Welcome!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

SignUp Now!
  • Welcome to Talk Jesus Christian Forums

    Celebrating 20 Years!

    A bible based, Jesus Christ centered community.

    Register Log In

Why people leave Christianity

I remember clearly a lovely man, a retired vicar, a gentle man, with a warm smile, he believed God is Love, but he would not accept God will punish anyone, he proclaimed he read the same Bible as myself. If we take the Word of God, as The Truth, which we believe it, are we not expected to take it all from Gen 1:1 to Rev 22:21

I could not agree more. I ''only'' want people to quote three scriptures (1 John 1:5, Psalm 145:17 and 1 John 4:8) with every scripture they find of God's wrath. Let alone all the others of His goodness.

One would think a Christian '''know''' God. It doesn't help reading a -z of scripture if one doesn't ''grasp'' God. Grasp scripture. Read what they not reading. Consider why scripture says what it says.

Have you ever read of Abraham's interaction with God on the destruction of Sodom in Gen 18? Read it. It is fascinating how a good man interrogates God's decision to rain fire and brimstone on them. What this should tell us is that God does not hide His decisions or actions from us. As He has no reason to hide them. As what He does is not wicked or beyond our understanding. We can and will all grasp and agree with what He does to the wicked.
 
I don't agree.

God is love, full-stop. Anything you read outside of 1 John 4:8 needs to be read in the light of 1 John 4:8.

Lets look at this section of scripture not just 1 John 4:8

There are three lessons on 'Love' in 1 John
- 1 John - Chapter 2 - John talks of the love God hates
- 1 John - Chapter 3 - John talks of the love of death
- 1 John - Chapter 4 - John talks of God's Love

1 John 4:7-21 (NKJV)
7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.
8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.
9 In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him.
10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.
12 No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us.
13 By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit.
14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world.

15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.
16 And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. [Brethren] God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him.
17 Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world. [Brethren]
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love.
19 We love Him because He first loved us.
20 If someone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen?
21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.

It is important to note that in these passages, John urges Christian Love amongst believers, the brethren. He is writing to the brethren.

From the high and heavenly descent of love: For love is of God.
He is the fountain, author, parent, and commander of love; it is the sum of his law and gospel:
And every one that loveth (whose spirit is framed to judicious holy love) is born of God, v. 7. The Spirit of God is the Spirit of love.
The new nature in the children of God is the offspring of his love: and the temper and complexion of it is love.
The fruit of the Spirit is love, Galatians 5:22.
Love comes down from heaven.


These are just a small number of the common quotes by LGBTQ+
God is Love, love is from God, if we love God loves us.

God loves all people, but He doesn't love SIN. They do not see what they do as sin, they see it as love.
They do not know what love is or what love is referred to in scripture.

God is LOVE, God is agape Love, Divine Love, God is Hesed Love, Steadfast Divine Love.

Scripture includes either 7 or 9 words for Love, each with a different meaning, the western world uses one, I love my job, I love the sun, I love holidays, I love my car, I love my wife, I love my children, I love my pet, I love money, I love this that and the other.
Often used freely as.... I :love: this or that. I :love:love chocolate, etc, etc

It is important to note here John is writing to the brethren, to believers, which he addresses in his letter to the Beloved. Not to the lost souls in the world.
He is explaining the type of love we should seek from God, loving the brethren, loving others, loving as God loves us.

It is us as saved believers that are to Love as God loves us, because God is Love, because God loved us first.
In short we are to love others with His Love.
 
I could not agree more. I ''only'' want people to quote three scriptures (1 John 1:5, Psalm 145:17 and 1 John 4:8) with every scripture they find of God's wrath. Let alone all the others of His goodness.

One would think a Christian '''know''' God. It doesn't help reading a -z of scripture if one doesn't ''grasp'' God. Grasp scripture. Read what they not reading. Consider why scripture says what it says.

Have you ever read of Abraham's interaction with God on the destruction of Sodom in Gen 18? Read it. It is fascinating how a good man interrogates God's decision to rain fire and brimstone on them. What this should tell us is that God does not hide His decisions or actions from us. As He has no reason to hide them. As what He does is not wicked or beyond our understanding. We can and will all grasp and agree with what He does to the wicked.


Greeting brother, I feel you are cherry picking scripture, you say elsewhere it is dangerous to do this, I agree, and then you do so yourself!

You quote 1 John 1:5, I quote the following...

