WHEN DOES THE END TIMES BEGIN, OR HAVE THEY BEGUN ALREADY

[Brother-Paul]

SIGN 9 of 10 predicted by Jesus

THE SEIGE & DESTRUCTION JERUSALEM

Matt 24:15-22 predicts the siege and the destruction of Jerusalem, was fulfilled from A.D. 66 to 70.

Now there is a little more to this prediction, understandably, here is part...

Jesus mentions five developments regarding the destruction of the Temple.

WE KNOW WHAT JESUS PREDICTED, HERE ARE A FEW OPTIONS, WE WILL ALL HAVE OUR VIEWS, WE MUST KEEP AN OPEN MIND, AS WE HAVE SO FAR SEEN THE PREVIOUS PREDICTIONS WERE CARRIED OUT IN THE FIRST CENTURY, JESUS DIDN'T SAY ALL WOULD BE CARRIED OUT IN THE FIRST CENTURY, BUT WE CAN BE 100% CERTAIN ALL WILL BE ACCOMPLISHED AS HE PREDICTED.

The reference to “desolating sacrilege” (bdelygma tēs erēmōseōs; rsv, nrsv) or “abomination of desolation” (kjv, nasb, net, esv; see niv “the abomination that causes desolation”) predicts an event that ritually pollutes the temple in Jerusalem.

In Matthews Gospel, Jesus explicitly alludes to Daniel 8:13, Dan 9:27, Dan 11:31, Dan 12:11

The prophecy of Dan 11:31 was fulfilled when Antiochus IV Epiphanes desecrated the temple in Jerusalem by erecting an altar for pagan sacrifices in 168 B.C, which stood in the temple for three years.

Interestingly, the author of 1 Maccabees 1:54 describes this altar with the same expression (bdelygma erēmōseōs).

Because Daniel’s prophecy was fulfilled in the past, the readers are alerted to the fact that they need to “understand” Matt 24:15

This suggests that something will happen that “is in recognizable continuity with the devastating pollution set up by Antiochus, but just what form it will take is left to the imagination.”

Jesus’ prophecy must refer to the temple that he and his disciples see as they sit on the Mount of Olives Matt 24:3.

The view that Jesus predicts an event shortly before the end (in this latter day period) is impossible if we assume that Jesus’ prophecy in Matthew 24 was given to the disciples in the spring of A.D. 33 and meant to be understood by the disciples.

Some relate the prophecy to the order given by Emperor Gaius Caligula in A.D. 40 to set up a statue of himself in the temple in Jerusalem, an order that caused disturbances among the Jews.

This plan was averted only because Gaius was assassinated in A.D. 41.

Others relate the prophecy to the events of A.D. 67–68 when the Zealots took over the temple “with polluted feet,” setting up their headquarters in the temple and murdering people in the temple precincts.

Others relate Jesus’ prediction to the events of A.D. 70 when Roman troops broke through to the temple mount, setting up their idolatrous standards and sacrificing to them (by then it would have been too late to flee from Jerusalem).

In Luke, the prophecy of the desolation is linked with “Jerusalem being surrounded by armies” Luke 21:20 and thus seems to link the pollution (abomination) with the military standards of the Roman army.

 

[Brother-Paul]

The Signs of the End - 10 of 10 SIGNS

Sign 10

Matt 24:23-25
Predicts the coming of messianic claimants and of false prophets who perform miracles and who intend to deceive Jesus’ followers with predictions of Jesus’ return

Following after SIGN-1, which predicted messianic pretenders,

and SIGN-6, which predicted false prophets,

SIGN-10 speaks both of both messianic claimants and false prophets.

This prophecy appears to assume a wider reference than interpreters allow who restrict the prediction to the last years or months of the crisis in Jerusalem between A.D. 66 and 70.

The adverb of time (the Greek term tote) at the beginning of Matt 24:23, translated as “then” or “at that time,” does not have to be restricted to the period described immediately before
Matthew 24:15-22, the siege of Jerusalem, but generally “introduces that which follows in time” and can thus indeed describe a subsequent phase of the end-time events.

As previously stated, many of Jesus' prediction in these 10 SIGNS have been fulfilled in the first century, he predicted them in the end times, with no other time given. What is clear is
- the end times was in the first century, Hebrews 1:2 and 1 Peter 1:20 very clearly quote in these end times, in these last times, therefore the end times are now almost 2000 years long.

We are still in the 'End Times', but we are in the 'Latter Days' of the end time, we are in the period Jesus describes as the birth pang period, not the end yet, but as we know the birth pangs come at the end of a pregnancy.

