WHO IS THE RESTRAINER ?

[B-A-C]

Again, yes and no. You are not grasping what a Christian is.

A Christian is sealed. A Christian has entered eternal life. A Christian is united with God. A Christian is only on earth to serve.

I agree, someone is defintely confused here, about what a Christian is.. but no one has eternal life yet. (Well, Jesus does)

Mark 10:30 but that he will receive a hundred times as much now in the present age, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and farms, along with persecutions; and in the age to come, eternal life.
Luke 18:30 who will not receive many times as much at this time and in the age to come, eternal life."

It's not something that has already happened.

Php 3:10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death;
Php 3:11 in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
Php 3:12 Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.
Php 3:13 Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead,
Php 3:14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

As I said.. someone here is confused.

You accuse everyone who disagrees with you as being wrong. You accuse people of avoiding questions when they don't answer like you want them to. Your questions have been answered as directly as possible.. but you refuse to see it.

 

[B-A-C]

The Greek Term: sphragizō

• The verb sphragizō can mean “to seal,” “to mark with a seal,” or “to authenticate.”
• It’s used in contexts like:
  
  • Ownership – marking something as belonging to someone (e.g., a scroll or a signet ring).
  • Security – sealing something to prevent tampering (e.g., Jesus’ tomb in Matthew 27:66).
  • Authentication – confirming legitimacy or authority.

Ephesians 1:13–14 — Two Interpretive Paths

1. “Sealed” (Finality View)

• Implies a completed transaction.
• Suggests believers are already locked into salvation, with eternal life fully secured.
• Often used to support “once saved, always saved” theology.
• Risks flattening the tension Paul expresses elsewhere (e.g., Philippians 3:12–14).

2. “Marked with a Seal” (Promise View)

• Emphasizes identity and future inheritance.
• The Spirit is a down payment (arrabōn)—not the full inheritance.
• Aligns with the idea that believers are marked for redemption, but the full possession is still ahead.
• Preserves the eschatological tension: we belong to God, but we’re still journeying toward resurrection life.

Implications for Theology

Concept	“Sealed”	“Marked with a Seal”
Salvation	Completed	Initiated, awaiting fulfillment
Eternal Life	Already possessed	Promised, not yet attained
Security	Absolute	Assured, but contingent on perseverance
Eschatology	Realized	Already/Not Yet tension preserved
Paul’s Striving (Phil 3)	Incongruent	Perfectly aligned

Why This Matters

• If we say “sealed,” we risk implying that Paul’s striving was unnecessary or symbolic.
• If we say “marked with a seal,” we honor the biblical pattern: promise now, fulfillment later.
• It reframes Christian identity: not as people who have arrived, but as people who are claimed, called, and pressing on.

 

[B-A-C]

Perseverance and the Condition of Finishing

The New Testament repeatedly emphasizes that salvation is not merely about beginning the journey—it’s about finishing it. The language of overcoming, enduring, and counting the cost implies a conditional path toward eternal life.


Key Verses on Endurance and Completion

Matthew 10:22 – “He who endures to the end will be saved.”Matthew 24:13 – “But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.”Luke 9:62 – “No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God.”Luke 14:28–30 – “Count the cost… lest after laying the foundation, he is not able to finish.”Revelation 2:7 – “To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life…”Revelation 3:5 – “He who overcomes will be clothed in white garments, and I will not erase his name from the book of life.”Hebrews 3:14 – “We have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end.”Philippians 3:12–14 – Paul presses on toward the goal, not claiming to have already attained it.

Implications for Theology

Theme	Implication
Endurance	Salvation is contingent on finishing, not just starting
Overcoming	Eternal life is promised to those who overcome
Counting the Cost	Discipleship requires sober commitment, not casual assent
Looking Back	Turning back disqualifies one from kingdom fitness
Paul’s Example	Even the apostle strove toward future resurrection

Theological Summary

• The NT doesn’t teach a passive possession of eternal life—it teaches a race, a fight, a journey.
• The Spirit marks us, but the prize is for those who finish.
• Assurance is real, but it’s tied to perseverance.

 

[Bill]

That’s a pretty wild take, honestly. The idea that God has to “vet” people before offering salvation—as if He’s unsure or unwilling to extend grace unless He’s guaranteed a return—isn’t just foreign to Scripture, it’s foreign to the character of God.


God doesn’t operate like a human HR department, only investing in those with a proven track record. He offers salvation to all, knowing full well that some will reject it, some will fall away, and some will persevere. That’s not a flaw in His judgment—it’s a feature of His love.


