Member
Tell me what you think, and why.
Who is the Harlot, or great city, of Revelation?
Member
The harlot is false religion. We see in the book of Revelation that there are two woman:
One loved and supported by God:
Revelation 12:1 Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars.
And one hated by God
Revelation 17:3 So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast [which was] full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4 The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the filthiness of her fornication. 5 And on her forehead a name [was] written: MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6 I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.
So there is a true faith, true followers of The Messiah Jesus and there are false faiths supported by the beast (worldly satanic powers) One that has kept the true faith and served God and was persecuted because of it. And the other who served satan deceiving the world and was showered with wealth and favors for it.
But in the end times when the Anti-christ comes the beast will have no further need for the harot:
Revelation 17:16 "And the ten horns which you saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot, make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17 "For God has put it into their hearts to fulfill His purpose, to be of one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled.
So the hornes will in the end hate the harlot and destroy her. Because in the end when the anti-christ comes she will have served her purpose and will no longer be needed.
Now who is the harlot?
Let everyone read the Words of Jesus and compare it to the faith they have.
Let the Spirit convict.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
One loved and supported by God:
Revelation 12:1 Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars.
And one hated by God
Revelation 17:3 So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast [which was] full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4 The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the filthiness of her fornication. 5 And on her forehead a name [was] written: MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6 I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.
So there is a true faith, true followers of The Messiah Jesus and there are false faiths supported by the beast (worldly satanic powers) One that has kept the true faith and served God and was persecuted because of it. And the other who served satan deceiving the world and was showered with wealth and favors for it.
But in the end times when the Anti-christ comes the beast will have no further need for the harot:
Revelation 17:16 "And the ten horns which you saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot, make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17 "For God has put it into their hearts to fulfill His purpose, to be of one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled.
So the hornes will in the end hate the harlot and destroy her. Because in the end when the anti-christ comes she will have served her purpose and will no longer be needed.
Now who is the harlot?
Let everyone read the Words of Jesus and compare it to the faith they have.
Let the Spirit convict.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Member
What scriptures did you refer to in order to arrive at these conclusions? What I mean is, where did you go to find precedents from which to interpret these passages?
Member
Well the book of Daniel chapters 7 and 8 give a more detailed description of the beast empire. At the end of chapter 8 it actually describes what the symbols mean. beasts being empires horns being kingdoms and the kings that lead them.
As for the woman the body of Christ the true faithful is referred to symbolically as a caste/ virgin woman on more than one occasion.
2 Cor 11:2
For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present [you as] a chaste virgin to Christ.
Matthew 25:1
"Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.
When Gods people mix their faith with other pagan faiths or does deals with worldly powers they are often referred to be as a woman acting like a harlot.
In Ezekiel chapter 23 (i will not post it) you can read how samaria (Capitol of Israel) and jerusalem(capitol of Judeah), Gods people, are likened to harlots. Actually Ezekial chapter 23 can be seen as a near perfect parallel with the end times harlotry carried out by balaam christians.
Worldly powers:
1 John 5:19 We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.
Matthew 4:8 Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9 And he said to Him, "All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me." 10 Then Jesus said to him, "Away with you, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.' "
John 18:3636Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here."
Revelation 2:26 "And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations
Revelation 18:3"For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich through the abundance of her luxury."
Revelation 19:15
Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Revelation 11:15Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!"
1 John 2:15Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
As for the woman the body of Christ the true faithful is referred to symbolically as a caste/ virgin woman on more than one occasion.
2 Cor 11:2
For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present [you as] a chaste virgin to Christ.
Matthew 25:1
"Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.
When Gods people mix their faith with other pagan faiths or does deals with worldly powers they are often referred to be as a woman acting like a harlot.
In Ezekiel chapter 23 (i will not post it) you can read how samaria (Capitol of Israel) and jerusalem(capitol of Judeah), Gods people, are likened to harlots. Actually Ezekial chapter 23 can be seen as a near perfect parallel with the end times harlotry carried out by balaam christians.
