What the Bible says about Water Baptism

[East2West]

I completely agree with Chad's view that infant baptism is unscriptural because of the need for repentance beforehand. I also agree with immersion, not sprinkling based on examples like the eunuch in Acts 8 going "down into the water" and Romans 6:3-6 (being buried and risen).

However, I have a sincere thing I want you all to look at. Chad said in times past, people realized that sprinkling was wrong. It means they once believed something that they thought was right, but it turned out to be wrong. I think we should look at the purpose of baptism and see if it is the thing that brings us into contact with the blood of Christ which washes away our sins.

I just want you to consider this with an open mind, and I say this with all sincerity. You all seem like a really nice people who have hearts that truly wants to do God's will.

I know you have probably heard what I am about to tell you before, but all I do is beg you to consider this.

Acts 2:38 says we are to be baptized "for the forgiveness of sins". Acts 22:16 says to be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Romans 6:3-6 says we are buried with Christ in baptism and raised a new person- this is how we come into contact with the blood that washes away our sins.

I want to submit to you that being baptized "for the remission of sins" means to be baptized for the purpose of receiving the forgiveness of sins. Like if you if you are awarded a grant "for studying medicine" then the purpose of the grant is to gain further knowledge. The purpose of the baptism is to gain that forgiveness.

However, I know many probably would argue that being baptized "for the forgiveness of sins" is being baptized "because of" the forgiveness you have already received. Like, if you take aspirin "for a headache", you take it "because" you already have a headache, not for the purpose of receiving one like I am arguing.

So how do we know if the baptism is for the purpose of receiving forgiveness of sins OR if it is because you already have forgiveness?

Well, I have the perfect verse to show you.

The exact same language is used in Matthew 26:28
For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

The underlined portions are the exact Greek words used in Acts 2:38 to describe baptism.

Now, this is saying that Jesus died for the remission (forgiveness) of sins. Would you agree that Jesus died "because" the sins were already forgiven? Or for the purpose of the sins being forgiven?

I would argue that baptism "for the remission of sins" in Acts 2:38 is for the purpose of the sins being forgiven just as in Matthew 26:28 Jesus blood was shed for the purpose of the sins being forgiven. Why would Jesus die if the sins had already been forgiven? Likewise, why would we be baptized if the sins were already washed away?

I just wanted you all to see this because I know you have a heart for God, and I am thankful that someone showed it to me, and I thought maybe some of you had never really seen it this way.

I hope you have a wonderful week. I look forward to hearing back from you if you have time, either way. Thank you very much for listening.

Please message me if any of you would like to study this further. I am only sincerely trying to help others get to heaven.

 

[evangeline]

Hi Amber,

I agree with you in one regard: as you've pointed out, only the shed, sinless blood of Jesus has the power to remove our sins.

Here's my two-cents worth:

Water baptism is simply the outward sign that our sins are (already) washed away. When we are baptised we make a public, visual statement that we have died to our old life and its temporary, worldly allegiances, and have been born again into a new life as a follower of Jesus with an eternal, heavenly allegiance.

Entering the water is like being buried with Christ and burying our old life; coming out of the water symbolises being ressurrected with Christ and being reborn into the new life. (Romans 6:3-4)

I do not believe that a person is saved through water baptism, however in New Testament times, baptism usually followed immediately after conversion so it was seen as one saving event.

For many Christians living in times and places hostile to Christianity, water baptism was/is a risky, dangerous political statement. By becoming a Christian and being baptised they could lose their livelihood, be ostrasized by family and friends, and even jailed or worse. Becoming a follower of Jesus, for many, is a BIG decision and baptism is simply the outward sign of the inward salvation.

Because it is fairly easy for westerners to make a decision to become a Christian (they have little to lose), many churches like to see whether the decision is real and lasting; and often they give new converts lessons in the basics of Christian faith. This delays baptism, and separates it from the conversion/salvation moment - somtimes by months and even years!


evangeline

 

[RJ]

I completely agree with Chad's view that infant baptism is unscriptural because of the need for repentance beforehand. I also agree with immersion, not sprinkling based on examples like the eunuch in Acts 8 going "down into the water" and Romans 6:3-6 (being buried and risen).

However, I have a sincere thing I want you all to look at. Chad said in times past, people realized that sprinkling was wrong. It means they once believed something that they thought was right, but it turned out to be wrong. I think we should look at the purpose of baptism and see if it is the thing that brings us into contact with the blood of Christ which washes away our sins.

I just want you to consider this with an open mind, and I say this with all sincerity. You all seem like a really nice people who have hearts that truly wants to do God's will.

You said above:
"However, I have a sincere thing I want you all to look at. Chad said in times past, people realized that sprinkling was wrong. It means they once believed something that they thought was right, but it turned out to be wrong. "

This is how I feel about the whole baptism thing. And again, I have been baptised by immersion.
I too say "please listen" and open your hearts to what I have to say.

