Why people believe they love ones, looking down on them smiling

[BroTan]

Death and resurrection, spiritually and physically. What does this statement mean? There are a few things we must find out. Preachers are miss leading people into believing fantasy stories. People go to grave talking to dirt and statutes, buying flowers, wasting time and money. People believing that they love ones are looking down on them smiling, with all this hell going on in earth.When a person dies, does he or she have any consciousness? Does a puff of smoke leave their body and go flying off into the third heaven? Did you know that there is three heaven? Do you really believe your love ones looking down at you from heaven, smiling. Or do they just float around the earth hunting houses, jumping from behind trees scaring people? If you have a logical bone in your body you know that is sheer nonsense. It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true" (John 8:17). We will quote testimonies from the Prophets and the Apostle.

Who gave them the word? (Acts 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which showed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: 53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.) They received the law by the disposition of angels.

Where did the angels get the word? (Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John The angels got it from the Lord. The Lord got it from the Father. The Prophets and the Apostle are simply quoting the Lord. If you don't believe them, you don't believe the Lord.

Our first witness is Solomon. He is very wise, as a matter of fact he was wiser than any man that walked the earth, except for Jesus of course. Why? I Kings 3:28 And all Israel heard of the judgment which the king had judged; and they feared the king: for they saw that the wisdom of God was in him, to do judgment. I Kings 4:1 So king Solomon was king over all Israel. He had the wisdom of God.

Let' see what Solomon has to say about this subject. Ecclesiastes 9:3 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.

Take a look at what Solomon said. This event happened to us all while we are under the sun. Why did he say under the sun? We'll find this out later. Pay close attention here. The heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live. While they live. Then what happens after that? They go to the dead.

 

[Rhema]

Preachers are misleading people into believing fantasy stories.

Ain't that the truth. !!!

Why do people believe that their loved ones are looking down on them smiling.

It seems to help them deal with their emotions.

But one might need to address this scriptural passage:

Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,​

- Hebrews 12:1 KJV

The Greek word actually means cloud (like the cartoons with all those dead people sitting on the clouds). And I don't know of any Greek manuscript that would use "cloud" to mean "body of testimony."

Those who take scripture quite literally would say these witnesses are up there sitting on those clouds.

God bless,
Rhema

 

[KingJ]

​

Why people believe they love ones, looking down on them smiling​

Because that is what scripture teachers when you don't cherry pick.

Death and resurrection, spiritually and physically. What does this statement mean? There are a few things we must find out. Preachers are miss leading people into believing fantasy stories. People go to grave talking to dirt and statutes, buying flowers, wasting time and money. People believing that they love ones are looking down on them smiling, with all this hell going on in earth.When a person dies, does he or she have any consciousness? Does a puff of smoke leave their body and go flying off into the third heaven? Did you know that there is three heaven? Do you really believe your love ones looking down at you from heaven, smiling. Or do they just float around the earth hunting houses, jumping from behind trees scaring people? If you have a logical bone in your body you know that is sheer nonsense. It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true" (John 8:17). We will quote testimonies from the Prophets and the Apostle.

Who gave them the word? (Acts 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which showed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: 53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.) They received the law by the disposition of angels.

Where did the angels get the word? (Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John The angels got it from the Lord. The Lord got it from the Father. The Prophets and the Apostle are simply quoting the Lord. If you don't believe them, you don't believe the Lord.

Our first witness is Solomon. He is very wise, as a matter of fact he was wiser than any man that walked the earth, except for Jesus of course. Why? I Kings 3:28 And all Israel heard of the judgment which the king had judged; and they feared the king: for they saw that the wisdom of God was in him, to do judgment. I Kings 4:1 So king Solomon was king over all Israel. He had the wisdom of God.

Let' see what Solomon has to say about this subject. Ecclesiastes 9:3 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.

Take a look at what Solomon said. This event happened to us all while we are under the sun. Why did he say under the sun? We'll find this out later. Pay close attention here. The heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live. While they live. Then what happens after that? They go to the dead.

All dead were in Hades in the OT. The grave is Hades. Not a coffin in the ground.

--------------------

For the reader. Annihilationist's construe and cherry pick a number of scriptures to formulate their belief.

