Who change the "Sabbath" with justification, did The Anti-christ?
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PloughBoy
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I never said that! "And, you're right -- no one has ever told anyone To worship on Sunday." I said: Man is the one who "made Sunday a day of worshipping "God". I see you do not understand the difference between the words: "Rest from the word "Worship". those are two completely different words: You might do a word study on the two words.
You keep talking about worship. like "The Church" has become your "idol god" and you totally worship it above The True GOD and the day "Sunday" has become you god as well and you worship it too. This might not seem clear to you, but very clear it seems to me. you feel more strongly concerning church and the Sunday" Than God or Jesus. I wish you had more passion in language for them, like you have for the other 2.
God made the "7th day" a Rest day not a worship day! This is clear by his decree in OT. Just because the Israel made it a worship day and abuse it in all kind of ways. did not make it right. This why people claim they have read their bibles from back to front on many occasions but they still not not understand this plain picture. God did not say, not one time in the Bible as far as i can see gave orders to worship on the 7th day of the week.
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PloughBoy
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"We should observe the seventh day of the week (Saturday), from even to even, as the Sabbath of the Lord our God. Evening is at sunset when day ends and another day begins. No other day has ever been sanctified as the day of rest. The Sabbath Day begins at sundown on Friday and ends at sundown on Saturday".
God has never or Jesus has never "Nullified" "The Sabbath Day" a rest from all your labors! the body is supposed, not to work! You are supposed to stay at home and rest and talk about God unto your families! No going to churches or temples! Stay at home and give honor to GOD! you and your family!
Do not plough your fields! do not wash your clothes, do not clean your windows, or go to a "Market" or shopping of any kind! And women no hair dressers! Sit your pretty self down, and look good for your husband! and husband no sport game watching , you watch that wife God gave you! And wife you sit on his lap and rub that bald head of his! And maybe God would throw some "StarDust" your way! and Happy is the man! that honors the 7th day of the week! For he will be bless! Because God has bless it! If you honor it! For God does not lie! a 7th day rest is a blessing and not a curse!
God has never or Jesus has never "Nullified" "The Sabbath Day" a rest from all your labors! the body is supposed, not to work! You are supposed to stay at home and rest and talk about God unto your families! No going to churches or temples! Stay at home and give honor to GOD! you and your family!
Do not plough your fields! do not wash your clothes, do not clean your windows, or go to a "Market" or shopping of any kind! And women no hair dressers! Sit your pretty self down, and look good for your husband! and husband no sport game watching , you watch that wife God gave you! And wife you sit on his lap and rub that bald head of his! And maybe God would throw some "StarDust" your way! and Happy is the man! that honors the 7th day of the week! For he will be bless! Because God has bless it! If you honor it! For God does not lie! a 7th day rest is a blessing and not a curse!
Back in that day -- the men gathered together at the city gate to discuss politics , religion, etc. So are we to follow that example Now? Are there city gates for men To sit at? No.
You have a very interesting concept of what you would be doing on the Sabbath.
You Might want to look again at the Missionary journeys in the New Testament. The men went from area to area -- those seven churches of Asia were established. And then there were overseers established to help guide the local believers.
You have a very interesting concept of what you would be doing on the Sabbath.
You Might want to look again at the Missionary journeys in the New Testament. The men went from area to area -- those seven churches of Asia were established. And then there were overseers established to help guide the local believers.
PloughBoy
Loyal
Well let mankind keep following man. I am going to follow God. "I have a guide and a Shepherd" Sinner's need a Guide of a Human to guide them. I got The Son of God., His name is Jesus and I have another "Advocate". who is The "Holy Spirit" If I have Jesus, why would I think about following a common man for. Only the ones who do not have Jesus needs a human. because if they know Him, why would they need another.
Yes the "7 churches of Asia", And God was not please with them. You see what happen to them. God kept His Word. Now where are they?
How do you think we have the book Of Corinthians 1:2 "To the church of God which is at Corinth , to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus , called to be saints ....." Does that really sound like a man-made situation.
Every church is made up of People -- just like you and me. Sinners who are saved by God's grace.
Or Ephesians or Collosians or Phillipians, etc. they are From - the result Of those missionary journeys of Pauls and Barnabas.
Well -- as long as it's People going to church , there are going to be problems of one sort or another -- sort of the result of being humans.
Yes, we Do have God's Word -- what Are we doing with it?!
Every church is made up of People -- just like you and me. Sinners who are saved by God's grace.
Or Ephesians or Collosians or Phillipians, etc. they are From - the result Of those missionary journeys of Pauls and Barnabas.