Your use of Romans 6 is, as I believe, is wrong.
Hebrews 6:3-4
"Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life."

This reference to baptism in Hebrews is the baptism of the Holy Spirit and should never be used in the same context as water baptism.
AGAIN, I was Water Baptised by immersion and have the utmost respect for that but, that had or has nothing to do with Spirit Baptism or being "Born-Again".

Every strong supporter of Water Baptism, wants to quote Acts, as there command to be Water Baptised. Please listen to these facts:

1. Before His death, Jesus conducted himself as the "Perfect Athodox Jew" and was a follower of the Law. After His deah and resurrection, this very Law is said to kill you. Now, you are only saved by your belief in Grace.
2. What is this Grace that saves? This Grace is the same as the "Gospel That Saves" the gospel that St. Paul said that he preached: The death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
3. Acts is a historical document and not meant to be doctrine, certainly not the docrine of grace that Paul preached through out his ministry. And, this salvation through grace has nothing to do with water.
4. If "Water Baptism is required, then it is man doing something to insure or gain his salvation and that is according to the law, the "Law of Doing" and not of grace!
5. If a person, during "Water Baptism" truly opened up his heart and recieved the Holy Spirit, that is wonderful, praise God! But, the water is just the means, by wich, you made yourself available to "Jesus Knocking On Your Door". The water has nothing to do with you recieving the Holy Ghost spiritually, that can and does happen any where. God does not just make Himself available to those immersed in water.

I see too many that think that there salvation is dependent on water bapstism, and that my friend is the "Law", not "Gace" and can, in fact, lead to ones bondage to the water.

 

[East2West]

Grace and Holy Spirit Baptism

What is grace? Grace is the reason we are able to be saved in the first place. Without the grace of God, none of us could be saved because we are sinners and do not deserve any kind of salvation because of what awful things we have done against God.

However, because of the grace of God, he gives us the opportunity to be saved if we follow his commandments. It's not like we are doing anything to earn our salvation. None of us could do anything to make us worthy of the blessings God gives us. But we choose whether or not to obey the commands of God, one of which is to be baptized to wash away our sins (Acts 22:16).

Holy Spirit baptism is described vividly in Acts 2:1-4. Fire came upon the apostle's heads and they began to speak in tongues. This only happened to one other group- the house of cornelius (Acts 10). This is what Holy Spirit baptism is. If you see this happening, let me know, so I can be a part of it bc I have not been saved if this is still happening today.

Besides that, Peter asks in Acts 10:47 if any man can keep the house of Cornelius from water to be baptized even though they have already been baptized with the holy spirit. The answer is in Acts 10:48 where he commands them to be water baptized even though they have already received the holy spirit baptism.

Baptism doth also now save us (1 Peter 3:21). It's not the water that saves us. It is this act of faith (a good conscience toward God), believing that this is what brings you into contact with the blood of Christ which will wash away your sins (Romans 6:3-6, Acts 2:38, Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38).

We are baptized for the remission of sins- Acts 2:38, just as Jesus's blood was shed for the remission of sins- Mark 26:28.

How do we know if we know God? If we keep his commands (1 John 2:3). If there is no other reason you want to be baptized, do it because God commands it, and if you don't keep the commandments of God, you can't say you know God because you are a "liar and the truth is not in you" (1 John 2:4).

Have faith that God's plan works. That the remission of sins he promises through baptism-coming into contact with the death burial and resurrection of Christ through immersion in water- is real. We must have faith today and stop teaching that we don't have to do anything the Bible says.

It''s not "best" to do what the Bible says. It is the only way to get to heaven.

If you love me, keep my commands (John 14:15). It's all over the Bible! We have to stop saying that people who do what the Bible says are legalists and unsaved. We love God just as much as anyone else and only want to help bring as many people as possible to heaven as we can.

 

[Veracity]

If the entire Christian life were a full course meal, where choice of food was chosen by the host and prepared because it pleased Him, and then the same exact plate of food was set before each attender of the meal, some will eat it all and ask for more, others will appear to be eating with true enjoyment, others will pick at it and scrape to the side that which they don't find necessary to please the host.

He knows where each of those attending has sat. He knows who ate with true love of the food, who choked it down to appear to be enjoying the meal, and who scraped the food out into a plant container in the corner.

 

[RJ]

What is grace? Grace is the reason we are able to be saved in the first place. Without the grace of God, none of us could be saved because we are sinners and do not deserve any kind of salvation because of what awful things we have done against God.

However, because of the grace of God, he gives us the opportunity to be saved if we follow his commandments. It's not like we are doing anything to earn our salvation. None of us could do anything to make us worthy of the blessings God gives us. But we choose whether or not to obey the commands of God, one of which is to be baptized to wash away our sins (Acts 22:16).

Holy Spirit baptism is described vividly in Acts 2:1-4. Fire came upon the apostle's heads and they began to speak in tongues. This only happened to one other group- the house of cornelius (Acts 10). This is what Holy Spirit baptism is. If you see this happening, let me know, so I can be a part of it bc I have not been saved if this is still happening today.

