What happened to Jesus’ church?

[gdemoss]

Thanks for the pic!

What would be a proper response?

Depends upon whether you have the gift of healing, I presume. A gift that should never be in question of whether or not it is still in operation. Do you have it Mike?

Gary

 

[faithfulservant]

John, to say that the Holy Spirit aids people by giving them what they need for a specific ministry to a specific person at a specific time has nothing to do with the perfect word of God coming. The bible is our basis from which we form understanding. It is what the Holy Spirit brings to mind when needed.

May the Lord bless you and keep you till the day of Christ,

Gary

When the "Perfect" comes, we will be "face to face." That sounds like Jesus, the Living God, not the text on a page:

1 Corinthians 13: The Way of Love
1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
2 And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
3 If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant
5 or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful;
6 it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth.
7 Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away.
9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part,
10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away.
11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.
13 So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

Reading the Bible is like looking in the mirror dimly. When Jesus is revealed fully, we will be face to face. Until then, these gifts will continue to manifest according to His will. Praise God!

 

[gdemoss]

When the "Perfect" comes, we will be "face to face." That sounds like Jesus, the Living God, not the text on a page:

1 Corinthians 13: The Way of Love
1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
2 And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
3 If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant
5 or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful;
6 it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth.
7 Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away.
9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part,
10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away.
11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.
13 So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

Reading the Bible is like looking in the mirror dimly. When Jesus is revealed fully, we will be face to face. Until then, these gifts will continue to manifest according to His will. Praise God!

The error here is found in verse 13. When Jesus comes there will be no need of hope. Paul speaking about what is continuing is in direct contrast to what is going to cease to function. Looking into a glass darkly is hearing partial revelation from various individuals gifted by the Holy Spirit with prophesy and knowledge. When I open the bible, I see myself for who I am in truth, face to face as the Word of God is quick and powerful discerning the intents of my heart. I am exposed. And then by it washed and sanctified.

No one who believes in speaking in tongues who has experienced something that they call tongues will every come to believe that what they are doing is anything but that which comes from God. I'd rather error on the side of caution and let it go than get into something that might not be of God. Especially with it being in an unknown tongue or a tongue of angels where one cannot understand what they are even saying. What if the words coming out of your mouth happen to be blaspheming the Holy Spirit? You would never know. One day we will all find out what it is and just how much it matters. What I do know is that there is no penalty for not participating in it.

May God make you wise unto all he has said,

Gary

 

[faithfulservant]

Depends upon whether you have the gift of healing, I presume. A gift that should never be in question of whether or not it is still in operation. Do you have it Mike?

Gary

The gift of healing has manifested a few times through me. The first few times, it was when I was newly born again and the LORD healed my dog of a number of ailments when I prayed over her. I believe He did this to strengthen my faith and prepare me for what was to come later.

Two years later, in a church my wife and I had just begun to attend, the pastor called up a number of people who needed healing to come forward so the congregation could pray for them. I was sitting way to the side at the time, and the Holy Spirit's prompting in me was so strong I couldn't say no. The whole congregation had crowded up the aisle, so I had to work my way through about 50 people to get up to where a woman who had cancer was.

It reminded me of the woman who pushed her way through the crowd simply to touch the tassles of Jesus' garment. This was nothing of me, I was just going through the crowd in faith.

When I got up behind her, I simply laid my hand upon her shoulder and prayed as the Spirit led. I began to ask the LORD to have mercy upon His servant. This is not something I've ever thought of as a prayer before, it just started coming out of me.

For approximately 4-5 minutes as the whole congregation prayed I held my hand on her shoulder and the Spirit interceded for her. The Spirit of God was overwhelming me, and I had tears streaming down my face. The last minute of prayer I wasn't even touching her anymore. My hand was lifted off her body, but still facing her shoulder. The Spirit of the LORD was emanating from me so powerfully it was like a physical manifestation. My hand ever so lightly waved with the power coursing through it from me to her. The LORD was pouring out His Spirit of healing upon her.

