what to do??

[Dave M]

How do you properly biblical speaking handle a situation where you have a body of Christ that meets regular and discusses the word and yet one brothers doctrine does not line up with scripture, the entire body tries to show the dear brother his error in his way yet he does not see it.

This is basic christian doctrine (not like osas stuff.) this is clear cut doctrine.

So how does the word say we are to handle this????




thanks

 

[B-A-C]

How do you properly biblical speaking handle a situation where you have a body of Christ that meets regular and discusses the word and yet one brothers doctrine does not line up with scripture, the entire body tries to show the dear brother his error in his way yet he does not see it.

This is basic christian doctrine (not like osas stuff.) this is clear cut doctrine.

So how does the word say we are to handle this????

To me... the Bible is very clear about these things. We let WAAAAAAAAAAY too much garbage be said here.
It doesn't edify us (the body) and it doesn't edify God. It causes dissension and strife. Almost every thread is hi-jacked
and nothing else can be said no matter how Godly or Spiritual it is, it gets lost in the hi-jacking.

Tit 1:10; For there are many rebellious men, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision,
Tit 1:11; who must be silenced because they are upsetting whole families, teaching things they should not teach for the sake of sordid gain.

1 Tim 1:5; But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.
1 Tim 1:6; For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion,
1 Tim 1:7; wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions.

2 Tim 4:2; preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.
2 Tim 4:3; For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,
2 Tim 4:4; and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.

2 Pet 2:1; But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.
2 Pet 2:2; Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned;
2 Pet 2:3; and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

Gal 1:6; I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel;
Gal 1:7; which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8; But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!
Gal 1:9; As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!

It isn't just "one" person. There are a few. But people let it go on and on... I have no idea why.
Perhaps they are afraid "to make a judgment".

The thing I've noticed... is it has some truth, and a lot of "half-truths" mixed in with it.
This seems to be Satan's way from the beginning. Getting us to doubt what God said.

Gen 3:1; Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, "Indeed, has God said, 'You shall not eat from any tree of the garden'?"

1 Tim 6:3; If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness,
1 Tim 6:4; he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions,
1 Tim 6:5; and constant friction between men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain.

Does this sound like anyone?
There is a lot more to say here... but I will get off the soap box for now.

Despite people saying "don't use the Bible to correct them" (Bible bashing?)
What else do we have? This is Exactly what we are told to do.

2 Tim 4:2; preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.

Tit 1:13; This testimony is true. For this reason reprove them severely so that they may be sound in the faith,

But for some reason ... some people don't want to offend anyone. Even if it means letting them deceive people.

 

[Dave M]

@B-A-C I can always count on you for having scripture to back everything up you speak !! one thing I much appreciate about you brother

 

[Fragrant Grace]

Greetings @Dave M

This verse came to my mind when reading your post

So shall My word be that goeth forth out of My mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
Isaiah 55:11

When the Lord sends forth His word, it will be done and cannot be stifled nor return unto Him void.
False doctrine will not accomplish anything and cannot stand against the truth.

 

[B-A-C]

When the Lord sends forth His word, it will be done and cannot be stifled nor return unto Him void.
False doctrine will not accomplish anything and cannot stand against the truth.

I wonder if this is apple and oranges. God's Word accomplishing something is one thing.
I don't think that has a lot to do with false doctrines.

2 Cor 11:3; But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ.
1 Tim 6:21; which some have professed and thus gone astray from the faith. Grace be with you.
2 Tim 2:18; men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and they upset the faith of some.
Heb 3:10; "THEREFORE I WAS ANGRY WITH THIS GENERATION, AND SAID, 'THEY ALWAYS GO ASTRAY IN THEIR HEART, AND THEY DID NOT KNOW MY WAYS';
2 Pet 2:15; forsaking the right way, they have gone astray, having followed the way of Balaam, the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
Rev 2:20; 'But I have this against you, that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, and she teaches and leads My bond-servants astray so that they commit acts of immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols.

The Bible says false doctrines will lead people astray.

1 Tim 4:1; But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,

It is the truth that sets us free. If we don't know the Bible, how can we know the truth?
God's Word doesn't return void, but it can be "snatched away" and fallen away from because of false doctrines.

Matt 13:19; "When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is the one on whom seed was sown beside the road.