Besides that, Peter asks in Acts 10:47 if any man can keep the house of Cornelius from water to be baptized even though they have already been baptized with the holy spirit. The answer is in Acts 10:48 where he commands them to be water baptized even though they have already received the holy spirit baptism.

Baptism doth also now save us (1 Peter 3:21). It's not the water that saves us. It is this act of faith (a good conscience toward God), believing that this is what brings you into contact with the blood of Christ which will wash away your sins (Romans 6:3-6, Acts 2:38, Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38).

We are baptized for the remission of sins- Acts 2:38, just as Jesus's blood was shed for the remission of sins- Mark 26:28.

How do we know if we know God? If we keep his commands (1 John 2:3). If there is no other reason you want to be baptized, do it because God commands it, and if you don't keep the commandments of God, you can't say you know God because you are a "liar and the truth is not in you" (1 John 2:4).

Have faith that God's plan works. That the remission of sins he promises through baptism-coming into contact with the death burial and resurrection of Christ through immersion in water- is real. We must have faith today and stop teaching that we don't have to do anything the Bible says.

It''s not "best" to do what the Bible says. It is the only way to get to heaven.

If you love me, keep my commands (John 14:15). It's all over the Bible! We have to stop saying that people who do what the Bible says are legalists and unsaved. We love God just as much as anyone else and only want to help bring as many people as possible to heaven as we can.

Please, let me get this straight, You are a believer in water baptism and you are saying it is a requirement to be saved?

 

[East2West]

Having Faith Means Trusting and Doing What God Says

Please, let me get this straight, You are a believer in water baptism and you are saying it is a requirement to be saved?

I am Brother Joe. I am a believer in the Bible and keeping the commands that God has given us because I love Him so much and am ever thankful for the undeserved life I have been given by my precious Creator through his tender grace and mercy.

I know everyone on this forum feels the same that I do- so humbled to be loved by our God- so loved that He would send His Son to Earth to be tortured and killed at our expense.

The Bible examples of conversions are always connected to baptism (Acts 8:38, Acts 10:47, Acts 22:16, Mark 16:16 and more). Even Acts 10:47 tells those who were holy spirit baptized to be water baptized.

The baptism is described as a going "down into the water" in Acts 8:38 and a "burial and resurrection" (romans 6:3-6) process that brings us into contact with the blood of Christ to wash away our sins (Acts 22:16), to give us that remission/forgiveness of sins (Acts 2:38) just as Jesus blood was shed for that remission (Matt 26:28). It's not the water alone that gives us the remission (1 peter 3:21), but the faith we have that what God has told us to do will allow our old sinful selves to be crucified and buried in Christ through baptism and when we are raised out of the water, we are raised as new creatures, walking in the newness of life, being alive to Christ. (romans 6:3-11). All our sins are washed away!

Because of his love and grace, God gave Noah the chance to be saved by telling Noah to build the ark. Noah had faith that what God commanded him to do would save him, and so he built the ark because God told him to. It's not like Noah was "doing" something to "save himself" as so many people accuse me of today. Would you accuse Noah of that? Noah did it because God told him to do it. Noah had faith and trusted God that building the ark would save him. He followed the commands of God, and he was saved. I likewise have that same faith that baptism will save me as God has promised (1 Peter 3:21).

Please have no hard feelings toward me. I am only striving to do what pleases my Heavenly Father in having faith in what He says through His Holy Word and doing what He would want me to do according to His commands. I only want to encourage others and teach others to live for God so no one can look at me on the judgment day and say, "You knew this? Why didn't you tell me?"

I love you all dearly and admire your hearts and desire to study God's Word and do His will.

 

[RJ]

I am Brother Joe. I am a believer in the Bible and keeping the commands that God has given us because I love Him so much and am ever thankful for the undeserved life I have been given by my precious Creator through his tender grace and mercy.

I know everyone on this forum feels the same that I do- so humbled to be loved by our God- so loved that He would send His Son to Earth to be tortured and killed at our expense.

The Bible examples of conversions are always connected to baptism (Acts 8:38, Acts 10:47, Acts 22:16, Mark 16:16 and more). Even Acts 10:47 tells those who were holy spirit baptized to be water baptized.

The baptism is described as a going "down into the water" in Acts 8:38 and a "burial and resurrection" (romans 6:3-6) process that brings us into contact with the blood of Christ to wash away our sins (Acts 22:16), to give us that remission/forgiveness of sins (Acts 2:38) just as Jesus blood was shed for that remission (Matt 26:28). It's not the water alone that gives us the remission (1 peter 3:21), but the faith we have that what God has told us to do will allow our old sinful selves to be crucified and buried in Christ through baptism and when we are raised out of the water, we are raised as new creatures, walking in the newness of life, being alive to Christ. (romans 6:3-11). All our sins are washed away!