1 John 1:1-10 (NKJV)
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life--
2 the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us--
3 that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ.
4 And these things we write to you that your joy may be full.
5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.
7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

John is sharing the things they have seen and heard, and bear witness of to get the attention of his listeners, we are not told here who he is sharing these words with, but it is clear he is sharing the Truth to get their attention. He then goes on to discuss lightness and darkness, vs 6 we lie if we do not practice the fellowship with Jesus we proclaim to have. If we say we have no sin again we are lying and deceive ourselves. v6, v8 & v10 are really what this message is about. Getting right with God, coming into the light, not saying we are in the light but practicing the darkness, the ways and things of the world.

God is Light and in Him is no darkness PLT, but if you do this, this and this, you are professing to be in the light but practicing in the darkness, sinning.

The theme of this passage seems to me to be catching the attention of those John is aiming the message at then emphasising various errors,

God is light in Him is no darkness, that is true and that is what John is preaching here, but he is doing so to show the listeners their errors.

We have to read full passages brother, here 10 verses not just 1.

Peace be with you
 
Lets look at this section of scripture not just 1 John 4:8

There are three lessons on 'Love' in 1 John
- 1 John - Chapter 2 - John talks of the love God hates
- 1 John - Chapter 3 - John talks of the love of death
- 1 John - Chapter 4 - John talks of God's Love

1 John 4:7-21 (NKJV)
7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.
8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.
9 In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him.
10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.
12 No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us.
13 By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit.
14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world.

15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.
16 And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. [Brethren] God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him.
17 Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world. [Brethren]
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love.
19 We love Him because He first loved us.
20 If someone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen?
21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.

It is important to note that in these passages, John urges Christian Love amongst believers, the brethren. He is writing to the brethren.

You are making a pre-conceived statement without actually reading the passage properly. No, it does not speak only to love among believers. Did you miss vs 9? John 3:16 explains He loved the world. Unbelievers included. Are you trying to push Calvinism? Calvinism teachers that John 3:16 speaks only to His love for believers.

You have cherry picked a passage that you missread, to espouse an almost heretical view. Now to prove cherry picking I give you Matt 5:44 Love your enemies.

Please can you also provide the verses in ''1 John '2 and 3'' that you believe teaches God being anything other then a God of love. You are making a suggestive opinion in saying '''love of death''. Leaving the door open to heresy.

From the high and heavenly descent of love: For love is of God.
He is the fountain, author, parent, and commander of love; it is the sum of his law and gospel:
And every one that loveth (whose spirit is framed to judicious holy love) is born of God, v. 7. The Spirit of God is the Spirit of love.
The new nature in the children of God is the offspring of his love: and the temper and complexion of it is love.
The fruit of the Spirit is love, Galatians 5:22.
Love comes down from heaven.


These are just a small number of the common quotes by LGBTQ+
God is Love, love is from God, if we love God loves us.

God loves all people, but He doesn't love SIN. They do not see what they do as sin, they see it as love.
They do not know what love is or what love is referred to in scripture.

God is LOVE, God is agape Love, Divine Love, God is Hesed Love, Steadfast Divine Love.

Scripture includes either 7 or 9 words for Love, each with a different meaning, the western world uses one, I love my job, I love the sun, I love holidays, I love my car, I love my wife, I love my children, I love my pet, I love money, I love this that and the other.
Often used freely as.... I :love: this or that. I :love:love chocolate, etc, etc

It is important to note here John is writing to the brethren, to believers, which he addresses in his letter to the Beloved. Not to the lost souls in the world.
He is explaining the type of love we should seek from God, loving the brethren, loving others, loving as God loves us.

It is us as saved believers that are to Love as God loves us, because God is Love, because God loved us first.
In short we are to love others with His Love.

It is so good to hear you say ''God loves all but not their sin''.

The LGBTQ+ are also guilty of cherry picking. If one loves God they will obey '''His''' commandments John 14:15. Obeying His commandments entails putting the flesh under.

All of this does not in anyway shape or form negate or debunk the fact that God is love.

The devil has fooled sinners into thinking that hate for God is love for God. Now you are almost helping the devil in suggesting (and you are) that God only loves believers. Believers are only to love believers. What utter heresy. You are guilty of miss reading and distorting the truth here.
 
Greeting brother, I feel you are cherry picking scripture, you say elsewhere it is dangerous to do this, I agree, and then you do so yourself!

You quote 1 John 1:5, I quote the following...

1 John 1:1-10 (NKJV)
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life--
2 the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us--
3 that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ.
4 And these things we write to you that your joy may be full.
5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.
7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

John is sharing the things they have seen and heard, and bear witness of to get the attention of his listeners, we are not told here who he is sharing these words with, but it is clear he is sharing the Truth to get their attention. He then goes on to discuss lightness and darkness, vs 6 we lie if we do not practice the fellowship with Jesus we proclaim to have. If we say we have no sin again we are lying and deceive ourselves. v6, v8 & v10 are really what this message is about. Getting right with God, coming into the light, not saying we are in the light but practicing the darkness, the ways and things of the world.

