Who are the seven churches? - I need to know!

[JosephLove]

I'm not a Bible scholar, nor do I know the entire Bible from cover-to-end, but I do however like to think I know the Bible pretty well. However, when it comes to the seven churches in Revelation (chapters 2 and 3), I am totally lost. I have no clue who or what the seven churches are.

I realize the seven churches were seven real churches that existed in Asia Minor during the early New Testament era. But do they still hold a message for us, today? Do they represent seven types of churches that can be found today? Or do they represent seven different ages of God's true church that can be tracked through history books?

I am lead to believe they represent seven different church ages. Ephesus is the first era, because Simon Peter tested Simon Pater (Simon Magus from Acts 8:9-24) and found the apostle to be a liar. This fulfills Ephesus prophecy. Many mistake Simon Peter as the first pope, but it was actually Simon Pater who was the first pope.

I learned the above information from David C. Pack, the pastor over the Restored Church of God. Mr. Pack teaches the church he pastors is the seventh and final church era of God's one true church. Could this be true?
The Restored Church of God is a splinter church from the Worldwide Church of God, whom Herbert W. Armstrong was pastor over. Armstrong's influence on Christian forums is phenomenal! Anytime you see someone say things like, "The Plain Truth about,..." or "The Real Truth about,..." you can bet they have been reading Mr. Armstrong's books.

Not being judgmental to this site, (maybe I am wrong) but I see lots of Mr. Armstrong's influences creeping onto the forums. "When is someone born again? What is the true gospel? Who is the true Jesus? Should we keep the Sabbath? Do the saved go to heaven? God's holy days or pagan holidays?" - all these things were preached by Mr. Armstrong, and they are still continuing to be taught online through pastors like David C. Pack. Again, not saying everyone who believes these ideas got them from the Church of God splinter churches, but I am willing to guess some people at least did. (As I know I have certainly learned a lot from pastors like Mr. Pack.)

But anyways, back to the the seven churches. Can someone tell me who they are? I am considering joining the Restored Church of God, as Mr. Pack's argument for who the seven churches are is quite good. (You can go the Restored Church of God's main website to read his book, "Where is the True Church?" for free online.)

The reason I really need to know, is because joining a church like the Restored Church of God would completely change my life. God has given me two complete chapters on the seven churches, and sadly I have no clue who the churches are. I really need to know! Can anyone please help me out?

Thank you for taking the time read all of this!
God bless you all!~
-Joseph

 

[jari]

each of the churches has an angel. which should be same as pastor as the word can be translated to either one.
so i'm pretty sure they we're real churches who either do not exist anymore or at least the pastor (angel) has changed.

in bible the apostoles wrote many letters to churches and i think the one's in revelation are similar churches.

i haven't done any historical study of it though.

 

[jari]

i don't think the churches it self can really exist today as the people has passed away
and as people change the faith change and so does beliefs and doctrines.

we have bible though so the church you should be looking for is biblical spirit filled church.

 

[Brother Mike]

Jari.

What Jari said........

The Churches are long gone. They were located in Asia Minor, Modern day Turkey.

 

[LostSheep]

Herbert Armstrong Cult Leader

Armstrong was a deluded cult leader who didn't even believe in the salvation in Jesus Christ. You better avoid his teachings and his apostate followers like "Pastor Pack". They will split Hell wide open on the way down. You have been warned ... take heed.

Google his name and his "church". You will find he was a drunkard,a liar and a false prophet ... "by their fruits you will know them"


My friend find yourself a good bible believing Baptist church that teaches sound and biblical doctrine like salvation by faith in Jesus Christ. I will pray for you.

 

[Brother Mike]

I listend to about an hour of his teaching.

The seven churches are long gone so no connection there.

I listened to David for about an hour, and all I heard was him putting down other denominations. Pentecostals, were attacked the most, but he did make his rounds to the others.

He does not believe in Eternal Hell, He does not believe in the Trinity which might be a sacred cow being killed for some.

His constant affirmation about his Church being the one out of millions as being right though did not set well with me. That brother has a wrong spirit about him.

It's not being right all the time that counts, its the Heart, and spirit your speaking from, and I did not sense any anointing teaching on this man, and sensed a very wrong spirit about him.

This is my personal opinion, and I am not the judge.

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[B-A-C]

While these were real churches of the period, and no doubt God was speaking to them at the time, I tend to think the 7 seven churches are an allegory to the churches of today. I think probably every church in the world is one of these 7 churches. Interestingly enough, there were only 2 of the 7 that he didn't have anything against.

 

[faithfulservant]

Those seven churches are models of the kinds of problems churches down the centuries, right up until today, have had/are having. That's why those messages are in the Book of Revelation. It's relevant right until the end of the age. Jesus is calling His Church to repentance before He returns.