Romans 5:8 says, “God demonstrates His own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” That’s not selective grace. That’s universal invitation.


If God only saved those He knew would never fall away, then the countless warnings in Scripture to “stand firm,” “endure to the end,” and “not fall away” would be meaningless. And the grief God expresses over the lost—like Jesus weeping over Jerusalem—would be performative, not genuine.

---

Where Predestination Comes In​

This idea—that God only saves those who will stay saved—is rooted in a Calvinistic view of predestination, where:

• God elects certain individuals for salvation before the foundation of the world.
• Those individuals are irresistibly drawn to salvation.
• And they will persevere to the end—because God ensures it.

So from that perspective, if someone “falls away,” they were never truly saved. And if someone is truly saved, they can’t fall away. That’s the OSAS logic.


But this view requires redefining salvation as something only available to the “elect,” not to all. It also makes God’s love and grace selective, not universal. And it turns the gospel from a genuine offer to all into a kind of secret club for the pre-approved.

---

A More Biblical Picture​

The broader witness of Scripture shows:

• God calls all people to repentance (Acts 17:30).
• Jesus died for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2).
• People can receive the word with joy and later fall away (Luke 8:13).
• Believers are warned to remain in Christ (John 15:6), to not drift away (Hebrews 2:1), and to endure to the end (Matthew 24:13).

God’s foreknowledge doesn’t mean He only offers salvation to those who will “make it.” It means He knows the outcome—but still offers grace, still invites, still loves, and still grieves when people reject Him.


That’s not wasteful. That’s mercy.

I agree with you about the fact that it's a wild concept about God vetting people.

But I've run into that a few times both here and other places in conversation. It's almost as if those who are claiming to be Christian don't feel that God is God anymore. That he has limitations or something, a concept that's completely foreign to me

 

[KingJ]

I agree, someone is defintely confused here, about what a Christian is.. but no one has eternal life yet. (Well, Jesus does)

Mark 10:30 but that he will receive a hundred times as much now in the present age, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and farms, along with persecutions; and in the age to come, eternal life.
Luke 18:30 who will not receive many times as much at this time and in the age to come, eternal life."

It's not something that has already happened.

Php 3:10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death;
Php 3:11 in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
Php 3:12 Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.
Php 3:13 Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead,
Php 3:14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

As I said.. someone here is confused.

You accuse everyone who disagrees with you as being wrong. You accuse people of avoiding questions when they don't answer like you want them to. Your questions have been answered as directly as possible.. but you refuse to see it.

Hi, this discussion is unrelated to the thread. Copying and pasting my response here:

Thread 'So tired of Christians not knowing what a Christian is!'

Oct 29, 2024

This OP consists of:

Section 1 - Venting
Section 2 - Explaining what a Christian is
Section 3 - Concluding argument

Section 1 - Venting:

I am so tired of Christians not knowing what a Christian is! It has been suggested that Judas was a Christian. That a Christian can lose their salvation if they make mistakes just before they die. Or that God cherry picks some humans and makes them Christians.

When these statements are made it is crystal clear to me that A - The individual has no clue as to what a Christian is and B - The individual has no clue as to who God is.

Now, none of...

• KingJ
• Replies: 186
• Forum: Questions about Christianity

 

[Gerbolski]

Back to the restrainer
2Th 2:3
(3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

2Th 2:6
(6) And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

2Th 2:7-8
(7) For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
(8) And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:


The reasons the Thessalonians now knew what was withholding the revealing of the Antichrist via verse 6, is because he just told them in verse 3, how that a falling away had to first happen.

1. so the verse 6 withholder (withheld in a figurative way, in a prophetic way) = the falling away.
2. the mystery of iniquity = the spirit of antichrist.
3. the man of sin = the Antichrist
4. the "he" who now letteth (seems in a prophetic way), that gets taken out of the way, so the Antichrist can be revealed = ???

 

[Dave M]

It does not say who the restrainer is, so maybe God does not want us to know, why does man feel like they have to know everything, is faith in knowing everything?

 

[Gerbolski]

It does not say who the restrainer is, so maybe God does not want us to know, why does man feel like they have to know everything, is faith in knowing everything?

We do not need to know everything, but God does reveal things, and I believe it does show, just taking it one step at a time.

 

[Gerbolski]

I do agree that in certain things, that God has a timing in revealing things, and other things he just reveals, and this is one I believe he has revealed.

I love all of God's word, and he leads us into all truths.