Who Justifieth the Ungodly

[Brightfame52]

Faith is not the causative reason for one's Justification before God unless we are strictly speaking of Christ's Faith or Faithfulness, but rather it is the sense, or perception, and evidence of ones Justification [ Heb 11:1] for it is Christ's Righteousness as imputed that only Justifies before God, and this is revealed from Faith to Faith to heaven born Faith ! Faith is a spiritual grace or fruit [Gal 5:22] and enabling produced by the Holy Spirit of God that gives the redeemed sinner eyes to see in Christ a imputed Righteousness, now having by Him also convicted of our own sinfulness by nature, we do turn from our own Righteousness, and succumb to the Righteousness we have had revealed to us by the Gospel, provided by Christ Rom 1:16-17, hence the Spirit of God bears witness with our spirit that we are indeed Justified and do have peace with God through Jesus Christ, and do become evidentially as well as declaratively Justified by the Spirit of God 1 Cor 6:11. Now Faith reveals to the Elect sinner, their state in Christ, and their free gift of Righteousness through Him Rom 5:17-18

17For if by one man's offense death reigned by one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by One, Jesus Christ.

18Therefore as by the offense of one, judgment to condemnation came upon all men, even so by the righteousness of One, the free gift unto justification of life came upon all men. 3

 

[Brightfame52]

God's Justification of His Elect is Twofold, it is first and foremost forensic and declarative of God's Mind, and then it is experimental or internal, fir then God causes the Justified to live like it by Faith, for the experimental comes by the New Birth. All those whom God Justifies judicially by the Blood of Christ and His Grace Alone per Rom 5:9;3:24 shall be Justified experimentally by the Spirit 1 Cor 6:11

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

This scripture confirms a first Justification by Christ, His Blood, or in His Name, followed by the Justification the Spirit accomplishes, which is also because of Christ's Name or in recognition of His Work ! Hence God gives grace for the living according to their Judicial status. That is why it is imperative that all for whom Christ died, must be born again Rom 5:19b

so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous [experimentally by New Birth].

In addition to making Christ's obedience the sole basis of forensic Justification, it is also the sole basis for constitutive righteousness which is brought to pass by New Birth ! 3

 

[Garee]

Faith being not a condition !

Faith being not a condition, but a means of revealing or making known that Justification, that already exists in God's Mind, that is already credited to ones account, because of Christ's redemptive blood.

Justification by Faith is how God has ordained that the Justified ones find out about and realize their Justification freely given to them by God through Jesus Christ ! This is why it is written, the Just or Justified shall live by Faith, hence everyone Christ died for and shed His Blood for, are Justified before God because of it [Rom 5:9] they must be given Faith, a Fruit of the Spirit of God, to embrace and receive consciously that Peace with God, which Christ's redemptive blood accomplished for them as God's Elect, and so is so called " The Faith of God's Elect"

Those who take Justification by Faith [ Rom 5:1] and declare it to be a condition of man, that he must meet, in order to God to Justify them, they PERVERT the Truth of Justification by Grace and Faith, and do preach a false and accursed Gospel. That Justification is received by Faith, as it is revealed to the Justified one, we most heartily agree, but to state that it is a condition in order to get Justified before God, we reject as criminal and Apostate !

If it is a means, it is a condition.

The law of faith or law of hidden understanding as belief, The two part law (1) "let there be" and (2):it was the good labor of Christ love.

The same kind of faith as a power for each other, the mutual faith as it is written

1 Thessalonians 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, (let there be) and labour of love,(And it was good) and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

It destroys the letter of the law "death thou shalt not" and works with it creating one new perfect law of faith, the power of Christ by which we can believe our first love and return to it.

Two incompletes Let there be. . and it was good two made into one new perfect

Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

No different than human faith. My dear wife faithfully sends me I faithfully go and receive the apostles reward two homemade peanut butter cookies and a cold glass of milk.

 

[Brightfame52]

@Garee

If it is a means, it is a condition.

Then thats law/works Justification and denial of grace.

 

[Garee]

@Garee



Then thats law/works Justification and denial of grace.

Yes the law of or power of faith. . . believing the things of God not seen it completes grace.

 

[amateurscholar]

Who Justifieth the Ungodly
Rom 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 5:6
For when we [The elect] were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
These verses tells us something about the elect ! First that by nature we are ungodly, children of wrath as others..Eph 2:3
3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Amen being children of wrath by nature as others is just another way of saying, that we were ungodly..
But one of the Great Gospel doctrines is described in Rom 4:5 is that God justifieth the ungodly..
Now , get this, The elect are Justified before God. by the obedience and righteousness of Jesus Christ [Rom 5: 18-19] while we are dead in trespasses and sins,
while we are by nature children of wrath even as others, and while by lifestyle, ungodly. While we the elect are in this very sinful condition, that we are Justified by Jesus christ blood and clothed in His imputed righteousness, even though we dont know it at the Time, but God knows it , because He is the one who did it..
Rom 8:33-34
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
You see, most false teachers today think that Rom 8 :33 applies to post conversion, but it also applies to pre conversion, for God Justifieth the ungodly, before they are converted..
Thats why its of grace. Titus 3:7
That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Its by grace because of the sinful condition we are in by nature when we are Justified before God..