You can easily plug several modern church denominations into those positions. The Laodicean church includes churches the Pentecostals that push the prosperity gospel or the affluent Evangelical mega-churches that assume since they've got so much they must be in right standing with God.

The Church of Thyatira clearly describes what has become of the Catholic church.

The Church of Ephesus? Perhaps the Baptists who have become spiritually dead and are going through the motions.

Study the descriptions. Is your church there? Those letters are very, very relevant today.

 

[JosephLove]

Those seven churches are models of the kinds of problems churches down the centuries, right up until today, have had/are having. That's why those messages are in the Book of Revelation. It's relevant right until the end of the age. Jesus is calling His Church to repentance before He returns.

You can easily plug several modern church denominations into those positions. The Laodicean church includes churches the Pentecostals that push the prosperity gospel or the affluent Evangelical mega-churches that assume since they've got so much they must be in right standing with God.

The Church of Thyatira clearly describes what has become of the Catholic church.

The Church of Ephesus? Perhaps the Baptists who have become spiritually dead and are going through the motions.

Study the descriptions. Is your church there? Those letters are very, very relevant today.

Thanks to everyone who replied to this thread!
Ok, how about the Philadelphia church? Would they be the Jehovah Witnesses? After all, they are the church that would not deny God's name; Jehovah. Right?

Would Smyrna be the missionary church?

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Yahweh is actually the proper Hebrew name.
יְהֹוָה=Yhvh,these are silent letters so God's name is technically unpronounceable.

The pronunciation Jehovah was unknown until 1520, when it was introduced by Galatinus; but it was contested by Le Mercier, J. Drusius, and L. Capellus, as against grammatical and historical propriety.

I think denying God's name means something else.

 

[Brother Mike]

How to get this across.

Ok, how about the Philadelphia church? Would they be the Jehovah Witnesses? After all, they are the church that would not deny God's name; Jehovah. Right?

I am not sure how to make this more clear.

The seven Churches sat in Western Anatolia, which is Asia Minor. Philadelphia sat between Sardis (North) and Laodicea (South) The Letters John wrote on a small Island SW of Ephesus where instructions to those Churches at that time from the Lord.

Jesus said, "Write a scroll of what you see, send it to the Seven Churches."

Rev 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos,..........................

Those Churches are Long gone brother, and no Church today can be one of those seven Churches. There is absolutely no scripture that supports that.

Any remaining Christian Activity ceased in 1923 after the Treaty of Lausanne.

Jesus said to Philadelphia (Love of the brothers, brotherly love) that you can escape the hour of trial that is to come on the Whole earth.

Well, nothing yet has effected the Whole earth YET, it will though. So, the letter were left in Revelation for all Churches today I believe to compare themselves, and fix what needs fixed. Jesus may have been giving instruction to the end time body of Christ as a whole, not a denomination.

Any other belief pinpointing certain churches to the seven that have long been gone to a denominational Church today is in Error, and has no scriptural support to back it.

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[B-A-C]

Thanks to everyone who replied to this thread!
Ok, how about the Philadelphia church? Would they be the Jehovah Witnesses? After all, they are the church that would not deny God's name; Jehovah. Right?

Would Smyrna be the missionary church?

Hmmm... Jehovah's Witnesses are generally classified as a cult by the main stream.

They don't believe in the trinity, they don't believe Jesus is God.
They don't believe that Jesus came back to life from the resurrection in the flesh. ( 1 John 4:1-4 )
They attribute much of their doctrine from the watchtower society. In fact in their view, it is more valid than the Bible. (It should be, they made it!
While not sin specifically, they don't celebrate birthdays or most holidays. (Easter and Christmas for example).

I would hope that the churches of Philadelphia and Smyrna are the prevalent churches in the world today. We all like to think our church is one of these two.

I don't think any of these churches denominationally affiliated with a specific church of today (possible exception the Roman Catholic church and the Nicolations)... I didn't mean to infer that any of these churches was (i.e. the first Pentecostal church, or the first Baptist church, etc..) but rather all churches today, no matter what denomination they are, tend to have similar problems.

 

[faithfulservant]

Thanks to everyone who replied to this thread!
Ok, how about the Philadelphia church? Would they be the Jehovah Witnesses? After all, they are the church that would not deny God's name; Jehovah. Right?

Would Smyrna be the missionary church?

If we want to know the truth about what a scripture means, we shouldn't be too casual. Jehovah's Witnesses preach another gospel. These letters are to His churches. If they deny Jesus, He will deny them. The JW won't be found in the seven letters.

 

[faithfulservant]

I am not sure how to make this more clear.

