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What If I'm Born Gay?

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Temptation is not the same as sin. As you pointed out, even Jesus was tempted. But He didn't sin.
If I want to tell a lie, but never do, I am not a liar. If I want to steal something, but never do, I am not a thief. If I want to sleep with a married woman, but never do, I am not an adulterer.
Having the urge to do something is not sin. Giving in to that urge is what makes it sin.

Jas 1:13; Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.
Jas 1:14; But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust.
Jas 1:15; Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.

Lust is simply what we want. I want cookies, I don't want spinach. I could be tempted by cookies, but I could never be tempted by spinach, it has no appeal to me.

I can honestly say, homosexuality has never had any appeal to me. Not once ever. However fornication and adultery on the other hand, there have been times I was tempted.
But I have never touched another woman since I have been married to my wife.

Temptation gives way to lust, lust gives way to sin, sin leads to death.
Matt 5:28 says that even the tempting thought we entertain is sin.

But I do agree with you that there is a difference between thoughts and actions. Matt 5:32 and Matt 19:9 make it clear that only the action of adultery can be used as grounds for divorce.
 
Active
You are making the same claim that the homosexual is making. They are saying they desire to be with members of the same sex, but I don't give in to those desires. Thus I am not homosexual, they say. satan is not going to tempt you in areas you that don't sense the draw toward.

When Jesus Christ was tempted it was toward Himself, toward that which He is and had the power to do. satan knew who He was. satan knew He had the power to make bread out of stones. So he tempted him in his normal hunger to use that power. satan knew He had command of the angels and could have then rescued Him from falling. So, tempt God and go ahead and jump off the pinnacle of the temple and prove you are the Son of God. satan knew that the Son, Christ, was the One who would wreck his kingdom and be given the power over the world. So he tempted Him in that area and offered Christ the kingdoms of the world, if He would just worship him.

You see? Even the temptation toward homosexual activity is repulsive. It reflects something in ones nature that is there. Yet you and others want to say, they are tempted that way but are not to be considered homosexual. This is why I asked the question. It wasn't meant for you to answer. It was meant to make a point.

As for your pastor, he is out in left field on this. To knowingly allow a queer couple to attend your church or fellowship is sick. But because everyone is afraid of being called hateful or bigoted then we will let them attend, and just love them. Is that what you call love? I dare say he doesn't love his flock very much. If you find a cottonmouth coiled up on your porch, are you going to let it stay there? When the grandkids come over just warn them about it and leave him alone. Sounds silly doesn't it. And dangerous.

This argument that the homosexuals are putting forth, that they have the desire but don't give into the desire, is for one purpose only. It is to get the Christians to accept them into their fellowship. This way they become use to having homosexuals in their midst. They are not going to openly tell you they have the desire but don't give into the desire for any other reason. They are displaying their homosexuality. Then next time when he comes in with his pardner, one of the same sex, then they just let you know they don't have any physical contact or relations. They have the desire but they don't give into that. Sure .

Now that is appalling.

Quantrill

You know what sounds disgusting from You is calling homosexual people / couples 'queer'. Like 'knowingly' allowing a 'queer couple' to attend your church is going to somehow contaminate your congregation. You Do realize that homosexual people Do have a soul. They're Not a piece of trash needing to be disposed of.

God's Word is powerful -- the blood of Christ is Powerful. As in Changing a person from the inside outward.

Many decades ago I was taking college courses -- one government course instructor gave the class a choice of doing a research paper in place of the 4th exam. I chose to do the research paper. Had to be at least 10 pgs. on a subject In the text book but not having been discussed in class. I'd noticed one of the chapters was on The Gay Right's Movement. He never brought it up in class -- I'd wondered how he was going to handle the subject. He never did. So. I thought -- Here's my chance. I got permission from him. My interest stemmed from the fact that there are So Many high school kids / girls that are concerned that they Are homosexual / lesbians when they really Aren't. And there are women who are going through phases in their lives. Through my years of life, I've seen the changes in society -- you'd have to be blind, deaf, dumb Not to. That which Used to be a shameful act is pretty much accepted. There's no longer the stigma associated With homosexuality and with women the lesbianism.