Worldly powers:
1 John 5:19 We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.
Matthew 4:8 Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9 And he said to Him, "All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me." 10 Then Jesus said to him, "Away with you, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.' "
John 18:3636Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here."
Revelation 2:26 "And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations
Revelation 18:3"For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich through the abundance of her luxury."
Revelation 19:15
Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Revelation 11:15Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!"
1 John 2:15Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Member
I've been doing some study lately that suggests the Great Harlot is Jerusalem (and by extension, the unfaithful Israel).
*Consider:
She fills herself with the blood of the prophets and the saints: Rev. 16:6, 17:6, 18:20, 24. Cf. Matt. 23:37 and Acts 7:52.
She is the "Great City...where also the... Lord was crucified" (Rev. 11:8) The designation, "great city" is used both in Ch. 11 and Chs. 17-18 (17:18, 18:10, 16, 19, 21).
The image of the unfaithful wife, the harlot, was often used of Israel in the OT. Israel is repeatedly called the wife of God (Jer. 2:2, 3:14, Is. 54:5). But she was an unfaithful wife (Jer. 3:20, Hos. 1:2, Ez. 6:9, Ez. 16, Is. 50:1) behaving as a prostitute (Jer. 3:1-2). In the context of Jerusalem’s designation as a prostitute, Is. 1:21 is especially noteworthy: "See how the faithful city has become a harlot."
Do you see what I mean?
*(referenced from Outline to Covenent Eschatology http://planetpreterist.com/content-5.html)
*Consider:
She fills herself with the blood of the prophets and the saints: Rev. 16:6, 17:6, 18:20, 24. Cf. Matt. 23:37 and Acts 7:52.
She is the "Great City...where also the... Lord was crucified" (Rev. 11:8) The designation, "great city" is used both in Ch. 11 and Chs. 17-18 (17:18, 18:10, 16, 19, 21).
The image of the unfaithful wife, the harlot, was often used of Israel in the OT. Israel is repeatedly called the wife of God (Jer. 2:2, 3:14, Is. 54:5). But she was an unfaithful wife (Jer. 3:20, Hos. 1:2, Ez. 6:9, Ez. 16, Is. 50:1) behaving as a prostitute (Jer. 3:1-2). In the context of Jerusalem’s designation as a prostitute, Is. 1:21 is especially noteworthy: "See how the faithful city has become a harlot."
Do you see what I mean?
*(referenced from Outline to Covenent Eschatology http://planetpreterist.com/content-5.html)
Member
Yes i see what you mean.
But in saying that Jerusalem may be or will be the center of Babylonian false religion in the end times does not mean it is the harlot in it's entirety. Remember she sits on many waters.
Therefore in the End (just before the return of our Messiah) Jerusalem might become the capitol of false religion. (If indeed it is not the capitol already)?
I think there is a danger. That people may restrict their view of the Harlot to one city or to one nation or to one race. I see danger in that thinking. Do you?
Another observation. Just because one may have the right city identified as the great city of the harlot it does not mean that the city is at the present time the great city. It may become the capitol of false faith at some future date? It may not be now.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
But in saying that Jerusalem may be or will be the center of Babylonian false religion in the end times does not mean it is the harlot in it's entirety. Remember she sits on many waters.
Therefore in the End (just before the return of our Messiah) Jerusalem might become the capitol of false religion. (If indeed it is not the capitol already)?
I think there is a danger. That people may restrict their view of the Harlot to one city or to one nation or to one race. I see danger in that thinking. Do you?
Another observation. Just because one may have the right city identified as the great city of the harlot it does not mean that the city is at the present time the great city. It may become the capitol of false faith at some future date? It may not be now.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Member
I'm not speaking of the city, Adstar, but of the people. The city is sinless, inanimate. God never judged cities, but people. Jerusalem was the capital (the mother; Luke 13:34-35) of the nation of Israel, the former chosen people.
Babylon, why would God choose Babylon for reference in Revelation? I don't think the literal city has anything to do with it, but a symbol of Jerusalem, the apostate Israel.
Israel was the nation that spilled the blood of the prophets, killed the saints, and was cursed with the righteous blood spilled from the beginning of the establishment of the holy nation.
