What the Bible says about Water Baptism

[East2West]

Amber have you got any scripture to support your statement here?



What do you think about this scripture.

Act 19:1-7 While Apollos was in Corinth, Paul traveled through the interior provinces. Finally, he came to Ephesus, where he found several believers. [fn] "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" he asked them. "No," they replied, "we don't know what you mean. We haven't even heard that there is a Holy Spirit." "Then what baptism did you experience?" he asked. And they replied, "The baptism of John." Paul said, "John's baptism was to demonstrate a desire to turn from sin and turn to God. John himself told the people to believe in Jesus, the one John said would come later." As soon as they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in other tongues and prophesied. There were about twelve men in all.

That scripture is referring to the apostle's ability to allow ppl to receivie the gifts of the holy spirit (described in more detail in 1 cor 12:8-10) by the laying of hands on the people. No one could receive the gifts except from the apostles. You see that this is not talking about holy spirit baptism. The people were first baptized in the name of jesus- water baptism. And then when Paul laid his hands on them AFTER the baptism, the people received the gifts.

There is another example of this in Acts 8. Acts 8:12 said when Phillip was preaching, the ppl believed and were baptized. Was this holy spirit baptism? No because Acts 8:16 says the ppl had been baptized but had NOT received the holy ghost yet. Only the apostles could bestow those gifts upon ppl. Phillip could do the miracles himself (Acts 8:13). He was the one who was preaching in Samaria here when all these ppl, including Simon were getting baptized after believing. However, Phillip could not give the gift of the holy spirit to the ppl. He had to call two of the apostles to come and lay hands on the ppl (Acts 8:14-17).

There is not an example in the Bible of ppl who received the gifts from anyone except the apostles.

Today, we do not have the apostles to lay hands on us. These gifts have ceased as promised in 1 Cor 13:8.

Your example is simply one that shows the apostles giving the gifts of the holy spirit to the ppl. Holy spirit baptism only occured in Acts 2 and at the house of Cornelius in Acts 10:44. And the gifts were only passed on by the apostles who are dead now.

Besides this, Peter commanded those who had been holy spirit baptized to still be water baptized in Acts 10:47-48.

I like your thoughts though, jigglyfly. You ask very good questions that I myself have asked before.

 

[East2West]

from Joe Johnson

LOOK, I JUST WROTE MANY REPLIES TO YOUR ABOVE STATEMENTS, THEN ERASED THEM. YOUR ARE SET IN YOUR WAYS AND I IN MINE AND LET'S LEAVE IT AT THAT!
BUT PLEASE ANSWER THIS ONE LAST QUESTION FOR ME AND THE REST OF THOSE ON THIS THREAD:

Are you saying that God will only save you if you go into a Baptistry and, are you saying that you must go into the water to be 'Born-Again" and Jesus is the way and the truth but only through water?

Brother Joe, I believe if you read my original post on this forum and all of the replies I have already sent you, you will clearly see my position on this according to the scripture I have provided.

 

[jiggyfly]

It''s not "best" to do what the Bible says. It is the only way to get to heaven.

For the third time Amber, do you have any scripture to support your statement here?

There is not an example in the Bible of ppl who received the gifts from anyone except the apostles.

How about this scripture?
Act 2:1-4 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

 

[East2West]

How about this scripture?
Act 2:1-4 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

The scripture you have given me is the scripture I was referring to in Acts 2 when the ppl were actually baptized with the Holy Spirit. The other time this occurred was to the house of Cornelius in Acts 10. All other gifts were given by the laying of hands of the apostles- you can read the examples in my post before this one.

On the other question, I answered you already on the other point in an earlier post when I was answering evangelize, but here is another verse to add to that:

2 Th 1:8 says vengeance are taken out on those that know not God. Therefore, only those who know God will be rewarded with heaven. Well, how do we know if we know God? If we do what He says ( 1 John 2:3 ). So, by following God's commands in the Bible, we know God and can escape that eternal punishment.

Eph 5:5 says those who do things against the Word of God (which is what the Bible is) shall not inherit the kingdom of God. So we MUST follow the Bible or we won't inherit the kingdom.