Because of his love and grace, God gave Noah the chance to be saved by telling Noah to build the ark. Noah had faith that what God commanded him to do would save him, and so he built the ark because God told him to. It's not like Noah was "doing" something to "save himself" as so many people accuse me of today. Would you accuse Noah of that? Noah did it because God told him to do it. Noah had faith and trusted God that building the ark would save him. He followed the commands of God, and he was saved. I likewise have that same faith that baptism will save me as God has promised (1 Peter 3:21).

Please have no hard feelings toward me. I am only striving to do what pleases my Heavenly Father in having faith in what He says through His Holy Word and doing what He would want me to do according to His commands. I only want to encourage others and teach others to live for God so no one can look at me on the judgment day and say, "You knew this? Why didn't you tell me?"

I love you all dearly and admire your hearts and desire to study God's Word and do His will.

O.K., so your saying that God only saves those that "go down into the water"?

 

[evangeline]

Repent!

Hi Amber and Brother Joe

Acts 2:38
Amber, you've mentioned the verse, Acts 2:38, a few times, saying that baptism is for the remission of sins; but you keep leaving out the first word in Peter's instruction here: "Repent!"

The full verse is:
"Peter replied, 'Repent and be baptised everyone of you in the Name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness/remission of your sins and you will receive that gift of the Holy Spirit.' " Acts 2:38


Faith and Repentance
It is when we put our faith in Jesus and repent of our sins that we are forgiven, not when we are water baptised, unless it happens at the same time. See my point about New Testament baptisms, which usually happened immediately after conversion, above. [Some of my points in my previous post were unclear so I have edited and clarified them.]

There are so many New Testament verses which speak of forgiveness/remission of sins that don't mention water baptism at all. (e.g. Acts 11:43; Colossians 1:13-14; Titus 3:5-7; 1 John 1:9.) If water baptism is essential to salvation why does Paul rarely mention it in his letters? There are several mentions in Acts of people coming to faith in Jesus with no mention of baptism.


Mark 16:16
Amber, I noticed you have used Mark 16:16 as a text a few times. Please notice that it doesn't say that if we are not baptised we will be damned; it says that unbelivers are damned. (Also, we are not told about Dionysius or Damaris' baptism in Acts 17:34.)


Romans 6:3-4
Brother Joe, I can't see how Romans 6:3-4 can possibly be talking about Holy Spirit baptism. What do you bury when you are baptised in the Holy Spirit??? The whole meaning of Romans chapter 6 is about sin and the old self, not about the Holy Spirit. Paul is encouraging his readers here to be dead to sin but alive in Christ. (Compare with 1 Peter 3:18 and 20b-22, which if not read carefully seems to be saying that we are saved through the washing of water baptism . . . or does it?.)


Holy Spirit Baptism
Brother Joe, While the gift of the Holy Spirit is promised to believers, and we receive a deposit when we are saved, Holy Spirit baptism may come before water baptism (like with Paul in Acts 9:17-18, and Cornelius and his family in Acts 10:44-48), at water baptism, or some time after (like with the Samaritan Christians in Acts 8:14-17.)


Interesting subject! And an important one.


evangeline

 

[jiggyfly]

t''s not "best" to do what the Bible says. It is the only way to get to heaven.

Have you got some scripture to back this up? If the bible is the only way to get to heaven what of all the people who died before there was a bible?

 

[evangeline]

Holy Spirit baptism is described vividly in Acts 2:1-4. Fire came upon the apostle's heads and they began to speak in tongues. This only happened to one other group- the house of cornelius (Acts 10). This is what Holy Spirit baptism is. If you see this happening, let me know, so I can be a part of it bc I have not been saved if this is still happening today.

Many people were filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues in the New Testament, not just the Apostles or Cornelius's household (Acts 10:46-47).

Acts 2:1 says that on the day of Pentecost they were ALL together. Whose's ALL? See Acts 1:13-15.

I believe all these believers were filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues, not just the (11) Apostles. We know for sure that the believers in Ephesus spoke in tounges (Acts 19:6) as did those in Corinth (1 Corinthians 12:10, 28, 13:1, most of chapter 14 is on prophecy and tongues.)

Many believers spoke in tongues in New Testament times and now. And while the traditional church may have tried to suppress manifestations of the Holy Spirit, they have never disappeared.

I also speak in tongues, most days in prayer, and occasionally prophetically. This started happening many years AFTER I was saved. [I started praying for the baptism of the Holy Spirit when I was about 21, I was saved when I was about 10.]

It is still happening today. If you would like to be baptised with the Holy Spirit, seek God and ask for this gift. Read Luke 11:5-13!!!
Or go to a (good) Pentecostal Church.


evangeline

 

[evangeline]

The baptism is described as a going "down into the water" in Acts 8:38 and a "burial and resurrection" (romans 6:3-6) process that brings us into contact with the blood of Christ to wash away our sins . . .