I don't where your finding the precedent in scripture to identify the Harlot as a general form evil across all the earth. Can you clarify for me? Also, why do you take Babylon to be a literal city?
One note about Babylon: God said it would be perpetually desolate. (Isaiah 13:19-22, 14:22-23; Jeremiah 50:13, 39, 51:37) Also, Babylon is used fugratively in 1 Peter, indicating that they were referring to a city of the time in which some first-century Christians were dwelling.
The record of Christ's life is pervaded with prophecies against Israel as a nation. Where is the precedent that suggests that the Harlot is an ambiguous reestablishment of a perpetually dead nation, rather than the very subject of New Testament prophetic doom?
(Examples of the prophecies to which I refer)
Matthew 12:36-47
Matthew 21:33-46
Matthew 22:1-14
Matthew 23:29-36, 37-39
Mark 12:1-12
Luke 11:47-51
Luke 13:1-9, 34-35
Luke 19:11-27, 41-44
Luke 20:9-19
Posted by Adstar:
"I think there is a danger. That people may restrict their view of the Harlot to one city or to one nation or to one race. I see danger in that thinking. Do you?"
I don’t. Do the scriptures warn us against that? I do, with all due respect, see danger in your own thinking, however. You see danger in thinking that the Harlot is one nation or race. Doesn't this bias you against what may be a truthful contradiction of your interpretation of scripture, unless you can provide ample scriptural evidence that it is correct?
I see the object of scriptural study not to find what the scriptures do not refute, but what they actively support. What scriptural support is there that the Harlot is anything but what is described of Israel in the New Testament (including Revelation).
I don't see from where this theory comes except by taking Revelation to be autonomous from the rest of the New Testament (for which there is no sound argument).
These always come out longer than I intend. I hope I don't bore you.
God bless,
Bill
Babylon, why would God choose Babylon for reference in Revelation? I don't think the literal city has anything to do with it, but a symbol of Jerusalem, the apostate Israel.
Israel was the nation that spilled the blood of the prophets, killed the saints, and was cursed with the righteous blood spilled from the beginning of the establishment of the holy nation.
I don't where your finding the precedent in scripture to identify the Harlot as a general form evil across all the earth. Can you clarify for me? Also, why do you take Babylon to be a literal city?
One note about Babylon: God said it would be perpetually desolate. (Isaiah 13:19-22, 14:22-23; Jeremiah 50:13, 39, 51:37) Also, Babylon is used fugratively in 1 Peter, indicating that they were referring to a city of the time in which some first-century Christians were dwelling.
The record of Christ's life is pervaded with prophecies against Israel as a nation. Where is the precedent that suggests that the Harlot is an ambiguous reestablishment of a perpetually dead nation, rather than the very subject of New Testament prophetic doom?
(Examples of the prophecies to which I refer)
Matthew 12:36-47
Matthew 21:33-46
Matthew 22:1-14
Matthew 23:29-36, 37-39
Mark 12:1-12
Luke 11:47-51
Luke 13:1-9, 34-35
Luke 19:11-27, 41-44
Luke 20:9-19
Posted by Adstar:
"I think there is a danger. That people may restrict their view of the Harlot to one city or to one nation or to one race. I see danger in that thinking. Do you?"
I don’t. Do the scriptures warn us against that? I do, with all due respect, see danger in your own thinking, however. You see danger in thinking that the Harlot is one nation or race. Doesn't this bias you against what may be a truthful contradiction of your interpretation of scripture, unless you can provide ample scriptural evidence that it is correct?
I see the object of scriptural study not to find what the scriptures do not refute, but what they actively support. What scriptural support is there that the Harlot is anything but what is described of Israel in the New Testament (including Revelation).
I don't see from where this theory comes except by taking Revelation to be autonomous from the rest of the New Testament (for which there is no sound argument).
These always come out longer than I intend. I hope I don't bore you.
God bless,
Bill
Member
I guess I bored everyone away from the topic....or something.
Last edited:
Member
Protestants generally are not critical of their old mother cult.