Afterwards, I made my way back to my seat. I was kind of a mess. My face was soaked with tears. It was strange, but I wasn't really concerned that I probably looked a bit weird about the whole situation.

Mind you, the woman who had cancer was a part of a small-group I had been attending. I knew her a bit. We were new to the church.

The next week, I saw her in small group. She had been going through chemo for the previous weeks, but after that Sunday service where we prayed for her, she felt fantastic. She knew the LORD had healed her.

She was, however, worried because the cancer treatment facility was insisting she had to continue with chemotherapy because she hadn't finished out the cycle.

I saw her the next Sunday and we prayed that the LORD would reveal to her doctors that she no longer needed chemotherapy, and that she was healed.

That week, that very thing happened. The doctors recognized she didn't need it, and that her cancer had disappeared. She's been cancer free since then, and that was a year ago. PRAISE GOD! THANK YOU, JESUS! HALLELUJAH!

God is so merciful and loving. We need to trust the prompting of the Spirit.

I think the LORD led us to that church because as outsiders I could easily step up there and pray in faith for her to get healed. Imagine people who have known her for years? I am betting people felt worried about praying and worrying if nothing happened. It's sad. LORD, increase our faith. May it grow just like a mustard seed until it's big enough for birds to nest in it. In Jesus' name I pray...

======================================

The error here is found in verse 13. When Jesus comes there will be no need of hope. Paul speaking about what is continuing is in direct contrast to what is going to cease to function. Looking into a glass darkly is hearing partial revelation from various individuals gifted by the Holy Spirit with prophesy and knowledge. When I open the bible, I see myself for who I am in truth, face to face as the Word of God is quick and powerful discerning the intents of my heart. I am exposed. And then by it washed and sanctified.

No one who believes in speaking in tongues who has experienced something that they call tongues will every come to believe that what they are doing is anything but that which comes from God. I'd rather error on the side of caution and let it go than get into something that might not be of God. Especially with it being in an unknown tongue or a tongue of angels where one cannot understand what they are even saying. What if the words coming out of your mouth happen to be blaspheming the Holy Spirit? You would never know. One day we will all find out what it is and just how much it matters. What I do know is that there is no penalty for not participating in it.

May God make you wise unto all he has said,

Gary

Gary, read the Book of Hebrews please. God wants to talk directly to you. But for that to happen, you need to have open ears and an open heart. You can cling to words on a page, or you can follow the Spirit of the Living God. The choice is yours.

 

[Brother Mike]

Awesome!!

ByGraceAlone

I saw her the next Sunday and we prayed that the LORD would reveal to her doctors that she no longer needed chemotherapy, and that she was healed.

That week, that very thing happened. The doctors recognized she didn't need it, and that her cancer had disappeared. She's been cancer free since then, and that was a year ago. PRAISE GOD! THANK YOU, JESUS! HALLELUJAH!

God is so merciful and loving. We need to trust the prompting of the Spirit.

All the Glory be to our good God, and your obedience to stepping out in faith, trusting in the will of God to heal.

Gary:

Depends upon whether you have the gift of healing, I presume. A gift that should never be in question of whether or not it is still in operation. Do you have it Mike?

Gary

Mike certainly has no Healing gift, as the Spirit distributes to each man. I can feel the teaching anointing when it comes on me, and have faith for it. I just can't turn it off or on though, just like I can't just turn off or on any Healing gifts.

The scripture that came to mind when the girl was setting me out in front of everyone was this one.

Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name .....................
Mar 16:18 ........... they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

So, I was just acting on what the Word said, as I do believe in Jesus name, I do believe it's God's will to Heal, I do believe he confirms his word with signs following.

These only work for those that will believe though, because when the Girl asked me in front of everyone if God would heal here, I told her God will heal you right here and now.

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[gdemoss]

Gary, read the Book of Hebrews please. God wants to talk directly to you. But for that to happen, you need to have open ears and an open heart. You can cling to words on a page, or you can follow the Spirit of the Living God. The choice is yours.