In one church my family was going to --members were highly encouraged to get into some sort of church-related organization -- bus ministry - nursery - nursing home - prison ministry. The later was the only one that was interesting sounding. I went to the orientation in Houston , Tx and learned that in the women's prison units, lesbianism was not allowed but it was practiced by some of the women Anyway. There was counseling available for the inmates that desired help in that area. However, we, as volunteers going in to talk with the women -- the soon to be released inmates -- were not to engage in that subject with them. If they Did bring it up -- to change the subject -- the thought that 'our' trying to talk with them was Not going to be a 'quick fix'. So I thought -- at That point in life -- I'd Heard of lesbianism but had no real concept of what it actually Was. So I started doing research on it so I wouldn't be 'shocked' if and when it Did come up. Well , it never did. But I Did get into a Yahoo Answers forum after that . One of the subject areas was culture / society (something like that ) but it was really sad the number of young women that wrote in asking in high school -- if 'she' is looking at me 'this way' or 'saying 'this' -- does That mean she's gay or that she's attracted to Me? And some of those kids were in Jr high. And that was with the guys' too. They were so super conscious of those things that who had time to study and get good grades. Seems that they had no clue as to what Friendship was. I was Trying to encourage those kids to concentrate on being a simple Friend and get studying for good grades and get involved in outdoor sports. Find a good, healthy outlet for those inner sexual energy that teens start experiencing.

And it's Also true that lots of women in the middle years of life Do get bi-curious. So much is heard about women being together that lots of women Do have good friends who Do agree between each other to 'try' more closeness to see what it really does feel like. Of course, there Is always a chance of loosing a good friendship as a result. Or Maybe finding out that it isn't all that bad and continue 'being with each other' in a quiet sort of way. And there Are people who Are naturally affectionate with other people. And some, like me, who Aren't.

It's those who are loud mouthed about it. Those who go out of their way to 'be ME' or 'be US' knowing very well that it turns people Off. They Purposely go to a nice conservative church just to see what trouble they can stir up,. Those people need Christ in their lives. They Need to be treated just like any other people who 'dare to come to Our church'.

And, sometimes, in the process Of researching -- a person Does find someone who simply wants another woman to 'wallow' with them. which did happen with me. I didn't have a clue about how computers worked -- cookies and such. Still don't , but a couple of women contacted me in gmail. One asked me to fill out a questianaire for her. Another was concerned about being approached by co-workers in a woman's room. She didn't like being approached. What should she Do. But the one woman sent me a couple of links showing what she was interested in and wanted my opinion. I Did click into them and found two different sights. One turned me completely OFF. the other - not so much. And I'd been curious as to how a woman Did get from friendship To that much closeness. I mean a woman doesn't go from crocheting with some women to getting into bed with one. So I was learning some things. And ended up a bit Too interested. But as a woman I Can understand how women Can get too close. Women relate together in a much different way than men do. Which is why Men tend to see it as 'gross' and it IS going against God's plan for men and women. Now -- am I going to actually follow through with any of that -- NO. Because I'd be affecting another woman in a negative way. And I Do prefer men. That's a Natural preference.

So -- Now you know My story. And No , I'm Not some 'closet lesbian'.

BYW -- my pastor has a deep love / concern for us ' his flock'. He's been preaching on the 7 yr tribulation period and the rapture and making us think about where 'we'll ' be Personally When the rapture Does take place -- which could be Anytime. He said he would be heart-broken if Any of us were in the church 'next Sunday' After the rapture took place.

so -- Yes, He welcomes Anyone and Everyone with open arms to hear God's Word and he Always closes with an invitation and encourages anyone with question to see him or one of the deacons. And there's Always a 'deacon of the week' listed.
 
Active
Your advice is nauseous. The fight is between God and satan, and you and I are part of that fight whether you like it or not. You view the fight as between God and satan and you are on the sideline just loving everybody. God doesn't want you to do nothing but love everybody. Even the queers. Who are an abomination against God.

Ridiculous.

The warfare exist with the Spirit of God in you coming against the satanic spirit, and sometimes you pay the ultimate price. Have you ever heard of martyrs? They paid the ultimate price. So, don't give me this pseudo spiritual language of we just need to love everyone. We take a stand for God. No matter the cost.

(Eph. 4:1-3) has nothing to do with accepting homosexuals in the Church, as does none of the other verses. Nothing. For you to use it that way says much of your lack of understanding of God. God has not changed his hatred for homosexuality and homosexuals.

Quantrill
God does not hate homosexuals. He hates the sin of homosexuality.

I agree with not standing on the side lines. I don't think that is exactly what Brother Paul is suggesting though.
 