1. All dead are sleeping.
2. Eternity does not mean eternity.
3. Nobody goes to heaven.
4. Jesus is not God.
5. Death by fire = literal death by fire.

They have torn Luke 16:19-31 from their bible. Read most scriptures back to front and carefully select a few that support their ideology.

Now on face value it does not seem to be a terrible heresy, annihilationism > eternal torture. But when you meditate on it, you realise it is an extremely terrible heresy that pushes a number of things that incriminate God as evil.

Scripture is CRYSTAL clear that God loves us John 3:16,1 Pet 4:8 and is righteous in all His ways Psalm 145:17.

Just looking at the five points raised.

1. Implies that God is not eager to meet you. God of the universe gave His life for you but can wait years to meet you...all because your flesh died....ignore the fact that He made you A. Spirit, B. Mind and C. Flesh.

2. No eternal life with Jesus, every mention of eternity equalling eternity, removed. Except for a specific passage mentioning ''day and night'' for the devil, antichrist and false prophet. They and God will live forever.....as 'day and night' cannot yet be altered .

3. God died for us but He does not love us enough to welcome us into His home.

4. God got some unlucky fella / creation called His son who drew the shortest straw to die for us.

5. No free will. Accept God or literally die.

Utter heresy and a complete mockery of scripture! 90% of scripture flying over their heads!

 

[KingJ]

Preachers are misleading people into believing fantasy stories.

Ain't that the truth. !!!

Irony.

Imagine telling the lost that God loves and died for that he does not love and did not die for them, and that He is not eager to meet them. They can rest in their graves a while longer.

I have one scripture for false teachers like you two.

Matt 18:6

If anyone causes one of these little ones those who believe in me to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

Come visit me, I live at the coast. I can give you two swimming lessons.

 

[bdavidc]

People believe their loved ones are “looking down on them and smiling” because they are trying to find comfort in loss, but this belief is not supported by Scripture. According to the Bible, the dead are not watching us from heaven or anywhere else. When a believer dies, they are present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:8), resting from their labors (Revelation 14:13), not observing earthly events.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 is clear: “For the living know that they shall die, but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.” Verse 6 continues, “Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished.” In other words, the dead are not involved in or aware of what happens on earth.

The idea of loved ones “smiling down from heaven” is a sentimental notion, but it’s not biblical. It replaces the comfort of God's truth with emotion-based tradition. Scripture tells us to seek comfort in the promises of God, not in imagined scenes. Our hope is not that our loved ones are watching us, but that if they died in Christ, we will see them again in the resurrection (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17).

Biblical comfort is rooted in truth, not feelings. We walk by faith, not by sight or sentiment (2 Corinthians 5:7). God alone sees everything and is with us always (Hebrews 13:5), not our departed loved ones.

 

[Curtis]

Luke 15:6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, 'Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!'
Luke 15:7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

Luke 15:10 Likewise, I say to you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents."

Angels are not omniscient enough to know what is happening on Earth. Only God knows these things.
Who dwells in the presence of angels? Angels are in God's presence. Born-again believers who have physically died are in the presence of
God and angels. How can they (born-again believers in Heaven) "rejoice" over a sinner who repents unless they know what is happening on Earth?

 

[KingJ]

Heb 12:1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us.

If you read the prior chapter with Heb 12 you will see that the cloud of witnesses are those who have come before us.

Eph 2:6 For he raised us from the dead along with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms because we are united with Christ Jesus

All saints before us are seated with Jesus. Jesus is watching us from above, saints are seated next to Him...

Psalm 121:5 The Lord watches over you the Lord is your shade at your right hand.

 

[MedicBravo]

There's no Biblical basis for dead humans if they are in heaven looking down.
It's some idiotic, Olive Garden, nonsense fantasy they tell themselves b/c the truth in their own family would horrify them.
Any good Christian knows what happens after death.
No Limbo. No 2nd chance. None of that Catholic nonsense.
We do know:
No one is in Hell before the Final Judgment. If they were, they'd get a "break from torment and fire" for the Final Judgment.
No one gets a "free trial of Heaven or Hell". The human mind is an amazing thing and can play tricks on itself.
No one's reward or punishment is given until the Final Judgment.

 

[Rhema]

Irony

Especially since your first screed never provided an answer to his question, just a litany of complaints about other people.