Well -- as long as it's People going to church , there are going to be problems of one sort or another -- sort of the result of being humans.
Yes, we Do have God's Word -- what Are we doing with it?!
Brad Huber
Loyal
Those churches were never bldgs made of brick, wood, or stone. Those were the people of that area, that gathered together. Even if they dispersed due to persecution, or to spread the gospel, they are still of that church, like a sub unit of the the main body of believers. Now of course there were those who fell away back to the lifestyle of those completely out of the will of God. These are the ones that are no longer "churches of asia", the meeting places of those churches, with a placard above the door in large letters stating, THE CHURCH OF CORINTH, OF THE FIRST CENTURY AFTER THE ASCENSION OF JESUS. You are right that there are no churches like that in those locations, but to say they no longer exists would take supernatural knowledge of what happened to ALL the members who were part of that church, up to the time they were no longer there in the open.
PloughBoy
Loyal
Sue said: How do you think we have the book Of Corinthians 1:2?
Simple; Paul had heard about all the problems The new converts where having in the "City of Corint". There was no guide lines on how to live the "New Christian faith" There was "No New Testament" writtings, They only had The "Old Testament" manuscript", which Jesus taught out of. So after Paul had heard about the problems He wrote a "epistle" addressing their problems and how they should conduct themselves in the "assembly" of "believers in Christ". He wrote one letter, Then on another Occassion, he had to write another, And as time went on when he wrote to one church he would alway say, or direct them to pass it on or make copies to pass to another city. And as the years went on, pretty soon, there was a collection of Letters [epistles] that we have called "books" of The New Testament a total "collection" of 27 books and '13 or 14' letters written by "Paul" for "The Body of Believers" the "Born of God" for This was His mission as well. "Jesus said: He is my chosen vessel". The early "body of Believers" only had the "Old Testament" writings. There was no "New Testament" Manuscript". They only had a few letters and as years went by it became a collection.
I think it was almost 400 years before we got the "Canon of Scriture"! The Books of the New Tesstament compile". Then "John Wycliffe" wrote the 1st english translation in 1300's There is a lot to be said about that translation. But not here.
I know the history of the New testament writings. in the New testament writings that make up the "New Testament" they are so far apart. 10 years apart 20 years apart, 40 years apart, 60 years apart, 90 years apart. There are over 2,000 "new testament writings, They had to be separated and eliminated. to created "The Canon of Holy Scripture" to arrived at the 27 books of "New Testament" that has been deem "without error".
When i got "saved' and filled with the "Holy Spirit" I did not trust no one especially "preachers and Deacons" and church people! And I wanted to know this "Bible" and every word in it. And How we Got it! And i got busy, The books back then where to expensives to buy. So i would go to the "Main Public Libraary" in the "Biblical Reference enclosed section" and got busy! I was not going to believe in a book, that I did not know how we got it. And after a while I found out, Just like "William Tyndale found out", and what "John Hus", John Knox, Martin Luther, John Calvin, all found out. And what a whole lot, had not found out!
And I love "The Word of GOD" with all of my mind, my soul, my strength and all that is in me!
I learned about the cities and the culture of Those cities at that time of the beginings of the "New Testament" era and the development of the movement as It travel alone "the road that The Romans had made" Called the "Roman Road"! and also the "Culture and the knowledge of how God had use "Alexander the Great" A Greek, at a early age of 20 set on the throne and by the age 30 created one the largest empire of the ancient world and instituted the :Greek" language! The Language of "The New Testament"!
So in saying this: I do understand, I did reseach in my mid-20's! before I went to "bible College", I trusted no body! especially concerning Religion and God knew it. I told him, "God if you are real you got to reveal yourself to me! For I trust no man! And He did! "Just like Paul on the Road to Damascus" I saw "HIM" with a crown of thorns around His head and bleeding, and He called me by my name! and said He died for me! "I saw Him, I heard Him, he called my Name! And then it Happen, "My heart crack open" "The Power of The Holy Ghost" burst into my soul" "I never been the same" and have told the story for over "43 years"! And the fire in my bosom is still aflame! Many has tried to put it out, both "christain and sinner"! But we know it cannot be put out! The Flame might seem to burn low sometime, then without notice! out of nowhere, "He lets us know, we are His"!