Active
Dear brother,

There is more than one way to skin a rabbit, you are missing what I was trying to say.

Sounding off that homosexual and lesbians should be stoned is not, I feel, the way to deal with the situation, to me you are already throwing stones from your heart.

Jesus said:

John 13:34-35 (NKJV)
34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."

as for stone throwing Jesus put an end to this

John 8:7 (NKJV)
7 "He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first."

It is right to point out scripture to show The Truth brother, but comments like you made in your post is near to throwing stones at the accused.

Are you without sin brother, are any of us without sin, so is it right to throw stones?

We are to love the people, we are to love all people, but we are not to accept the sin, we cannot accept the sin.

It is not wrong to tell them of Genesis and Leviticus, it is not wrong to tell them about the abominations, Sodom, Gomorrah and Lot, as the Days of Noah were, no it is not wrong, it is right, we should make it clear and include all the New Testament quotes as well, God's Word is God breathed, every word, every verse, every chapter, every book. But does what we tell them and how we tell them come from the heart or the mouth?

Matthew 7:12 (NKJV)
12 Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

The most common scripture they use and misread are, Leviticus, they say, don't start quoting that we are free from the Law, true we are saved my Grace though Faith, but are we free from all the Law yet, is there a misunderstanding here? Yes we are saved by Grace through faith so Free from the Law in that aspect, but, Jesus said...

Matthew 5:17-18 (NKJV)
17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

Till Heaven and Earth passes away...

We cannot be totally Free from the Law, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy, or we would be able to not accept God, kill, steal, covet, commit adultery, etc. It is ludicrous to think we are Free from the Law, and is clear when our Lord says,...

18 For assuredly, I say to you, TILL heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the LAW TILL all is fulfilled.

Will homosexuals, lesbians, and others that commit sin go to heaven? If they are lost souls and repent of their sins from the heart, accept Jesus, even in the last hour, they can be saved.

But what about those who are saved and become homosexuals, lesbians etc, they are sinning, they are sinners, we are all sinners brother.


Matthew 5:17-20 (NKJV)
17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven;
but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

Sins are sins brother, there are no big sins and no small sins they are sins.

Peace be with you.
No, I got what you said.

No, I am believing what God has said about homosexuality. And God has never changed His mind concerning homosexuality. If proclaiming what God has said is not the way to deal with the situation, then your method is wrong at the start.

(John 13:34-35) does not mean I am to accept one who is a homosexual as a Christian. That is as perverted as homosexuality. If one who is a Christian is to be turned away from the Church for immorality such as Paul describes in (1 Cor. 5:1-5), to be handed over to satan for the destruction of his flesh, then there is no place for allowing any who are homosexual into your fellowship just so you can love them and display to the world you are not a bigot. My brothers in Christ are not homosexuals.

As to your statement about Christians becoming homosexuals, that is an oxymoron of the highest order. Convince yourself that it can happen, then no wonder you are so ready to love them. You can never cross the negative and positive battery posts with out tremendous explosive arcing.

Concerning your verses in (Matthew), the law and the prophets are clear about homosexuality. No problem there. As to 'sins being sins' yes all are sins . But homosexuality is deviant and and abomination. It is not the same. When Jesus brings in the Millennial Kingdom do you think He will allow homosexual activity? What do you think He will do about it?

Quantrill
 
Active
Temptation is not the same as sin. As you pointed out, even Jesus was tempted. But He didn't sin.
If I want to tell a lie, but never do, I am not a liar. If I want to steal something, but never do, I am not a thief. If I want to sleep with a married woman, but never do, I am not an adulterer.
Having the urge to do something is not sin. Giving in to that urge is what makes it sin.

Jas 1:13; Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.
Jas 1:14; But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust.
Jas 1:15; Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.

Lust is simply what we want. I want cookies, I don't want spinach. I could be tempted by cookies, but I could never be tempted by spinach, it has no appeal to me.

I can honestly say, homosexuality has never had any appeal to me. Not once ever. However fornication and adultery on the other hand, there have been times I was tempted.
But I have never touched another woman since I have been married to my wife.

Temptation gives way to lust, lust gives way to sin, sin leads to death.
My point concerning the temptation of Christ was not that temptation is not the same as sin. It was that that the temptation is toward something you are.

You are tempted toward that which is natural among men. Sin yes, but still in the realm of natural. Homosexuality is outside the natural. Something has occurred, broken, bent, perverted in the individual. Thus the temptation will be to that one toward what he now desires.