Please look at the previous answer as well concerning this.

Great questions.

 

[jiggyfly]

The scripture you have given me is the scripture I was referring to in Acts 2 when the ppl were actually baptized with the Holy Spirit. The other time this occurred was to the house of Cornelius in Acts 10. All other gifts were given by the laying of hands of the apostles- you can read the examples in my post before this one.

On the other question, I answered you already on the other point in an earlier post when I was answering evangelize, but here is another verse to add to that:

2 Th 1:8 says vengeance are taken out on those that know not God. Therefore, only those who know God will be rewarded with heaven. Well, how do we know if we know God? If we do what He says ( 1 John 2:3 ). So, by following God's commands in the Bible, we know God and can escape that eternal punishment.

Eph 5:5 says those who do things against the Word of God (which is what the Bible is) shall not inherit the kingdom of God. So we MUST follow the Bible or we won't inherit the kingdom.

Please look at the previous answer as well concerning this.

Great questions.

Where did you learn all this from Amber?

 

[RJ]

Brother Joe, I believe if you read my original post on this forum and all of the replies I have already sent you, you will clearly see my position on this according to the scripture I have provided.

Please, for the sake of other readers, will God save those who are not water baptised? Yes or No?

 

[RJ]

The scripture you have given me is the scripture I was referring to in Acts 2 when the ppl were actually baptized with the Holy Spirit. The other time this occurred was to the house of Cornelius in Acts 10. All other gifts were given by the laying of hands of the apostles- you can read the examples in my post before this one.

On the other question, I answered you already on the other point in an earlier post when I was answering evangelize, but here is another verse to add to that:

2 Th 1:8 says vengeance are taken out on those that know not God. Therefore, only those who know God will be rewarded with heaven. Well, how do we know if we know God? If we do what He says ( 1 John 2:3 ). So, by following God's commands in the Bible, we know God and can escape that eternal punishment.

Eph 5:5 says those who do things against the Word of God (which is what the Bible is) shall not inherit the kingdom of God. So we MUST follow the Bible or we won't inherit the kingdom.

Please look at the previous answer as well concerning this.

Great questions.

Would you please answer the 2 questions below.
You said:
So, by following God's commands in the Bible, we know God and can escape that eternal punishment.
That is a broad statement.
So, in light of your statement:
Question:
1. are you saying that we must follow the Ten Commandments to escape eternal punishment?

You said:
Eph 5:5 says those who do things against the Word of God (which is what the Bible is) shall not inherit the kingdom of God. So we MUST follow the Bible or we won't inherit the kingdom.

Eph 5:3-7
But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people. 4Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. 5For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a man is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.<SUP>a</SUP> 6Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7Therefore do not be partners with them.

Question:
2. In the above words of God, I have include two verses on either side of verse 5. Where does it say "those who do things against the Word of God?

 

[East2West]

Where did you learn all this from Amber?

It's just what I see in the Bible, jiggyfly. I have studied different views of different popular denominations and come across different verses upon doing so. I teach what I read in God's Word. Nothing more, nothing less (Deut 4:2).

I study diligently to make my election sure (2 Pet 1:10) and to show myself approved unto God (2 Tim 2:15). In my studies, I find what God wants of me and keep His commands to know Him (1 John 2:3) and show Him that I love Him (John 14:15).

I am only telling you because you asked where I learned this. I am not trying to hold myself in any kind of regard at all. I don't deserve anything I have been given, especially not the chance to be saved. So I am just doing all I can to make sure I do what God wants me to do to thank Him for his grace and mercy and show Him that I love Him.

I wouldn't teach something I didn't think was in the Bible, the inspired Word of God (2 Tim 3:16 -- That's also another good verse to show that the scriptures are used for instruction in righteousness

 

[East2West]

Joe Johnson,

Question 1- no I am not talking about the ten commandments.

Question 2- this verse lists many things that are against what the Word of God- the Bible- teaches (sexual immorality, foolish talk, greediness, etc). It says anyone who does these things- things that are against the Word of God- will not inherit the kingdom. Verse 6 says God's wrath is upon the disobedient. I was simply using the phrase "against the Word of God" because that's in essence what these examples are.