This message is not to dis-courage you but to encourage you! And must also take notice: "public school system was not available and not mandatory and most people could not read In "American". A type of School system did not start until maybe 1600's , And that was establish by "The Purtians" purpose was to learn how to read the Bible and the text book was the Bible and American "Independence" was not until the "late 1770"s". [and you had to own land before you could vote and you had to belong to a church. By saying this, in earlier periods" "How could they hear, without someone to tell them" they sure cannot read. And still even up into the early 20 century, there was still a lot of People that could not read. Many will say, today that many cannot read, I think a lot can read, but it is what they want to read and they sure do not want to read the "Bible" they just want the church to speak to them. And they chose which one they like according to what they want to hear! In 1820 it is documented: that only 12% of the world wide world could read or write. They needed a proclaimer! But today as of 2015 only 14% of the world cannot read or write. The other 86% can read a "bible" if it is in their language.
Good News Translation
But how can they call to him for help if they have not believed? And how can they believe if they have not heard the message? And how can they hear if the message is not proclaimed? (Romans 14:12).
[ But how can they call on Jesus for help if they have not believed in Him? And how can they believe in Him if they not heard of Him or read about Him? And how can they know what the message is, unless someone proclaim it to them, about something they have never heard about, nor read about. The message has to be proclaim to them, and someone has to be sent to them to proclaim the message. ] The Greek word "Apostle" means:
An apostle (/əˈpɒsəl/), in its most literal sense, is an emissary, from Greek ἀπόστολος (apóstolos), literally "one who is sent off", from the verb ἀποστέλλειν (apostéllein), "to send off".[1] The purpose of such sending off is usually to convey a message, and thus "messenger" is a common alternative translation; other common translations include "ambassador" and "envoy".[1]
Do anyone remember the year we got paper to write on, and how expensive it was. Even "Papyrus" was not cheap and must ancient bibical people had to use a "Amanuensis" to write letters for them.
Sorry guys: you know I am kinda long winded. yes I do know why "letters' was written to the "New Testament" believers in "Cities". And must of the times in "secrecies". clear up into "the Reformation era and even into this day, you will lose your life by having a Bible or quoting "Holy Scripture" by a child or a adult.
PloughBoy
Loyal
Only for edification only.
What Happened to the Seven Churches of Revelation?
Jesus had warnings and encouragements for the Seven Churches in the book of Revelation. What happened to those churches and are there believers there today?
www.imb.org
Sue D.
re: "So now you're suggesting that you have an insightfulness on that subject?"
You didn't address your post to anyone, but if it is intended for me, to what specific subject are you referring?
re: "You can always read those passages yourself to see what they Do say."
You said that "...actually it's Also in Matthew 28:1 - 7...Also Mark 16:2 // Luke 24:1 // John 20:1".
Well, let's see:
Matthew 28:1-7 - "In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. 2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it. 3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow: 4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men. 5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified. 6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay. 7 And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you. "
Nothing is said as to when the resurrection occurred.
Mark 16:2 - "And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun."
Nothing is said as to when the resurrection occurred.
Luke 24:1 - "Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them."
Nothing is said as to when the resurrection occurred.
John 20:1 - "The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre."
Nothing is said as to when the resurrection occurred.
So why do you think those 10 verses say that the resurrection took place on the 1st day of the week?
re: "We Do know that the bodily resurrection did take place. On the 3rd day. After the Sabboth -- on the 1st day of the week..."
But only Mark 16:9 as it is translated in the KJV and similar versions say that it occurred on the 1st day of the week.
re: "What more do You want?"
For the purpose of my initial comment to you - nothing. I was merely pointing out your erroneous statement.
re: "Maybe you Don't want Jesus Christ to Be the Son of God?"
What??? What the heck have I written that would cause you to ask such a question?
e: "or you want the resurrection to occur on the Sabbath?"
Actually, I think the better case can be made for a 1st day of the week resurrection. But again, what have I written that would make you think otherwise?
re: "So now you're suggesting that you have an insightfulness on that subject?"
You didn't address your post to anyone, but if it is intended for me, to what specific subject are you referring?
re: "You can always read those passages yourself to see what they Do say."
You said that "...actually it's Also in Matthew 28:1 - 7...Also Mark 16:2 // Luke 24:1 // John 20:1".
Well, let's see:
Matthew 28:1-7 - "In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. 2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it. 3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow: 4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men. 5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified. 6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay. 7 And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you. "
Nothing is said as to when the resurrection occurred.
Mark 16:2 - "And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun."
Nothing is said as to when the resurrection occurred.
Luke 24:1 - "Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them."
Nothing is said as to when the resurrection occurred.
John 20:1 - "The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre."
Nothing is said as to when the resurrection occurred.
So why do you think those 10 verses say that the resurrection took place on the 1st day of the week?
re: "We Do know that the bodily resurrection did take place. On the 3rd day. After the Sabboth -- on the 1st day of the week..."