Quantrill
 
Active
You know what sounds disgusting from You is calling homosexual people / couples 'queer'. Like 'knowingly' allowing a 'queer couple' to attend your church is going to somehow contaminate your congregation. You Do realize that homosexual people Do have a soul. They're Not a piece of trash needing to be disposed of.

God's Word is powerful -- the blood of Christ is Powerful. As in Changing a person from the inside outward.

Many decades ago I was taking college courses -- one government course instructor gave the class a choice of doing a research paper in place of the 4th exam. I chose to do the research paper. Had to be at least 10 pgs. on a subject In the text book but not having been discussed in class. I'd noticed one of the chapters was on The Gay Right's Movement. He never brought it up in class -- I'd wondered how he was going to handle the subject. He never did. So. I thought -- Here's my chance. I got permission from him. My interest stemmed from the fact that there are So Many high school kids / girls that are concerned that they Are homosexual / lesbians when they really Aren't. And there are women who are going through phases in their lives. Through my years of life, I've seen the changes in society -- you'd have to be blind, deaf, dumb Not to. That which Used to be a shameful act is pretty much accepted. There's no longer the stigma associated With homosexuality and with women the lesbianism.

In one church my family was going to --members were highly encouraged to get into some sort of church-related organization -- bus ministry - nursery - nursing home - prison ministry. The later was the only one that was interesting sounding. I went to the orientation in Houston , Tx and learned that in the women's prison units, lesbianism was not allowed but it was practiced by some of the women Anyway. There was counseling available for the inmates that desired help in that area. However, we, as volunteers going in to talk with the women -- the soon to be released inmates -- were not to engage in that subject with them. If they Did bring it up -- to change the subject -- the thought that 'our' trying to talk with them was Not going to be a 'quick fix'. So I thought -- at That point in life -- I'd Heard of lesbianism but had no real concept of what it actually Was. So I started doing research on it so I wouldn't be 'shocked' if and when it Did come up. Well , it never did. But I Did get into a Yahoo Answers forum after that . One of the subject areas was culture / society (something like that ) but it was really sad the number of young women that wrote in asking in high school -- if 'she' is looking at me 'this way' or 'saying 'this' -- does That mean she's gay or that she's attracted to Me? And some of those kids were in Jr high. And that was with the guys' too. They were so super conscious of those things that who had time to study and get good grades. Seems that they had no clue as to what Friendship was. I was Trying to encourage those kids to concentrate on being a simple Friend and get studying for good grades and get involved in outdoor sports. Find a good, healthy outlet for those inner sexual energy that teens start experiencing.

And it's Also true that lots of women in the middle years of life Do get bi-curious. So much is heard about women being together that lots of women Do have good friends who Do agree between each other to 'try' more closeness to see what it really does feel like. Of course, there Is always a chance of loosing a good friendship as a result. Or Maybe finding out that it isn't all that bad and continue 'being with each other' in a quiet sort of way. And there Are people who Are naturally affectionate with other people. And some, like me, who Aren't.

It's those who are loud mouthed about it. Those who go out of their way to 'be ME' or 'be US' knowing very well that it turns people Off. They Purposely go to a nice conservative church just to see what trouble they can stir up,. Those people need Christ in their lives. They Need to be treated just like any other people who 'dare to come to Our church'.

And, sometimes, in the process Of researching -- a person Does find someone who simply wants another woman to 'wallow' with them. which did happen with me. I didn't have a clue about how computers worked -- cookies and such. Still don't , but a couple of women contacted me in gmail. One asked me to fill out a questianaire for her. Another was concerned about being approached by co-workers in a woman's room. She didn't like being approached. What should she Do. But the one woman sent me a couple of links showing what she was interested in and wanted my opinion. I Did click into them and found two different sights. One turned me completely OFF. the other - not so much. And I'd been curious as to how a woman Did get from friendship To that much closeness. I mean a woman doesn't go from crocheting with some women to getting into bed with one. So I was learning some things. And ended up a bit Too interested. But as a woman I Can understand how women Can get too close. Women relate together in a much different way than men do. Which is why Men tend to see it as 'gross' and it IS going against God's plan for men and women. Now -- am I going to actually follow through with any of that -- NO. Because I'd be affecting another woman in a negative way. And I Do prefer men. That's a Natural preference.

So -- Now you know My story. And No , I'm Not some 'closet lesbian'.