Please use my other verses, like 1 John 2:3, with this to understand my point.

Hope that clarifies

 

[East2West]

Please, for the sake of other readers, will God save those who are not water baptised? Yes or No?

I believe you must be baptized in water for the forgiveness of sins. All of scriptural evidence for this is in my early posts in this forum.

If you have any questions concerning what I have already stated, feel free to ask

 

[RJ]

I believe you must be baptized in water for the forgiveness of sins. All of scriptural evidence for this is in my early posts in this forum.

If you have any questions concerning what I have already stated, feel free to ask

I fully understand your position but you still avoid my simple request, is it Yes or No?... Please, just simplly say one or the other to my question.Yes or No?

 

[East2West]

I fully understand your position but you still avoid my simple request, is it Yes or No?... Please, just simplly say one or the other to my question.Yes or No?

If you are trying to get me to say whether or not you will go to heaven, I am not the one who can make this call. That will be determined on the day of judgment. I can only tell you what the Bible says.

I personally wouldn't risk my salvation over it though. I wouldn't feel comfortable being there on judgment day having not had remission of sins the way God has commanded.

 

[RJ]

If you are trying to get me to say whether or not you will go to heaven, I am not the one who can make this call. That will be determined on the day of judgment. I can only tell you what the Bible says.

I personally wouldn't risk my salvation over it though. I wouldn't feel comfortable being there on judgment day having not had remission of sins the way God has commanded.

OK, Since you wont give a Yes or No, I respectfully still don't have and answer to my question!
Please, for my understand and others on this thread, a few other questions and you off the hook. I mean no disrespect to you and your belief and I am not trying to be a 'Wise Guy"; I am dead serious. This conversation may very well effect anothers forgiveness or salvation.


You said:
I believe you must be baptized in water for the forgiveness of sins.

1. So, if your not water baptised you have no forgiveness of sins, that's what you say, right?

2. Since there all kinds of scenarios to life, what about this one, you'll know where this one is going:

Your a solider about to die and your in the Sahara Desert. There is no water in thousand miles and your canteen is empty. You cry out to God, tell Him that you are sinful and ask for His son to enter your heart? In 5 minutes you die. Here's the obvious question; Did you die with out having your sins forgiven?

3. In all of your water baptism scriptures that you have stated, can you show me one where it says you MUST be baptized by water, where it uses the the word must as you state in your belief above?

 

[jiggyfly]

It's just what I see in the Bible, jiggyfly. I have studied different views of different popular denominations and come across different verses upon doing so. I teach what I read in God's Word. Nothing more, nothing less (Deut 4:2).

I study diligently to make my election sure (2 Pet 1:10) and to show myself approved unto God (2 Tim 2:15). In my studies, I find what God wants of me and keep His commands to know Him (1 John 2:3) and show Him that I love Him (John 14:15).

I am only telling you because you asked where I learned this. I am not trying to hold myself in any kind of regard at all. I don't deserve anything I have been given, especially not the chance to be saved. So I am just doing all I can to make sure I do what God wants me to do to thank Him for his grace and mercy and show Him that I love Him.

I wouldn't teach something I didn't think was in the Bible, the inspired Word of God (2 Tim 3:16 -- That's also another good verse to show that the scriptures are used for instruction in righteousness

The reason I was asking is because it seems to me to be in line with some religious teachings of the baptist/brethren denomination.
Either way we definitely disagree, my studies have produced a much different outlook. I believe that faith in Christ is the only way not belief in the bible. I also believe that the scriptures do not testify of themselves but rather testify of Jesus the Word of God, and that the scriptures were not given to us to be our guide but rather confirm that HolySpirit was sent to be our guide and teacher of all that we need to know and help us with becoming intimate with Christ.

So with saying all of that, I see no benefit of any further posts in this thread, we simply disagree and you seem to be very sure of your opinion. There are many good threads here at TJ that can help with your spiritual growth and understanding and I hope you will make use of them. God bless you .