The seven Churches sat in Western Anatolia, which is Asia Minor. Philadelphia sat between Sardis (North) and Laodicea (South) The Letters John wrote on a small Island SW of Ephesus where instructions to those Churches at that time from the Lord.

Jesus said, "Write a scroll of what you see, send it to the Seven Churches."

Rev 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos,..........................

Those Churches are Long gone brother, and no Church today can be one of those seven Churches. There is absolutely no scripture that supports that.

Any remaining Christian Activity ceased in 1923 after the Treaty of Lausanne.

Jesus said to Philadelphia (Love of the brothers, brotherly love) that you can escape the hour of trial that is to come on the Whole earth.

Well, nothing yet has effected the Whole earth YET, it will though. So, the letter were left in Revelation for all Churches today I believe to compare themselves, and fix what needs fixed. Jesus may have been giving instruction to the end time body of Christ as a whole, not a denomination.

Any other belief pinpointing certain churches to the seven that have long been gone to a denominational Church today is in Error, and has no scriptural support to back it.

Jesus Is Lord.

Not so, brother. This letter clearly states to hold on until the end of the age, when Jesus will begin His Millenial Kingdom (emphasis mine):

Revelation 2:24-28
24 But to the rest of you in Thyatira, who do not hold this teaching, who have not learned what some call the deep things of Satan, to you I say, I do not lay on you any other burden. 25 Only hold fast what you have until I come.26 The one who conquers and who keeps my works until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations, 27 and he will rule them with a rod of iron, as when earthen pots are broken in pieces, even as I myself have received authority from my Father. 28 And I will give him the morning star.

There is absolutely no doubt the letters are there to warn churches until the end from problems the church age would have throughout.

 

[B-A-C]

I am not sure how to make this more clear.

Any remaining Christian Activity ceased in 1923 after the Treaty of Lausanne.

Jesus Is Lord.

This is sad news indeed. I would hope there is some Christian activity remaining in the world, otherwise you and I are lost brother.

I would add that I personally know some Turkish missionaries, and at least one Christian radio station that broadcasts the Gospel to Turkey. Greece has a large Christian population and has had Christians since the time of the apostles.

 

[njbeliever]

Dear JosephLove,
Along with analyzing my response and the response of others remember that only God can and must explain the scriptures to you intellectually and also in that deep manner personal manner where it becomes unmovable faith. (Luke 24:45, Romans 10:17).

The order of change should be : 1) the individual, 2) the congregation 3) the entire body of Christ. We begin with self examination and fortification of ourselves(Matt 7:3-5) and then collectively(John 13:35) as a congregation and then all believers. We must be changed then we can affect change on others (2 Cor 1:4).

Likewise the warnings of the "church" can be applied to the individual, a specific church, a congregation and sections of the body of Christ. An individual believer should not be lukewarm in the faith (Rev 3:16) for example.

I would caution immutable conclusions of the churches in Rev to specific denominations. Salvation is by grace alone (Ephesians 2:8-9). Because no one is good (Luke 18:19).I'm not condoning blatant error, Paul never did (Gal 1:6-9). But there shouldn't be any gossiping, only prayer for those that they may move from just works to a deep heart change or that they may just come into fuller truth.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

The order of change should be : 1) the individual, 2) the congregation 3) the entire body of Christ. We begin with self examination and fortification of ourselves(Matt 7:3-5) and then collectively(John 13:35) as a congregation and then all believers. We must be changed then we can affect change on others (2 Cor 1:4).

Likewise the warnings of the "church" can be applied to the individual, a specific church, a congregation and sections of the body of Christ. An individual believer should not be lukewarm in the faith (Rev 3:16) for example.

That makes the most sense,scripture shows us patterns and cycles and cycles of patterns and patterns of cycles.
Like the temple,an outer court an inner court and a Most Holy.
Coming in to the kingdom we walk from the outer court to the inner and on to the Most Holy so that the Lord may go out from the Most holy into the inner and out to the outer to eventually affect the whole world though us.

The seven stars,angels and churches could be 7 patterns that happen to individuals,then families or congregations and then to the entire body.

 

[Dorothyh]

The Seven Churches Of Revelation

It is my belief that each church represents a period of time for the church. It makes sense to me because the book of Revalation deals with Prophecy. We are now living in the Laodacia Church Age. There is a show called "Drive Thru History". They had a whole series of episodes on the seven cities of Turkey where those seven churches were. Great show.
As far as who is the true church goes this I know. Anyone who believes Jesus died for their sins and asks to be forgiven. Those who repent and invite Jesus to be the Lord of their life will be saved. They are the true church.
There are a lot of cults now days. We should read the Bible ourselves instead of allowing others to tell us what it says. Pray and ask God for understanding. He will give it to you.