Loyal
For the purpose of this thread, I am talking about both physical and spiritual life.
Let me define that a little further and say when does spirit come into existance?
There are verses like ....
Eph 1:4; just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love
Rev 13:8; All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.
Some people take these to mean our souls existed before the world was created. However there are several verses that would conflict with that line of thought.
For in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. He eventually got around to creating Adam. Yet Jesus was the firstborn of all creation.
Col 1:15; He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
That means no man existed or was created before Jesus. God existed before the universes was created (that includes Jesus). But it finally was created, Jesus was "the firstborn" of it.
So what does that mean?
It means we didn't exist before the world was created. How can I be so sure?
1 Cor 15:44; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
1 Cor 15:45; So also it is written, "The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
1 Cor 15:46; However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual.
1 Cor 15:47; The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven.
1 Cor 15:48; As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly.
1 Cor 15:49; Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly.
The natural body comes first. If there was never a physical body, then there was never a spiritual body. Our spirit doesn't exist before our body does.
There is of course one major exception to this. More about that in a moment.
So then what about these verses like...
Rev 17:8; "The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction. And those who dwell on the earth, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was and is not and will come.
There are two different explanations, both are pretty straightforward.
I know a couple that wants to have a baby some day. But not yet. They have already picked out names and written them down. One for a boy, and one for a girl.
So just because a name is written down, doesn't mean they exist yet.
The other thought here is... "from the foundation of the world, can mean "since" the foundation of the world. In other words, your name doesn't written until you get saved.
It wasn't written before the foundation of the world, it was written since the world was founded.
In either case, just because your name may already be written doesn't mean you exist yet.
So then who is this one exception who existed before they had a physical body? Jesus of course.
John 6:38; "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
Jesus said He came down from heaven. No other man can make that claim. I suppose it could be argued Satan was cast out of heaven, but he is not a human either.
John 6:51; "I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh."
There is a whole thread that could be written about what the living bread mean here. But the point is, Jesus says He came down out of heaven.
Jesus existed before He was a baby in a manger. In fact He existed before Abraham was born. Thousands of years before He came as a baby in a manger.
John 8:58; Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."
Jesus existed before Satan was cast out of heaven.
Luke 10:18; And He said to them, "I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning.
But for the rest of us... We don't exist before we are conceived. What about aborted babies and miscarriages that are never born?
They still have a body, even if it is never birthed from the womb.
There are some so called "Christian" denominations that believe we existed before the earth was created. But this is a false teaching.
They also believe we eventually become a god just like Jesus. But Jesus didn't become a god, He was always God.
That's why He existed before the world was created and you didn't.
Let me define that a little further and say when does spirit come into existance?
There are verses like ....
Eph 1:4; just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love
Rev 13:8; All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.
Some people take these to mean our souls existed before the world was created. However there are several verses that would conflict with that line of thought.
For in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. He eventually got around to creating Adam. Yet Jesus was the firstborn of all creation.
Col 1:15; He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
That means no man existed or was created before Jesus. God existed before the universes was created (that includes Jesus). But it finally was created, Jesus was "the firstborn" of it.
So what does that mean?
It means we didn't exist before the world was created. How can I be so sure?
1 Cor 15:44; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
1 Cor 15:45; So also it is written, "The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
1 Cor 15:46; However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual.
1 Cor 15:47; The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven.
1 Cor 15:48; As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly.
1 Cor 15:49; Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly.
The natural body comes first. If there was never a physical body, then there was never a spiritual body. Our spirit doesn't exist before our body does.
There is of course one major exception to this. More about that in a moment.
So then what about these verses like...
Rev 17:8; "The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction. And those who dwell on the earth, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was and is not and will come.
There are two different explanations, both are pretty straightforward.
I know a couple that wants to have a baby some day. But not yet. They have already picked out names and written them down. One for a boy, and one for a girl.
So just because a name is written down, doesn't mean they exist yet.
The other thought here is... "from the foundation of the world, can mean "since" the foundation of the world. In other words, your name doesn't written until you get saved.
It wasn't written before the foundation of the world, it was written since the world was founded.
In either case, just because your name may already be written doesn't mean you exist yet.
So then who is this one exception who existed before they had a physical body? Jesus of course.
John 6:38; "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
Jesus said He came down from heaven. No other man can make that claim. I suppose it could be argued Satan was cast out of heaven, but he is not a human either.
John 6:51; "I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh."
There is a whole thread that could be written about what the living bread mean here. But the point is, Jesus says He came down out of heaven.
Jesus existed before He was a baby in a manger. In fact He existed before Abraham was born. Thousands of years before He came as a baby in a manger.
John 8:58; Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."
Jesus existed before Satan was cast out of heaven.
Luke 10:18; And He said to them, "I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning.
But for the rest of us... We don't exist before we are conceived. What about aborted babies and miscarriages that are never born?
They still have a body, even if it is never birthed from the womb.
There are some so called "Christian" denominations that believe we existed before the earth was created. But this is a false teaching.
They also believe we eventually become a god just like Jesus. But Jesus didn't become a god, He was always God.
That's why He existed before the world was created and you didn't.