 

[East2West]

OK, Since you wont give a Yes or No, I respectfully still don't have and answer to my question!
Please, for my understand and others on this thread, a few other questions and you off the hook. I mean no disrespect to you and your belief and I am not trying to be a 'Wise Guy"; I am dead serious. This conversation may very well effect anothers forgiveness or salvation.


You said:
I believe you must be baptized in water for the forgiveness of sins.

1. So, if your not water baptised you have no forgiveness of sins, that's what you say, right?

2. Since there all kinds of scenarios to life, what about this one, you'll know where this one is going:

Your a solider about to die and your in the Sahara Desert. There is no water in thousand miles and your canteen is empty. You cry out to God, tell Him that you are sinful and ask for His son to enter your heart? In 5 minutes you die. Here's the obvious question; Did you die with out having your sins forgiven?

3. In all of your water baptism scriptures that you have stated, can you show me one where it says you MUST be baptized by water, where it uses the the word must as you state in your belief above?

The first two situations have already been made clear according to scriptures I have provided in previous posts. All I can tell you is what the Bible says. It doesn't matter what I believe or you believe- only what the scriptures say, and you can decide for yourself the answers based on the scripture, which is all I can provide to you.

Your third question is new, so I will answer that one.
In Acts 9, Luke is telling how Saul heard the voice of the Lord asking Saul why he was persecuting Jesus. Acts 9:6 is our key verse here. Saul is talking to Jesus and says, "Lord what wilt thou have me to do?" Jesus replies and says, "Arise and go into the city, and it shall be told to thee what thou MUST do."

Luke tells of Paul's account of his own conversion experience in Acts 22. Acts 22:8-10 is Paul's version of what Luke said in Acts 9:6. Paul says that Jesus said, "Arise and go into Damascus, and there it shall be told thee of ALL things which are appointed for thee to do.

So we know that when Paul gets to the city he will learn 1) What he MUST do and 2) ALL things which are appointed for him to do.

So anyway, Paul tells us in Acts 22:14-16 these answers to what he MUST do and ALL things he must do... Acts 22:16 includes for him to "arise, be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord".

Anyway, the word must just means you have to do something. If you "must" follow the commands of the Bible (which I have given scripture for in a previous post in this thread), then it is commanded all over the Bible to be baptized.

I appreciate your interest in what the Bible says.

 

[East2West]

The reason I was asking is because it seems to me to be in line with some religious teachings of the baptist/brethren denomination.
Either way we definitely disagree, my studies have produced a much different outlook. I believe that faith in Christ is the only way not belief in the bible. I also believe that the scriptures do not testify of themselves but rather testify of Jesus the Word of God, and that the scriptures were not given to us to be our guide but rather confirm that HolySpirit was sent to be our guide and teacher of all that we need to know and help us with becoming intimate with Christ.

So with saying all of that, I see no benefit of any further posts in this thread, we simply disagree and you seem to be very sure of your opinion. There are many good threads here at TJ that can help with your spiritual growth and understanding and I hope you will make use of them. God bless you .

Thank you. I will check out the other threads and share as much Truth I can with them as well Have a great week.

You said that the Word does not guide us but rather the Holy Spirit. You may find it interesting that Eph 6:17 says the sword of the Spirit IS the word of God So really the Spirit DOES guide us, but it is through the Word of God that it guides us which has been inspired by that Spirit 2 Pet 1:21 and 2 Tim 3:16. The Holy Spirit guides us through the Word. The Spirit is the teacher of all we need to know just like you said. But it did that through the Word when it inspired those writers The sword of the Spirit is those Words of God and it cuts into our hearts and convicts us. And it does it by the Word of God written in the scripture (Heb 4:12)

 

[Maureen]

I would just like to add that just while doing bible reading it came to me that the thief on one of the crosses beside Jesus was forgiven and went that same day to paradise with the Lord, he wasnt baptized with water.
It didnt keep him out of heaven and surely hope it didnt keep my Dad out eitheras a saved man, as by reading and believing this in God's own word, reassures me.

Just thought I'd like it to be added.

 

[East2West]

I would just like to add that just while doing bible reading it came to me that the thief on one of the crosses beside Jesus was forgiven and went that same day to paradise with the Lord, he wasnt baptized with water.
It didnt keep him out of heaven and surely hope it didnt keep my Dad out eitheras a saved man, as by reading and believing this in God's own word, reassures me.

