What is hell?

[betteroffdead]

Does hell mean eternal torment or simply that you cease to exist?

I am an only child. When my parents divorced my mother didn’t think I was worth demanding child support for, and the ***** donor never paid what the divorce judge told him to pay anyway. I’ve had no contact with him since 1983. I wouldn’t give you 2 cents for all of his family combined. My mother’s family is all dead except for a nephew, but I wouldn’t give 2 cents for them either.

My mother has been nothing but a detriment to me since the day I was born- 10 weeks premature. I was supposed to have been stillborn; she couldn’t even do that right.

I’ve lost count of how many times my mother has told people with more than 2 children, “I learn from my mistakes- one husband, one child”.

My mother has lupus and I am her only caregiver. And I myself have congestive heart failure, severe high blood pressure and arthritis that will likely cripple me if I live another 10 years. I took bp drugs for almost 2 years and now wish I had OD’d on them before I decided to stop taking them altogether due to the side effects- that my doctor says don’t exist.

I grew up wanting to be a doctor. My high school grades were very good. But my mother exiled me 600 miles to go to a college that I didn’t want any part of, so I barely graduated with a degree in biology.

When I got out of college I wanted to open a non-profit college prep school for Christian students. I contacted about 250 local churches, but not one of them had classroom space it was willing to let me rent or borrow. I gave up on the idea and was working as a private tutor when my mother’s brother died and I inherited a fair amount of cash. But since my mother handled the paperwork my money went into her bank account. She doesn’t want to spend any of it.

I wanted to use the money to build a school. I could afford the materials but I couldn’t find any church that is willing to provide the necessary land and volunteer labor.

I have looked for a pastoral position, but of the hundreds of churches I have contacted only one asked me to go through any kind of interview process- a freewill Baptist church in Mississippi asked me to fill out a questionnaire. But that church hasn’t even bothered to acknowledge that it received my answers.

Churches where I live won’t answer their phone during business hours, and churches on the net won’t even acknowledge my prayer requests.

I would like to buy some property and set up an organic farm. My father’s parents were expert vegetable growers; my mother’s mother came from a North Carolina farm family. I’ve been around gardening my whole life and I have had my own garden almost every year since 1981. But when I told my mother what I want to do she pitched a fit and essentially says I am too stupid to know how to run a farm. I have the know-how, but I will need help with the physical labor involved because of my health. I cannot find anyone willing to help.

I am in constant physical pain because of my health. I am in constant emotional pain because of my existence. And nobody gives a damn.

So will I end up in hell if I kill myself?

 

[Brother Mike]

Noboday cares???

Well, before you decide to throw in the towel, I would give God a shot at this.

Reading your post, I can see you lack faith, and faith is not based on past hurts or experiences, it is not based on how we physically feel. Faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God, it's based on what God said in His Word, and not some emotional past junk we did not have victory in.

I see three things about your mother that are also a concern.... Mother kept the money, Mother exiled you away from college, mother says you suck at farming.
You know it's written that a man should leave his mother and father?? (Mark 10:7) We should respect our parents, and walk in love. They don't have to make our choices for us.

As for wanting to be a pastor, has God called you to Pastor? Do we need a Pastor that allows the enemy to depress them? I'll say that if God called you to be a Pastor, then there is no force on earth that can stop that. If God called you to build something, then nothing can get in your way. We are the only ones that can get in our own way, and it's never God's fault.

If your going to feel sorry for yourself, then nothing can be done. You claim people don't care about your projects, but do you care about other people's projects. We often have to learn to serve first and be faithful over someone's else stuff. All I heard about is what YOU wanted to do, and how it failed. In God, things don't fail, and that pretty much tells me you were doing what you planed. It's got to be God's plan, and he has a plan for everyone.

As for going to hell if you kill yourself?? lots of doctrine on that and opinions. You wrote a lot of stuff that goes against what God said.... So it stands to reason that your not going to get what the Word says you can have. Israel learned this the hard way coming out of Egypt, and all the ones 20 or older died..... not a great outcome.

God told them they were getting the promise land with Milk and Honey. They said they were going to get snake bit, sword chopped, and would starve to death. They refused to get on God's side about things with the things they were saying and believing.

God said by his stripes you are the healed. What are you saying?

God gave many examples in the word about sending people to help in other people's path to accomplish goals, you said nobody gives a damn.

get the idea?? Don't be like Israel, because they are an example the bible says of what not to do.

Stand up, and say this.....