The way you explain God justifying us while we're still "ungodly" reminds me of what Luther called "alien righteousness" - it's not our own, but Christ's righteousness given to us. This idea changed everything during the Reformation.

This teaching is so healing. Many people struggle with feeling "good enough" or trying to earn God's love. But Romans 4:5 shows us that God justifies us while we're still sinners - not after we clean ourselves up.

It's like a parent who loves their child unconditionally - not because the child earned it, but because of who the parent is. This foundation of grace helps build healthy spiritual identity.

Your point about justification happening before conversion is interesting too. This connects to what Reformed theologians call "the ordo salutis" or order of salvation. Many Christians don't realize that justification in God's sight happens before we're even aware of it!

The best news in all this? We don't have to carry the burden of earning our salvation. Christ already did the work, and we receive it by faith. That's not just good theology - it's good for our mental health too.

God bless you for digging into these deep truths!

 

[Brightfame52]

Sometimes disobedient

Titus 3:3

For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

Even though the Elect by Nature were disobedient, yet even then, Paul never classified them and neither were they ever " The children of disobedience" as per Eph 2:2

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

In the greek the children of disobedience reads "toiv uioiv thv apeiqeiav;:

The definite article makes it clear that these are a definite group of people, they are the vessels of wrath Paul writes on in Rom 9:22. In other words, the children of disobedience will always be the children of disobedience !

The Elect, even though by Nature are children of wrath as others, and walk according to the prince of the power of the air, yet they have already been accepted or Highly Favored in the Beloved Eph 1:6

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Yes, they have that status before God, by Grace, prior to their actual quickening in the Time state Eph 2:5

Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

The difference, the Elect, because of Christ's obedience, they shall be made Righteous ! Rom 5:19 and this is done by their New Birth by the Spirit, which causes their obedience to the Truth 1 Pet 1:2

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Belief of the Truth and obedience are the same !

 

[Brightfame52]

Yes the law of or power of faith. . . believing the things of God not seen it completes grace.

Thats works a denial of grace

 

[Garee]

Thats works a denial of grace

Two kinds of works

The working of Christ's faith or labor or His power to give us his understanding. They are considered the better things that accompany salvation.

He promises he will not forget the good works we can perform according to His "let there be" and "it was good power".(law of faith believing God as Christ not seen

He puts a gold star on the calendar to remind us of His Grace

Hebrews 6:9-10 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak. For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

 

[Brightfame52]

Faith believes on Him that Justifieth the ungodly. That is God given faith receives the Divine Testimony that God Justified His People solely upon Christ's death per Rom 8:33-34, and not on account of any works or conditions performed by men, but while they were being ungodly and enemies in themselves, God was justifying them by the death of His Son ! Also God imputes righteousness to all for whom Christ died or was made sin for 2 Cor 5:21; Rom 5:19 without works, this is testified Rom 4:6

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Now without works means without believing, for believing is a work performed by the mind of man. The word works ergon means:

business, employment, that which any one is occupied

a) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking

2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind

3) an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

So now if God imputes Righteousness because one did believe a testimony, then Rom 4:6 cannot be true ! If God justifies any sinner or accounts them righteous because of believing, then He is responding to good, virtuous dispositions within him the man, which cannot be if He is Justifying the Ungodly. Ungodly means:

destitute of reverential awe towards God, condemning God, impious

For Paul writes 1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

And this fact of accomplishment s received by God given Faith ! 3

 

[Brightfame52]

It is God who Justifies !

Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Now who shall lay anything to the charge[Against] of God's Elect ? It is God that Justifieth [declares righteous]

Quite frankly here, the non charge by God regarding His Elect, is their Justification !

Nothing of the Elect's performance is regarded in the matter. Now who are those whom God will not lay charges against ? Quite frankly it is for all those Christ died, which reasonably means, the charges that should have been laid or charged against them, were laid or charged upon Him, leaving them Justified by God !

God did not lay iniquity upon them, but upon Him Isa 53:6

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid[or charged or to strike] on him the iniquity of us all.

 

[Brightfame52]

Justified by His Grace before the world began !

Rom 3:24

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Titus 3:7

That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.


This Grace by which God's Elect are Justified was given them in Him before the world began 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

So if Grace was given them so early, then Justification by that Grace was given to at the same date !