BYW -- my pastor has a deep love / concern for us ' his flock'. He's been preaching on the 7 yr tribulation period and the rapture and making us think about where 'we'll ' be Personally When the rapture Does take place -- which could be Anytime. He said he would be heart-broken if Any of us were in the church 'next Sunday' After the rapture took place.

so -- Yes, He welcomes Anyone and Everyone with open arms to hear God's Word and he Always closes with an invitation and encourages anyone with question to see him or one of the deacons. And there's Always a 'deacon of the week' listed.

What is disgusting to me is allowing queers to call themselves 'gay'. What a perversion of the word they have done. You don't mind calling them gay as that is their term. I don't mind calling them queer as that truly describes their nature.

Yes, women are more susceptible to homosexuality. And it always seems to start with them. (Rom. 1:26)

Well, as I said in another post, if a Christian is to be excommunicated for immorality, (1 Cor. 5:1-5), and turned over to satan, then by what reasoning would your pastor accept a queer couple into the church and accept them like all the rest. He needs to rethink his position.

Homosexuality has so permeated our society that now even the church is accepting it.

Quantrill
 
Active
But what about those who are saved and become homosexuals, lesbians etc, they are sinning, they are sinners, we are all sinners brother.
I agree with your post apart from this line.

We are all sinners, but we are not all 1. sold out to sin or 2. mortal sinners (close to being sold out to sin).

When Paul became a Christian he did not continue murdering Christians but he did continue in sin. Now I believe why Quantril is disagreeing with you is because lines like this one from you seem to sugar coat it. Blur the sin with other sin. ''We are all sinners''. No. Homosexuality was a sin that warranted capital punishment. We are miss representing scripture if we don't disclose that fact. Not all sin warranted capital punishment.
 
Active
What is disgusting to me is allowing queers to call themselves 'gay'. What a perversion of the word they have done. You don't mind calling them gay as that is their term. I don't mind calling them queer as that truly describes their nature.

Yes, women are more susceptible to homosexuality. And it always seems to start with them. (Rom. 1:26)

Well, as I said in another post, if a Christian is to be excommunicated for immorality, (1 Cor. 5:1-5), and turned over to satan, then by what reasoning would your pastor accept a queer couple into the church and accept them like all the rest. He needs to rethink his position.

Homosexuality has so permeated our society that now even the church is accepting it.

Quantrill


Part of the research paper was starting out with giving a definition to each of the words "gay" "right's" and 'movement'. And 'gay' Usually means happy and it's assuming that 'gay' homosexual people can / are happy people. that it's just another life=style. which we know it isn't and they probably do too.

It's Not a 'queer' nature -- it's a very sadly misled inner nature that needs God's love to straighten out.

Well --there Is or used to be church discipline practiced. That was for believers who were observed doing or living in a non-Biblical situation who did Not respond to a single person approaching them privately with concern for their behavior. And then if Two people approached the same way and Still no sign of being willing to obey Scripture Then they'd be approached by the pastor / deacons. But Usually after the first time of being approached, the person either saw fit to leave and go to another church or Did see fit to change what the other person approached them with. The desired result would be either their salvation or their adjusting whatever was in their lives that needed 'fixing'. The 'church' does need to have Biblical standards and Not allow obvious sinning to Continue taking place.

I guess that in a church situation that I was describing in the church I'm going to. It would depend entirely on the attitude shown by the 'same-sex' person or couple who came to the church service. Chances are they would not be back. But if they Did and wanted to continue coming -- chances are that the pastor and wife / deacon would approach them at their home and say that If they want to continue coming to 'this' particular church -- they'd need to have separate living quarters. It would be no different than finding out that an unmarried couple was living together. They would be approached that either they'd get married -- for the Right reasons - or find separate places to live. Because their present living conditions are Not in accordance with Biblical morality.

They Could be allowed to attend services as long as they behaved themselves -- but not allowed to join or hold any kind of office.

I don't think it's any persons or churches place To turn anyone over to satan. Wouldn't that be strictly God's thing. God has said that when people Choose to wallow -- that - after a while -- He Will give them over to their own ways -- but those consequences are the wrath of God.
 
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Top Poster Of Month
I agree with your post apart from this line.

We are all sinners, but we are not all 1. sold out to sin or 2. mortal sinners (close to being sold out to sin).