But only Mark 16:9 as it is translated in the KJV and similar versions say that it occurred on the 1st day of the week.
re: "What more do You want?"
For the purpose of my initial comment to you - nothing. I was merely pointing out your erroneous statement.
re: "Maybe you Don't want Jesus Christ to Be the Son of God?"
What??? What the heck have I written that would cause you to ask such a question?
e: "or you want the resurrection to occur on the Sabbath?"
Actually, I think the better case can be made for a 1st day of the week resurrection. But again, what have I written that would make you think otherwise?
@rstrats -- you've just picked up this same dialogue at "Figures of speech/ colloquialisms -- which I just responded back to you There.
Looking at the Matthew 28 passage -- the context of the 1st verse "Now after the Sabbath , as the first day of the week began to dawn " and then we read who came to see the tomb. The context is referring To the resurrection.
The Mark passage -- Again - "very early in the morning, on the 1st day of the week ,they came to the tomb when the sun had risen." and were surprised that the stone had been rolled away from the door of the tomb. Go to vs 6 ".... you seek Jesus of Nazareth , who was crucified, He is risen. He is not here . See the place where they laid Him. You simply have to read farther into the passage.
In Luke's passage a person has to go to verse 6 "He is not here, He is risen"
And passage from John -- the time and place Of ...... the context Of is relating to the bodily resurrection. vs 8 -- they saw His handkerchief and the linen clothes. They Had been around the body but the body was Gone.
Because Scripture says so.
You simply weren't looking far enough into the passages -- nothing to do with my statements.
Your comments in both these threads suggests that you're trying to find a reason to doubt the bodily resurrection. And That is what proved that Jesus is indeed the Son of God.
You keep on wanting Proof that's very clear to see in Scripture. Which Could suggest that you're trying to find loop-holes in Scripture.
So -- Now -- apparently we have That cleared up in two threads of discussion?!
Looking at the Matthew 28 passage -- the context of the 1st verse "Now after the Sabbath , as the first day of the week began to dawn " and then we read who came to see the tomb. The context is referring To the resurrection.
The Mark passage -- Again - "very early in the morning, on the 1st day of the week ,they came to the tomb when the sun had risen." and were surprised that the stone had been rolled away from the door of the tomb. Go to vs 6 ".... you seek Jesus of Nazareth , who was crucified, He is risen. He is not here . See the place where they laid Him. You simply have to read farther into the passage.
In Luke's passage a person has to go to verse 6 "He is not here, He is risen"
And passage from John -- the time and place Of ...... the context Of is relating to the bodily resurrection. vs 8 -- they saw His handkerchief and the linen clothes. They Had been around the body but the body was Gone.
Because Scripture says so.
You simply weren't looking far enough into the passages -- nothing to do with my statements.
Your comments in both these threads suggests that you're trying to find a reason to doubt the bodily resurrection. And That is what proved that Jesus is indeed the Son of God.
You keep on wanting Proof that's very clear to see in Scripture. Which Could suggest that you're trying to find loop-holes in Scripture.
So -- Now -- apparently we have That cleared up in two threads of discussion?!
Sue D.,
re: "...you've just picked up this same dialogue at "Figures of speech/ colloquialisms -- which I just responded back to you There."
This topic - which by the way has been off topic almost from the beginning - has absolutely nothing to do with the other one.
re: "Looking at the Matthew 28 passage -- the context of the 1st verse 'Now after the Sabbath , as the first day of the week began to dawn' and then we read who came to see the tomb. The context is referring To the resurrection."
Indeed it is. But nowhere in the chapter is the day of the resurrection given. You said that it is.
re: "The Mark passage -- Again - 'very early in the morning, on the 1st day of the week ,they came to the tomb when the sun had risen." and were surprised that the stone had been rolled away from the door of the tomb. Go to vs 6 ".... you seek Jesus of Nazareth , who was crucified, He is risen. He is not here . See the place where they laid Him. You simply have to read farther into the passage."
And again, no where in verses 1-6 is the day of the resurrection given.
re: "In Luke's passage a person has to go to verse 6 'He is not here, He is risen'."
But it doesn't say when.
re: "And passage from John -- the time and place Of ...... the context Of is relating to the bodily resurrection. vs 8 -- they saw His handkerchief and the linen clothes. They Had been around the body but the body was Gone."
But it doesn't say when it became gone.
re: "You simply weren't looking far enough into the passages -- nothing to do with my statements."