God is on the last page, the end is near, Christ's Return is imminent, how can we be sure?

1948 Israel became a state again, the prophesy of them returning had started to be fulfilled. I view this period as the key to the latter days, the Jews had to be in the final picture.

What is more in 1970's the Messianic Jews was formed, it took all those years for some Jews to find their promised Messiah, and their numbers grow daily, Praise the Lord.

Now the fact that 8 of the 10 SIGNS Jesus mentioned were fulfilled in the first century, does not mean we will see more of them, in fact we probably are, and that is why many think the end times is now. The end time started when Jesus predicted, we are still in the end times, but we are in the latter days.

Yes, we can still say, there are wars and rumours of wars, earthquakes, pestilences, raging waters, hardening of hearts, disobedience, lack of respect, man going with man and woman with woman, a form of Godliness without its attributes, people being lovers of themselves and not of God.

The raging waters, UK has had more floods since the ones I quoted yesterday, they are worldwide, we see millions of hectares of forest burning down across the world, the ground is being scorched. It is all happening before our very eyes.

Put aside end time thoughts, the end time, though we are in it is close to 2000 years now, we are in the 'Latter Days' and time is very short. O Come Lord Jesus.

One additional thought pinpointing the time period we are in at this time, scripture says Christians will be hated, abused and martyred, lets not forget this is the period we are now in. Scripture tells us God will protect the saved, but we must note, not from the items above we are told we will suffer, no, no, he will save our salvation, we can still expect abuse and to be martyred.

These are exciting times, but we must be ready and on our guard at all times, the spiritual battle is and will intensify minute by minute, we wrestle not with flesh and blood, it is all down to principalities and powers, the battle is not ours, the battle is won.

Credit for some of the details provided, from a book I recommend, called;
40 Questions about the End Times. Schnabel, Eckhard J.

 

[Dave M]

we are currently in the end of end times now !!

 

[Brother-Paul]

we are currently in the end of end times now !!

True Dave, we are in the latter days of the end times. We been in the end times for close to 2000 years.

 

[Brother-Paul]

I know what i am talking about , go read your "Bible" from Front to back about 10 more times in 30 days and then come back and tell me, what do you think. And if the LIGHT comes on. That is "kindergarten" "Last days" and one of the times pay attention to the COVENANTS as you read from from to back.

My dear brother, I say this in love.

You are mature in your knowledge of The Word, but you are far from mature as a teacher of The Word.

A mature teacher would encourage questions and would give others time to reply. Not always answering immediately.

Your excitement is to be admired, I remember when I came to faith I was similar, at a Bible study I would reply and reply, I knew the answer, the vicar was trying to simmer me down, give the others a chance. On one occasion, it was a gun en, I knew what we needed was faith, 3 times I said, Faith, yet no one else knew the answer, I couldn't believe something so clear way not known. Looking back it was clear, they were not born again, they were kuriakon goers.

When the vicar said let's lookb at thr following scripture, if it wasn't one of the four Gospels they didn't know where to look. The vicar said, it is always clear who reads their Bible.

That was 30 years ago brother, I was like a sponge when it came to The Word, still am, it is life, but at timesxwe have to back off a little and let others come forward, trouble is on a forum like this, I have found, as soon as you humble yourself and let others come forward, it is not the milk and semi sids that come forward it is the rush of bisons.

No disrespect to anyone just rambling on a bit

 

[Gregoryp]

I see the rise of the one world (satanic) government, I see the covid19 hoax pandemic as an excuse to destroy capitalism and replace it with communism, the one world religion is well and truly on its way. Sin is now rampant and out in the open, especially the abomination of homosexuality. I see uncaring selfish people everywhere in society. I see lovers of the world, and not lovers of the creator. Heck they wont even acknowledge they were created by a higher power! This is surely the birth pangs and its going to get much worse. Now some countries have hate speech legislation, so if you call out someones sin, more than likely you will be arrested for disturbing the peace.

 

[PloughBoy]

If you want to get truly serious about the Biblical text. please do not feed us the "Regurgitation" that you Fed off from, and then spit it back up and compelled us to come and eat again.
But, do the right Thing, and Do your own "Interpretation" of The "TRUE WORDS of GOD" from "The ORIGINAL COPIED MANUSCRIPT" Either "TEXTUS RECEPTUS' OR either "CODEX SINAITICUS" for"transliterated" words ain't going to get it. And without "VINES" dictionary of "New TESTAMENT Words. And The "Englishmen Greek Concordance" Plus a Greek Lexicon, that is a must for even the well learn. And if a person has no formal learning in Biblical Koine Greek. It is foolish to play around with such words. I don't care how many copies and posts one may do.
To the "Novice" it may seem that person knows WHAT THEY Are doing. But to the learn, and the skilled into "Biblical Truth" that person is a "deceiver". by projecting a "Portrait" that is not "Rightly True".