And Jews (& anti-Christ of all stripes) WANT all to think the Great Harlot was/is the Church.
Its real Christians who tell the truth about the Great Harlot of Rome.
The Vatican fulfillment of Rev 17&18 is God-given confirmation of the truth of Jesus Christ.
The Fulfillment reveals that such as the Inquisitions were not Christian activities,
but rather Papist activities. People need to know this
Though many modern alleged "Christians" are oblivious to and/or deny the following fulfillment, many others have seen the fulfillment for centuries.
It was a main battle-cry of the Reformation era Protestants and was common knowledge in Protestant circles until a few decades ago [as Protestantism lost it’s salty savor/corrupted].
One presents EVIDENCE in order to convince. Prophecy fulfillment is EVIDENCE.
Servants of Jesus seek to convince all that the NT is true, and Jesus is Lord.
Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto His servants ..." Rev 1:1
Servants of Jesus see the Vatican's perfect, unique, visible and verifiable fulfillment
of the Revelation's ch 17&18 description of the Great Harlot Mother is highly significant,
precious God-given EVIDENCE confirming the truth of the NT and Lordship of Jesus
Seeing the Vatican for what it is in the sight of Jesus sheds great light on past, present and future.
The following is a correlation of some of the Revelations descriptions,
and unique fulfillment found in well known facts re: the Vatican.
From chapters 17 & 18 …. IFO = IN FULFILLMENT OF
Rev 17:2 '.....with whom the kings of the earth committed immorality....'.
IFO 17:2 - Immoral ties of the Vatican with earthly rulers are presently and historically verifiable.
Rev 17:4 '.....and the woman was clothed in purple and scarlet...'.
IFO 17:4 - Find a picture of the Cardinals in full costume.
Rev 17:5 '.....Babylon the Great, the mother of harlots....'.
IFO 17:5 - The Vatican calls herself the 'mother' 'church' because the denominations
came out of her. The denominations share her perversion.
Rev 17:6 '.....drunk with the blood of saints...'.
IFO 17:6 - Study the inquisitions. A policy of murder & torture of real people,
carried out openly over centuries. Inspired and directed by men who claim to be
the unique and direct representatives of Jesus Christ.
Rev 17:9 '.....seven hills on which the woman sits....'.
IFO 17:9 - Rome is uniquely famous for its seven hills.
NO OTHER city nearly as famously nicknamed “city of 7 hills” as Rome has been since before NT was written.
For centuries the consensus of Roman Catholic and non-RC commentators was that Rome was the Revelation "city of 7 hills" ...
just RC commentators claimed it meant pre-Papal Rome. [many still claim this]
Naturally with a billion Papist in the world, the truth regarding the Great *****
is oft disputed and RCs are happy to claim the “city of 7 hills” is any city other than Rome.
Rev 17:15 '.....The waters which you saw where the woman sits, are peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues....'.
IFO 17:15 - The worldwide influence of the Vatican is obvious.
Rev 17:18 '.....and the woman you saw is the great city which reigns over the kings of the earth...'.
IFO 17:18 -The popes long ruled openly over the kings of the known world. Every king knew that if he bucked the papacy,
then the pope would - could - did encourage the citizens to revolt. This principle is still in practice today.
Rev 18:4 '.....voice from heaven saying: Come out of her MY people...'.
IFO 18:4 - Some R.C.'s belong to Jesus and will come out.
[they will also come out of the denominations] This is happening now, and has happened before.
Rev 18:12-19 ....describes the great wealth of the Great Harlot.
IFO 18:12-19- Vatican's financial assets [open & hidden] are enormous.
The Revelation says there is a great harlot in the city of 7 hills. Lo and behold, there is.
Most commentators place the writing of the Revelation at around 90AD, well before the Vatican existed.
This visible and verifiable fulfillment is God-given evidence confirming the truth of Jesus Christ.
"Come out of her MY people..." [Rev.18:4]
Seeing the fulfillment is a faith strengthening blessing. Being in denial is not.
Seeing the Vatican for what it is in the sight of Jesus sheds great light on past, present and future.
en.wikipedia.org
And Jews (& anti-Christ of all stripes) WANT all to think the Great Harlot was/is the Church.