My original comment to you had everything to do with your statement that "...actually it's Also in Matthew 28:1 - 7...Also Mark 16:2 // Luke 24:1 // John 20:1". It isn't in those verses nor is it any of those chapters.
re: "Your comments in both these threads suggests that you're trying to find a reason to doubt the bodily resurrection."
Again, what have I written which causes you to say that?
re: "...you've just picked up this same dialogue at "Figures of speech/ colloquialisms -- which I just responded back to you There."
This topic - which by the way has been off topic almost from the beginning - has absolutely nothing to do with the other one.
re: "Looking at the Matthew 28 passage -- the context of the 1st verse 'Now after the Sabbath , as the first day of the week began to dawn' and then we read who came to see the tomb. The context is referring To the resurrection."
Indeed it is. But nowhere in the chapter is the day of the resurrection given. You said that it is.
re: "The Mark passage -- Again - 'very early in the morning, on the 1st day of the week ,they came to the tomb when the sun had risen." and were surprised that the stone had been rolled away from the door of the tomb. Go to vs 6 ".... you seek Jesus of Nazareth , who was crucified, He is risen. He is not here . See the place where they laid Him. You simply have to read farther into the passage."
And again, no where in verses 1-6 is the day of the resurrection given.
re: "In Luke's passage a person has to go to verse 6 'He is not here, He is risen'."
But it doesn't say when.
re: "And passage from John -- the time and place Of ...... the context Of is relating to the bodily resurrection. vs 8 -- they saw His handkerchief and the linen clothes. They Had been around the body but the body was Gone."
But it doesn't say when it became gone.
re: "You simply weren't looking far enough into the passages -- nothing to do with my statements."
My original comment to you had everything to do with your statement that "...actually it's Also in Matthew 28:1 - 7...Also Mark 16:2 // Luke 24:1 // John 20:1". It isn't in those verses nor is it any of those chapters.
re: "Your comments in both these threads suggests that you're trying to find a reason to doubt the bodily resurrection."
Again, what have I written which causes you to say that?
PloughBoy
Loyal
Article Library | Sabbath Truth
Articles answering your basic questions about the Sabbath such as 'When is it?', 'What is it?', 'Has it been changed?', etc
PloughBoy
Loyal
Article Library | Sabbath Truth
Articles answering your basic questions about the Sabbath such as 'When is it?', 'What is it?', 'Has it been changed?', etc
I clicked into your second video -- a very simple reason for worshiping God on 1st day of the week/ Sunday. Because it's honoring the day that Jesus Christ rose from the dead. He conquered death. He proved He was the Son of God. He provided our salvation.
Those who feel led to worship on Sabbath -- by all means do so -- but please don't find fault with Sunday worshipers. And don't equate it with being a 'good work' on the part of Sabbath keepers. It's impossible to keep all the Ten Commandments all the time -- because then a person could run into the sin of 'pridefulness'.
Those who feel led to worship on Sabbath -- by all means do so -- but please don't find fault with Sunday worshipers. And don't equate it with being a 'good work' on the part of Sabbath keepers. It's impossible to keep all the Ten Commandments all the time -- because then a person could run into the sin of 'pridefulness'.
PloughBoy
Loyal
Remember the 7th day of the week and keep it Holy for that is The Day our GOD rested from creating the earth. God Bless that day before there was any kind of Laws but God told man the day he eats from that tree he told him not to eat from he would die. And that 7th day is still bless and God made 7 days to make up a week. And the last day of the week is still the 7th day and on that day God made it for a "Rest day" and he didn't change it. He is the same yesterday, today and for evermore. There is nowhere in the Bible where he said HE change the "Rest Day". Now a person can choose anyday he pleases to worship God! God never limited a worship day God never said He bless the 1st day of the week like he bless the 7th day. But GOD did declare Sunday to be a Work Day! On 6 days you shall work but the 7 day you shall rest.
God said you work on: Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday until Sundown, and then The 7th day rest begins until Sundown the next day, now you can go to work! Early Sunday morning You are all happy, well rested, cheery, body restored by the blessing that GOD place on that day, The earth is somewhat refresh like a fresh spring day after a late night rain or early dew wash. Even the morning coffee smell fresher! Who could resist a blessing like that? Answer: MAN!
God said you work on: Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday until Sundown, and then The 7th day rest begins until Sundown the next day, now you can go to work! Early Sunday morning You are all happy, well rested, cheery, body restored by the blessing that GOD place on that day, The earth is somewhat refresh like a fresh spring day after a late night rain or early dew wash. Even the morning coffee smell fresher! Who could resist a blessing like that? Answer: MAN!
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