how God the Father has committed the power of resurrection to him. Jesus says "He that heareth my word and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life...for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." (John 6:24, 28, 29 KJV) According to these passages, apparently there are two resurrections: one for those "that have done good," and a resurrection for those "that have done evil."

In one of the parallel accounts, a verse in Luke has Christ himself saying that the believer shall "be recompensed at the resurrection of the just." (Luke 14:14) Another proof text of this dual aspect of the resurrection is found in the book of Acts when the Apostle Paul was brought before the Roman governor Felix and charged with heresy by the Jews.

Paul stated that he believes, as the Jews did, "that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust." (Acts 24:15) A further example of this understanding of two resurrections is found in the Old Testament, when the prophet Daniel was instructed by the archangel Michael concerning the tribulation and the resurrection. In that instance, Michael said that in the time of the end, "many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." (Daniel 12:2)

Back in the New Testament book of Revelation, we find a reference to "the first resurrection." Rev 20:5) This first resurrection clearly relates to believers in Jesus, for the text states that they "lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years." (Rev 20:4)

In the same chapter, John (the writer of Revelation) says "the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished." (Rev 20:5) Later in the chapter John says, "when the thousand years are expired...I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God...and the dead were judged..." (Rev 20:7, 12) These verses plainly state that there are 2 resurrections -- one for believers and one for unbelievers.

The Revelation passages further clarify that these two resurrections are separated by one thousand years; this being the period we commonly call the millennium during which the resurrected believers shall "reign with him a thousand years." (Rev 20:6)

 

[will]

I believe an accurate understanding of this issue is a benchmark as to the individual's walk with Christ. If that walk is not where Christ desires it to be, the manifestation of that error is a misunderstanding of this issue -- "If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief..." (Rev 3:3) Remember, when dealing with prophecy, the enemy has three weapons: deception, deception, and deception.

Whoever is deceived on this subject is more vulnerable to the next layer of lies the enemy is planning to unleash in his final assault on the church of Jesus Christ. At some point, it will be undeniable that the tribulation period has begun. Pre-tribulation rapture oriented Christians that find themselves in this period with no spiritual preparation, emotional anticipation, or physical provisions to deal with the devastating circumstances inherent in the tribulation period will be very susceptible to a more serious lie. Many believers will undoubtedly reason that since their pastors misled them on the rapture issue, perhaps they were also in error on other aspects of salvation and the true nature of the Gospel.

I really appreciate your warning against Satan's deception, which is well-written, by the way. And indeed all Christians will do better if they are more aware of this danger.

However, the knowledge that we need to watch out for Satan's deception does not require a belief or disbelief in Rapture.

For example, I have never heard any controversy over the Lord's being tempted three times by the devil (Luke 4:1-13), which is at the core of it, deceptions by twisting the meaning of the Scriptures.

Understanding and accepting the dire implications of that passage is enough to warn us and educate us on how to deal with the devil's deceptions, no matter what we believe about the concept of Rapture.

My point is: we often get sucked into debates and discourses about concepts in the Scriptures that should be resolved by individuals in his or her own personal study of the Scriptures, like Rapture, pre-trib, post-trib, millennialism, none of which will edify new (or non- ) believers more than confusing them.

Now, please hear me correctly, I didn't say that those concepts are not worth discussing, or not important, they are, but not in a public forum in which backgrounds and levels of maturity are all over the spectrum. Remember that our mandate is to make disciples, not to spend time arguing with each other.

The fact is, the vast majority of genuine Christians may very well be called upon to lay down their lives for the testimony of Jesus Christ. A prudent person should begin to recognize these signs and make preparations. Remember, Jesus said the time of the Lord's return would be "just as it was in the days of Noah." (Luke 17:26) What characterized the days of Noah? Noah prepared for the flood for 120 years. He built an ark so that he and his family would survive the flood. He preached of the coming destruction. He brought in food, drinking water, and other supplies. He heard the word of the Lord concerning a future judgment, and at the Lord's direction, he made provision for it.

Amen, brother.

