This is beside the point. The scripture you quoted did not refer to Christians.
He did not say they were not Christians; He said they did not know the Father nor Himself.
I know it is a common error among Christians today in citing that if Jesus never knew you, then you are not saved as paraphrasing Matthew 7:21-23 & Luke 13:24-30 but they would be wrong. Any saved believer that are engaged in dead works that deny Him or any work of iniquity ( which is the same as denying Him ) ( Titus 1:16 ) then He will deny them as per 2 Timothy 2:12 BUT yet even if they had erred and gone astray to the point of not believing in Him any more; He still abides in them as per 2 Timothy 2:13 . So any iniquity that is on that foundation, it will be burned away off of that foundation and thus still saved albeit they will be denied entrance to the Marriage Supper in Heaven; this is where the vessels unto dishonor in His House comes from.
So that is why the call to depart from iniquity is given even to former believers in 2 Timothy 2:18-21 so they can be received & thus transformed by the Bridegroom as vessels unto honor in His House to attend the Marriage Supper in Heaven.
2 Tim 2:10-13 Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 The saying is trustworthy, for: If we have died with him, we will also live with him; 12 if we endure, we will also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us; 13 if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot deny himself.
I am not getting the same interpretation as you do. Paul is saying in verse 10 that he wants to endure for the elect (us), so that we too may be saved (like him).
There is something to point out that is significant about obtaining WITH their salvation in Christ Jesus and that is that eternal glory that comes with our salvation. As you read into 2 Timothy 2:18-21 you will see that the eternal glory that comes with out salvation for looking to Him to help us to discern and to depart from iniquity IS to be THAT vessel unto honor in His House. THAT is the eternal glory that comes with our salvation in Christ Jesus.
He then clairifes in verse 11 that ''if'' we have died with Him (Jesus), we will also live with Him. OSAS (Once saved always saved) through and through.
The term "if" being relevant to the readers reading this for when or if they should die since when Christ appears, those abiding in Him will be transformed to meet the Lord in the air,.
2 Tim 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
A Christian would never do this. Knowingly overthrow the faith of some speaks to false teachers. Wolf in sheeps clothing. Non-Christians with Christians.
The example cited in verse 18 about saying the resurrection has past already is not the only error out there that can over throw a Christian in their faith in Jesus Christ.
There are some that teach that the evolution theory is true and try in vain to read the Genesis account as meeting the evolutionary time table. I had worked with the son of a pastor in the past that the son admitted that his father does not believe in God but still preaches from the pulpit. It bothers the son and the wife of the pastor but the pastor maintains his pastoral position as a means for a earning a living. I had passed along a book anonymously since the son shared this in confidence with me, called "The Collapse of Evolution" by Huse, in the hopes that the Pastor would read it and to give more credence to the unchanging word of God rather than the everchanging "facts" of that evolution theory.
The evolution theory has been cited as a major cause for the crisis of faith for believers in every denomination; and yet some members here would teach that theistic evolution as being possible, unknowingly supporting a false science that causes many to falla way from the faith in the Bible and thus in Jesus Christ as well..
2 Tim 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
I love this verse. Especially the underlined. Just as God made no mistake in casting the devil out for eternity. He makes no mistake in grafting someone in, for eternity.
The second part of this verse is to do with our ambassadorial duties. Let's strive to be blameless. We will not be perfect. But let's be good ambassadors for God. Nothing, absolutely nothing to do with losing salvation. When it comes to departing from iniquity / being a good ambassador for Christ, the wolves and fake Christians are exposed. As I said earlier, the teaching on sin, exposes non Christians in the assembly. They were never isolated in another fashion. ''Remove the sinner who commits incest''. Mortal sins. Unrepentant. Not Christian.
2 Tim 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
This is not speaking against OSAS. It is simply stating that if one hate what is wicked, they will find Jesus / be made a vessel unto honor. Clearly stating that we each have the ability to do so. It is an exhortation to the assembly. To sinners. To Non-Christians in attendance. 'If a man'. Not 'if a Christian'.
Unfortunately, you are not addressing what makes one a vessel unto dishonor in His House. If scripture testify that in heeding the call to depart from iniquity, one purges himself to be that vessel unto honor, then the vessels unto dishonor THAT ARE in His House are those that did not depart from iniquity. Then you can understand 2 Timothy 2:10 for how Paul wishes others obtain that "eternal glory" that comes with our salvation in Christ Jesus by departing from iniquity to be received by the Bridegroom as a vessel unto honor in His House. Then the castaways.. those denied entrance to the Marriage Supper for being found in unrepentant iniquity is where the vessels unto dishonor comes from that are in His House still.
2 Tim 2:24-26 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
Yet another example of the teaching on sin and works identifying the difference between Christians and non-Christians. Note the ''the servant of the Lord must''. It may as well say ''the servant of the Lord must not murder, must not commit incest''. Do you see the point I am making? Then note the then ''the Lord will give knowledge of the truth''. IE Just as James 4:8 tells us, 'draw near to God and He will draw near to you...…. ''''''cleanse your hearts / stop wickedness'''''.
The only line that is contentious is the ''that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil''. We know all the unsaved are in a snare of the devil. We also know that Christians can be in a snare of sin. IE Contention. But, then the verse says, ''who are taken captive by him at his will''. Now does that sound like a Christian? Not according to 1 John 3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.