I will not be moved anymore by the comments or actions of my mother, Lord I forgive her, and they are no longer a hindrance to me.
Lord, I plan to obey and do your will, I know you will see me though because you are faithful that promised. I will have great victory in my life, and I know if I put your Word first and believe it, that every circumstance will change.

I decide today to believe what you said in your Word, if I read it, I will believe it, and not question. I am going to walk my life by faith Father, faith in what you said. I will make no more excuses for failure because I am going to make it. When I fall, I am going to get back up, and head straight to you Lord and then I will keep going. I am not one to ever give up.
I know your will for my life father, it is stronger and stronger in me each day, I hear you perfectly father, as you said your sheep hear your voice, a stranger voice or the wrong thing I will not follow.

Father you said in your word that life and death are in the power of the tongue, and I will have to eat the fruit of what I say. Jesus said that If I believe in my heart, I will have what I say (Mark 11:23) I believe that father, and believe that I am a product of my own mouth. I now call my body healed in the name of Jesus, and I command you Satan to take your hands off of me. I rebuke depression, and uncertainty in the mighty name of Jesus. I have the Spirit of peace, Love, power, faith and sound mind. I have the mind of Christ, and not confused anymore.
Lord direct me in what I should study, you said that if I study to show myself approved that I would be a workman and divide your word properly. Doors will open for me that were never open as I put your Word first in my life. Thank you Lord for still planing to use me as your gifts and callings are without repentance. Glory to God.

I will continue to repeat these things every day until they are real, I will walk by faith and not be moved. I thank you for it lord in Jesus name.

It's your choice brother...........God has people just for you that will care, but you have to take your life serious and care... Nothing is impossible if you will believe.

Jesus Is Lord
Brother Mike.

 

[sharen]

What does God say about your life, your mother, your future, your gifts and his will for your life.

If you don't ask, you'll never know - and believe me, he'll have things to say about all of them. A lot of things.

 

[rjones]

I'm going to ask you a very important question and I pray that you will respond with an answer. Is Jesus Christ your Lord and Savior?

 

[MelodyC]

I am in constant physical pain because of my health. I am in constant emotional pain because of my existence. And nobody gives a damn.

So will I end up in hell if I kill myself?

First of all if you haven't repented and received Christ you will certainly not live eternally with God. Only Saved Believers have eternal life.

Best not kill yourself off, you have much to work out yet.

You say "no one cares". Not True. That is the Devil trying to get you so depressed to kill yourself off before you find out about Jesus and what he did for you.

You see JESUS cares. God cares. They care so much that God sacrificed His ONLY Son for you.

JN 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

Not only that God doesn't expect for us to get our lives right for him or jump through hoops for Him. God pours out His love on us even though we have done nothing to deserve it.

RO 5:6 You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7 Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

You say no one cares. God cares, Jesus cares. They demonstrated their love with the highest sacrifice one person can do for another.

JN 15:9 "As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command. 15 I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master's business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit--fruit that will last. Then the Father will give you whatever you ask in my name. 17 This is my command: Love each other.

The verses above is talking about those who have responded to God's love and repented and been forgiven for their Sins and become Children of God or Saved Believers. The Bible tells us God did the ultimate thing for us which he calls his friends. He died for us. He chose us. Jesus didn't hold back in that last hour as he prayed. Jesus did think about not going through it but in the End Jesus agreed to do God's Will ('not my will by thine be done').

Finally when you choose to repent and accept the precious gift of Eternal Life God gives us through the blood of His Son you will find that there is nothing that can come between us and His love.

RO 8:31 What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all--how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died--more than that, who was raised to life--is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36 As it is written:

"For your sake we face death all day long;
we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered."

RO 8:37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

God loves us so very much and has demonstrated it to us. You are much loved and God wants you to be made whole and healed of your past hurts and find your place in this world. For God has a purpose and plan for each one of His Children.Good plans for each one of us.

JER 29:11 For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. 12 Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. 13 You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. 14 I will be found by you," declares the LORD.

Praying you will think about what I have shared. Praying the Lord will remove all the hopelessness from you that has been planted there by the enemy. Praying you will come to know and understand the Love of God and desire to be His Child. Praying you will be led by the Spirit to repent and believe so you may receive LIFE Eternal. Amen

JN 10:7 Therefore Jesus said again, "I tell you the truth, I am the gate for the sheep. 8 All who ever came before me were thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. 9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. He will come in and go out, and find pasture. 10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

 

[Jaareshiah]

Does hell mean eternal torment or simply that you cease to exist?