I have one scripture for false teachers like you two.

And I have one for you.

Jesus wept.​

- John 11:35 KJV

But I am glad that you're getting in your swimming lessons. And I live near a quarry, so I'll pick out a really nice looking millstone for you. Polished and everything !!

 

[BroTan]

Irony.

Imagine telling the lost that God loves and died for that he does not love and did not die for them, and that He is not eager to meet them. They can rest in their graves a while longer.

I have one scripture for false teachers like you two.

Matt 18:6

If anyone causes one of these little ones those who believe in me to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

Come visit me, I live at the coast. I can give you two swimming lessons.

Some time a brick of truth is thrown in the air and lands on deceptiveness. What the Bible say in Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

For the living know not any thing, neither any more reward. Why? Once you're dead there is no more hope. If you went to the grave in Christ, he will awake you in the first resurrection, and you will live and reign on the earth with him and the saints. If you did not die in Christ he will wake you in the second resurrection and you will be judged according to your works. If you are dead do you have any memory? What did Solomon say? "For the memory of them is forgotten".

 

[BroTan]

​

Because that is what scripture teachers when you don't cherry pick.



All dead were in Hades in the OT. The grave is Hades. Not a coffin in the ground.

--------------------

For the reader. Annihilationist's construe and cherry pick a number of scriptures to formulate their belief.

1. All dead are sleeping.
2. Eternity does not mean eternity.
3. Nobody goes to heaven.
4. Jesus is not God.
5. Death by fire = literal death by fire.

They have torn Luke 16:19-31 from their bible. Read most scriptures back to front and carefully select a few that support their ideology.

Now on face value it does not seem to be a terrible heresy, annihilationism > eternal torture. But when you meditate on it, you realise it is an extremely terrible heresy that pushes a number of things that incriminate God as evil.

Scripture is CRYSTAL clear that God loves us John 3:16,1 Pet 4:8 and is righteous in all His ways Psalm 145:17.

Just looking at the five points raised.

1. Implies that God is not eager to meet you. God of the universe gave His life for you but can wait years to meet you...all because your flesh died....ignore the fact that He made you A. Spirit, B. Mind and C. Flesh.

2. No eternal life with Jesus, every mention of eternity equalling eternity, removed. Except for a specific passage mentioning ''day and night'' for the devil, antichrist and false prophet. They and God will live forever.....as 'day and night' cannot yet be altered .

3. God died for us but He does not love us enough to welcome us into His home.

4. God got some unlucky fella / creation called His son who drew the shortest straw to die for us.

5. No free will. Accept God or literally die.

Utter heresy and a complete mockery of scripture! 90% of scripture flying over their heads!

Again the Bible says in Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

For the living know not any thing, neither any more reward. Why? Once you're dead there is no more hope. If you went to the grave in Christ, he will awake you in the first resurrection, and you will live and reign on the earth with him and the saints. If you did not die in Christ he will wake you in the second resurrection and you will be judged according to your works. If you are dead do you have any memory? What did Solomon say? "For the memory of them is forgotten".

 

[Curtis]

The body of Christ is not just those who are alive on planet earth but also all those in Heaven.

1Co 12:26 And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; or if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.
1Co 12:27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually.

 

[BroTan]

The word of God says in Ecclesiastes 9:4For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.

While you are still alive there is still hope. What hope is this? Romans 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: This is what you hope for while you are still alive. Notice something else, Solomon said. For a living dog is better than a dead lion. Why is that? The dog is alive and the lion is dust. Can a dead lion be of any use? No! Solomon said a mouth full, look at the next verse.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

For the living know not any thing, neither any more reward. Why? Once you're dead there is no more hope. If you went to the grave in Christ, he will awake you in the first resurrection, and you will live and reign on the earth with him and the saints. If you did not die in Christ he will wake you in the second resurrection and you will be judged according to your works. If you are dead do you have any memory? What did Solomon say? "For the memory of them is forgotten". Now we know you have no more memory while you are in the grave. If you did something wrong to a person and they're dead, you don't have to worry, they won't come and haunt your house.

Solomon said in Ecclesiastes 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

This verse speaks for itself. To put it short you don't remember anything while you are in the grave. Why does he continue to say "under the sun"? He's said it twice. We will find out a little later.

Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave whither thou goest.

If there is no work, no device, no knowledge, no wisdom, in the grave, why does the status quo say there are spirits that walk the earth? They have no knowledge of the Word of God. There are spirits that walk the earth, but they are not dead people. They are fallen angels. We will see an example of one later. In short, the dead don't know anything.

 

[Curtis]

The word dead means corpse. A corpse is a dead body without a spirit. Of course a corpse knows nothing because it’s memory was in its spirit that has left.

The resurrection of the dead is the resurrection of the body that held the persons spirit not the resurrection of the spirit.

 

[Rhema]

Angels are not omniscient enough to know what is happening on Earth.

Says who? What scripture provides any basis of support for this notion? And what if these angels are on earth? They have no way to talk with God or each other?

Luke 15:10 Likewise, I say to you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents."

With all due respect, I would suggest you read that again, because the angels are rejoicing. No dead humans.

Born-again believers who have physically died are in the presence of God and angels.

Yet the scriptures you quoted don't prove this claim. Let's look again at Luke 15:10

Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.​

- Luke 15:10 KJV

This does not say that humans are having joy in the presence of the angels of God in heaven. Nor is the joy over dead people arriving in heaven. The joy is over a sinner that repenteth - one who is still alive here on Earth.

ουτως (THUS) λεγω (I SAY) υμιν (TO YOU) χαρα (JOY-DELIGHT) γινεται (COMES TO BE IN the) ενωπιον (VISAGE) των (OF THE) αγγελων (ANGELS) του (OF) θεου (GOD) επι (OVER) ενι (ONE) αμαρτωλω (SINNER) μετανοουντι (REPENTING)

I would also point out that in this verse, the angels are not in heaven. "Visage" literally means "face to face," so it's highly likely that the the sinner on earth who repents is face to face with the angel(s) to whom joy is brought into being.

Kind Regards,
Rhema

 

[Rhema]

The body of Christ is not just those who are alive on planet earth but also all those in Heaven.

There is no scripture that states these people are in heaven. OR... you would have posted it.
So... Post It.

God is not the God of the dead.

If dead people were living elsewhere, then he would be the God of the dead.

 

[Rhema]

it’s memory was in its spirit that has left.

Which comic book did you read this in?

AGAIN. There is no scripture that states a person's memory is in his "spirit." OR... you would have posted it.
So... Post It.

 

[KingJ]

Especially since your first screed never provided an answer to his question, just a litany of complaints about other people.


And I have one for you.

Jesus wept.​

- John 11:35 KJV

But I am glad that you're getting in your swimming lessons. And I live near a quarry, so I'll pick out a really nice looking millstone for you. Polished and everything !!

I don't think you understand the difference between making a mistake when teaching verse teaching falsely.

If you simply made mistakes when teaching scripture, it is completely forgivable. But false teaching is not.

I gave logical and sound reasons for why your belief is false teaching. As always you never address my accusations of your belief. False teaching and dancing 101. You should give lessons to other false teachers.

My message does not taint God as wicked. Yours does. Scripture is crystal clear that God is not wicked. You most certainly do have to take swimming lessons!

 

[KingJ]

"For the memory of them is forgotten".

It is not meant to be taken literally. When the dead are no longer around you, over time you forget them.

 

[KingJ]

Again the Bible says in Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

For the living know not any thing, neither any more reward. Why? Once you're dead there is no more hope. If you went to the grave in Christ, he will awake you in the first resurrection, and you will live and reign on the earth with him and the saints. If you did not die in Christ he will wake you in the second resurrection and you will be judged according to your works. If you are dead do you have any memory? What did Solomon say? "For the memory of them is forgotten".

Ecclesiastes 9 is written in a poetic style. Not to be taken literally. The context and point is simply that over time, the dead are forgotten.

If you take verse 5 literally, must we also take the rest literally? What you are doing is called 'grabbing a straw'.

Eccl 9:2 All things come alike to all: there is one event to the righteous, and to the wicked; to the good and to the clean, and to the unclean; to him that sacrificeth, and to him that sacrificeth not: as is the good, so is the sinner; and he that sweareth, as he that feareth an oath.

Eccl 9:4 For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.