Consider this: Noah prepared because he audibly heard instructions from God. He received the plan to build the Ark directly from God. Today, we do not hear God audibly anymore, but God has given us two precious gifts: the Scriptures and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. And in the Scripture, the only direct commission that the Lord given us is: make disciples. That's how we should prepare for His coming again, not arguing about when or what manner.

 

[ozell]

What if I don't believe in the Rapture? Matthew 28:18-20 still stands.
What if I do believe in the Rapture? Matthew 28:18-20 still stands.

I think a more relevant question is:

What would I do differently to fulfill the Great Commission had I believed in the Rapture? had I not believed in the Rapture?

is Matthew 28-20 a rapture or resurrection?

it is not a rapture so it stands it is the resurrection of Jesus

if you beleive in MATTHEW 28 then you beleive in the resurrection
if you beleive in a rapture you cannot beleive in Matthew 28 because Jesus was not rapture.

do you beleive in Matthew 24?
the same Jesus in chapter 28 is the same Jesus in chapter 24

 

[ozell]

=sojourn4Christ;187364]The rapture doctrine requires students of the scriptures to approach each relevant verse with certain pre-conceived notions about prophecy. If you simply read the various prophetic verses about the return of Christ, the Bible clearly teaches that believers will be "gathered" at the second coming -- not some secret, invisible return that precedes his BIG second coming at the end of the tribulation. The problem isn't in our understanding of the rapture, because the rapture as routinely taught today doesn't even exist; the difficulty is in our understanding of the resurrection.

then where does the doctrine of the rapture come from if iy don't exist?

In John chapter five, Jesus tells us how God the Father has committed the power of resurrection to him. Jesus says "He that heareth my word and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life...for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." (John 6:24, 28, 29 KJV) According to these passages, apparently there are two resurrections: one for those "that have done good," and a resurrection for those "that have done evil."

amen

In one of the parallel accounts, a verse in Luke has Christ himself saying that the believer shall "be recompensed at the resurrection of the just." (Luke 14:14) Another proof text of this dual aspect of the resurrection is found in the book of Acts when the Apostle Paul was brought before the Roman governor Felix and charged with heresy by the Jews.

amen

Paul stated that he believes, as the Jews did, "that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust." (Acts 24:15) A further example of this understanding of two resurrections is found in the Old Testament, when the prophet Daniel was instructed by the archangel Michael concerning the tribulation and the resurrection. In that instance, Michael said that in the time of the end, "many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." (Daniel 12:2)

Back in the New Testament book of Revelation, we find a reference to "the first resurrection." Rev 20:5) This first resurrection clearly relates to believers in Jesus, for the text states that they "lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years." (Rev 20:4)

In the same chapter, John (the writer of Revelation) says "the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished." (Rev 20:5) Later in the chapter John says, "when the thousand years are expired...I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God...and the dead were judged..." (Rev 20:7, 12) These verses plainly state that there are 2 resurrections -- one for believers and one for unbelievers.

The Revelation passages further clarify that these two resurrections are separated by one thousand years; this being the period we commonly call the millennium during which the resurrected believers shall "reign with him a thousand years." (Rev 20:6)

amen

but we have a doctrine called rapture that is widely accepted as truth than the truth of God concerning his resurrection.

 

[sojourn4Christ]

walking in truth

Will, thanks for your reply to my post.

Consider this: Noah prepared because he audibly heard instructions from God. He received the plan to build the Ark directly from God. Today, we do not hear God audibly anymore...

I cannot vouch for others, but I myself have indeed been spoken to by my heavenly Father.

...in the Scripture, the only direct commission that the Lord given us is: make disciples. That's how we should prepare for His coming again, not arguing about when or what manner.

One cannot make effective disciples when one is not walking in the truth. Also, concerning the circumstances relative to one's preparation (or lack thereof) during the tribulation, one cannot disciple a corpse.

What I commonly find in the Rapture Cult is a consistent willingness to resist the truth -- even as they speak of love and grace. You can't have love and grace without the truth. This is what is meant by rightly dividing the word of truth. Regarding the period preceding the return of Christ, Paul wrote that there is a "deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish: because they received not the love of the truth..." (II Thes 2:10) This verse speaks volumes to me, for I believe it directly applies to the topic of this thread.