1 Tim 1:3; As I urged you upon my departure for Macedonia, remain on at Ephesus so that you may instruct certain men not to teach strange doctrines,

 

[Fragrant Grace]

Thank you for that scripture @B-A-C

I was really just shating the verse that came to my mind whilst reading Dave M's thread nothing more :smile:


False doctrine posted here will not stand in the light of the truth found in God's word.

 

[At Peace]

How do you properly biblical speaking handle a situation where you have a body of Christ that meets regular and discusses the word and yet one brothers doctrine does not line up with scripture, the entire body tries to show the dear brother his error in his way yet he does not see it.
This is basic christian doctrine (not like osas stuff.) this is clear cut doctrine.
So how does the word say we are to handle this????
thanks

Let him establish his POV using scripture.
Or perhaps I should have written...Make him establish his POV with scripture.
With enough examination of his POV, he will eventually be swayed over to the group's doctrine.
That is, if your doctrine is defendable.

 

[KingJ]

How do you properly biblical speaking handle a situation where you have a body of Christ that meets regular and discusses the word and yet one brothers doctrine does not line up with scripture, the entire body tries to show the dear brother his error in his way yet he does not see it.

This is basic christian doctrine (not like osas stuff.) this is clear cut doctrine.

So how does the word say we are to handle this????

thanks

Rom 14 comes to mind. The whole chapter needs to be read. I would say verse 5 speaks directly to your issue ''One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind''

We need to also remember verse 10 '' You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat.''

Is it a material matter? If not we have crystal clear instruction to live peacefully and in love with them Rom 14:15 If your brother or sister is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy someone for whom Christ died and verse 19 Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification.

I know it speaks about 'eating', but the context / principle is all non material issues. We must not make a material issue out of something immaterial, otherwise 'we' become the issue :smile:.

 

[KingJ]

Having said that we also need to be vigilant 1 Pet 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour.

Wrong doctrine weaves it way in and becomes a material issue over time. It never starts off as one.

At our church we have open ministry. If someone stands up and preaches error, an elder will make the effort to correct it to the congregation. The person in question will be counselled afterward. This, done over tea and biscuits in love and humility.

Here on the internet we give the correction but not the tea and biscuits. So it seems like we always upset with someone.

 

[Hekuran]

Very good question and lots of good responses too...

It's unfashionable to talk about the church as an institution at the moment, but my experience is that without a solid structure of accountability, leadership and responsibility, there is no way to address these issues without causing massive division and chaos in the body of Christ.

There are different traditionote and approaches - some put greater emphasis on an ordained pastor, others to a group. It's clear to me that without some form of clear leadership - a means to make a final decision - the whole flock is easily torn apart.

In Matthew 18 jesus set out a robust process for dealing with sin. We need the same for doctrine.

 

[Christ4Ever]

How do you properly biblical speaking handle a situation where you have a body of Christ that meets regular and discusses the word and yet one brothers doctrine does not line up with scripture, the entire body tries to show the dear brother his error in his way yet he does not see it.

This is basic christian doctrine (not like osas stuff.) this is clear cut doctrine.

So how does the word say we are to handle this????

thanks

Dear Brother Dave.
I must ask. As you've read the succeeding postings by your Brothers in Christ Jesus. Was this the purpose and results that you expected in opening this thread?

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[Dave M]

this thread was going along fine and informative and respect until @Br. Bear Bear came and posted I am calling him out for disturbing the unity in this thread. He attacked @B-A-C post and my post. there is one culprit in this thread and its Bear. Sorry but you have double standard and need to look in the mirror brother !!

Greetings again,

I figured it out!

A couple of options....
Scruff them and throw them over the nearest highest cliff
Stone them
cut them asunder and do all with gnashing teeth and tearing clothes and if you really want to get scriptural you could even resort to sackcloth and ashes!

Problem solved!

That' how they did it isn't it?
Sorry I haven't supplied scripture but I think you know them.

If you can improve on this please let me know.
But I forgot to say the first thing is to totally forget the fact, yes, fact of the matter, that it is either their doctrine or God's and if God's then where did they get it from? But that might lead to producing some kind of fruit, beware, instead of acting like Pharisees and the Sanhedrin, etc.