God is Light and in Him is no darkness PLT, but if you do this, this and this, you are professing to be in the light but practicing in the darkness, sinning.

The theme of this passage seems to me to be catching the attention of those John is aiming the message at then emphasising various errors,

God is light in Him is no darkness, that is true and that is what John is preaching here, but he is doing so to show the listeners their errors.

We have to read full passages brother, here 10 verses not just 1.

Peace be with you
Quoting the passages around a verse I provided is not evidence that my verse is cherry picked.

We expose cherry picking by quoting other scripture pertinent to the context of said cherry picked verse. Exactly as Jesus did in Matt 4 when tempted by the devil.

You have not done this. No verse in the chapter negates the fact that God is light with no darkness in Him at all. You have highlighted other verses that have absolutely nothing to do with 1 John 1:5. Just because there is a verse directly after speaking to a separate issue, does not negate what said verse said.

Example: Johnny has three apples. Ben has two apples. This does not now mean that Johnny had anymore or less then three apples.

God is light in Him is no darkness, that is true and that is what John is preaching here, but he is doing so to show the listeners their errors.
How does that in any way shape or form alter what he said in 1 John 1:5?

I feel you needed to ''make an accusation'' against me of ''cherry picking''. This is just a shocking post by you Brother Paul.
 
You are making a pre-conceived statement without actually reading the passage properly. No, it does not speak only to love among believers. Did you miss vs 9? John 3:16 explains He loved the world. Unbelievers included. Are you trying to push Calvinism? Calvinism teachers that John 3:16 speaks only to His love for believers.

You have cherry picked a passage that you missread, to espouse an almost heretical view. Now to prove cherry picking I give you Matt 5:44 Love your enemies.

1 John 4: 9
In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him.

What I said brother is the scripture quoted is part of 1 John 4: 7-21 so we look at all this not just one verse so as to read in the right context.

Vs 7 & 11 both start with the words 'beloved'. John is talking here to Saved believers. So we should consider what is said in that context.

1 John 4:7-21 (NKJV)
7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.
8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.
9 In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him.
10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.
12 No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us.
13 By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit.
14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world.

15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.
16 And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. [Brethren] God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him.
17 Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world. [Brethren]
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love.
19 We love Him because He first loved us.
20 If someone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen?
21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.

No I didn't miss verse 9.

9 In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him.

Now you take - In this the love of God was manifested, God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, I can understand your thoughts regarding the Love of God, who as we know gave His One and Only Son to die for us, that we might be saved. Hence the reason you go to the Gospel in miniture John3:16, which we should include more but for the minute I will include John3:16-17

John 3:16-17 (NKJV)
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

No I am not a Calvinist, let scripture speak.

Notice both scriptures, Jesus died that we 'might be saved'. Not will be saved, might be saved. Not all will be saved.

Now there is a definite difference between the two scripture's quoted. 1 John is directed to believers, John 3:16-17 is to all, but again we should read the full section to avoid missing the point and avoid reading out of context. I don't quote this section without including all 21 verses, there is so much to miss.

John 3:1-21 (NKJV)
1 There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews.
2 This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, "Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him."
3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
4 Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?"
5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'

8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit."
9 Nicodemus answered and said to Him, "How can these things be?"
10 Jesus answered and said to him, "Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things?
11 Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness.
12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?
13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

18 He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."

Now what I see here is very important. The first 7 verses says WE MUST BE BORN AGAIN, then Jesus explains this.
Next we have John 3:16 so often quoted on it's own but should always be quoted John 3:16-17 minimum.

Then we have the part that is missed. If we focus vs 16 on God's Love, which is so important we all agree, we miss the full message.

We must read the verses through to v21...
There is a condemnation for those who do not accept Christ as their Saviour. We are told the reason and the condemnation brother.

I shared recently about a lovely retired vicar I chatted two after coming through to the Lord, I would only be around two years old then. He was a nice gentle, caring man, warm looking face, but he would only accept God is Love, it is so dangerous, I feel, so cherry pick verses, to not read full sections of scripture, we and up reading out of context and only reading the bits we like to read.

Summing up brother.
1 John 4:1-21 - John is talking to believers
John 3:1-21 - the message is for all, but we must read it all.

Yes, God so loved the world, He had created, that He gave His One and Only Son, to die the cruellest death ever invented, so they we might have eternal life through Him.