Also were they accepted in Him at that date ! Eph 1:4-6

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace [Given 2 Tim 1:9], wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. 3

 

[Brightfame52]

What man made religion does not know and understand, but at the same time that Christ was setup as the Surety of the Everlasting Covenant, the transgressions of all He represented, all the Father gave Him, they were charged to Him or imputed to Him, and so at that time they were discharged from all their guilt they would incur and declared Righteous or Justified ! 4

 

[Brightfame52]

When Paul teaches that one is Justified by Faith, Rom 5:1, he does not mean as the false teachers tell us, that one is Justified before God because of our act of faith or of believing, but that God given Faith embraces a Righteousness revealed to it, that was not our own Rom 1:16-17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein[The Gospel of Christ] is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Phil 3:9

9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

The false teachers tells us that God counts their own faith as their Righteousness, which contradicts this very Truth !

 

[Brightfame52]

The ungodly Elect are Justified by the blood of Christ alone before God's bar of Justice, before they know of it and embrace it by Faith, and so Rom 5:1 means that God given Faith has now embraced or received the fact of having been afore time Justified by Christ's Blood Rom 5:9 or His Grace Titus 3:7; 2 Tim 1:9; It is then Faith introduces us into the Grace that we stand Rom 5:2 in before God because of the Blood and Merits of Christ on our behalf !

The NASB is good here for Rom 5:2

through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God.

However the Elect's whole unconverted life was spent under the Justifying blood of Christ, being preserved until being called Jude 1:1

Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

Calling follows being preserved. Paul recognized his preservation until called also by grace Gal 1:15

15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

You see, regardless if we realize it by faith or not, the Blood of Christ has paid the sin debt one owed to God's Law and Justice, that was incurred in Adam and in our own physical persons. You see it is the Blood of Christ that had the Justifying merit before God, not our act of believing it ! Our believing it is only God giving us our own comfort and assurance of it !

 

[Brightfame52]

In the Mind of God !

In the Mind of God , a Person whom Christ died in behalf of is no more Justified after they believe, than they were before they believed, for God's Justification of one does not depend upon the act of man, which believing is, for if we believe not, He remains faithful [to the Covenant with His Son] and that is to Justify by His Blood, all for whom He died and Represented ! 4

 

[Brightfame52]

It is not Faith itself that Justifies the Elect, but God Himself Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

It is He that Imputes Righteousness unto them on behalf of Christ's Work for them, and that is what Faith has at it's view when God reveals this Righteousness Inputed by the Preaching of the Gospel to them Rom 1:16-17, so it is each child of Abraham will as Abraham did, have the Gospel Preached individually to them Gal 3:8

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

By the Spirit's application of it to their minds and hearts, and God given Faith will embrace it and embrace Him that did Justify, God or God through Christ Isa 53:11

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

 

[Garee]

It is not Faith itself that Justifies the Elect, but God Himself Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

The bride of Christ is justified by the faith or Christ labor of love.

Many teach that God does not have or need faith and that it is a human thing .

 

[Brightfame52]

To be Justified by Faith we have Peace with God !

Rom 5:1

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

To be Justified by Faith we have Peace with God : But now Christ is Our Peace with God before We believe Eph 2:14 However ones Peace consciously or knowingly comes through our believing after it is revealed , by the Power of the Holy Spirit Rom 15:13

13 Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

 

[Brightfame52]

Now Being Justified by His Blood !

Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Being rendered Righteous by His Blood. Now what Paul means is that God has imputed Righteousness to everyone Christ has died for, which also ensures they all will be saved from wrath [second death] through Him. No one Christ died shall ever see the Wrath of God ! 1 Thess 1:10

And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

The Fact that Christ was raised from the dead after dying for all those He died for, that fact ensures they all shall be and even are delivered from the Wrath to come ! Rom 4:25 tells us all whom He died, that His resurrection in their behalf evidences their Justification Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for [because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

Thats why Paul says " Now being Justified by His Blood" because the resurrection proved that the Blood did just that ! Isa writes Isa 53:11

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

He Justified many because He bear their iniquties or shed His Blood !

The word Justify in Isa 53:11 is the hebrew word tsadaq and means:


to be just, be righteous

a) (Qal)

1) to have a just cause, be in the right

2) to be justified

3) to be just (of God)

4) to be just, be righteous (in conduct and character)

b) (Niphal) to be put or made right, be justified

c) (Piel) justify, make to appear righteous, make someone righteous

d) (Hiphil)

1) to do or bring justice (in administering law)

2) to declare righteous, justify

3) to justify, vindicate the cause of, save

4) to make righteous, turn to righteousness

e) (Hithpael) to justify oneself

So everyone He died for is declared Righteous, so Imputation has taken Place.

This declaration is before Faith or before we believe, for Christ's Blood was accepted by God In satisfaction for all the sins of everyone He died for over 2000 yrs ago, which means our Justification by Christ's Blood is at least that old ! 4