Amber, where in the Bible does it say that baptism brings us into contact with Jesus' blood? This is a strange idea with no scriptural support.


evangeline

 

[East2West]

Hi Amber and Brother Joe

Acts 2:38
Amber, you've mentioned the verse, Acts 2:38, a few times, saying that baptism is for the remission of sins; but you keep leaving out the first word in Peter's instruction here: "Repent!"

The full verse is:
"Peter replied, 'Repent and be baptised everyone of you in the Name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness/remission of your sins and you will receive that gift of the Holy Spirit.' " Acts 2:38


Faith and Repentance
It is when we put our faith in Jesus and repent of our sins that we are forgiven, not when we are water baptised, unless it happens at the same time. See my point about New Testament baptisms, which usually happened immediately after conversion, above. [Some of my points in my previous post were unclear so I have edited and clarified them.]

There are so many New Testament verses which speak of forgiveness/remission of sins that don't mention water baptism at all. (e.g. Acts 11:43; Colossians 1:13-14; Titus 3:5-7; 1 John 1:9.) If water baptism is essential to salvation why does Paul rarely mention it in his letters? There are several mentions in Acts of people coming to faith in Jesus with no mention of baptism.


Mark 16:16
Amber, I noticed you have used Mark 16:16 as a text a few times. Please notice that it doesn't say that if we are not baptised we will be damned; it says that unbelivers are damned. (Also, we are not told about Dionysius or Damaris' baptism in Acts 17:34.)


Romans 6:3-4
Brother Joe, I can't see how Romans 6:3-4 can possibly be talking about Holy Spirit baptism. What do you bury when you are baptised in the Holy Spirit??? The whole meaning of Romans chapter 6 is about sin and the old self, not about the Holy Spirit. Paul is encouraging his readers here to be dead to sin but alive in Christ. (Compare with 1 Peter 3:18 and 20b-22, which if not read carefully seems to be saying that we are saved through the washing of water baptism . . . or does it?.)


Holy Spirit Baptism
Brother Joe, While the gift of the Holy Spirit is promised to believers, and we receive a deposit when we are saved, Holy Spirit baptism may come before water baptism (like with Paul in Acts 9:17-18, and Cornelius and his family in Acts 10:44-48), at water baptism, or some time after (like with the Samaritan Christians in Acts 8:14-17.)


Interesting subject! And an important one.


evangeline

Repentance is an essential part of salvation. Luke 13:3 says unless you repent you will perish. You cannot be saved unless you repent. All Bible conversions are always associated with someone feeling sorry for the things they have done that are against Jesus's teachings. They turn away from their old sinful lives and decide to have their sins washed away through baptism (Acts 22:16). They first repent as they did in Acts 2:38 that you mentioned and then are baptized to wash away their sins and crucify that old sinful person as Romans 6:3-11 teaches to do through baptism. I agree with you completely that Romans 6 is talking about water baptism just like you said. You bury the dead old sinful man and are resurrected in the newness of life to live like Christ.

Every verse that mentions baptism does not mention faith or believing. Every verse that mentions believing does not mention repentance always or the fact that you must hear the word from some source (romans 10:17). Different verses mention different things that are essential to salvation. That doesn't mean you can leave one out just because one verse says believe, one verse says repent, and one verse says be baptized.

If Abraham had only faith and decided not to sacrifice his son, would his faith have meant anything to God? NO because he didn't obey God's commands. You can't leave something out that God tells you to do just because one part of what God says is to have faith and the other part of what he says is to repent and the other part is to be baptized.

There is not a verse in the Bible that says faith alone will save you. Those of you who believe this are adding to the word of God which is condemned (Deut 4:2).

In fact, James 2:17 says faith is dead if it is alone without the works which God has commanded us.

Works alone can't save us either. We are not to say "look at us, look what we are doing to save ourselves!". That would be boasting of works which is the ONLY thing about works that is condemned (Eph 2:9). Noah didn't say, "look at me! I built this ark to save myself!" But he STILL built the ark or he would not have lived! you must DO what God says or you will perish.

It is faith combined with works and only because of the grace of God that we are even able to be saved. Without grace, we would not be saved. Without faith, we would not be saved. Without works, we would not be saved.

We must use the Bible in its entirety and follow it completely.


Jigglyfly,

The scriptures ARE here for people to obey and when the scriptures weren't they had Moses and the prophets (luke 16:29) and the apostles who preached the Word (Mark 16:15).

 

[East2West]

Amber, where in the Bible does it say that baptism brings us into contact with Jesus' blood? This is a strange idea with no scriptural support.


evangeline

Rev 1:5 says Jesus washed our sins away with His blood. Acts 22:16 says be baptized and wash away your sins. If our sins are washed away through baptism, and Jesus blood is what washes the sins away, then how else could you come into contact with the blood?? Romans 6:3-11 makes it clear that baptism is where we come into contact with the death of Christ where he shed his blood.

I think the scriptures support my statement fully.