I am an only child. When my parents divorced my mother didn’t think I was worth demanding child support for, and the ***** donor never paid what the divorce judge told him to pay anyway. I’ve had no contact with him since 1983. I wouldn’t give you 2 cents for all of his family combined. My mother’s family is all dead except for a nephew, but I wouldn’t give 2 cents for them either.

My mother has been nothing but a detriment to me since the day I was born- 10 weeks premature. I was supposed to have been stillborn; she couldn’t even do that right.

I’ve lost count of how many times my mother has told people with more than 2 children, “I learn from my mistakes- one husband, one child”.

My mother has lupus and I am her only caregiver. And I myself have congestive heart failure, severe high blood pressure and arthritis that will likely cripple me if I live another 10 years. I took bp drugs for almost 2 years and now wish I had OD’d on them before I decided to stop taking them altogether due to the side effects- that my doctor says don’t exist.

I grew up wanting to be a doctor. My high school grades were very good. But my mother exiled me 600 miles to go to a college that I didn’t want any part of, so I barely graduated with a degree in biology.

When I got out of college I wanted to open a non-profit college prep school for Christian students. I contacted about 250 local churches, but not one of them had classroom space it was willing to let me rent or borrow. I gave up on the idea and was working as a private tutor when my mother’s brother died and I inherited a fair amount of cash. But since my mother handled the paperwork my money went into her bank account. She doesn’t want to spend any of it.

I wanted to use the money to build a school. I could afford the materials but I couldn’t find any church that is willing to provide the necessary land and volunteer labor.

I have looked for a pastoral position, but of the hundreds of churches I have contacted only one asked me to go through any kind of interview process- a freewill Baptist church in Mississippi asked me to fill out a questionnaire. But that church hasn’t even bothered to acknowledge that it received my answers.

Churches where I live won’t answer their phone during business hours, and churches on the net won’t even acknowledge my prayer requests.

I would like to buy some property and set up an organic farm. My father’s parents were expert vegetable growers; my mother’s mother came from a North Carolina farm family. I’ve been around gardening my whole life and I have had my own garden almost every year since 1981. But when I told my mother what I want to do she pitched a fit and essentially says I am too stupid to know how to run a farm. I have the know-how, but I will need help with the physical labor involved because of my health. I cannot find anyone willing to help.

I am in constant physical pain because of my health. I am in constant emotional pain because of my existence. And nobody gives a damn.

So will I end up in hell if I kill myself?

I can relate to being a caregiver, for my wife of 32 years is paralyzed on her left side, confined to bed about 22 hours of the day, in a wheel-chair, must wear a diaper that is changed about every 2 hours, and is mentally ill. And this is a 24/7 "job". My mother was confined to a bed the last ten years of her life with rheumatoid arthritis (she had this disease for most of 40 years), with my dad taking care of her during this ordeal just after his retirement at the age of 65. So, I can appreciate your feelings.

Sadly, many a parent for their children or children toward their parents lacks genuine love. Jesus said that during our time period, called by Jesus his (invisible) "presence" at Matthew 24:27, 37 and 39, that "because of the increasing of lawlessness the love of the greater number will cool off."(Matt 24;12)

Genuine or godly love is "cooling off ", even among those who call themselves "Christian". Jesus said that among genuine Christians, godly love would be exhibited. He told his eleven faithful apostles on the night before his death: "I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves.”(John 13:34, 35)

As far there being a "hell" whereby people are eternally tormented, no such place exist. The churches have absorbed the belief of a "eternal hell" from pagan sources. When the King James Bible was written, the words "hell" did not mean torments. According to the Encarta Dictionary, "Old English hel(l) . Ultimately from an Indo-European word meaning “to conceal".(Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2005.)

When one looks objectively at the Bible, the meaning of the Hebrew word she’ohl´and both Greek words hai´des and Ge´en·na (English, “Gehenna”, Matt 5:22; 10:28) that have been translated as "hell" by various Bibles, such as the King James Bible, becomes clarified. To show that he is not one who torments people, God told the nation of Israel that "the children of Judah have done evil in my sight, saith the Lord: they have set their abominations in the house which is called by my name, to pollute it. And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart."(Jer 7:30,31, King James Bible)

At Jeremiah 19:5, God again repeats what he had said earlier: "They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind:"(King James Bible) and at Jeremiah 32:35, whereby God says: "And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin."(King James Bible)

If God calls the burning of the Israelites sons and daughters an "abomination", a "sin", then how could he burn people in "hell" and be free of guilt himself ? He couldn't, he would be a hypocrite. This though, is not the case, for it never entered into God's mind to do such wickedness nor will it ever. At Ecclesiates 9:5, 6, Solomon wrote that "the living know that they shall die; but the dead know not anything....their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished." Thus, the dead "know not anything", but are now non-existent. Jesus said that "all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out."(John 5:28,29) Those who are in God's memory are awaiting a resurrection or bringing back to life again.