GBA, I will read the book of Hebrews as you request. As far as the rest of what you say, you are claiming that I am dull of hearing and have a hardened heart against God? What does it mean to cling to the words on a page? In the past, the book of Hebrews has spoken volumes to me. I thought it actually helped me understand when I went from being dull of hearing to one who is listening with intent.

Just out of curiosity, are you one who believes that the bible speaks differently for different occasions using the same text or one who believes that the text always conveys the same message?

Gary

 

[SpiritLedEd]

When that was done, it was time to make tracks out of there, but she did not leave the platform. She asked me in front of everyone.

Will God heal my stomach.

What would be a proper response?

In my church we say "Keep it simple". Our response would have been to ask a female church member to assist the pastor by laying her hand on the girl's stomach while the pastor invited the Holy Spirit to come in power. If no female church member is available, the pastor might lay his hand on the girl's head while he prays. Sometimes we see healings, sometimes nothing happens. We don't believe that anyone permanently possesses the gift of healing. Healing is God's gift to be distributed as He chooses, when He chooses, and to whom He chooses.

SLE

 

[gdemoss]

We don't believe that anyone permanently possesses the gift of healing.

I thought scripture taught that they do. Romans 11:29 The gifts of God are without repentance, no?

 

[Miss Elly]

I have that which is perfect as it has come. My bible gives me every answer that I need for every question that comes up. I have the anointing to teach me all things and guide me in all truth. That said, Satan has taken down the church as was prophesied. The men of the church have become lovers of their own selves. Lovers of pleasure more than lovers of God. The true gospel is evil spoken of. It seems that there is a remnant that remains that hasn't bowed the knee to the enemy that is awaiting the angels to come and lead them by the hand out of Sodom before God brings down judgment upon those that dwell upon the earth, but only those who have put on Christ as the elect of God. The time is drawing near, let us draw even closer unto God the Father in full assurance of faith that he will do that which he has promised.

Gary

agree 100 percent:wink:

 

[Miss Elly]

The error here is found in verse 13. When Jesus comes there will be no need of hope. Paul speaking about what is continuing is in direct contrast to what is going to cease to function. Looking into a glass darkly is hearing partial revelation from various individuals gifted by the Holy Spirit with prophesy and knowledge. When I open the bible, I see myself for who I am in truth, face to face as the Word of God is quick and powerful discerning the intents of my heart. I am exposed. And then by it washed and sanctified.

No one who believes in speaking in tongues who has experienced something that they call tongues will every come to believe that what they are doing is anything but that which comes from God. I'd rather error on the side of caution and let it go than get into something that might not be of God. Especially with it being in an unknown tongue or a tongue of angels where one cannot understand what they are even saying. What if the words coming out of your mouth happen to be blaspheming the Holy Spirit? You would never know. One day we will all find out what it is and just how much it matters. What I do know is that there is no penalty for not participating in it.

May God make you wise unto all he has said,

Gary

Gary, I have never heard of satan praising God in any kind of tongue. God's people should be able to discern what is God and what is not, if you can't ask the Lord to help you. You can feel when a person is worshipping the Lord with all of their heart. I received the baptism of the Holy Spirit speaking in tongues, so unless you believe I am a liar, I know what the difference between God and satan, I know what the presence of the Lord is. God bless.

 

[Miss Elly]

I thought scripture taught that they do. Romans 11:29 The gifts of God are without repentance, no?

A person can have the gift of healing but can only use them when God stirs up the gift in them. Otherwise someone with the gift of healing could walk all around American and heal eveyone they see. Yes, the gifts of of God are without repentance, but can only be used when God wants them to.

 

[gdemoss]

Gary, I have never heard of satan praising God in any kind of tongue. God's people should be able to discern what is God and what is not, if you can't ask the Lord to help you. You can feel when a person is worshipping the Lord with all of their heart. I received the baptism of the Holy Spirit speaking in tongues, so unless you believe I am a liar, I know what the difference between God and satan, I know what the presence of the Lord is. God bless.