 

[RJ]

Rev 1:5 says Jesus washed our sins away with His blood. Acts 22:16 says be baptized and wash away your sins. If our sins are washed away through baptism, and Jesus blood is what washes the sins away, then how else could you come into contact with the blood?? Romans 6:3-11 makes it clear that baptism is where we come into contact with the death of Christ where he shed his blood.

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I think the scriptures support my statement fully.

I am sorry, if I understand what your trying to say, then I will have to say, with all due respect, your understanding is convoluted at the best. Please, let me explain and then I will relent to your own understanding and yield any further comments:

Rev 1:5 says Jesus washed our sins away with His blood.
This is true and of course occurred at the cross. It is not you that literally come into contact with Jesus blood but your sin. This is the "finality of the cross" that, Jesus Christ shed His blood and died for the forgiveness of your sins, all your sins. If your use of baptism above, means water baptism, you couldn't be more wrong!
Water Baptism has absolutely nothing to do sin. God says that there is no remission of sins without the shedding of blood. And that was true with the blood of bulls, lambs and goats in the Old Testament and it is the only truth in Christ's blood in the New Testament! His blood washes us still. What Jesus Christ did over 2000 years ago was a finished act and all are born forgiven and water has nothing to do with that!
Acts 22:16 says be baptized and wash away your sins. If our sins are washed away through baptism, and Jesus blood is what washes the sins away, then how else could you come into contact with the blood??
Acts is a historical document and is not to be used as doctrine, especially water baptism. Historically, this is what they did in those days. It was a movement, a way of coming together and showing support for this new preaching that John The Baptist was doing. It had nothing to do with actual "washing away of sins" then (Jesus hadn't even died for sins yet) and it has nothing to do with sin now. I personally was water baptized by immersion after being saved and I know it has nothing to do with that salvation.
Your combination of Jesus blood washing and water washing is a diluted idea, no pun intended!
Romans 6:3-11 makes it clear that baptism is where we come into contact with the death of Christ where he shed his blood.
Again, this has NOTHING to do with water! Verse 6 is all about "Right Living" and a new life in Christ!
Jesus said (paraphrasing): " John The Baptist baptizes by water, I baptize by the Holy Spirit." This is the baptism, the baptism of the Holy Spirit, being "Born-Again", is what these verses refer to. Your sins are already taken care of and long before you were "Born-Again". And this Spirit Baptism is what causes your old sinful nature to die with Jesus and to be baptized into His resurrection upon your mortal death.

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[RJ]

Hi Amber and Brother Joe

Acts 2:38
Amber, you've mentioned the verse, Acts 2:38, a few times, saying that baptism is for the remission of sins; but you keep leaving out the first word in Peter's instruction here: "Repent!"

The full verse is:
"Peter replied, 'Repent and be baptised everyone of you in the Name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness/remission of your sins and you will receive that gift of the Holy Spirit.' " Acts 2:38


Faith and Repentance
It is when we put our faith in Jesus and repent of our sins that we are forgiven, not when we are water baptised, unless it happens at the same time. See my point about New Testament baptisms, which usually happened immediately after conversion, above. [Some of my points in my previous post were unclear so I have edited and clarified them.]

There are so many New Testament verses which speak of forgiveness/remission of sins that don't mention water baptism at all. (e.g. Acts 11:43; Colossians 1:13-14; Titus 3:5-7; 1 John 1:9.) If water baptism is essential to salvation why does Paul rarely mention it in his letters? There are several mentions in Acts of people coming to faith in Jesus with no mention of baptism.


Mark 16:16
Amber, I noticed you have used Mark 16:16 as a text a few times. Please notice that it doesn't say that if we are not baptised we will be damned; it says that unbelivers are damned. (Also, we are not told about Dionysius or Damaris' baptism in Acts 17:34.)


Romans 6:3-4
Brother Joe, I can't see how Romans 6:3-4 can possibly be talking about Holy Spirit baptism. What do you bury when you are baptised in the Holy Spirit??? The whole meaning of Romans chapter 6 is about sin and the old self, not about the Holy Spirit. Paul is encouraging his readers here to be dead to sin but alive in Christ. (Compare with 1 Peter 3:18 and 20b-22, which if not read carefully seems to be saying that we are saved through the washing of water baptism . . . or does it?.)


Holy Spirit Baptism
Brother Joe, While the gift of the Holy Spirit is promised to believers, and we receive a deposit when we are saved, Holy Spirit baptism may come before water baptism (like with Paul in Acts 9:17-18, and Cornelius and his family in Acts 10:44-48), at water baptism, or some time after (like with the Samaritan Christians in Acts 8:14-17.)