Hence, what is the Bible "hell" ? It is simply mankind's common grave. Revelation 20:13 says: "And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell (Greek hai´des) delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works."(King James Bible) Thus, due to the mistranslation of the Hebrew word she’ohl´and both Greek words hai´des and Ge´en·na, people have been taught by the churches that God torments "sinners" in "hell".

However, to further show that "hell" is not a place of fiery torments, Jonah, while in the belly of the fish, cried out: "I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the Lord, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice."(Jonah 2:2, King James Bible) Was Jonah in a fiery place of torments ? No. Rather, he was in the belly of a fish that God had appointed to swallow him.

Thus Jonah was merely "concealed" from sight, just as the old English saying of "helling potatoes" meant that these were, not roasted, but just buried in the ground or in an underground cellar. Hence, those in the Bible "hell" are merely in the grave, awaiting a resurrection from the dead, as Revelation 20:13 brings to our attention.

The apostle Paul told Felix, procurator of the Roman province of Judea, that "there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.("just and unjust", King James Bible)"(Acts 24:15) Hence, even those considered as "unrighteous"(Young's Bible), "unjust"(King James Bible), "wicked"(International Standard Version) will receive a resurrection from the dead, to be given an opportunity to please their Creator. The churches have indeed distorted the meaning of "hell".

The Bible gives the only real and permanent hope. At Revelation 21:3-5, it says concerning God's promise toward the earth: "With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away. And the One seated on the throne said: “Look! I am making all things new.” Also, he says: “Write, because these words are faithful and true.”

Thus, sickness, sorrow and death will be forever removed from the earth, for those who are "meek" or teachable ones by God.(Matt 5:5) King David wrote under inspiration: "But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth, and they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.....The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it."(Ps 37:11, 29)

 

[betteroffdead]

What does God say about your life, your mother, your future, your gifts and his will for your life.

If you don't ask, you'll never know - and believe me, he'll have things to say about all of them. A lot of things.

But I have asked- and have been ignored.

 

[betteroffdead]

I'm going to ask you a very important question and I pray that you will respond with an answer. Is Jesus Christ your Lord and Savior?

By whose standards? I accepted Christ as my Lord and Savior when I was 4 years old. But most self-proclaimed Christians damn me to hell because I don't go to church since I refuse to have fellowship with heretics and hypocrites- which is all you will find in churches where I live.

I've also recently realized that no established church congregation, that I am aware of, is sound in doctrine and/or practice.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />

 

[betteroffdead]

You say "no one cares". Not True. That is the Devil trying to get you so depressed to kill yourself off before you find out about Jesus and what he did for you.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />

You see JESUS cares. God cares.

If Jesus cares about me so much, why has He allowed me to be in the fix I am in? When your life on earth has been nothing but misery, the promise of eternal life is easily taken to be a threat from someone who hates you.

 

[betteroffdead]

I can relate to being a caregiver, for my wife of 32 years is paralyzed on her left side, confined to bed about 22 hours of the day, in a wheel-chair, must wear a diaper that is changed about every 2 hours, and is mentally ill. And this is a 24/7 "job". My mother was confined to a bed the last ten years of her life with rheumatoid arthritis (she had this disease for most of 40 years), with my dad taking care of her during this ordeal just after his retirement at the age of 65. So, I can appreciate your feelings.

Sadly, many a parent for their children or children toward their parents lacks genuine love. Jesus said that during our time period, called by Jesus his (invisible) "presence" at Matthew 24:27, 37 and 39, that "because of the increasing of lawlessness the love of the greater number will cool off."(Matt 24;12)

Genuine or godly love is "cooling off ", even among those who call themselves "Christian". Jesus said that among genuine Christians, godly love would be exhibited. He told his eleven faithful apostles on the night before his death: "I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves.”(John 13:34, 35)

As far there be a "hell" whereby people are eternally tormented, no such place exist. The churches have absorbed the belief of a "eternal hell" from pagan sources. When the King James Bible was written, the words "hell" did not mean torments. According to the Encarta Dictionary, "Old English hel(l) . Ultimately from an Indo-European word meaning “to conceal".(Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2005.)