Its real Christians who tell the truth about the Great Harlot of Rome.
The Vatican fulfillment of Rev 17&18 is God-given confirmation of the truth of Jesus Christ.
The Fulfillment reveals that such as the Inquisitions were not Christian activities,
but rather Papist activities. People need to know this
Though many modern alleged "Christians" are oblivious to and/or deny the following fulfillment, many others have seen the fulfillment for centuries.
It was a main battle-cry of the Reformation era Protestants and was common knowledge in Protestant circles until a few decades ago [as Protestantism lost it’s salty savor/corrupted].
One presents EVIDENCE in order to convince. Prophecy fulfillment is EVIDENCE.
Servants of Jesus seek to convince all that the NT is true, and Jesus is Lord.
Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto His servants ..." Rev 1:1
Servants of Jesus see the Vatican's perfect, unique, visible and verifiable fulfillment
of the Revelation's ch 17&18 description of the Great Harlot Mother is highly significant,
precious God-given EVIDENCE confirming the truth of the NT and Lordship of Jesus
Seeing the Vatican for what it is in the sight of Jesus sheds great light on past, present and future.
The following is a correlation of some of the Revelations descriptions,
and unique fulfillment found in well known facts re: the Vatican.
From chapters 17 & 18 …. IFO = IN FULFILLMENT OF
Rev 17:2 '.....with whom the kings of the earth committed immorality....'.
IFO 17:2 - Immoral ties of the Vatican with earthly rulers are presently and historically verifiable.
Rev 17:4 '.....and the woman was clothed in purple and scarlet...'.
IFO 17:4 - Find a picture of the Cardinals in full costume.
Rev 17:5 '.....Babylon the Great, the mother of harlots....'.
IFO 17:5 - The Vatican calls herself the 'mother' 'church' because the denominations
came out of her. The denominations share her perversion.
Rev 17:6 '.....drunk with the blood of saints...'.
IFO 17:6 - Study the inquisitions. A policy of murder & torture of real people,
carried out openly over centuries. Inspired and directed by men who claim to be
the unique and direct representatives of Jesus Christ.
Rev 17:9 '.....seven hills on which the woman sits....'.
IFO 17:9 - Rome is uniquely famous for its seven hills.
NO OTHER city nearly as famously nicknamed “city of 7 hills” as Rome has been since before NT was written.
For centuries the consensus of Roman Catholic and non-RC commentators was that Rome was the Revelation "city of 7 hills" ...
just RC commentators claimed it meant pre-Papal Rome. [many still claim this]
Naturally with a billion Papist in the world, the truth regarding the Great *****
is oft disputed and RCs are happy to claim the “city of 7 hills” is any city other than Rome.
Rev 17:15 '.....The waters which you saw where the woman sits, are peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues....'.
IFO 17:15 - The worldwide influence of the Vatican is obvious.
Rev 17:18 '.....and the woman you saw is the great city which reigns over the kings of the earth...'.
IFO 17:18 -The popes long ruled openly over the kings of the known world. Every king knew that if he bucked the papacy,
then the pope would - could - did encourage the citizens to revolt. This principle is still in practice today.
Rev 18:4 '.....voice from heaven saying: Come out of her MY people...'.
IFO 18:4 - Some R.C.'s belong to Jesus and will come out.
[they will also come out of the denominations] This is happening now, and has happened before.
Rev 18:12-19 ....describes the great wealth of the Great Harlot.
IFO 18:12-19- Vatican's financial assets [open & hidden] are enormous.
The Revelation says there is a great harlot in the city of 7 hills. Lo and behold, there is.
Most commentators place the writing of the Revelation at around 90AD, well before the Vatican existed.
This visible and verifiable fulfillment is God-given evidence confirming the truth of Jesus Christ.
"Come out of her MY people..." [Rev.18:4]
Seeing the fulfillment is a faith strengthening blessing. Being in denial is not.
Seeing the Vatican for what it is in the sight of Jesus sheds great light on past, present and future.