When Paul became a Christian he did not continue murdering Christians but he did continue in sin. Now I believe why Quantril is disagreeing with you is because lines like this one from you seem to sugar coat it. Blur the sin with other sin. ''We are all sinners''. No. Homosexuality was a sin that warranted capital punishment. We are miss representing scripture if we don't disclose that fact. Not all sin warranted capital punishment.
Seem to sugar coat, the first two words sum it up.

Another way to say it might be, going soft on the issue. That I am not, my emphasis was meant more to the lost soul sinning g than a believer sinning. The lost soul rejected God and Jesus, killed, covered, committed adultery, did not love his neighbour, committed sexual sin, was hard hearted to the full, belonging to sin, the world and the devil.

Are you saying if he comes to Christ, opens is heart in true repentance, believes, says the creed, all from the heart that God will not accept him. I appreciate God calls us we do not call him, are you saying.

Is not the saving of soul with a truly repentant heart in God's hands, as is the wrath of God.
 
Member
I agree with your post apart from this line.

We are all sinners, but we are not all 1. sold out to sin or 2. mortal sinners (close to being sold out to sin).

When Paul became a Christian he did not continue murdering Christians but he did continue in sin. Now I believe why Quantril is disagreeing with you is because lines like this one from you seem to sugar coat it. Blur the sin with other sin. ''We are all sinners''. No. Homosexuality was a sin that warranted capital punishment. We are miss representing scripture if we don't disclose that fact. Not all sin warranted capital punishment.
All sin warrants Hell without Jesus Christ as our savior.
Now, though sexual sins are worse than other sins, the Bible says this, and yes, homosexuality warrants capital punishment in the Old Testament, the way that people are supposed to discuss homosexuality in the New Testament is by pointing out that it's a sin that keeps them out of Heaven.

Now what I was trying to say earlier was that I had strong homosexual urges, which I do, but that doesn't maek me, as I foolishly thought, that I was homosexual. I can't help but wonder, however, if some people just dont' understand that this issue can effect someone like me very strongly. There are some reasons why just stating you can't be a Christian if you are homosexual is problematic.

I was saved many years ago at the age of fifteen, I don't have a strong testimony about hardcore sins like coming out of drugs, violence or crime like some people do, in fact, I don't remember much of the time I was saved back then, it's been twenty years. Overtime, I developed an unsavory thought life.

That was after I was saved, precisely because I was not in fellowship with other believers. Not because I was more sinful than other people.
 
Loyal
Overtime, I developed an unsavory thought life.

That was after I was saved, precisely because I was not in fellowship with other believers. Not because I was more sinful than other people.
Those thoughts are directed to you from the enemy.
All the fellowship in the world will not stop, remove or deal with those thoughts.

Only You through the power of Gods Word will do anything against these thoughts.
Yep that means you are going to have to fight spiritually.
Blessings
 
Active
All sin warrants Hell without Jesus Christ as our savior.
Now, though sexual sins are worse than other sins, the Bible says this, and yes, homosexuality warrants capital punishment in the Old Testament, the way that people are supposed to discuss homosexuality in the New Testament is by pointing out that it's a sin that keeps them out of Heaven.

Now what I was trying to say earlier was that I had strong homosexual urges, which I do, but that doesn't maek me, as I foolishly thought, that I was homosexual. I can't help but wonder, however, if some people just dont' understand that this issue can effect someone like me very strongly. There are some reasons why just stating you can't be a Christian if you are homosexual is problematic.

I was saved many years ago at the age of fifteen, I don't have a strong testimony about hardcore sins like coming out of drugs, violence or crime like some people do, in fact, I don't remember much of the time I was saved back then, it's been twenty years. Overtime, I developed an unsavory thought life.

That was after I was saved, precisely because I was not in fellowship with other believers. Not because I was more sinful than other people.

Any one who acknowledges their person need For a Savior and acknowledges that Jesus Christ IS the only Savior and that His death, burial and bodily resurrection are all that's needed== Can be saved. Are saved. A person does need to humble themselves before God. No one is going to come with an arrogant spirit. We thank Him for what He's done for us on the cross. Belief in our heart and confession with our mouth.

And there Is the fact that Satan Does know our inner weaknesses. And a born-again believer is a prime targot. Satan's job Now - is to make us as ineffective Christian as possible.
And Everyone has their weaknesses. Our thought-life is something only God can see. But 'we' know what we're thinking about. And the more we 'think' about something , the stronger it gets. Philippians 4:8 and Psalm 37: 3,4, 5, 7, and 8 b. Trust in the LORD, Delight yourself in the LORD, Commit your way to the LORD, Trust Also in Him.
 
