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Whatcha Think? Yay or Nay?

So, say I were to come on the radio, or on your television set, and I tell you somewhere along the lines of the following:

"The main reason for Jesus coming to earth was not to go to the cross. .... He (Jesus) said, the reason why I came was to deliver to you a kingdom."​

"So, our Gospel is the good news about a kingdom. Therefore, our message, or good news, is not about Calvary. Our good news is not even about the resurrection. These are important aspects of the work of redemption, but these are not the good news."
Basically, I told you that the gospel is not about Jesus dying on a cross for our sins, but instead the gospel is about God bringing us the kingdom, giving us dominion and authority to rule over the earth, to subdue it and take it back for our own. All that stuff about the cross, about the blood, about the perfect sacrifice... ya ya, ok that's sort of true, but it's not what's important, what is important is that we have the Kingdom here on earth, and we need to take up our role in it, that's what's important.


Would you accept what I have to say, or not? Why or why not?

Blessings,

Travis
  • John 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
  • By him, through him, not by you and through you.
  • There will be a new heaven and new earth to come!
  • "Save the world", for what? Save it for all eternity!
  • We are saved for a new heaven and a new earth, fit for the spiritual realm and suited for our spiritual, resurrected , heavenly bodies!
  • If you disagree with this, I guess the answer is , Nay!
 
The gospel of Christ is opened up by John the Baptist here:
Luke 3:15-18 (KJV)
15 And as the people were in expectation, and all men mused in their hearts of John, whether he were the Christ, or not;
16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
17 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.
18 And many other things in his exhortation preached he unto the people.


How was the gospel of Christ preached next? Matthew 4:12-17 (KJV)
12 Now when Jesus had heard that John was cast into prison, he departed into Galilee;
13 And leaving Nazareth, he came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is upon the sea coast, in the borders of Zabulon and Nephthalim:
14 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,
15 The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles;
16 The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.
17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say,
Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Yes, of course the condition of belief unto salvation for us is to believe Jesus died and rose again the third day, confessing that to men. But it that the sum of our salvation? Before answering, consider those two passages above and how we figure into them.

I ask another question in an ongoing answer to the OP. Upon what did Jesus build his Church? His death and resurrection? My answer is what happened to Simon "Peter" when Jesus asked the disciples who they thought he was. Peter acted upon revelation, telling the true identity of Jesus as Son of God. But Jesus prohibited them from telling that information to anyone else. Matthew 16:15-20 (KJV)
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him,
Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

Was Jesus forbidding to tell part of the gospel? Why tell them that? Why not tell hem to preach of his coming death and resurrection? When Peter comprehended that might be about to happen, he took Satan's part. The primary fact that Peter knew the truth, that a man comprehended that revelation without being taught it, Jesus was finally spiritually recognized and absolutely known, as natural men can't do.

So how do we 2,000 years later, enter into that Kingdom and it's benefits? The same way Peter saw that light, having heard the gospel preached by Jesus, then believing it. On the other side of the cross Peter, Paul, and many others realized by revelation what it took to remove that veil in the Temple, that all who would believe on Jesus and all that his Kingdom is, that He is the Door through his death, shedding his own blood, and rising from death to the law of sin and death, all men can be saved through him. "The Way" of Christ Jesus is summarized , in as manner akin to the Ten Commandments summarizing the heart of all the Law, in this: John 10:7-11 (KJV)
7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

There's the gospel straight from Jesus. Or, it can be realized by true belief in Acts 2:21 (KJV)
21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.


Equally powerful are the several scriptures offered by others of us here. My point is that the Kingdom of Heaven includes all that Jesus is and is about, and believing on Him who raised Jesus from the dead. .

So I must reject your OP case, as all things written of Jesus are part of the gospel of Christ, as well as each person on earth should know Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God by revelation of the Holy Spirit. Then when you confess Jesus with your mouth, you mean it from the mind and with all your heart.
 
O ya...... forgot to mention....

These two quotes:

"The main reason for Jesus coming to earth was not to go to the cross. .... He (Jesus) said, the reason why I came was to deliver to you a kingdom."

"So, our Gospel is the good news about a kingdom. Therefore, our message, or good news, is not about Calvary. Our good news is not even about the resurrection. These are important aspects of the work of redemption, but these are not the good news."​

Are from a man named Myles Munroe who was a part of the Word of Faith Crowd.

Myles didn't believe that Jesus's death and resurrection were the central theme of the Gospel (Good News), but instead believed that use being able to walk in the full benefits of "The Kingdom" while here in these fleshly vessels was/is. I don't think he could be any farther from the truth.

Here's the Gospel:

Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand.
By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that He was buried, that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,

1 Corinthians 15:1-4

It's centered on Jesus. Pretty simple.

Sorry Myles, but... you missed the mark on this one.

Blessings,

Travis
 
The gospel we preach is the good news or the gospel of Christ. None of this would be of any value had Jesus not gone to the cross.
Yes Jesus came to teach and show us how to live, however the cross is and always will be why He came. You can pull scripture out and lay in on the table and use it for how ever you desire AND YET you must take the entire word of God and work it together.
 
The gospel we preach is the good news or the gospel of Christ. None of this would be of any value had Jesus not gone to the cross.
Yes Jesus came to teach and show us how to live, however the cross is and always will be why He came. You can pull scripture out and lay in on the table and use it for how ever you desire AND YET you must take the entire word of God and work it together.