Yet to recover one from the snare of the devil is to signify what? They are His for them to be recovered, right? Did not Paul prophesy that some will depart from faith in giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils in 1 Timothy 4:1-2 ?
Did not Paul cite in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 of 2 events where the Lord will deal with the falling away from the faith ( as in God judging His House first at the pre great trib rapture event ~ 1 Peter 4:17-19 ~ ) as Paul cites that the iniquity was already at work in his day that will cause many to fall away in these latter days that we are living in.
What is that iniquity? Believing that you can receive the Holy Spirit apart from salvation after a sign of tongues which comes with no interpretation and/or after other sensational signs in the flesh in confusion like "slain in the spirit" and "holy laughter" movement and Pennsacola Outpouring and the Toronoto's Blessings and even Ernest Angeley's Healing Crusade.
How do I know that is the iniquity? Because Paul reminds the believers of the traditions taught of us in verses 13-15 as reproving this iniquity as cited before in 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 KJV
2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
If I may interject here; this damnation is becoming a castaway at the pre great trib rapture in being damned forever as a vessel unto dishonor in His House. Believers may think that they were never saved, but being a vessel unto dishonor in His House is a damnation; like Esau having given up his birth right for a meal and like the prodigal son giving up his inheritance for wild living and although still son, can never have it back. If you disagree, you have to discern why a vessel unto dishonor are still in His House when the call to depart from iniquity and heeding that call is what makes a believer to be received as a vessel unto honor in His House.
Now I go on with the reading where Paul reproves the iniquity about a believer thinking they can receive the Holy Spirit apart from salvation or "again" after a sign.
2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
Now Paul goes on in this same epistle in 2 Thessalonians 3:1-7 by addressing those that are at risk of being damned that are among us: as wicked unreasonable men that have not faith that do not follow after the traditions taught of us and are disorderly as those in these movements of the 'spirit" are with falling backwards or some other loss of self control and yet God is not the author of confusion 1 Corinthians 14:32-33 ; as Paul cites the Lord touching us to heed the commandment to withdraw from them, but not to treat them as the enemy, but admonish them as brothers still.
2 Thessalonians 3:14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.
15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.
So you may want to reconsider with Him at that throne of grace about calling any one not a Christian; we can say they are not abiding in Him as His disciple, but we cannot say they are not saved or not His when we are to admonish unrepentant believers and even former believers as brothers still.
So without throwing the baby out with the bath water. Let's grasp that a Christian does sin. But we have to draw a line on mortal sins and unrepentant sin. As we are ''never'' taken captive by the devil's will.
If believers thinks tongues are for private use as in self edification when we are to read the scripture for our edification ( 2 Timothy 2:15-16 ) or suddenly a change in mode to the Holy Spirit making intercessions for them when God wants us to pray and the Holy Spirit cannot use tongues for uttering His own intercessions as per John 16:13 in ALL Bibles for those to know why only the KJV has it right in Romans 8:26-27 as His groanings are even silent as well, then they have been seduced by spirits in allowing tongues to come inbetween them and God as being taken captive by the devil's will when God wants us to pray, and know what we had prayed for so when the Son answers the prayer, we give thanks to the Father in Jesus's name for answers to prayers ( John 14:13-14 KJV )
1 Thessalonians 5:17 Pray without ceasing. 18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
Would God interrupt our praying to cut in for speaking in tongues privately? No. Thus another line of discernment regarding this supernatural tongues of the world reported as such in Isaiah 8:19 as not of Him at all where God's gift of tongues are of other men's lips to speak unto the people as rpophesied to do and why tongues manifested in the assembly will always comes with interpretation to profit the body withal and the gifts are not ganed by having another drink of the One Spirit ( 1 Corinthians 12:7-13 KJV ).
A Christian has laid their life down for God. Anything less will not qualify us to be grafted into His house per Matt 16:24.
So, based on that premise. Let's say there was this guy in the army who genuinely, selflessly took a bullet for me. Previously he bullied me. He was always ugly to me. But then, this one act of true redemption by him toward me, toward our relationship. I will allow this person in my house. I will trust his love for me and my family. As per John 15:13, he has shown the greatest act of love possible.
Now if this person occasionally swore at me. Will I kick him out? No. I would know it was temporal and a ''mistake''. Nobody except God is perfect Mark 10:18.
But, what if this person, stabbed me and sent me to icu? Will I kick him out? Yes. If his intentions were true and he wanted to do it again Why? Because he must have taken that bullet for me by accident.
Now we, make mistakes of judgement. God does ''NOT'' make the mistake of allowing a devil into His house!
God is greater than our mistakes and nothing will separate us from the love of God; not even when saved believers go astray thinking they can receive the Holy Spirit again apart from salvation after a sign of tongues, but because of this falling away from the faith, God will judge His House first to restore the wayward to the path of righteousness for His name's sake, and although many will be left behind when the Bridegroom comes, He will get every last one that has His seal.
Matthew 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. 12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? 13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.
15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church,
let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
As the church is to do, and even if the church is failing that, God will do and it comes full circle where regardless of the 99 in the barn safely, He will get even that one lost sheep left behind; but of course, the prophesy does paint that only a few will be found in the faith in these latter days when the Bridegroom comes.
Luke 18:7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? 8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
That is why God is coming to judge His House first as the Bridegroom before He comes back again to earth after the great tribulation as King of kings to deal with that son of perdition and the world's armies marching against Jerusalem.