When you was 1st. "Born form ABOVE" you should stay in that calling.

Berean Study Bible
Each one should remain in the situation he was in when he was called.

Did GOD call you to instruct "Leaders" in Christ 25 -40 years ago when you got saved and received the HOLY GHOST, and are you still in that calling?

 

[Brother-Paul]

I see the rise of the one world (satanic) government, I see the covid19 hoax pandemic as an excuse to destroy capitalism and replace it with communism, the one world religion is well and truly on its way. Sin is now rampant and out in the open, especially the abomination of homosexuality. I see uncaring selfish people everywhere in society. I see lovers of the world, and not lovers of the creator. Heck they wont even acknowledge they were created by a higher power! This is surely the birth pangs and its going to get much worse. Now some countries have hate speech legislation, so if you call out someones sin, more than likely you will be arrested for disturbing the peace.

All these things and more are evident today, clear to see, I agree with most of what you say but not all, but we respect each others opinions.

Covid 19, I do not see what you see, to me it is another Pestilence, and as we are told there will be, there is, an increase in pestilences in these times.

Hate speech is another debate, there are many angles to this. Jesus kills it in one blow, love one another as I have loved you, no hate there my friend. Hate comes from the devil, hate speech is therefore also caused by the devil, there is a lot of hate in the world, hardening of hearts, children disobedient to their parents, killing, wars and rumours of wars, etc, etc. But there is also a lot of hate in the churches (kuriakons) from the saved as well as the lost in these places of worship.

All these things and so many others we have all previously discussed confirm the time of the birth pangs, the latter day birth pangs of the end times.

Shalom

 

[Brother-Paul]

When you was 1st. "Born form ABOVE" you should stay in that calling.

Berean Study Bible
Each one should remain in the situation he was in when he was called.

John Newton summed it up beautifully


Amazing grace! How sweet the sound
That saved a wretch like me!
I once was lost, but now am found;
Was blind, but now I see.

’Twas grace that taught my heart to fear,
And grace my fears relieved;
How precious did that grace appear
The hour I first believed.

Through many dangers, toils, and snares,
I have already come;
’Tis grace hath brought me safe thus far,
And grace will lead me home.

The Lord has promised good to me,
His Word my hope secures;
He will my Shield and Portion be,
As long as life endures.

Yea, when this flesh and heart shall fail,
And mortal life shall cease,
I shall possess, within the veil,
A life of joy and peace.

The earth shall soon dissolve like snow,
The sun forbear to shine;
But God, who called me here below,
Will be forever mine.

When we’ve been there ten thousand years,
Bright shining as the sun,
We’ve no less days to sing God’s praise
Than when we’d first begun.


Amazing Grace from where John Newton wrote the hymn

 

[Born Again 2004]

WHEN DOES THE END TIMES BEGIN, OR HAVE THEY BEGUN ALREADY

Many speak of End Times as now, the period we are living in, and as a result look for the signs Jesus gave in the current day, but is that really correct?

Part of the way we look at these things could be due to the fact that we are born into a time slot. We see the here and now, we consider the past influenced by what we see now and where we live in the world, we look to the future with a present understanding of the past which we haven’t seen.

What are our thoughts on the ‘End Times’ are they in the past, are they present, or are they in the future’?

What does scripture actually tell us? (More than one interpretation so let’s look at the following together)


JOEL’s PROPHESY SAYS

JOEL 2:30-32

30 “And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth: Blood and fire and pillars of smoke.

31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood,

Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD.

32 And it shall come to pass

That whoever calls on the name of the LORD

Shall be saved.

For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be deliverance,

As the LORD has said,

Among the remnant whom the LORD calls.


FAST FORWARD TO WHAT PETER STATED ON THE DAY OF PENTECOST?

ACTS 2:16-21

16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:

17 ‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,

That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;

Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,

Your young men shall see visions,

Your old men shall dream dreams.

18 And on My menservants and on My maidservants

I will pour out My Spirit in those days;

And they shall prophesy.

19 I will show wonders in heaven above

And signs in the earth beneath:

Blood and fire and vapor of smoke.

20 The sun shall be turned into darkness,

And the moon into blood,

Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD.

21 And it shall come to pass

That whoever calls on the name of the LORD

Shall be saved.’

Past or future? Let’s stick with the past.