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Those thoughts are directed to you from the enemy.
All the fellowship in the world will not stop, remove or deal with those thoughts.

Only You through the power of Gods Word will do anything against these thoughts.
Yep that means you are going to have to fight spiritually.
Blessings
Any one who acknowledges their person need For a Savior and acknowledges that Jesus Christ IS the only Savior and that His death, burial and bodily resurrection are all that's needed== Can be saved. Are saved. A person does need to humble themselves before God. No one is going to come with an arrogant spirit. We thank Him for what He's done for us on the cross. Belief in our heart and confession with our mouth.

And there Is the fact that Satan Does know our inner weaknesses. And a born-again believer is a prime targot. Satan's job Now - is to make us as ineffective Christian as possible.
And Everyone has their weaknesses. Our thought-life is something only God can see. But 'we' know what we're thinking about. And the more we 'think' about something , the stronger it gets. Philippians 4:8 and Psalm 37: 3,4, 5, 7, and 8 b. Trust in the LORD, Delight yourself in the LORD, Commit your way to the LORD, Trust Also in Him.
Okay everyone thanks for the reminder.
 
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Rad

I just hope that those Righteous Souls who so vehemently and passionately condemn Homosexuality and those that practice it also turn their vehemence and passionate condemnation upon the Rich and those that fail to help those in need, both of which were roundly singled out by Christ for their sins, strangely though he never mentioned homosexuality, which if we were to believe some ranks as the greatest abomination in the sight of God, as for Gods word being eternal and unchanging, the case of the woman taken in adultery has already been noted as should also Christs words in Matthew 5 vs27-48,....... how easily some line up to cast their stones, although it must be hard for them to do so accurately, given the Log of hate and intolerance thats in their eyes and obscuring their vision.
 
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Rad

I agree with your post apart from this line.

We are all sinners, but we are not all 1. sold out to sin or 2. mortal sinners (close to being sold out to sin).

When Paul became a Christian he did not continue murdering Christians but he did continue in sin. Now I believe why Quantril is disagreeing with you is because lines like this one from you seem to sugar coat it. Blur the sin with other sin. ''We are all sinners''. No. Homosexuality was a sin that warranted capital punishment. We are miss representing scripture if we don't disclose that fact. Not all sin warranted capital punishment.
Does working on the Sabbath "warrant Capital Punishment", and whilst Christ didn't condone capital punishment he certainly condemned those that ignored those in need or lived in wealth and comfort to Hell, a fate worse than death,....... theres no "sugar coating" or "Blurring", sin is sin, to ordain an order of sin is to put yourself in the position of God, a position which yourself and others seem most happy to do.
 
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Part of the research paper was starting out with giving a definition to each of the words "gay" "right's" and 'movement'. And 'gay' Usually means happy and it's assuming that 'gay' homosexual people can / are happy people. that it's just another life=style. which we know it isn't and they probably do too.

It's Not a 'queer' nature -- it's a very sadly misled inner nature that needs God's love to straighten out.

Well --there Is or used to be church discipline practiced. That was for believers who were observed doing or living in a non-Biblical situation who did Not respond to a single person approaching them privately with concern for their behavior. And then if Two people approached the same way and Still no sign of being willing to obey Scripture Then they'd be approached by the pastor / deacons. But Usually after the first time of being approached, the person either saw fit to leave and go to another church or Did see fit to change what the other person approached them with. The desired result would be either their salvation or their adjusting whatever was in their lives that needed 'fixing'. The 'church' does need to have Biblical standards and Not allow obvious sinning to Continue taking place.

I guess that in a church situation that I was describing in the church I'm going to. It would depend entirely on the attitude shown by the 'same-sex' person or couple who came to the church service. Chances are they would not be back. But if they Did and wanted to continue coming -- chances are that the pastor and wife / deacon would approach them at their home and say that If they want to continue coming to 'this' particular church -- they'd need to have separate living quarters. It would be no different than finding out that an unmarried couple was living together. They would be approached that either they'd get married -- for the Right reasons - or find separate places to live. Because their present living conditions are Not in accordance with Biblical morality.

They Could be allowed to attend services as long as they behaved themselves -- but not allowed to join or hold any kind of office.

I don't think it's any persons or churches place To turn anyone over to satan. Wouldn't that be strictly God's thing. God has said that when people Choose to wallow -- that - after a while -- He Will give them over to their own ways -- but those consequences are the wrath of God.

