What you won't hear from the Health and Wealth Preachers

[lecoope]

Because I am a giver and a tither.....Someone just dropped five thousand bucks into my bank account....I have no idea who...nobody owed me money ...Gifts and surprises to Gods people....Praise God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HALLELUJAH!

 

[lecoope]

How do you minister to the needy when you have empty pockets? How do you feed the hungry with no way to buy food..How do you clothe them with no way to buy clothes to share? Lets all be poor and let them freeze in the dark...Good idea? How selfish

WOW! I like this answer!

 

[amadeus2]

What the "needy" need more than anything is their physical needs taken care of "first"!!!! If this is not the first priority, how can the love of God dwell in that person?

1John 3:17 But if anyone has this world's goods (resources for sustaining life) and sees his brother and fellow believer in need, yet closes his heart of compassion against him, how can the love of God live and remain in him?(AMP)

Hmmm and what does this mean to you? Is it not putting something else first?

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

 

[amadeus2]

Did you notice? Jesus fed the hungry..Why?

And what did he mean with these words when some these hungry approached him later?

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled." John 6:26

And he goes on to say:

"Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed." John 6:27

1 John 3:18 (CJB)
18 Children, let us love not with words and talk, but with actions and in reality!

My brother, you will never convince anyone that God will take care of them when you are poor too....You gotta show them! If you want to talk the talk you have to walk the walk...anything less and they won't listen.

We have to show people God's love by sharing with them whatever we have. If we have natural food and clothing, those things may certainly included, but it is what our heart shows that matters. If our heart is full of God and someone is hungering and thirsting after righteousness, will they not be filled? [see Matt 5:6]

 

[amadeus2]

I believed without seeing and behold I see. I believed without hearing and behold I hear.
As you have believed, so be it unto you.

Amen!

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Heb 11:1

 

[amadeus2]

This means you first must know the Word of God before you can have faith for anything. All the promises of God are received by faith, and this includes every thing that pertains to life (stuff needed for living on earth), and Godliness. (spiritual understanding)

The Word of God, my brother, is not a dead book for that is what even the Bible is without the quickening Spirit in a person. The Bible read by an atheist for the wrong purpose will NOT win him to God:

"...God;
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." II Cor 3:5-6

 

[Bendito]

And what did he mean with these words when some these hungry approached him later?

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled." John 6:26

And he goes on to say:

"Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed." John 6:27






We have to show people God's love by sharing with them whatever we have. If we have natural food and clothing, those things may certainly included, but it is what our heart shows that matters. If our heart is full of God and someone is hungering and thirsting after righteousness, will they not be filled? [see Matt 5:6]

Yeah...He told them right out that they were looking for Him for the wrong reasons...We can do the same...

 

[amadeus2]

Yeah...He told them right out that they were looking for Him for the wrong reasons...We can do the same...

Amen!

Many people do, but I believe sometimes the vision of some those people of poor vision is greatly improved.
Before his encounter with Jesus on the road to Damascus the Apostle Paul (Saul) read the scriptures and believed in God in a measure. That measure was greatly amplified beginning with that encounter.

Give God the glory!

 

[Curtis]

The Word of God, my brother, is not a dead book for that is what even the Bible is without the quickening Spirit in a person.

Who said anything about the Bible being a dead book? Not me. I was talking about faith. Faith comes from the Word of God, and without knowing the Word you will have no faith.

 

[Curtis]

Hmmm and what does this mean to you? Is it not putting something else first?

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

Brother do you remember when you were saved? When does the Bible say you were saved? It was not 10, 20 30-40 years ago on any specific date in history!!! It was before the "world began"!!!! (2 Tim 1:9) That salvation which you had did not do you a heap of good, until you found out what God had done for you through his Son Jesus Christ, through the Gospel (Word of God)
Once you found this out you experienced what's known as the New birth. Nothing God has given you from the beginning is of any benefit until you first find out what it is in his Word!!! (his promises)

Seeking God's Kingdom can not be done without first seeking, and knowing God's Word!!!! If you want God to provide all your needs then you better know what he has given you which is only found in the Word of God!!! Our Heavenly Father knows every thing we have need of before we ask him. (Matt 6:8) What do you mean before we ask him? Even though the Father knows all the things we need of for life, and Godliness, we will never get them unless you ask him for it, and you can NOT ask in faith unless you know the Word of God, because that is where faith comes from.

James 4:1 From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?
James 4:2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
James 4:3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

 

[Dave M]

Curtis said
What the "needy" need more than anything is their physical needs taken care of "first"!!!! If this is not the first priority, how can the love of God dwell in that person?

I disagree with this whole heartily, and would have to ask where is someones faith who says this, just look at the story of George Muller, fed and housed thousands of homeless children on faith alone brother, God provided all his needs to do this, he only prayed for what he needed and God provided, he never asked anyone for anything. Praise God. !!!!