After clarifying for the Jews who had gathered from around the world that the speaking in unlearned languages by Jesus’ followers is not the result of drunkenness (Acts 2:15), Peter asserts that the phenomena of the sound from heaven, the tongues of fire, and the speaking in unlearnt languages (Acts 2:1-4) constitutes the fulfillment of Joel’s prophecy.

Peter provides a long quotation from the prophet Joel that begins with,

“In the last days it will be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams” (Acts 2:17, quoting Joel 2:28).

The rest of the Joel quotation and Peter’s explanation shows that Peter links the beginning of the last days not merely with the coming of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost but with the entire ministry of Jesus, which includes the giving of the Spirit and the proclamation of salvation for all those who call on the name of the Lord

(Acts 2:21, quoting Joel 2:32).

The content of Joel 2:30-32, which Peter regards as fulfilled, is used to explain more than just the Pentecost phenomena.

NOTE: “in the last days” (en tais eschatais hēmerais) in Acts 2:17

IS AN ADDITION to the text of Joel, who begins this particular prophecy with the phrase “and afterward.”

Peter clarifies that what follows in Joel’s prophecy relates to the last days of God’s history of salvation: the end times as the new age that was ushered in by Jesus.

Joel’s prophecy of “wonders and signs” was fulfilled in the miracles that Jesus performed, which were signs of the coming of the kingdom of God and of his role in this kingdom.

Joel’s prophecy was fulfilled in the events of Jesus’ death, notably in the darkening of the sun, mentioned in Acts 2:20.

The sequence of “wonders” in the sky followed by “signs” on earth corresponds to Luke’s account of the darkening of the sun at the time of Jesus’ crucifixion

(Luke 23:45a),

a “wonder” in the sky, followed by the rending of the curtain in the temple

(Luke 23:45b),

a sign that took place on earth.

The earthquake that Matthew 27:51 reports for the day of Jesus’ crucifixion—a sign on the earth—is not mentioned by Luke in Acts 2, but it would have been remembered by the people living in Jerusalem at the time.

Joel’s reference to “wonders in the sky above and signs on the earth below” (Acts 2:19)

Does not introduce a comment on the LAST DAY OF JUDGMENT. The DAY OF JUDGMENT was, for Peter, a FUTURE EVENT that was not “fulfilled” in his day.

Peter links all of Joel 2:28-32, quoted in Acts 2:17-21, with the assertion in Acts 2:16 that “this is what was spoken through the prophet Joel.” Peter only wanted to quote a prophecy that he believed was fulfilled by the phenomena that he wants to explain to the crowd, judgment was to come at the end of the end times.

Both Peter and Luke understood the “wonders and signs” performed by Jesus, as well as the events associated with Jesus’ crucifixion and ascension and the events of Pentecost as representing varying degrees of fulfillment of Joel’s prophecy.

Joel speaks of the last days that have begun with Jesus and that will culminate in God’s judgment. The reference to the “last days” establishes how Peter reads the prophets:

God has begun to fulfill his promises; the last days have arrived with Jesus’ ministry, death, resurrection, and ascension, and his bestowal of the Spirit.

In Romans 13:11-12, Paul appeals to the Christians in the city of Rome, to understand “the present time” and explains that “the hour has already come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed.”

Paul clearly believes that Jesus’ return is the next event in God’s plan.

And this means that he is convinced that he lives in the last days and that the end times have begun.

(Continuing… )

They began before the foundation of the world!

 

[Brother-Paul]

They began before the foundation of the world!

We are talking here about when the 'end times' were quoted in scripture, the reason being some think the 'end times' have started now.

We are in the 'latter days' of the 'end times', the birth pang period as prophesied by Jesus.

The 'end times' started in the first century, before the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in AD 70.

There are in effect two end times!

The first is the 'end times' for the Jews, their period ended when Christ, their promised Messiah was born in Bethlehem in Judea.

The second 'end time', the one we are talking of here, is the end of the Gentile period, the period up to Christ's Return in Glory. This 'end time' period is fast approaching 2000 years.

 

[Born Again 2004]

We are talking here about when the 'end times' were quoted in scripture, the reason being some think the 'end times' have started now.

We are in the 'latter days' of the 'end times', the birth pang period as prophesied by Jesus.

The 'end times' started in the first century, before the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in AD 70.

There are in effect two end times!

The first is the 'end times' for the Jews, their period ended when Christ, their promised Messiah was born in Bethlehem in Judea.

The second 'end time', the one we are talking of here, is the end of the Gentile period, the period up to Christ's Return in Glory. This 'end time' period is fast approaching 2000 years.