Bless you ....><>

EDIT: yes, an after thought!
What about...
stir up one another against the member of that group and don't forget to also stir up dissension against any leadership type members as well? It always help.... to ruin our testimony of God's love that we claim to have both received and be ministers of.

Or...
how about,
And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt Thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? Luke 9:54

I asked how to handle something biblical and this is the non-sense I get from you. I would of expected better from you.
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EDIT: offending post has been removed

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

thank you Dave.

of course the other posts I also supplied are a lot of rot, too.

Please forgive me for presenting anything for you to think about and to be horrified by.

One day you might see the non-sense that you mention being the attitude of some.

If you stop and think about it, the suggestions I put in that post were from Biblical examples.... it was more a backward way of saying, don't do that.
I thought you were sincerely asking for advice about how you (or anyone) would handle a matter in a man to man real person situation rather than a more specific situation here at TalkJesus. I shall remove my other posts if they are of no worth to you, also.

But thank you very much for your kind remarks,


Bless you ....><>
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EDIT: Offending posts have been removed

 

[Br. Bear]

Despite people saying "don't use the Bible to correct them" (Bible bashing?)

@B-A-C Greetings,

Please forgive me but I think I must have said something that made you think i was saying what you said,.

In my mind, Bible bashing does not equate to what you mis-quoted, namely, "don't use the Bible to correct them".

Perhaps i need to be more careful with the words i use as it appears that they can be interpreted by any and all to fit their own way of presenting something?

Again, sorry about that. Please forgive me.


Bless you ....><>

 

[Dave M]

Bear if we take your post out of this thread it would be a respectable thread you brought division to it and sarcasm in it as well. We are all human and for what ever reason this thread seemed to hit a sore spot with you and you let it out.

you are the only one who acted disrespectful in this thread

happens to the best of us brother no worries mate
----------------------------------------------
EDIT: offending post has been removed

 

[B-A-C]

you have a body of Christ that meets regular and discusses the word

I tried to message you privately, but was unable. I wonder if you could try to start a conversation with me?

 

[At Peace]

Very good question and lots of good responses too...

It's unfashionable to talk about the church as an institution at the moment, but my experience is that without a solid structure of accountability, leadership and responsibility, there is no way to address these issues without causing massive division and chaos in the body of Christ.

There are different traditionote and approaches - some put greater emphasis on an ordained pastor, others to a group. It's clear to me that without some form of clear leadership - a means to make a final decision - the whole flock is easily torn apart.

In Matthew 18 jesus set out a robust process for dealing with sin. We need the same for doctrine.

I concur whole heartedly.
God provides bishops and deacons to make the hard decisions among brothers in Christ. (1 Tim 3, Titus 1)
They have the final say.

 

[At Peace]

Which is more dangerous? Telling someone they shouldn't tell others they have to perfect to be Christians?
Or telling them they do? How many new Christians will give up hope when they realize they haven't been perfect?

Which is more profitable for the new believer?
The one who allows him to remain defiled or the one who tells him he can leave the defilement behind.

We were given two commandments by Jesus.
Love God above all else and love our neighbor as we love ourselves.
To imply that this is not accomplishable is a work of the devil.

As you seem to believe this is accomplishable, and even wish me well for doing so, why don't you want to follow suit?
I'm puzzled.

 

[Dave M]

Which is more profitable for the new believer?
The one who allows him to remain defiled or the one who tells him he can leave the defilement behind.

We were given two commandments by Jesus.
Love God above all else and love our neighbor as we love ourselves.
To imply that this is not accomplishable is a work of the devil.

As you seem to believe this is accomplishable, and even wish me well for doing so, why don't you want to follow suit?
I'm puzzled.

so what if you are not loving your neighbor as your self one day out of 7 then what?? what does I loving your neighbor as your self really look like in the real world examples??

because I think I fail at this and would love to be perfect at yet I think its impossible. so if we look at Jesus we see he left everything paradise to come here the gutter,

He also was willing to dye for each and everyone of us we were sinners, so are you willing to dye for a sinner??

I think the law loving our neighbor as our self really shows us how far removed we are from being perfect. 24 hr a day 7 days a week.

so question for you if someone can not keep the law of loving the neighbor as themselves 24/7 is that person a christian born again believer ???

 

[Dave M]

I tried to message you privately, but was unable. I wonder if you could try to start a conversation with me?

done