But the message is 'might', 'should not' providing we are 'born again'.
If we are not born again, we will not be saved, because he who does not believe is condemned already

We must ready all scripture in the context of that which is written for us.

Bless you.
 
Quoting the passages around a verse I provided is not evidence that my verse is cherry picked.

We expose cherry picking by quoting other scripture pertinent to the context of said cherry picked verse. Exactly as Jesus did in Matt 4 when tempted by the devil.

You have not done this. No verse in the chapter negates the fact that God is light with no darkness in Him at all. You have highlighted other verses that have absolutely nothing to do with 1 John 1:5. Just because there is a verse directly after speaking to a separate issue, does not negate what said verse said.

Example: Johnny has three apples. Ben has two apples. This does not now mean that Johnny had anymore or less then three apples.

How does that in any way shape or form alter what he said in 1 John 1:5?

I feel you needed to ''make an accusation'' against me of ''cherry picking''. This is just a shocking post by you Brother Paul.

I am sorry you feel that way brother, no way is a post targeted, making an accusation, it was just added to show an error in reading by taking a verse not a section.

Take away the term cherry picking brother. What I am saying is we cannot take one verse from a section without taking all verses in that section into consideration, John 3:1-21 is an excellent example. If we read John 3:16 we hear of the incredible love God the Father had, that He let is one and only son die for our sins, so we may be saved. But by reading that one verse we miss the ones before it, to be saved we must be born again. We also miss the verses after it which includes the condemnation.

A picture as more than one colour. Scripture always has more than one verse.

Bless you
 
1 John 4: 9
In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him.
What I said brother is the scripture quoted is part of 1 John 4: 7-21 so we look at all this not just one verse so as to read in the right context.
Vs 7 & 11 both start with the words 'beloved'. John is talking here to Saved believers. So we should consider what is said in that context.
1 John 4:8 says God is love, whoever does not know love does not know God.

The fact that the passage starts with ''beloved'' has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that 1 John 4:8 says ''God is love, whoever does not know love does not know God''.

No I am not a Calvinist, let scripture speak.
Then stop suggesting 1 John 4:8 or John 3:16 is directed at the beloved only. Or please try be clearer.

Notice both scriptures, Jesus died that we 'might be saved'. Not will be saved, might be saved. Not all will be saved.
True, but this has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that 1 John 4:8 says ''God is love, whoever does not know love does not know God'' and that His love was manifested per John 3:16 where He died for all.

The fact that not all are saved is not an argument in opposition to ''God is love''. It is a separate issue. It is not evidence of cherry picking.
 
I am sorry you feel that way brother, no way is a post targeted, making an accusation, it was just added to show an error in reading by taking a verse not a section.

Take away the term cherry picking brother. What I am saying is we cannot take one verse from a section without taking all verses in that section into consideration, John 3:1-21 is an excellent example. If we read John 3:16 we hear of the incredible love God the Father had, that He let is one and only son die for our sins, so we may be saved. But by reading that one verse we miss the ones before it, to be saved we must be born again. We also miss the verses after it which includes the condemnation.

A picture as more than one colour. Scripture always has more than one verse.

Bless you
We must consider all surrounding verses agreed. But there are many verses that can be used as stand alone verses.

The verses I have used are verses that define God. They are most definitely stand alone verses.

Example: Dear class, the earth orbits the sun. This does not mean the earth only orbits the sun when the class is looking through a telescope.
 
@KingJ

As stated in post #67... Take away the term cherry picking brother.

Let scripture speak, All scripture not just bits that suit or fit into what we want to believe.

John 3:16-21
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

18 He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."

God is Love. PTL we got it, we know, we thank him, we praise him. In Jesus Name Amen

But you cannot take verse 16 and ignore the other verses that tell us what id right and wrong and include the condemnation.

Yes brother Jesus died for all, thank you Lord, but it doesn't mean all will accept him. They won't all accept him. Those who don't will pay the price.

God is love does not mean all will be saved.

God is love doesn't mean those who die without being saved will get a second chance.

He demonstrated his love through the sacrifice of His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Scripture clearly shows us what is right, what is sinful and not right in his eyes. It also gives us the warning, it tells us of the condemnation and his wrath.

We have to accept it all, He has given us his all.

You also mention 'Or please try be clearer' some things are not as easy to explain as others, what you are trying to put over regarding purgatory is not coming over clear to me. We all have trouble with some items from time to time, if one explanation doesn't gel with the reader, try another.

Peace be with you.
 
And this is love, that we walk after His commandments.

This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it. For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.

Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: for he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

2John 1:6-11
 
Back
Top