Just thought I'd like it to be added.

That one is easy. Matt 9:6 covers it in full. Jesus had the power while on Earth to forgive sins himself. Jesus is no longer on Earth to do this.

Plus, you can't prove he was or was not baptized as the scriptures do not say one way or another.

Great comment though. Keep them coming

 

[jiggyfly]

Thank you. I will check out the other threads and share as much Truth I can with them as well Have a great week.

You said that the Word does not guide us but rather the Holy Spirit. You may find it interesting that Eph 6:17 says the sword of the Spirit IS the word of God So really the Spirit DOES guide us, but it is through the Word of God that it guides us which has been inspired by that Spirit 2 Pet 1:21 and 2 Tim 3:16. The Holy Spirit guides us through the Word. The Spirit is the teacher of all we need to know just like you said. But it did that through the Word when it inspired those writers The sword of the Spirit is those Words of God and it cuts into our hearts and convicts us. And it does it by the Word of God written in the scripture (Heb 4:12)

I think maybe you misunderstood me earlier Amber, I wasn't asking you to look at the other threads to get your opinion or input but rather suggesting you read them to learn and grow spiritually.

Take some time and allow HolySpirit to reveal the truth of the scriptures.:wink:

 

[RJ]

The first two situations have already been made clear according to scriptures I have provided in previous posts. All I can tell you is what the Bible says. It doesn't matter what I believe or you believe- only what the scriptures say, and you can decide for yourself the answers based on the scripture, which is all I can provide to you.

Your third question is new, so I will answer that one.
In Acts 9, Luke is telling how Saul heard the voice of the Lord asking Saul why he was persecuting Jesus. Acts 9:6 is our key verse here. Saul is talking to Jesus and says, "Lord what wilt thou have me to do?" Jesus replies and says, "Arise and go into the city, and it shall be told to thee what thou MUST do."

Luke tells of Paul's account of his own conversion experience in Acts 22. Acts 22:8-10 is Paul's version of what Luke said in Acts 9:6. Paul says that Jesus said, "Arise and go into Damascus, and there it shall be told thee of ALL things which are appointed for thee to do.

So we know that when Paul gets to the city he will learn 1) What he MUST do and 2) ALL things which are appointed for him to do.

So anyway, Paul tells us in Acts 22:14-16 these answers to what he MUST do and ALL things he must do... Acts 22:16 includes for him to "arise, be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord".

Anyway, the word must just means you have to do something. If you "must" follow the commands of the Bible (which I have given scripture for in a previous post in this thread), then it is commanded all over the Bible to be baptized.

I appreciate your interest in what the Bible says.

Here is my finalt thread to you on tjis subject:
1. The first two situations have already been made clear according to scriptures I have provided in previous
Again, you refuse to answer either question with a simple yes or no, because you can't my friend! All you can do is mislead others!
Forgivess occured at the cross and for all!
Salvation occurs when you recieved Jesus Christ's resurrected life and is only for those who recieve it.

2. Jesus replies and says, "Arise and go into the city, and it shall be told to thee what thou MUST do."
Yes Christ wanted Paul to be baptised. In thoses days it was a sign that many used be recognized as a follwer of the Messiah. That is all many knew because the teaching of John the Baptist. It was a sign, much like circumscission was for the Jew. It has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with your forgiveness, much less, your salvation.

John the Bapstist said that He baptises with water but there is one greater than me that baptises with the Holy Spirit.
Jesus said that John baptised with water but I baptise with the Holy Spirit. Jesus never said that he baptises with WATER and the Holy Spirit.

Again ,your use of the word Must is your interpretation, it is not actually used anywhere in the Bible with regards to water baptism.
You even put it into "quotations" as if it where a word, directly out of scriptures.
I think you may need to read the following scripture:
Revelations 22:18-19

Since you won't answer the question directly, I will and will do it boldy:
NO, God will save you with out water because it absolutely has nothing to do with your forgiveness or salvation. God wll save you in a Baptistry or in the shower and neither one has anything to do with water!