When one looks objectively at the Bible, the meaning of the Hebrew word she’ohl´and both Greek words hai´des and Ge´en·na (English, “Gehenna”, Matt 5:22; 10:28) that have been translated as "hell" by various Bibles, such as the King James Bible, becomes clarified. To show that he is not one who torments people, God told the nation of Israel that "the children of Judah have done evil in my sight, saith the Lord: they have set their abominations in the house which is called by my name, to pollute it. And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart."(Jer 7:30,31, King James Bible)

At Jeremiah 19:5, God again repeats what he had said earlier: "They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind:"(King James Bible) and at Jeremiah 32:35, whereby God says: "And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin."(King James Bible)

If God calls the burning of the Israelites sons and daughters an "abomination", a "sin", then how could he burn people in "hell" and be free of guilt himself ? He couldn't, he would be a hypocrite. This though, is not the case, for it never entered into God's mind to do such wickedness nor will it ever. At Ecclesiates 9:5, 6, Solomon wrote that "the living know that they shall die; but the dead know not anything....their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished." Thus, the dead "know not anything", but are now non-existent. Jesus said that "all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out."(John 5:28,29) Those who are in God's memory are awaiting a resurrection or bringing back to life again.

Hence, what is the Bible "hell" ? It is simply mankind's common grave. Revelation 20:13 says: "And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell (Greek hai´des) delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works."(King James Bible) Thus, due to the mistranslation of the Hebrew word she’ohl´and both Greek words hai´des and Ge´en·na, people have been taught by the churches that God torments "sinners" in "hell".

However, to further show that "hell" is not a place of fiery torments, Jonah, while in the belly of the fish, cried out: "I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the Lord, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice."(Jonah 2:2, King James Bible) Was Jonah in a fiery place of torments ? No. Rather, he was in the belly of a fish that God had appointed to swallow him.

Thus Jonah was merely "concealed" from sight, just as the old English saying of "helling potatoes" meant that these were, not roasted, but just buried in the ground or in an underground cellar. Hence, those in the Bible "hell" are merely in the grave, awaiting a resurrection from the dead, as Revelation 20:13 brings to our attention.

The apostle Paul told Felix, procurator of the Roman province of Judea, that "there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.("just and unjust", King James Bible)"(Acts 24:15) Hence, even those considered as "unrighteous"(Young's Bible), "unjust"(King James Bible), "wicked"(International Standard Version) will receive a resurrection from the dead, to be given an opportunity to please their Creator. The churches have indeed distorted the meaning of "hell".

The Bible gives the only real and permanent hope. At Revelation 21:3-5, it says concerning God's promise toward the earth: "With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away. And the One seated on the throne said: “Look! I am making all things new.” Also, he says: “Write, because these words are faithful and true.”

Thus, sickness, sorrow and death will be forever removed from the earth, for those who are "meek" or teachable ones by God.(Matt 5:5) King David wrote under inspiration: "But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth, and they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.....The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it."(Ps 37:11, 29)

If hell does not mean eternal torment, it would be an improvement over what I have always known.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />

 

[Jaareshiah]

If hell does not mean eternal torment, it would be an improvement over what I have always known.

There is no "eternal torment" that the churches have taught for centuries. This false religious teaching is diameterically opposed to 1 John 4:8, whereby the apostle John says that "God is love." If no loving human father would hold his child's hand over a fire to hear him scream in dreadful agony, no matter what he did, then how could our Creator, Jehovah God, be seen as someone who would torment individuals forever, for "crimes" committed during their lifetime of 70 or 80 years ?

The teaching of a "hellfire" dates long before Jesus stepped on the earth. In the book The History of Hell, by Alice K. Turner (1993), noted this about the doctrine or teaching of a "hell": "The first accounts of the Land of the Dead that we know about were written nearly four thousand years ago on baked clay tablets from the Tigris-Euphrates Valley north of the Persian Gulf in Iraq. Sumer is the earliest name we have for the region....The Sumerians were conquered by the Semitic Akkadians, and the area began to be known as Babylonia, after the principal city, Babylon. The Sumerians, Akkadians, Babylonians, and neighboring Assyrians are frequently grouped as Mesopotamians, and they shared many of the same beliefs and myths, though their gods sometimes went by different names." Thus, from ancient Babylon and the surrounding area came forth the belief of a "hellfire."

This belief continued down through the centuries to the classical Greek period, before Alexander the Great conquered Medo-Persia in 331 B.C.E. In the book Histoire des enfers (The History of Hell, 2005), by Georges Minois, page 50, it said: "Of all classical Greek philosophers, the one who has had the greatest influence on traditional views of Hell is Plato (428 ?-347 B.C.E.)”