The short story is, the born again believer can never be found to be sustaining a lie -- and the pre-trib "rapture" doctrine is a lie.

then where does the doctrine of the rapture come from if iy don't exist?

Thanks for your reply, ozell.

The pre-trib rapture doctrine first began to appear in the 19th century. While there are a couple of earlier writings that seem to have anticipated the concept, it is now widely documented that the Christian church never heard of such a concept for 18 centuries. It was never taught in scripture, nor in the early church writings of the church fathers. These facts have become a matter of great contention.

While there was a book that some think put forth a variant of the pre-tribulation rapture theory in 1788, it wasn't clear if the writer was espousing pre-tribulationism. Furthermore, we have every indication that particular work quickly sank into obscurity. Pre-tribulationism really begins in 1830, when a young Scottish girl named Margaret MacDonald had a "vision" that indicated to her the concept of a pre-tribulation rapture. She was involved with a shadowy group that mixed occultic practices (e.g. levitation) with the study of the bible.

Shortly after that, a British sect led by one Edward Irving adopted the view. Evidence shows Irving was exposed to Margaret MacDonald's teaching. Later, another British church led by a man named John Darby picked up the doctrine as well. In a series of stateside tours, John Darby brought the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine to America where it has flourished ever since.

but we have a doctrine called rapture that is widely accepted as truth than the truth of God concerning his resurrection.

For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. (1 Cor 11:19)

ozell, I don't understand your last question in post #92, but here is Matthew 28:18-20:
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

 

[gdemoss]

In the same chapter, John (the writer of Revelation) says "the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished." (Rev 20:5) Later in the chapter John says, "when the thousand years are expired...I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God...and the dead were judged..." (Rev 20:7, 12) These verses plainly state that there are 2 resurrections -- one for believers and one for unbelievers.

If I am to understand you correctly, all of those at the first resurrection are those who are the just and all those who are at the second are unjust. Therefore we have 2 resurrections, the just and the unjust?

If so, how do you explain Matt 25:31-46?

 

[sojourn4Christ]

Matthew 25:31-46

Matthew 25:31-46 is talking about the second coming and the judgment scene.

For further details, please go back a page and read my previous post, #90.

 

[gdemoss]

Matthew 25:31-46 is talking about the second coming and the judgment scene.

If I am hearing you correctly, Christs return is supposed to be the first ressurection which is stated that all who partake, the second death has no power over them. How can Matt 25:31-46 be that when the goats are there?

The idea that there is ever a judgment where believers and unbelievers are judged together seems to thwart the truth to any doctrine proclaiming 2 ressurections, one for the just and one for the unjust.

How can this be?

In Christ

Gary

 

[BenCrew]

There is also a theory stating that there will be 3 ressurection, the first one being of the Saints, the second being of the dead, and the third on being of the living.

 

[BenCrew]

There is also a theory stating that there will be 3 ressurections, the first one being of the Saints, the second being of the dead, and the third on being of the living.
( I posted twice by accident, how do you delete your post? thanks )

 

[Kit Carson]

Thessalonians 4:16 says the dead in Christ will rise first.

Think about that, it does not say there are two resurrections, well does it? Just says one is first.

Jesus and others say there will be a resurrection and some will be resurrected to salvation and some will be resurrected to condemnation.
Again does this say there will be two resurrections? Not to me it says some will be one, some will be another, it doe not say there are two.

In Revelation it says something like this will be the first resurrection, but this is also talking about after the thousand year reign, but again it does not say there are two, just that this is the first, and this could very well be a mistake. There are a few things in the bible that do cause deliberation as they are hard to figure out, I generally figure when it becomes confusing men did something in the interpretation.

In Luke it says one will be taken, one will stay, two will be in the bed and one will be gone, one will be in the field, one will be gone, many say.....see tole ya so, the rapture......well read carefully, it says the one gone is to visit the vultures. Evidently does not mean a rapture.

In the end Jesus says, there will be a resurrection, and he will sit the saved on one side and the condemned on the other.

I simply see a bit of confusion in the writings, and modern interpretations simply create more confusion. Men want to sin and have another chance, they hold out for that final chance and so even a third resurrection is born and is preached. So men add to things and put words into things.

I see only one.

Kit