Hi Jim,

I believe the good news is what I quoted above, first and foremost, front and center, that Jesus came to die for our sins, and was raised four our justification.

John 12
27 "Now is my soul troubled. And what shall I say? 'Father, save me from this hour'? But for this purpose I have come to this hour.
28 Father, glorify your name." Then a voice came from heaven: "I have glorified it, and I will glorify it again."
29 The crowd that stood there and heard it said that it had thundered. Others said, "An angel has spoken to him."
30 Jesus answered, "This voice has come for your sake, not mine.
31 Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out.
32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."​

The purpose of Jesus coming to earth was to die. He makes that clear to us here. Sure, he showed us many things about how to live, but that's not why he came, he came to die. If Christ be lifted up, only then when he draw all men to himself. Christ being lifted up is a reference to the cross. We preach the cross, and the empty grave.

Paul says that he determined to know nothing among you except Christ Jesus and him crucified. That's it, that's the gospel. Everything flows out of that. It's the source of the stream. That's the pinnacle, the most important thing.

Keep our eyes on Jesus the author and finisher of our faith. I don't want to go to heaven to be in heaven, I want to go to heaven to be with Jesus.

Blessings,

Travis
 
The first things to preach of the gospel of Christ is as you say, Christ dying for our sin and risen from the dead.

So then I take it that you would be satisfied to see nothing else printed of the New Testament than what you've quoted above? The other is in vain? Probably over 95% of the New Testament has nothing directly to do with that part of what Jesus and the Church is about. What of Jesus' first sermons to repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand? What of Jesus' sermon on the Mount? Not good news? Not part of the gospel for us to preach?

The particular "hour", that period of hours of Jesus' crucifixion, death, burial, and resurrection is the "hour" of our salvation, which is central to the gospel of Christ. It's that hour that Jesus the man would preferred to have been delivered from, but, that was his purpose for coming to that hour. But there is much more, years of preaching before that hour, and all the Church has received since that hour. Defeating Satan is another. What happens to believers in Christ is also central to the gospel, the good news.

Modern preachers have slowly deleted so much of the gospel that now many hearers can't really comprehend the central part of the cross, much less the grave, or the resurrection and what it means for us.
 
So then I take it that you would be satisfied to see nothing else printed of the New Testament than what you've quoted above? The other is in vain? Probably over 95% of the New Testament has nothing directly to do with that part of what Jesus and the Church is about. What of Jesus' first sermons to repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand? What of Jesus' sermon on the Mount? Not good news? Not part of the gospel for us to preach?
I kind of figured someone would falsely accuse me of saying this.
 
The particular "hour", that period of hours of Jesus' crucifixion, death, burial, and resurrection is the "hour" of our salvation, which is central to the gospel of Christ. It's that hour that Jesus the man would preferred to have been delivered from, but, that was his purpose for coming to that hour. But there is much more, years of preaching before that hour, and all the Church has received since that hour. Defeating Satan is another. What happens to believers in Christ is also central to the gospel, the good news.

Central, being what is in the center, being of the utmost importance. In this case, when I say central, I'm talking about what is the crux of it all, what is the most important, the key, the pinnacle, the climax, the foundation, the most important part of it all, what everything 'centers' around. This is Christ Jesus and him Crucified. Everything that draws its power, its strength, its purpose from that central theme/reality, is by definition not central here. Is it important? Of course, but it's not front and center. If we put anything above these things, we have made them more important than what should be in the center, namely the core of the Gospel, that is Christ Jesus and Him crucified. If what we teach distracts from that reality, then it's not the gospel.

[1Ti 1:12-15 ESV] 12 I thank him who has given me strength, Christ Jesus our Lord, because he judged me faithful, appointing me to his service, 13 though formerly I was a blasphemer, persecutor, and insolent opponent. But I received mercy because I had acted ignorantly in unbelief, 14 and the grace of our Lord overflowed for me with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. 15 The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost.
Jesus came into the world to save sinners. He didn't save sinners by teaching us how to save ourselves by living a righteous life, he saved us by going to the Cross and bearing the wrath of Almighty God for us. He who knew no sin, became sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God. He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed. This is the gospel.

But again, what do Myles Munroe and most of the Word of Faith preachers say?

"The main reason for Jesus coming to earth was not to go to the cross. .... He (Jesus) said, the reason why I came was to deliver to you a kingdom."

"So, our Gospel is the good news about a kingdom. Therefore, our message, or good news, is not about Calvary. Our good news is not even about the resurrection. These are important aspects of the work of redemption, but these are not the good news."
He couldn't be more wrong. Plain and simple.

Blessings,

Travis
 
Thank you all, for chiming in,

Anyone else like to share their opinion about my original post?

I do believe your OP was a quote from the now deceased Dr. Myles Munroe, which set off a firestorm on the internet after his death in a plane crash recently. I understand what he was saying, but it doesn't come off well at all, and he does NOT speak for all WOF preachers! Jesus died to make the Kingdom of God open to us by His blood sacrifice, His death and resurrection, by which he defeated sin, death and Satan himself, and has given all of us who believe in Him the keys to that Kingdom.

John 10:10 (AMP)
The thief comes only in order to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have and enjoy life, and have it in abundance (to the full, till it overflows).

John 12:46 (AMP)
I have come as a Light into the world, so that whoever believes in Me [whoever cleaves to and trusts in and relies on Me] may not continue to live in darkness.
 
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