The New Encyclopædia Britannica (1988), Volume 25, page 890, states: “From the middle of the 2nd century AD Christians who had some training in Greek philosophy began to feel the need to express their faith in its terms . . . The philosophy that suited them best was Platonism [the teachings of Plato].” Thus, the Babylonian teaching of "hell" that Plato taught was now absorbed into so-called "Christianity".

Hence, the teaching of a "hellfire" began some four thousand years ago on the plains of Mesopotamia, at Babylon. In the book of Revelation, a mystic city, called Babylon the Great, is seen in vision by the apostle John. The ancient city of Babylon is the prototype of Babylon the Great. Ancient Babylon was known for its paganistic or false religion, and from which false religious teachings and doctrines originated, such as hellfire, immortality of the soul, and a trinity of gods.

At Revelation 18, after Babylon the Great's fall, "another voice out of heaven say(s): “Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues. For her sins have massed together clear up to heaven, and God has called her acts of injustice to mind."(Rev 18:4, 5) Thus, Babylon the Great, the world empire of false religion, is to be called to justice by God for "her sins have massed together clear up to heaven," including the teaching of a pagan and God dishonoring hellfire.

For those who disregard God's laws and guidelines, these will receive, not eternal torment, but everlasting death. Revelation 20:15 says that "whoever was not found written in the book of life was hurled into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:14 says that "the lake of fire" is, not eternal torment, but "the second death". Even "death and Hades" ("hell", King James Bible) is "hurled into the lake of fire", in which these are destroyed. Thus, death (it might be called the first death or Adamic death) as a result of the sin from our forefather, Adam, will be gone forever. The "second death" is a judgment from Jehovah God whereby a person is dead forever, with no hope of a resurrection.

Some of the religious leaders in Jesus day, Jesus said were guilty of "blasphemy against the holy spirit", and would never receive forgiveness.(Matt 12:31, 32) These were "hurled into the lake of fire" upon their death, never to live again. On the other hand, the masses in the grave (Hebrew sheol or Greek hades) will be resurrected to life in order to be given an opportunity to live forever on the paradise earth. While hanging upon the torture stake alongside Jesus, one of the two evil-doers asked Jesus to remember him when he ' gets into his kingdom.' Jesus responded: "Truly I tell you today, You will be with me in Paradise.”(Luke 23:42, 43)

The only paradise that this Jewish evil-doer was aware of was the original one in the Garden of Eden.(Gen 1:26-31) Thus, Jesus gave hope of "the real life" (1 Tim 6:19) to the evil-doer that Jehovah God had intended for obedient mankind. Had Adam not disobeyed God's command to not eat from the "tree of knowledge of good and bad"(Gen 2:17), then no one would have received the "sentence of death" and no one would have gone to heaven as members of God's kingdom.

As Adam's offspring, we could have now been enjoying life without end in perfection on a paradise earth in perfect harmony instead of feeling sick, depressed and dejected. However, at Revelation 21:3-5, Jehovah God says clearly that all forms of oppression is to be permanently removed, "making all things new."

 

[betteroffdead]

There is no "eternal torment" that the churches have taught for centuries. This false religious teaching is diameterically opposed to 1 John 4:8, whereby the apostle John says that "God is love." If no loving human father would hold his child's hand over a fire to hear him scream in dreadful agony, no matter what he did, then how could our Creator, Jehovah God, be seen as someone who would torment individuals forever, for "crimes" committed during their lifetime of 70 or 80 years ?

If God doesn’t want people to suffer physical torment, why has He allowed me to have arthritis? And why has He commanded death by stoning for certain crimes?
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And just what is that lake of fire all about in Revelation?

 

[rjones]

Thanks for responding. I believe that you have many defensive walls up in your life due to others inflicting emotional and mental pain upon you. I also read where you are also in constant physcial pain as well. All this trauma can surely cause a person to be withdrawn and defensive on multi levels.
I dare not say to you "I understand your pain" because I do not. But I can sat that I can relate on some levels. My mother has had crippling degenerative arthritis for decades now and is totally dependant on all kinds of meds. for her arthritis as well as high blood pressure, nerve meds., pain meds. etc. etc. etc. So I do know a little.
You have asked me this question.

By whose standards?

My answer is ....By God's standards. The Word of God.
Not man. Not religious people. Not by what others have said.
But by what God says are His standards. Jesus teaches us what those are in the Gospels.

I accepted Christ as my Lord and Savior when I was 4 years old.