I don't believe that your a liar. Liars are people who purposely bear false witness to other for the purpose of deceiving them. I don't know anything about your situation outside of your own personal testimony of it. There is no indication in scripture that one can tell what is being said in what manner without having the gift of interpretation of tongues. As I stated before, I will err on the side of caution and stick with words that are easily understood so that others are edified. To me, there is no benefit in speaking in a language that no one understands. Especially if it is possible that it isn't of God. You say you know, I know, but I still wonder.

Gary

 

[Brother Mike]

The gifts.

gdemoss

I thought scripture taught that they do. Romans 11:29 The gifts of God are without repentance, no?

The whole chapter of (1Cor 12) speaks about the body. When we come together as in church. Same when the 9 gifts are explained, it's a body, and Church, Paul laid out how the gifts where to be treated, and decent and in order.

1Co 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

The 9 gifts are distributed as the Holy Spirit wills. Tongues is the only gift that is spoken about outside a Church setting, being prayer. Paul said I thank God I speak in tongues more than all of you, so he must have done a lot of praying.

With that, any Gift can be given to help someone and glorify God. Even outside of the Church setting, such at home when speaking Prophesy. Certainly God may have to miracle someone out of something. My friend raised someone from the dead, shocking everyone, and I am sure that gift must have been in operation.

Gifts are also operated according to our faith to use them. I told that Girl on stage that God will heal her right here and now, I certainly am under no presser to perform the Word, it's in God's hands at this point. I just have to agree with what Jesus said, which is all faith is, an agreement with the grace provided. Unless we agree with what is written, then two can not walk together.

Rom 12:6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;

Romans, the gifts and callings are without repentance, the word gift is a strange word. It's actually the Word Charisma. We use it today in it's Greek form. It means to have divine favor, or divine grace.
to do any calling of God, it will take favor, and lots of grace to get the work done.

If God called you to fly in your own Jet, to be unhindered in travel to preach all over, it would take divine favor just to get the jet. So the Calling and grace to do the calling is never removed.

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[John Zain]

We don't believe that anyone permanently possesses the gift of healing.
Healing is God's gift to be distributed as He chooses, when He chooses, and to whom He chooses.

This was Derek Prince's belief ...
that the 9 spiritual gifts (1 Cor 12) were not permanent gifts,
but they were given only when God chose for them to be used.

 

[David777]

Huh.

Hello John Zain, when you mention someone like "Derek Prince" it would be advisable
to provide some qualification. People from all over the World read your posts,
and ask "who is Derek Prince".

In fact I will do it for you.

Peter Derek Vaughan Prince (Bangalore, 14 August 1915–Jerusalem, 24 September 2003)
was an international Bible teacher whose daily radio programme Derek Prince Legacy Radio
(presently hosted by author Stephen Mansfield) broadcasts to half the population of the world
in various languages. These languages include English, Arabic, Spanish, Croatian, Russian, Malagasy,
Tongan, Samoan and four dialects of Chinese. (Wikipedia)

I read my Bible line by line, when it says Spiritual Gifts are given by the Holy Spirit,
that is what it says. I accept it automatically, all scripture is inspired by God.

What has Derek Prince got to do with the scriptures?

You have lost me completely, I do not understand your logic.

 

[judge not]

What people call today ' speaking in tongues ' is nothing like what the Bible records in Acts.
The miracle was one of communication-both in the speaking and mainly in the hearing. The Greek word translated is -glossa-and means languages. every member of the audience could hear in his or her native language.
I've done a little research back on this subject years ago and found the Biblical examples of speaking in tongues stand in contrast to the type of gibberish today where a speakers utters a language no one understands.
Paul warns the church in 1 Cor 14 the proper use of the gift of tongues would be to speak only the language the congregation could understand.
Paul also warned that Christians not to be taken in by spiritual-appearing phenomena, indicating that demon spirits sometimes imitate spiritual gifts like tongues in an attempt to confuse people-1Tim 4:1 and also 1Jn 4:1
If you look at scripture you will notice the speaking of tongues is the lowest ranking gift and Paul says we should not stress over it to the point of being disconcerted.

 

[Brother Mike]

Tongues.

Judge Not?