Oh, you say it is not a 'queer nature'. But you don't mind calling it a 'gay nature'. You are as perverse as they.

Your explanation of your pastors acceptance of queers into your church is just more bs. You ignore the church discipline that Paul meeted out. Paul turned them over to satan for their destruction. Yet you and your 'so called pastor' is willing to allow homosexuals into the church. Excuse me while I vomit.

Oh yes, it is God's thing. And God uses His people to exercise His thing. Shame your pastor and you are not willing to be used of God in this.

Quantrill
 
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All sin warrants Hell without Jesus Christ as our savior.
Now, though sexual sins are worse than other sins, the Bible says this, and yes, homosexuality warrants capital punishment in the Old Testament, the way that people are supposed to discuss homosexuality in the New Testament is by pointing out that it's a sin that keeps them out of Heaven.

Now what I was trying to say earlier was that I had strong homosexual urges, which I do, but that doesn't maek me, as I foolishly thought, that I was homosexual. I can't help but wonder, however, if some people just dont' understand that this issue can effect someone like me very strongly. There are some reasons why just stating you can't be a Christian if you are homosexual is problematic.

I was saved many years ago at the age of fifteen, I don't have a strong testimony about hardcore sins like coming out of drugs, violence or crime like some people do, in fact, I don't remember much of the time I was saved back then, it's been twenty years. Overtime, I developed an unsavory thought life.

That was after I was saved, precisely because I was not in fellowship with other believers. Not because I was more sinful than other people.
You have homosexual urges because you are a homosexual. You are a homosexual because you are not right with God. There is no problem stating that you can't be a homosexual and be a Christian. These are directly opposed.

The base of homosexuality is rejection of God. (Rom. 1:21) So, don't lie to yourself and others that you are a queer and believe in God and Christ.

Quantrill
 
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I just hope that those Righteous Souls who so vehemently and passionately condemn Homosexuality and those that practice it also turn their vehemence and passionate condemnation upon the Rich and those that fail to help those in need, both of which were roundly singled out by Christ for their sins, strangely though he never mentioned homosexuality, which if we were to believe some ranks as the greatest abomination in the sight of God, as for Gods word being eternal and unchanging, the case of the woman taken in adultery has already been noted as should also Christs words in Matthew 5 vs27-48,....... how easily some line up to cast their stones, although it must be hard for them to do so accurately, given the Log of hate and intolerance thats in their eyes and obscuring their vision.

Well -- there's a difference between adultery and homosexuality. As bad as adultery Is, it is a man and a woman interacting. The abomination is the same sex intermingling together. Nothing positive can ever come between two of the same sex being together.

I've heard women comment that 'when You are innocent of everything, Then come to me" It's kind of like -- that's Just another sin. -- that 'we' love each other so leave us Alone.

They are two different catagories.

And the attitudes of hatred and intolerance are equally wrong. There is really no excuse for hatred towards Anyone. Hatred hurts the hater more that it does the person Being hated. Unless the hatred is taken out on the other person. In which case a civil law is probably being broken.

Usually it's the Christians who are supposed to tolerate Everything and Everyone. We are the one's who are supposed to forget about Biblical standards and simply "LOVE" everything but That's not Biblical Either. Jesus Christ did Not condone the actions of the woman caught in adultery. Because in order to be Caught in it, some one had to know it was being Done and 'catch' the Woman. Nothing is being said about the Man involved. He can get up and 'hide' amongst the crowd of other men and women. Jesus Christ was Not stupid -- He was the Only one who really new their Hearts.
 
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You have homosexual urges because you are a homosexual. You are a homosexual because you are not right with God. There is no problem stating that you can't be a homosexual and be a Christian. These are directly opposed.

The base of homosexuality is rejection of God. (Rom. 1:21) So, don't lie to yourself and others that you are a queer and believe in God and Christ.

Quantrill
I'm sorry but you can be Christian and "not be right" with God too.

Furthermore, I'm Christian, and you aren't either a licensed psychologist, nor do you speak for God. The Bible does, and it plainly states you can't lose your salvation.
 
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I'm sorry but you can be Christian and "not be right" with God too.

Furthermore, I'm Christian, and you aren't either a licensed psychologist, nor do you speak for God. The Bible does, and it plainly states you can't lose your salvation.
So what are you saying? You are a homosexual and a Christian?

Quantrill
 
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