Let me ask you. From what sins did you repent from at 4 years old? How did your live change? Did you fully understand that once you accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior that your old life had passed away and that you are a new creation in Jesus Christ at that time?
I'm only asking you to better understand where you are right now in Jesus after many years have past since your initial salvation experience.

But most self-proclaimed Christians damn me to hell because I don't go to church since I refuse to have fellowship with heretics and hypocrites- which is all you will find in churches where I live.

WOW! Your obviously mad, hurt, judgemental, and walled up high here!
Jesus said that we will know His own by the fruit that they bare. You should read Matthew 7. It's also obvious that you have your eyes fixed on man and not Jesusbecause you can readily spot "heretics and hypocrites". Is it possible that your eyes of faith have gone blind?

Friend, man will let you down but Jesus will never let you down.

I don't know where you live but it's hard for me to believe that you've been to Every church in your area for you to use the word ALL in your statement.

Seek Jesus friend. He's waiting for you to truly lay down your burdens and recieve from Him your every need. He is the only one who can give you joy, peace and healing.

 

[MelodyC]

If Jesus cares about me so much, why has He allowed me to be in the fix I am in? When your life on earth has been nothing but misery, the promise of eternal life is easily taken to be a threat from someone who hates you.

There is no Heaven on this Earth.

Since the fall of man everybody lives with suffering.

Jesus suffered and died. Jesus was betrayed by those closest to Him. Judas sold him to the authorities for 30 pieces of silver. His disciples abandoned him and Peter denied him. Jesus went to the Cross alone, beaten, reviled, torchered.

No one escapes suffering in this world because Sin entered back in the Garden of Eden.

So you have two choices. To allow it to completely overcome you or to repent and take hold of the only escape to God's Kingdom were there is no Misery or Suffering.

You are at the moment pitying yourself as if you are the only one on this planet that is suffering. I am sure if I gave you some idea of what I sufferred in my own life up until now you would find you have it easy by comparison.

I suffer from Bi-polar and get severe depression, when I was young teenager I almost suceeded in killing myself on 2 occassions. In my twenties I often had things in my life that brought me to thoughts of suicide. So I know what you are going through. I also know you are the only one that can make to choice to make a change to your own life.

Repenting and receiving salvation is only the start. Then you need healing from your past and you need to learn to forgive other that hurt you. There is more but I leave it there.

I am able to control my bi-polar these days. I still get depressed from time to time. That is the nature of my illness. However I no longer think of suicide. I have HOPE in Christ. I know I am going to God's Kingdom where the peace and freedom from suffering and depression. I am certainly not letting go of that to satisfy a pity party here in this life I am living right now. Even though I have just gone through having cancer. Life here on Earth for me has been with lots of limitations, disappointments, rejections and health issues. I know it is all temporary.

For the person who is not Saved. This is as good as it gets. For those of us who have received Salvation through Christ. This is as bad as it gets.

Your choice. Decide to stay miserable or choose to the Lord Jesus and you will have assistance to help you cope with this life until it is your time to GO and be with the Lord.

Having been there done that I will not entertain your self abuse and choice to remain in your pit of depression and despair.

 

[B-A-C]

Jaareshiah: There is no "eternal torment" that the churches have taught for centuries.

Jaareshiah: If no loving human father would hold his child's hand over a fire to hear him scream in dreadful agony, no matter what he did, then how could our Creator

God doesn't want them to go there, he does everything he can to prevent us from going there. He sent his son to die for us so that we wouldn't have to go there. But the fact remains, those who don't accept his son WILL go there.

Rev 20:15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Luk 16:23 "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luk 16:24 "And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.'

Mat 13:41 "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,
Mat 13:42 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth

Mat 5:29 "If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

There are many many more verses about Hell (Hades, Sheol, etc...) It is a real place, it does exist, and some people will end up there.

A loving father does everything he can to keep his children from harm, but sometimes we disobey our fathers and end up getting ourselves in trouble. God is love yes, but he also just and Holy and righteous and will judge all sinners.

 

[betteroffdead]

It's also obvious that you have your eyes fixed on man and not Jesusbecause you can readily spot "heretics and hypocrites". Is it possible that your eyes of faith have gone blind?

The way I see it you are the one being judgmental. First you tell me to apply the Word of God, but then you condemn me when I identify people that are not following the Word of God as God has enabled me to understand it. People like you, who don’t want to be judgmental because you want to be liked, cannot possibly know the Word of God because the Word of God condemns heretics and hypocrites whose favor people like you crave.