Interesting subject! And an important one.


evangeline

Romans 6:3-4
Brother Joe, I can't see how Romans 6:3-4 can possibly be talking about Holy Spirit baptism. What do you bury when you are baptised in the Holy Spirit??? The whole meaning of Romans chapter 6 is about sin and the old self, not about the Holy Spirit. Paul is encouraging his readers here to be dead to sin but alive in Christ. (Compare with 1 Peter 3:18 and 20b-22, which if not read carefully seems to be saying that we are saved through the washing of water baptism . . . or does it?.)
With all due respect, an emphatic: no, no, no!
CHAPTER 6 is about "The New Life in Christ. How do you get "New Life"? You must be "Born -Again". How do you get "Born-Again", by being bapstised in the Holy Spirit!!! And what are you when your baptised by the "Holy Spirit"?.... you become dead to sin and alive in Christ!
You are saved through faith(belief) in grace, right? Well, wait a minute, St.Paul said that you are saved through the gospel which he preached! So, then which is it grace or gospel if both statements are of God?
They are both the same!
1 COR 15
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the GOSPEL which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

It is God's grace, because it is a gift, not of your own works, it is free! And this grace is the gospel and the gospel is the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ......nothing to do with water as that would be your works and you could boast!

 

[East2West]

"It is God's grace, because it is a gift, not of your own works, it is free! And this grace is the gospel and the gospel is the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ......nothing to do with water as that would be your works and you could boast!"[/QUOTE] from Joe Johnson

Would you tell this to Noah? Noah had faith in God. God told him he would only be saved if he built an ark with very specific instructions (Gen 7:1-5). Noah did exactly as God told him to do, and he was saved. He was saved because of God, not because of himself. But he still had to DO what God told him to do or he would not have been saved. It was Noah's physical works that saved him. But only because of the grace of God. God didn't have to give Noah that chance. Noah had faith and did as God commanded.

I am only doing and teaching what is commanded in the Bible. Man cannot baptize someone with the holy spirit as you mentioned before. Only Jesus can do this (Matt 3:11). Jesus commanded the apostles in Matt 28:19 to baptize all nations. This could not have been holy spirit baptism because man is not capable of performing that.

Choose not to get baptized if you want, but know that you heard from God's Word the command to be baptized, and I am only trying to help people obey God's commands because many have been taught wrong by denominations their whole lives...

When God wants to know why you didn't want to obey this command, you can tell him what you told me- that you didn't want to seem like you were trying to save yourself. In Samuel, Saul was supposed to destroy a whole city, but he saved the best animals for sacrifices to God. He thought he had obeyed the commands- he was doing a great thing to save the best to sacrifice to God- what great intentions! But 1 Sam 15:22 says better to obey than sacrifice or ANYTHING we as men could come up with.

Choose not to obey if you want. Choose to teach people its ok not to be baptized or its just "best" to be baptized. That's not what God commands of us.

1 Pet 3:20 uses the same example of Noah that I did. It says that even in the days of Noah many were disobedient and only 8 who would believe they had to do what God said were saved by the water. And then 1 Pet 3:21 says that today, just as the water in the days of Noah, we have that baptism- not just removing physical filth, but understanding that the connection between belief, repentance- our conscience- and coming into contact with the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ through this process which washes away our sins (rom 6:3-6, acts 22:16)

Baptism is for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38) just like Jesus blood was shed for the remission of sins (Matt 26:28).

What's the point of water baptism if we don't have to do it? If you tell me it is just an outer expression of faith, show me that in the scripture. I can't find that ever as a reason to be baptized. The only reason I see from the Word of God is for the forgiveness of sins (Acts 2:38).

 

[jiggyfly]

It''s not "best" to do what the Bible says. It is the only way to get to heaven.

Amber have you got any scripture to support your statement here?

Holy Spirit baptism is described vividly in Acts 2:1-4. Fire came upon the apostle's heads and they began to speak in tongues. This only happened to one other group- the house of cornelius (Acts 10).

What do you think about this scripture.

Act 19:1-7 While Apollos was in Corinth, Paul traveled through the interior provinces. Finally, he came to Ephesus, where he found several believers. [fn] "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" he asked them. "No," they replied, "we don't know what you mean. We haven't even heard that there is a Holy Spirit." "Then what baptism did you experience?" he asked. And they replied, "The baptism of John." Paul said, "John's baptism was to demonstrate a desire to turn from sin and turn to God. John himself told the people to believe in Jesus, the one John said would come later." As soon as they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in other tongues and prophesied. There were about twelve men in all.

 

[RJ]

"It is God's grace, because it is a gift, not of your own works, it is free! And this grace is the gospel and the gospel is the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ......nothing to do with water as that would be your works and you could boast!"

from Joe Johnson

Would you tell this to Noah? Noah had faith in God. God told him he would only be saved if he built an ark with very specific instructions (Gen 7:1-5). Noah did exactly as God told him to do, and he was saved. He was saved because of God, not because of himself. But he still had to DO what God told him to do or he would not have been saved. It was Noah's physical works that saved him. But only because of the grace of God. God didn't have to give Noah that chance. Noah had faith and did as God commanded.

I am only doing and teaching what is commanded in the Bible. Man cannot baptize someone with the holy spirit as you mentioned before. Only Jesus can do this (Matt 3:11). Jesus commanded the apostles in Matt 28:19 to baptize all nations. This could not have been holy spirit baptism because man is not capable of performing that.