I've done a little research back on this subject years ago and found the Biblical examples of speaking in tongues stand in contrast to the type of gibberish today where a speakers utters a language no one understands.

Speaking in tongues is gibberish? Really? I guess speaking against the Holy Spirit and the gifts done in ignorance is more than forgivable.

If you want to fix your car, you don't take it to a lawn care specialist, if you want to know about Tongues, you don't ask someone that has never used the gift, or have discounted the gift as "Gibberish"

David777

I read my Bible line by line, when it says Spiritual Gifts are given by the Holy Spirit,
that is what it says. I accept it automatically, all scripture is inspired by God.

I would certainly like to operate all the gifts as I will, but these things just happen from my experience.

Otherwise I have to stick with what my bible says, and they are distributed as needed as the Spirit of God wills.

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

I thought scripture taught that they do. Romans 11:29 The gifts of God are without repentance, no?

Romans 11 is about God's gifts to nnedy recipients, not the people He uses to deliver them (my opinion).

SLE

 

[judge not]

Judge Not?

Speaking in tongues is gibberish? Really? I guess speaking against the Holy Spirit and the gifts done in ignorance is more than forgivable.

If you want to fix your car, you don't take it to a lawn care specialist, if you want to know about Tongues, you don't ask someone that has never used the gift, or have discounted the gift as "Gibberish"

Brother Mike:

The Bible is my source of authority, thank you. If you have any exposure to any religious television programs or live revivals or assemblies, you would know what i'm talking about/ we have people speaking in weird foreign languages that are not recognizable and rolling around on the floor.
If we don't understand what they are speaking, is that the gift of tongues according to scripture?
We should all work to have the fruit of God's Spirit manifest in us.
Should He choose to bestow His gifts upon us we should be humbled and honored.
This is not about you-Paul's complaint was that vanity was creeping into the church and ministers were exploiting their gifts in the wrong way.
jn

 

[Brother Mike]

Thank you.

judge not

The Bible is my source of authority, thank you. If you have any exposure to any religious television programs or live revivals or assemblies, you would know what i'm talking about/ we have people speaking in weird foreign languages that are not recognizable and rolling around on the floor.
If we don't understand what they are speaking, is that the gift of tongues according to scripture?
We should all work to have the fruit of God's Spirit manifest in us.
Should He choose to bestow His gifts upon us we should be humbled and honored.
This is not about you-Paul's complaint was that vanity was creeping into the church and ministers were exploiting their gifts in the wrong way.

Much better post, OK, you did your study, now Go to God and say, if any of this be true, I want the gift of tongues to better serve you.

The gift of tongues Paul listed in the nine where ministry gifts. There must have been issues with it, because Paul had to set a whole bunch of Guide lines. He went on to say.

1Th 5:20 Despise not prophesyings.

If you not been around it, I can tell you what happens. It seems that everyone has a word from God. Your mom is going to die, You need to take this Job, The Lord saith this, and the Lord saith that, and most the time, the Lord said nothing at all. This gets irritating.

The Tongues spoken in Acts were in a known tongue, not known to the ones speaking, it was a supernatural event.

Tongues is the only gift outside the Nine where we pray in the spirit,
The ministry Gift of tongues was to be done if one there is known to interpret, or Just in prayer time with those that do the same, in any case it was to be decent and in Order. Not Church service where you may have some that don't understand.

Tongues is not limited to a known language on earth, Though I have seen this in operation a couple times, even though the person speaking did not know the language.

1Co 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

Often times when Praying in Tongues it changes, a different direction of the Spirit, More in the Spirit, I don't always know, You just pray. It also can change language. Part of the awesome thing about tongues, is that we can go past a situation with our natural understanding. It goes beyond just bless so, and so father.

As for TV, and those Churches where everyone is crawling around on the Ground, and hanging off the walls. All I can say is God bless them, but no thanks. I also don't watch TV.

Just because there are lots of Immature Christians out there, and many do not understand much but "Hey, I can pray in Tongues!!" Does not make these things any less real.

Jesus Is Lord.