 

[rag4aCrown]

Curtis said
What the "needy" need more than anything is their physical needs taken care of "first"!!!! If this is not the first priority, how can the love of God dwell in that person?

I disagree with this whole heartily, and would have to ask where is someones faith who says this, just look at the story of George Muller, fed and housed thousands of homeless children on faith alone brother, God provided all his needs to do this, he only prayed for what he needed and God provided, he never asked anyone for anything. Praise God. !!!!

Amen.
Faith...the (substance) of things hoped for, the (evidence) of things not seen.
Thou the mountain we are tackling appears larger than us, we believe God is bigger than any mountain we see. We began the work (faith) and believe God will provide. The evidence is in the molehill, that appeared to be a mountain to us.

Faith without works is dead.

I work (take action on faith) and God is faithful to His labourer. Amen

 

[Curtis]

Curtis said
What the "needy" need more than anything is their physical needs taken care of "first"!!!! If this is not the first priority, how can the love of God dwell in that person?

I disagree with this whole heartily, and would have to ask where is someones faith who says this, just look at the story of George Muller, fed and housed thousands of homeless children on faith alone brother, God provided all his needs to do this, he only prayed for what he needed and God provided, he never asked anyone for anything. Praise God. !!!!

Brother This is not my idea, or opinion. this is what scripture says.

1John 3:17 But if anyone has this world's goods (resources for sustaining life) and sees his brother and fellow believer in need, yet closes his heart of compassion against him, how can the love of God live and remain in him?(AMP)

I don't know the story of George Muller, but it sounds like to me he saw a physical need, and fulfilled that need by "faith". This man tapped into a spiritual law and operated in it. "Give and it shall be given unto you, pressed down, and over flowing shall men give unto your bosom" (Luke 6:38)

 

[Hekuran]

My observation would be that Jesus most often addressed people's needs together. One example that springs to mind is the healing of the woman suffering from haemorrhages in Luke 8.

When we think about spiritual and physical, one is not more important than the other, and there will be times when we need to use our judgement and be led by the spirit to know how to respond best in any given situation.

In modern western society we often think in terms of meeting needs (fixing people). The emphasis in the Bible seems to me to be more about making people whole, shalom and restoring people.

 

[amadeus2]

Who said anything about the Bible being a dead book? Not me. I was talking about faith. Faith comes from the Word of God, and without knowing the Word you will have no faith.

I was the one that said the Bible was dead, for without the quickening (bring to Life) of the Holy Spirit, that is exactly what it is, a dead book consisting of ink on paper, but like Jesus dead on the cross, it is waiting to be resurrected in the hearts of men.

An atheist can read the Bible with no intention of finding the truth, but rather to support his own godless agenda and he will get just that. However, anyone reading that same Bible with a heart open to God will receive something good.

 

[amadeus2]

Brother do you remember when you were saved? When does the Bible say you were saved? It was not 10, 20 30-40 years ago on any specific date in history!!! It was before the "world began"!!!! (2 Tim 1:9) That salvation which you had did not do you a heap of good, until you found out what God had done for you through his Son Jesus Christ, through the Gospel (Word of God)
Once you found this out you experienced what's known as the New birth. Nothing God has given you from the beginning is of any benefit until you first find out what it is in his Word!!! (his promises)

Brother, God certainly established His plan before anything was created or marred or born again. Each of us must do what Jesus did. We must overcome and continue to overcome the things in our flesh that stand between us and the goal that God has for each of us. Jesus made it possible for each of us to accomplish that... but we do have to start accomplish from the time that we first become aware of the need. I received the gift of the Holy Ghost in 1976 [age 32], but I knew I needed to move closer to God in 1949 [age6] when I was baptized in water in the Roman Catholic Church. I have overcome many things in my walk along the course toward the goal He has set before me. I am not finished yet.

Jesus paid the price which needed to be paid before anyone could go back into the Garden and approach the Tree of Life closed to men since the 1st man Adam.

Jesus overcame the world of His won flesh AND He provided whatever would be necessary for each of us to do the same. We must take hold of the tools provided and step out toward our goal. This process will not be finished for any us until we have finished our course (died naturally?).
On the cross Jesus said, "..It is finished..." John 19:30, which meant that His part was done on behalf of us. Our part was now a possibility.

Seeking God's Kingdom can not be done without first seeking, and knowing God's Word!!!!

Does a person have to know that there is a kingdom in order to seek it? Was not David not seeking the right thing here?

"When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, LORD, will I seek." Psalm 27:8

David certainly knew there was to be a Messiah (without knowing his name was to be Jesus) , but did he know what that Face he was seeking looked like? Is His Face different than the Kingdom? How much does a person need to understand to begin his journey toward the goal?