Choose not to get baptized if you want, but know that you heard from God's Word the command to be baptized, and I am only trying to help people obey God's commands because many have been taught wrong by denominations their whole lives...

When God wants to know why you didn't want to obey this command, you can tell him what you told me- that you didn't want to seem like you were trying to save yourself. In Samuel, Saul was supposed to destroy a whole city, but he saved the best animals for sacrifices to God. He thought he had obeyed the commands- he was doing a great thing to save the best to sacrifice to God- what great intentions! But 1 Sam 15:22 says better to obey than sacrifice or ANYTHING we as men could come up with.

Choose not to obey if you want. Choose to teach people its ok not to be baptized or its just "best" to be baptized. That's not what God commands of us.

1 Pet 3:20 uses the same example of Noah that I did. It says that even in the days of Noah many were disobedient and only 8 who would believe they had to do what God said were saved by the water. And then 1 Pet 3:21 says that today, just as the water in the days of Noah, we have that baptism- not just removing physical filth, but understanding that the connection between belief, repentance- our conscience- and coming into contact with the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ through this process which washes away our sins (rom 6:3-6, acts 22:16)

Baptism is for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38) just like Jesus blood was shed for the remission of sins (Matt 26:28).

What's the point of water baptism if we don't have to do it? If you tell me it is just an outer expression of faith, show me that in the scripture. I can't find that ever as a reason to be baptized. The only reason I see from the Word of God is for the forgiveness of sins (Acts 2:38).[/QUOTE]


LOOK, I JUST WROTE MANY REPLIES TO YOUR ABOVE STATEMENTS, THEN ERASED THEM. YOUR ARE SET IN YOUR WAYS AND I IN MINE AND LET'S LEAVE IT AT THAT!
BUT PLEASE ANSWER THIS ONE LAST QUESTION FOR ME AND THE REST OF THOSE ON THIS THREAD:

Are you saying that God will only save you if you go into a Baptistry and, are you saying that you must go into the water to be 'Born-Again" and Jesus is the way and the truth but only through water?

 

[RJ]

from Joe Johnson

Would you tell this to Noah? Noah had faith in God. God told him he would only be saved if he built an ark with very specific instructions (Gen 7:1-5). Noah did exactly as God told him to do, and he was saved. He was saved because of God, not because of himself. But he still had to DO what God told him to do or he would not have been saved. It was Noah's physical works that saved him. But only because of the grace of God. God didn't have to give Noah that chance. Noah had faith and did as God commanded.

I am only doing and teaching what is commanded in the Bible. Man cannot baptize someone with the holy spirit as you mentioned before. Only Jesus can do this (Matt 3:11). Jesus commanded the apostles in Matt 28:19 to baptize all nations. This could not have been holy spirit baptism because man is not capable of performing that.

Choose not to get baptized if you want, but know that you heard from God's Word the command to be baptized, and I am only trying to help people obey God's commands because many have been taught wrong by denominations their whole lives...

When God wants to know why you didn't want to obey this command, you can tell him what you told me- that you didn't want to seem like you were trying to save yourself. In Samuel, Saul was supposed to destroy a whole city, but he saved the best animals for sacrifices to God. He thought he had obeyed the commands- he was doing a great thing to save the best to sacrifice to God- what great intentions! But 1 Sam 15:22 says better to obey than sacrifice or ANYTHING we as men could come up with.

Choose not to obey if you want. Choose to teach people its ok not to be baptized or its just "best" to be baptized. That's not what God commands of us.

1 Pet 3:20 uses the same example of Noah that I did. It says that even in the days of Noah many were disobedient and only 8 who would believe they had to do what God said were saved by the water. And then 1 Pet 3:21 says that today, just as the water in the days of Noah, we have that baptism- not just removing physical filth, but understanding that the connection between belief, repentance- our conscience- and coming into contact with the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ through this process which washes away our sins (rom 6:3-6, acts 22:16)

Baptism is for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38) just like Jesus blood was shed for the remission of sins (Matt 26:28).

What's the point of water baptism if we don't have to do it? If you tell me it is just an outer expression of faith, show me that in the scripture. I can't find that ever as a reason to be baptized. The only reason I see from the Word of God is for the forgiveness of sins (Acts 2:38).

LOOK, I JUST WROTE MANY REPLIES TO YOUR ABOVE STATEMENTS, THEN ERASED THEM. YOUR ARE SET IN YOUR WAYS AND I IN MINE AND LET'S LEAVE IT AT THAT!
BUT PLEASE ANSWER THIS ONE LAST QUESTION FOR ME AND THE REST OF THOSE ON THIS THREAD:

Are you saying that God will only save you if you go into a Baptistry and, are you saying that you must go into the water to be 'Born-Again" and Jesus is the way and the truth but only through water?[/QUOTE]
East2West:
Please, do you have an answer to the above question?