Like I said, everything began before the foundation, even scriptute!

 

[Brother-Paul]

Like I said, everything began before the foundation, even scriptute!

We understand that brother, no disagreement here.

But, when Jesus spoke about the 'end times', he was referring to the ekklesia era, not the Jewish era, he was referring to the period when salvation was made possible to the gentiles in all the world, not just the Jews.

The 'end times' that Jesus referred to included the warnings, the destruction of the Temple AD70, the latter days birth pangs and more.

The reason for this discussion is because there are many who thing the end times has just begun. The 'end times' Jesus referred to is fast approaching 2000 years.

 

[Born Again 2004]

We understand that brother, no disagreement here.

But, when Jesus spoke about the 'end times', he was referring to the ekklesia era, not the Jewish era, he was referring to the period when salvation was made possible to the gentiles in all the world, not just the Jews.

The 'end times' that Jesus referred to included the warnings, the destruction of the Temple AD70, the latter days birth pangs and more.

The reason for this discussion is because there are many who thing the end times has just begun. The 'end times' Jesus referred to is fast approaching 2000 years.

They have begun or they haven't begun , Brother!
Like I said and again, all this was created by God before the foundation!!

This reveals His ultimate power!

So ,though what might be current and admiral, how important is it for us to debate that, because the All Mighty has already determined it.

It is not our job for us to discuss and preach the Gospel and His salvation so we are better prepared for His End Times?

 

[Brother-Paul]

It is not our job for us to discuss and preach the Gospel and His salvation so we are better prepared for His End Times

Is this the gospel according to @Born Again 2004 ?

Correction my friend, it is our job to discuss and preach the Gospel, to share the Good News of salvation, to share what Jesus did, to share what Jesus promises, to share God's will for mankind.

We need to be, as the early Christians were, waiting in eager anticipation for our Lord's Return in Glory. Many expected Jesus to return on their lifetime, we should except the same.

Christ is coming, He is coming, any day, any night, any hour, any minute. Preach it, believe it, preach it, expect it, preach it, he is just waiting for those wonderful words from our Father in heaven, 'Go get your Bride son'

 

[Born Again 2004]

Is this the gospel according to @Born Again 2004 ?

Correction my friend, it is our job to discuss and preach the Gospel, to share the Good News of salvation, to share what Jesus did, to share what Jesus promises, to share God's will for mankind.

We need to be, as the early Christians were, waiting in eager anticipation for our Lord's Return in Glory. Many expected Jesus to return on their lifetime, we should except the same.

Christ is coming, He is coming, any day, any night, any hour, any minute. Preach it, believe it, preach it, expect it, preach it, he is just waiting for those wonderful words from our Father in heaven, 'Go get your Bride son'

I thought I just said all that!?
No, it is NOT my Gospel.

Maybe it is just me, but you come across as a Know-It- All Antagonist!

 

[Brother-Paul]

I thought I just said all that!?
No, it is NOT my Gospel.

Maybe it is just me, but you come across as a Know-It- All Antagonist!

Where on earth has that come from?

I felt you were trying to make a point that was not in context to the time being discussed in the thread. Repeating the same point seemed to add emphasis to your reply, hence the clarification of the end times, from the time if Jesus, and as stated the reason was to make clear when the end times began because many think it is now. It is now, but didn't start recently, that was the point.

I apologise if what I said came over in a way that was never intended.

Shalom

 

[Born Again 2004]

Where on earth has that come from?

I felt you were trying to make a point that was not in context to the time being discussed in the thread. Repeating the same point seemed to add emphasis to your reply, hence the clarification of the end times, from the time if Jesus, and as stated the reason was to make clear when the end times began because many think it is now. It is now, but didn't start recently, that was the point.

I apologise if what I said came over in a way that was never intended.

Shalom

You seem to always come over as one that nows best and then ,always apologetic ..
..I accept the apology but not your continued M.O.!
.

 

[Brother-Paul]

You seem to always come over as one that nows best and then ,always apologetic ..
..I accept the apology but not your continued M.O.!
.

This is not so, there are many times I have held my hand up, there will no doubt be more in the future we ate human. Sorry you see it that way.

May I wish you a happy birthday for tomorrow @Born Again 2004

 

[Br. Bear]

What we all need to remember is to not devour one another

When the Lord Himself returns what will we be saying?
Thinking?
Writing?
Doing?

A time to be born
A time to die
No man knows

What will we be doing and how
And should that Day be now
Even our attitude to this is known
To Him to Whom
Every knee shall bow

Post in Peace

Jesus is Lord


Bless you ....><>