If you want God to provide all your needs then you better know what he has given you which is only found in the Word of God!!! Our Heavenly Father knows every thing we have need of before we ask him. (Matt 6:8) What do you mean before we ask him? Even though the Father knows all the things we need of for life, and Godliness, we will never get them unless you ask him for it, and you can NOT ask in faith unless you know the Word of God, because that is where faith comes from.

Without the Holy Spirit no one can know the Word of God... not even by memorizing the Bible.

James 4:1 From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?
James 4:2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
James 4:3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

Baby steps, Curtis! No one begins with uncut unchewed meat. In the following verses, the Apostle was not speaking to unbelievers, but to believers... believers who still could only see through a glass which was very dark [I Cor 13:12].

"And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able" I Cor 3:1-2

When a baby is born to his mother, he cannot talk or understand or eat meat. He must grow as even the man Jesus grew "... in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man." Luke 2:52

 

[Christ4Ever]

To my brothers & sisters in Christ Jesus who have been participating in this thread.
I find it so amazing and rejoice how this thread has turned. That each has opened themselves up to something greater...a unity as befits the Body of Christ.

Still, it took someone to come in who has since been banned to reset the priorities that we must stay focused on in this dying/dark world. Being salt/light to those who are lost!!! Alleluia!

When I see these communications in love & understanding in your words it makes my heart sing in rejoicing in how Great our God is in drawing those to Him that would hear, believe & act upon His words! Thank-you for confirming what hasn't always been apparent to those who read the entirety of the words that you place here. Your love encompasses each other even against the most trying of times.

Thank-you one and all.
With the love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

i]

Brother I am not arguing, you are, I come in love to warn people about the false prosperity Gospel.

Here is a fact for you sir,
You know what the devil hates more then a spirit filled believer?
A Wealthy in all areas Born again Spirit Filled Christian.


Blessings
Jim

 

[Sue J Love]

Here is a fact for you sir,
You know what the devil hates more then a spirit filled believer?
A Wealthy in all areas Born again Spirit Filled Christian.


Blessings
Jim

Jim, would you please support that statement with scripture, i.e. your statement that says that the devil hates wealthy (in all areas) born again Spirit-filled Christians more than he hates Spirit-filled believers?

Why did the devil hate Jesus? It wasn't because of his material wealth. Jesus said as he was treated, so would we be treated, and for the same or similar reasons. Read Revelation 12:17: "Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea." He hates us because we keep the commandments of God (His Word) and because we hold to the testimony of Jesus (to his gospel).

Let me pose another question for you: Is it not true that if we are Spirit-filled that we are already rich, i.e. rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom of God? How much richer can you get than that? God owns it all, and we are his heirs, so what more do we need than that? God should be our all-sufficiency. We are to seek him and his righteousness, and all that we need will be added unto us. We are to lay up treasures in heaven, not on the earth, for our earthly treasures are going to pass away.

Let me say here that I don't believe that being either rich or poor (materially) in this world is equivalent with godliness. There will be rich and poor (in this world) alike in hell and in heaven. And, I don't believe that material wealth should be what we seek after, nor should we seek to be poor if God wants to bless us so that we can be a blessing to others. I did a Bible search on the word "rich," and it rendered these results (NT only): https://www.biblegateway.com/quicks...icksearch=rich&startnumber=51&begin=47&end=73

If we read all these verses in context, we will see that the Bible has much to say against pursuing the treasures or wealth of this world. I think what this really comes down to is attitude, heart and mind. Is God the god of our lives? Or, is wealth? If God is God, then we need to let him determine what money or possessions we have in this life. He does bless us, sometimes, with material possessions and money so that we can be generous and share with others who are need, but wealth should not be what we seek. God is who we should seek, and his righteousness, and he is the one who adds all these other things unto us as he determines, not as we determine.

One day all the things of this world are going to pass away. It may be sooner than later. The important thing here is that we are following the Lord Jesus with our lives, that we are walking in the Spirit and no longer according to the flesh, that he is truly Lord (owner-master) of our lives, and that we are his servants (bond-slaves) and slaves to his righteousness. We need to be ok, too, if everything we have in this world is suddenly taken away from us and all we have is Jesus. Will he be enough? He is for me. I have learned to be content living in plenty or in want (without much of the riches of this world). Sometimes wealth (worldly) can be a stumbling block to full surrender of one's life to Jesus Christ, as is stated in these scriptures on the subject of "rich." It really comes down to this question, "Is Jesus enough to satisfy?" If not, then something is wrong. For all else flows from him - all good things which he has for us.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Hi @Sue J Love

Blessings,
I changed my mind.
I am re writing this later and post tomorrow
Blessings
Wired