Since you have no experience with the churches where I live, you are not in a position where you can determine whether or not they are heretics and/or hypocrites. But I know the churches here first hand. I know the fruits they produce. I know that is customary for churches here to not answer their phone. I know that it is customary for churches here to have pastors that let their sinful congregations lead them around by the nose or either treat their congregations as their own personal fiefdoms. I know it is customary for churches here to only be open Sunday morning and Wednesday night while people need help 24-7. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />

 

[betteroffdead]

You are at the moment pitying yourself as if you are the only one on this planet that is suffering.

Go to Hell.

 

[spirit1st]

We cannot help the bodies we come into this world in! mine pretty good , i cannot complain! He has to heal me a lot of times ! but it good now!
I feel sorry for you ! it funny a lady posted in a chat room today? she hoped some one would love me and bless me!
I told her JESUS CHRIST Love for me was enough!
We all have problems in this evil world! Some appear worse than others?
I do not think a lot of religions! But do thank God for those who preach JESUS CHRIST and HIS CROSS!
God allowed you to live to use you! I cannot say how or where?
I know pain well and i know DEATH well!
I have died both ways!
God can heal anything!
The mind seem to be the big problem!
You feel you been cheated!
Maybe you have?
My childhood was not very good either! I thank GOD for it! It caused me to have mercy on others!
I saw a boy once when i was young , who had a worse life than me! He had a dad and a mom! But i felt very sorry for him !
My dad died when i was about 4 years old! left me with 4 sisters and my mom!
lock me in closets , moved away while i was at school . Lots of stuff! went without food or things lots ! It does not matter!
Suffering got it benefits ! Thank you Jesus for all of it !
Good training! Now I can understand lots of life!
I can LOVE others that suffer and never look down on them !
I never knew Joy or peace or HIS kind of LOVE ! until I gave my self to Him and was willing to allow Him to take over my LIFE!
Now life is worth living . I have a reason to live ! I never liked this world ! Yes many are selfish and self centered ! does not matter! I live for MY LORD JESUS and He has blessed me LOTS!
I have these two kids I count His . I hardly go any where . Just raising these children! My son ask me yesterday? Dad why don"t you get a girl friend or friends! I said raising you kids is enough!
I get lonely , But it ok
We have to give ourselves to the LORD and All we have 100% !
He does not want one thing You have! Nothing! but He must have his rightful place as Lord !
We do not have a religion we who are born of god have a relationship! It ONE on ONE forever more! Has nothing to do with churches here or groups or others ! It Just between a Father and his Child !
I would talk with you pray with you or whatever if ever you want too?
I will put my phone number in your message box here!
Personally I know there is no life on this planet without Him in our Heart [Spirit] as LORD
Jesus is pure perfect LOVE! But it has to be His way and not our way!
He always wants the very best for us and is able to see to it that it takes place!
if we are willing to Hear and obey !
I used to when a young man, curse the LORD call Him many things! I blamed HIm for my messed up life for taking my DAD and leaving me here with my Mother and four sisters who did not want me around!
Later in life? I was very sorry i blamed Him ! ashamed of ever saying anything about HIM bad!
He had nothing to do with my childhood!
He was there all the time trying to help me! yet I could not see it`!
My heart was full of hate .I felt sorry for me and blamed Him!
I was very foolish !
There is a real hell and a real Heaven [New Jerusalem]

Our lives here are Very Serious! loving in my LORD JESUS gary

 

[MelodyC]

Go to Hell.

An impossibility for me as I have repented and received Christs payment for my sins. I am sure of my salvation.

However this proves my point. Wallowing in self pity. Self-centered, Self-seeking. I've been there. As I said you have to make the choice to want to get out of the pit you have dug for yourself. God hasn't created your misery but you are currently not interested in God's way, you want your own way.

I have been praying for you that God will give you spiritual insight into His Truth.

 

[betteroffdead]

An impossibility for me as I have repented and received Christs payment for my sins. I am sure of my salvation.

However this proves my point. Wallowing in self pity. Self-centered, Self-seeking. I've been there. As I said you have to make the choice to want to get out of the pit you have dug for yourself. God hasn't created your misery but you are currently not interested in God's way, you want your own way.

I have been praying for you that God will give you spiritual insight into His Truth.

Lady, you don't have a clue. It is not my fault my mother was pregnant before she was 18. It is not my fault I was born 10 weeks premature. It is not my fault that the ***** donor abandoned me. It is not my fault that I was raised in an atmosphere of verbal abuse and physical neglect. It isn't my fault my mother ignored doctors when I was growing up so now I have congestive heart failure. None of what is wrong with me is my fault. So take your self-righteousness and shove it.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />