What does the word "Torah" mean?

[Jimmie]

What does the word "Torah" mean?


Let’s just talk about the word “Torah” for a moment. It has been mistranslated in Bibles as the word “law” which comes from the Latin “Legis” Something legalistic. Yet the word in the original Hebrew “Torah” means “instruction”, so, every place in the Bible where the word “law” is found should really be translated as “instruction” (from our LORD and God YHVH). Once we get this word from the right perspective, then, a lot of misunderstandings can be corrected. If the word for "Torah" had been correctly translated into Latin, it would have been translated as "instructio" or "educatio" not "legis."

So, how many “Torahs” are there? One? Two? Three? If we investigate way back going about six-thousand years. We come to the creation of this world. Up to the time of Moshe (Moses), YHVH spoke verbally to the patriarchs, starting from Adam and Chavah (Eve). They passed on the words of Elohim to their children and their children to their children and so forth. One could say that this was the first “Oral Torah”. Finally, we come to Moshe and YHVH speaks to him in person. Moshe writes down everything the Adonai tells him and thus, we have the first five books of the Bible. The prophets followed, writing down the words of God, continued by a few kings, namely David and Solomon.

Then we come to the New Covenant letters, and books comprised of Yeshua’s talmidim (disciples) and followers. They were all inspired by the Ruach HaKodesh (The Holy Spirit) as to what to write. They wrote down Adonai’s words in Hebrew and in Greek, since the world was dominated by the Greeks. The best way to reach the nations was to write in Greek. From Greek, the Bible was translated into Latin and then into all the languages of the world.

The Hebraic way of understanding God's Word is through the following ways; "Peshat" (the basic and natural, literal meaning of a verse or verses) "Derash" (a "drash" is a moral or spiritual understanding of the verse or verses) "Remez and Sod" are symbolic meanings, using of course, symbolisms, and also "gematria" which is a number system which assigns each Hebrew letter with a number. When two words have the same number value, there is usually a relationship between the two. Mind you this is NOT numerology. Gematria has been used by rabbis for hundreds of years.

The WORD of God is correct in every detail, there are NO contradictions in it. If there were, that would mean that YHVH is a God of error, and this is not so. Those who say that there are contradictions, do not understand the original words and their meanings, therefore, it is a good thing to have a basic knowledge of Hebrew and Greek. Why did YHVH give us HIS complete and Holy WORD?

The WORD of God is read in a continuous cycle. It is all related, one part with another. There are a few ways in which we can look at it. For example. When we finish reading Deuteronomy, we begin again with Genesis. The last word in Deuteronomy is “Israel” and the first word in Genesis is “B’reisheet” (In the beginning). So how do we inter-relate this? One could say that “In the beginning” even before the foundations of the world, God had “Israel” in his heart and mind. We could take a step further. The last letter of the word “Israel” is the “l” (lamed) and the first letter in Genesis is “B” (Beit). Lamed and Beit (L + V) spell “Lev” which means “heart”

We could say that God had Israel always in his “heart” even at the beginning of everything. The gematria for “Lev” is 30 + 2 = 32. 3 + 2 = 5, “5” is the number of “grace”. God had grace in his heart for Israel, even when Israel walked away and went after idols. “Lev” is also “instruction for the house”. The Torah is instruction for the “House of God”.

We could go a step further. The Torah doesn’t stop at the end of Deuteronomy but continues to Malachi. The last word in Malachi is “curse” (in English) but in Hebrew, the word is “Cherem” The prophet is admonishing his people to repent or Adonai will strike the earth with a curse.

Genesis starts with a “Blessing” the perfect creation of the earth for mankind, yet at the end, we see a “curse” that man brought upon himself when he sinned, so in that way, “blessings and curses” are related. We can have one or the other, obedience or disobedience, our choice.

We can also see that the last letter in Malachi is a “mem” (m) which symbolizes “water” and in Genesis, the earth was formed out of “water”.
When we read the Book of Revelation, we see that the very last word is; "Amen" the letter "n" in Hebrew is "Nun" So when we take the first letter of the Bible/Torah "B" and add the last letter of the Bible/Torah "N" we get the word "Ben" (son) so the whole Bible/Torah directs a person to the "Son" (of God) who is Yeshua.

The Torah is about a perfect and Holy God, whose most holy name is Yod Hey Vav Hey (YHVH). Written with ancient paleo-Hebrew letters, the letters symbolize “Behold the hand, behold the nail”. A perfect revelation of Messiah Yeshua on Calvary’s cross, receiving in his hands, the nails that held him fast to the crucifixion stake. There he paid for all of our sins, past, present, and future.

Second, the Bible was written to humanity because, in the fallen state caused by sin, man had to be re-directed back to YHVH, through Yeshua. In this way, mankind could have a renewed covenant relationship with his creator. Yeshua described it as the “New Birth” in John 3:3.

Once man has a renewed relationship with YHVH, he is directed towards a holy, sanctified living through following the commandments which were written down by Moshe. Yeshua also fulfilled the commandments by giving a correct interpretation of them and how they applied to our lives. Even though there are 613 commandments (mitzvoth) in all. Not all apply to us today, since we are not under the Levitical priesthood, nor are we under the animal sacrificial system. Still, many DO apply to us, and that is the reason for Bible/Torah study.

Today, we have “commentaries” on God’s word, or, “Midrashim”. About 400 years after Yeshua, the rabbis and sages compiled the “Talmud” which are commentaries on the Torah, written by the rabbis of old. These are books, articles, and writings, that rabbis have written, giving THEIR interpretation of what the Torah means, but, it is only “commentary”. Is it good to read and study the Talmud? I would say it is good to read ALL things related to God’s Word, BUT, we should always compare commentary to the written WORD of God. If it lines up with what the Bible teaches, it is a good thing, if not, as I said, it is just, “commentary” the opinion of someone who is not God. As one rabbi said, “Reading commentary is like eating a bony fish. Throw away the bones and digest the meat!”

“Torah Parashot” or “Portions from the Torah” are read and studied every week for one year. A “Torah portion” consists of readings from the five books that Moshe wrote. Many refer to the first 5 books of Moses as the "Law of Moses." This also is a misnomer. Moses was not the author of the Torah (which many call "law") The author was God, and He gave the instructions to Moses to write down and pass along to others. Then we have the readings from the Prophets, and readings from the Brit HaDashah, “The New Covenant”. The readings start on the Day of Simchat Torah. On this day, we start from the “beginning” which is a perfect place to start any reading. Today, is the day we start reading Genesis 1:1. I'll send the Genesis study a little while later.

Ben Avraham

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Yep, instruction from God, rather than law.

 

[Johann]

Torah in Five Books
The word Torah literally means “instruction”—meaning some sort of guidance in life.

But when Jews say “Torah,” they’re most likely speaking of the Five Books of Moses, the foundation of all Jewish instruction and guidance. We also call it the Chumash, from the Hebrew chamesh, which means five—just like the not-so-Jewish and somewhat archaic title Pentateuch comes from the Greek prefix penta, also meaning five.

Often, when people talk about “a Torah,” they are referring to a parchment scroll version of the Five Books of Moses that is kept in the ark of the synagogue and taken out to be read during services.

(Photo: Beis Yisroel Torah Gemach)
(Photo: Beis Yisroel Torah Gemach)
Torah in 24 Books
The Five Books of Moses are actually one section of a collection of works which is also called Torah, but otherwise known as Tanach (תנ״ך).

Tanach is an acronym of the words:

Torah: Chumash (Five Books of Moses) —as above

Nevi’im (Prophets)

Ketuvim (Writings, such as Psalms, Lamentations and Proverbs)

There is a distinction, however.1 Although all the books of Tanach All the books of Torah are divine works, yet the Chumash holds a unique place. are revered as divine works, the Chumash holds a unique place. That’s because the Chumash is the work of Moses, and the veracity of the Moses’ prophecy is based on a national experience—an event at Mount Sinai in which the entire nation witnessed G‑d communicating with him.

Until that point, the people could not be entirely certain that what Moses was telling them was truly from G‑d. They had no empirical evidence other than his miracle-working—but what do miracles demonstrate? Only an ability to perform the supernatural; they are not evidence that G‑d has spoken to you or anyone else. That is why only when the people saw and heard for themselves did they no longer bear doubts.

Click here to read How Do We Know We Heard G‑d at Sinai?
All other prophecies in Tanach, whether Samuel or Isaiah or Daniel, were the testimony of a single individual. They are believed only because Moses instructed us—in G‑d’s name—to believe and to obey prophets who fulfill the conditions set out clearly for them. Someone who speaks in the name of G‑d but does not fulfill these conditions is to be harshly punished—regardless of the miracles he may perform.2

Obviously then, no prophet can add or detract from anything Moses taught—since their credibility rests entirely on his authority.3 The prophets come only to explain, elaborate and admonish the people to keep “the Torah of Moses,” as the last of them, Malachi, said, “Be mindful of the Teaching of My servant Moses, whom I charged at Horeb with laws and rules for all Israel.”4

To read Maimonides’ classic exposition of this distinction, click here and read the following three chapters.
Tanach is sometimes referred to by the rest of the world as “The Hebrew Bible.” Jews wrote many other books of history, wisdom and prophecy, but none of these were considered to be divine and eternal so as to be included in Tanach.

So I could also say, “The Song of Songs is a book of the Torah”—even though it’s not one of the Five Books of Moses.

Shalom

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Torah in Five Books
The word Torah literally means “instruction”—meaning some sort of guidance in life.

But when Jews say “Torah,” they’re most likely speaking of the Five Books of Moses, the foundation of all Jewish instruction and guidance. We also call it the Chumash, from the Hebrew chamesh, which means five—just like the not-so-Jewish and somewhat archaic title Pentateuch comes from the Greek prefix penta, also meaning five.

Often, when people talk about “a Torah,” they are referring to a parchment scroll version of the Five Books of Moses that is kept in the ark of the synagogue and taken out to be read during services.

(Photo: Beis Yisroel Torah Gemach)
(Photo: Beis Yisroel Torah Gemach)
Torah in 24 Books
The Five Books of Moses are actually one section of a collection of works which is also called Torah, but otherwise known as Tanach (תנ״ך).

Tanach is an acronym of the words:

Torah: Chumash (Five Books of Moses) —as above

Nevi’im (Prophets)

Ketuvim (Writings, such as Psalms, Lamentations and Proverbs)

There is a distinction, however.1 Although all the books of Tanach All the books of Torah are divine works, yet the Chumash holds a unique place. are revered as divine works, the Chumash holds a unique place. That’s because the Chumash is the work of Moses, and the veracity of the Moses’ prophecy is based on a national experience—an event at Mount Sinai in which the entire nation witnessed G‑d communicating with him.

Until that point, the people could not be entirely certain that what Moses was telling them was truly from G‑d. They had no empirical evidence other than his miracle-working—but what do miracles demonstrate? Only an ability to perform the supernatural; they are not evidence that G‑d has spoken to you or anyone else. That is why only when the people saw and heard for themselves did they no longer bear doubts.

Click here to read How Do We Know We Heard G‑d at Sinai?
All other prophecies in Tanach, whether Samuel or Isaiah or Daniel, were the testimony of a single individual. They are believed only because Moses instructed us—in G‑d’s name—to believe and to obey prophets who fulfill the conditions set out clearly for them. Someone who speaks in the name of G‑d but does not fulfill these conditions is to be harshly punished—regardless of the miracles he may perform.2

Obviously then, no prophet can add or detract from anything Moses taught—since their credibility rests entirely on his authority.3 The prophets come only to explain, elaborate and admonish the people to keep “the Torah of Moses,” as the last of them, Malachi, said, “Be mindful of the Teaching of My servant Moses, whom I charged at Horeb with laws and rules for all Israel.”4

To read Maimonides’ classic exposition of this distinction, click here and read the following three chapters.
Tanach is sometimes referred to by the rest of the world as “The Hebrew Bible.” Jews wrote many other books of history, wisdom and prophecy, but none of these were considered to be divine and eternal so as to be included in Tanach.

So I could also say, “The Song of Songs is a book of the Torah”—even though it’s not one of the Five Books of Moses.

Shalom

Shalom brother. If the whole bible were a house, than the creation week is the blueprint, the Torah the foundation, OT the ground floor, NT the second floor. It's never gone "obsolete". It requires a thorough study of the first five books to understand the rest of the bible.

 

[Johann]

. It's never gone "obsolete". It requires a thorough study of the first five books to understand the rest of the bible

I fully concur Jonathan, but nowadays there is a lot of talk among the Orthodox Jewish rabbis that our Brit Chadassa/New Covenant is a "copy and paste" or "glued" to the Torah, not infallible.
Something I don't agree with.
Shalom
Johann

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

I fully concur Jonathan, but nowadays there is a lot of talk among the Orthodox Jewish rabbis that our Brit Chadassa/New Covenant is a "copy and paste" or "glued" to the Torah, not infallible.
Something I don't agree with.
Shalom
Johann

That's a shame. 'cause everything in the OT points to Yeshua. NT is the fulfillment of OT, or in pastor Matthew Nolan of Torah to the Tribes' words, "OT in ACTION.“ They deny the NT because Yeshua DECONSTRUCTED their doctrines. You've probably heard this term, "deconstruction", in the news narrative it's a newspeak term for going apostasy, former devout pastors, teachers and singers suddenly abandoning their faith; but this can be turned into a positive way, which was what Yeshua did in his first speech, Sermon on the Mount, he deconstructed quite a lot of doctrines and practices, and taught the spirit and purpose of the Torah. And he spoke in AUTHORITY, instead of quoting this or that rabbi.

 

[Johann]

That's a shame. 'cause everything in the OT points to Yeshua. NT is the fulfillment of OT, or in pastor Matthew Nolan of Torah to the Tribes' words, "OT in ACTION.“ They deny the NT because Yeshua DECONSTRUCTED their doctrines. You've probably heard this term, "deconstruction", in the news narrative it's a newspeak term for going apostasy, former devout pastors, teachers and singers suddenly abandoning their faith; but this can be turned into a positive way, which was what Yeshua did in his first speech, Sermon on the Mount, he deconstructed quite a lot of doctrines and practices, and taught the spirit and purpose of the Torah. And he spoke in AUTHORITY, instead of quoting this or that rabbi.

The rabbis would tell you no way does the OT "point" to Yeshua and that Isaiah 53 is about YisraEl, not Jesus.
Problem here is that most professed Christians are going through the gate of Judaism.
Really sad, I'm afraid to say.
Shalom
Johann.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

The rabbis would tell you no way does the OT "point" to Yeshua and that Isaiah 53 is about YisraEl, not Jesus.
Problem here is that most professed Christians are going through the gate of Judaism.
Really sad, I'm afraid to say.
Shalom
Johann.

They do have a point though. You see, I address our Lord and Savior as Yeshua instead of Jesus all the time because there're a lot of false versions of the messiah out there, you've got the Catholic Jesus, self-help guru Jesus, social justice warrior Jesus, political reformer Jesus, hippie Jesus, and even curse word Jesus, but there's only one Yeshua that OT points to who died for the sin of mankind on the cross as the perfect lamb.

 

[Johann]

They do have a point though. You see, I address our Lord and Savior as Yeshua instead of Jesus all the time because there're a lot of false versions of the messiah out there, you've got the Catholic Jesus, self-help guru Jesus, social justice warrior Jesus, political reformer Jesus, hippie Jesus, and even curse word Jesus, but there's only one Yeshua that OT points to who died for the sin of mankind on the cross as the perfect lamb.

Nothing wrong in addressing Yeshua as Jesus.

Gal 1:6 I am astonished and extremely irritated that you are so quickly shifting your allegiance and deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different [even contrary] gospel;
Gal 1:7 which is really not another [gospel]; but there are [obviously] some [people masquerading as teachers] who are disturbing and confusing you [with a misleading, counterfeit teaching] and want to distort the gospel of Christ [twisting it into something which it absolutely is not].
Gal 1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we [originally] preached to you, let him be condemned to destruction!
Gal 1:9 As we have said before, so I now say again, if anyone is preaching to you a gospel different from that which you received [from us], let him be condemned to destruction!
Gal 1:10 Am I now trying to win the favor and approval of men, or of God? Or am I seeking to please someone? If I were still trying to be popular with men, I would not be a bond-servant of Christ.
AMP
Gal 1:6 I am shocked that so quickly you are being turned from the One who granted you the kri'ah (calling), summoning you by the Chen v'Chesed Hashem of Moshiach. I am shocked that so quickly you are being turned from this to a different "Besuras HaGeulah."
Gal 1:7 Not that there is another, mind you! Except that there are some individuals disturbing and troubling (5:12) you, desiring to twist and pervert the Besuras HaGeulah (Yeshayah 40:9; 60:6) of Moshiach.
Gal 1:8 But even if we [Shlichim, emissaries of Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach] or a malach from Shomayim should pose as maggidim [for Moshiach] and make a hachrazah (proclamation) to you of a "Besuras HaGeulah" other than that Besuras HaGeulah which we preached to you, let such a one be ARUR HAISH ("Cursed is the man," YEHOSHUA 6:26) and set under cherem (ban of destruction) and onesh Gehinnom (damnation).
Gal 1:9 As we have previously said, and now again I say, if any one preaches a "Besuras HaGeulah" to you other than that which you received, let him be ARUR HAISH and be consigned to onesh Gehinnom.

τεξεται δε υιον και καλεσεις το ονομα αυτου ιησουν αυτος γαρ σωσει τον λαον αυτου απο των αμαρτιων αυτων
Thou shalt call his name Jesus (Kalesies to onoma autou Iēsoun).

The rabbis named six whose names were given before birth: “Isaac, Ishmael, Moses, Solomon, Josiah, and the name of the Messiah, whom may the Holy One, blessed be His name, bring in our day.”

The angel puts it up to Joseph as the putative father to name the child. “Jesus is the same as Joshua, a contraction of Jehoshuah (Num_13:16; 1Ch_7:27), signifying in Hebrew, ‘Jehovah is helper,’ or ‘Help of Jehovah’”(Broadus). So Jesus is the Greek form of Joshua (Heb_4:8). He is another Joshua to lead the true people of God into the Promised Land. The name itself was common enough as Josephus shows. Jehovah is Salvation as seen in Joshua for the Hebrews and in Jesus for all believers. “The meaning of the name, therefore, finds expression in the title Saviour applied to our Lord (Luk_1:47; Luk_2:11; Joh_4:42)” (Vincent). He will save (sōsei) his people from their sins and so be their Saviour (Sōtēr). He will be prophet, priest, and king, but “Saviour” sums it all up in one word. The explanation is carried out in the promise, “for he is the one who (autos) will save (sōsei with a play on the name Jesus) his people from their sins.” Paul will later explain that by the covenant people, the children of promise, God means the spiritual Israel, all who believe whether Jews or Gentiles. This wonderful word touches the very heart of the mission and message of the Messiah. Jesus himself will show that the kingdom of heaven includes all those and only those who have the reign of God in their hearts and lives.
From their sins (apo tōn hamartiōn autōn). Both sins of omission and of commission. The substantive (hamartia) is from the verb (hamartanein) and means missing the mark as with an arrow. How often the best of us fall short and fail to score. Jesus will save us away from (apo) as well as out of (ex) our sins. They will be cast into oblivion and he will cover them up out of sight.
2Pe 3:3 First of all, know [without any doubt] that mockers will come in the last days with their mocking, following after their own human desires
2Pe 3:4 and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming [what has become of it]? For ever since the fathers fell asleep [in death], all things have continued [exactly] as they did from the beginning of creation."
2Pe 3:5 For they willingly forget [the fact] that the heavens existed long ago by the word of God, and the earth was formed out of water and by water,
2Pe 3:6 through which the world at that time was destroyed by being flooded with water. [Gen_1:6-8; Gen_7:11]
2Pe 3:7 But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly people.
AMP

Heb 1:1 God, having spoken to the fathers long ago in [the voices and writings of] the prophets in many separate revelations [each of which set forth a portion of the truth], and in many ways,
Heb 1:2 has in these last days spoken [with finality] to us in [the person of One who is by His character and nature] His Son [namely Jesus], whom He appointed heir and lawful owner of all things, through whom also He created the universe [that is, the universe as a space-time-matter continuum].
AMP
In many and various drakhim (ways) Hashem in amolike times (olden times) spoke to the Avot by the Nevi'im.
Heb 1:2 At the Ketz HaYamim, Hashem spoke to us by HaBen, whom He appointed Bechor of the Bechorah, Yoresh Kol (Heir of All Things), through whom also Hashem BARAH ES HASHOMAYIM V'ES HA’ARETZ (see Prov 30:4);
OJB
WORSHIP, TRUE AND FALSE
(A) MISCELLANEOUS TOPICS relating to true worship
(1) Of God Enjoined
Deu_26:10; 2Ki_17:36; 1Ch_16:29; Psa_29:2; Psa_95:6; Psa_96:9; Psa_99:5
Zec_14:17; Mat_4:10; Joh_4:24; Rev_14:7; Rev_15:4; Rev_19:10; Rev_22:9
--SEE Fear God, REVERENCE
Godly Reverence, REVERENCE
(2) Of Christ
Mat_2:11; Mat_14:33; Mat_28:9; Luk_24:52; Heb_1:6; Rev_5:8
--SEE Divinity of Christ, CHRIST'S DIVINITY-HUMANITY
Reverence, REVERENCE

Many pseudo-Christ's, anti Christ's..waiting for Messiah ben Yoseph, Messiah ben David....So there is nothing wrong in calling our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, and not Yehowshua.

...and many heteros teachings will abound in the last days......

DOCTRINE
(1) False
Isa_32:6; Mat_16:12; Col_2:8; Heb_13:9
--SEE False Teachers, LEADERS
Heresy, HERESY
Seducers, TEMPTATION
Deceivers, FALSEHOOD
(2) Good
Deu_32:2; Pro_4:2; 1Ti_4:6; Tit_1:9; Tit_2:1
---Christ's SEE Teaching, Christs, TEACHER, DIVINE


Shalom
Johann

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Many pseudo-Christ's, anti Christ's..waiting for Messiah ben Yoseph, Messiah ben David....So there is nothing wrong in calling our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, and not Yehowshua.

...and many heteros teachings will abound in the last days......

I've heard that historically, Jews had this understanding that the Messiah would come TWO TIMES as the son of Joseph and as the son of David separately, first like as a suffering servant like Joseph, second time as a conquering king like David. Joseph is referring to the patriarch Joseph who was sold as a slave into Egypt by his brothers, throughout the whole OT, he was THE most messian-like figure; and the phrase "son of" herein is usually not referring to a biological son of somebody, but rather a personification of somebody or something, so that this intangible concept, quality, phenomena or historical figure could be manifested in a living person. This definition is applied in many instances over the gospel accounts such as "sons of thunder", "sons of the devil", and Yeshua's own titles "son of God" as well, since he was the second Adan, the living and breathing image of God.

Yeshua once said that he came for the "lost house of Israel", that was talking about Ephraim, the northern kingdom of Israel, the "ten lost tribes", and also the "wild olive tree" in Rom. 11. In Israel's national emblem there're a menorah and two olive branches on either side, that's plucked from Zachariah's vision, those two olive trees are the two houses of Israel. They were scattered across the whole wide world, and Yeshua came to gather them back together unto him. When this mission is accomplished, aka "the fullness of the gentiles," then he'll return to establish his kingdom.

 

[joestue]

I've heard that historically, Jews had this understanding that the Messiah would come TWO TIMES as the son of Joseph and as the son of David separately, first like as a suffering servant like Joseph, second time as a conquering king like David

Heard that as well and the issue is they rejected him the first time.

Likely even when he proves himself to be the conquering king they will reject him again, because as they did the first time, they wanted him to overthrow Rome.

Well Rome will still exist xxxx years from now and I find it interesting how infuriating it will be for all the Christians today to find out that when Jesus returns he will set up his kingdom... And not slaughter everyone else.

You will need to exercise your own free will to submit to his laws instruction rules whatever you want to call it.

And at the end of the 1000 years Satan (whatever he is) will be let out (whatever that means) to go tempt everyone again thinking they can purge the earth of a certain stumbling stone that was getting in their way for 1000 years.

My hypothesis is none of this will occur the way we can understand it today,

And just as the Jews wanted to go back to Egypt 1 year after they left.. well... 2 out of 600,000 got to go into the promised land.

I don't have much hope for a better ratio when Jesus returns.

 

[Johann]

Heard that as well and the issue is they rejected him the first time.

Likely even when he proves himself to be the conquering king they will reject him again, because as they did the first time, they wanted him to overthrow Rome.

Well Rome will still exist xxxx years from now and I find it interesting how infuriating it will be for all the Christians today to find out that when Jesus returns he will set up his kingdom... And not slaughter everyone else.

You will need to exercise your own free will to submit to his laws instruction rules whatever you want to call it.

And at the end of the 1000 years Satan (whatever he is) will be let out (whatever that means) to go tempt everyone again thinking they can purge the earth of a certain stumbling stone that was getting in their way for 1000 years.

My hypothesis is none of this will occur the way we can understand it today,

And just as the Jews wanted to go back to Egypt 1 year after they left.. well... 2 out of 600,000 got to go into the promised land.

I don't have much hope for a better ratio when Jesus returns.

Well said @joestue
Noah went in. Gen_7:1; Gen_7:13-15, Gen_6:18, +*Pro_22:3, +Mat_24:37; +Mat_24:38, Luk_17:27, *Heb_6:18; Heb_11:7, 1Pe_3:20, 2Pe_2:5.

1Pe 3:20 because they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.
Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.


By the narrow gate (dia tēs stenēs pulēs). The Authorized Version “at the strait gate” misled those who did not distinguish between “strait” and “straight.” The figure of the Two Ways had a wide circulation in Jewish and Christian writings (cf. Deu_30:19; Jer_21:8; Psa_1:1-6). See the Didache i-vi; Barnabas xviii-xx. “The narrow gate” is repeated in Mat_7:14 and
straitened the way (tethlimmenē hē hodos) added. The way is “compressed,” narrowed as in a defile between high rocks, a tight place like stenochōria in Rom_8:35. “The way that leads to life involves straits and afflictions” (McNeile). Vincent quotes the Pinax or Tablet of Cebes, a contemporary of Socrates: “Seest thou not, then, a little door, and a way before the door, which is not much crowded, but very few travel it? This is the way that leadeth unto true culture.” “The broad way” (euruchōros) is in every city, town, village, with the glaring white lights that lure to destruction.
Robertson

I thoroughly enjoy your ..."Satan (whatever he is) will be let out (whatever that means)...."
And I fully concur with your hypothesis.
I have read somewhere that if the Mighty YHVH can "fit" into my 3 pound brain, He is not worthy to be worshipped.

Shalom and God bless
Johann

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Heard that as well and the issue is they rejected him the first time.

Likely even when he proves himself to be the conquering king they will reject him again, because as they did the first time, they wanted him to overthrow Rome.

Well Rome will still exist xxxx years from now and I find it interesting how infuriating it will be for all the Christians today to find out that when Jesus returns he will set up his kingdom... And not slaughter everyone else.

You will need to exercise your own free will to submit to his laws instruction rules whatever you want to call it.

And at the end of the 1000 years Satan (whatever he is) will be let out (whatever that means) to go tempt everyone again thinking they can purge the earth of a certain stumbling stone that was getting in their way for 1000 years.

My hypothesis is none of this will occur the way we can understand it today,

And just as the Jews wanted to go back to Egypt 1 year after they left.. well... 2 out of 600,000 got to go into the promised land.

I don't have much hope for a better ratio when Jesus returns.

Technically, only adult men over 20 years old, child and women didn't count in their census, but the principle is clear, that nobody except Joshua and Caleb that came out of Egypt might enter the promised land, it was prepared for the next generation. Yeshua mentioned that "your fathers ate manna in the wilderness, and they all died." This doesn't necessarily mean that all the rest including Moses were blotted from God's book, but a simple principle, that our old physical being born out of the flesh will eventually perish in this world like these Israelites, only our new being born out of the spirit can make it to the kingdom. It has been proven by the disastrous outcomes of countless social experiments, starting with the Tower of Babel, that there's no way to build a utopia on earth, as there's no way to bring the Promised Land into the wilderness. "Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven," that's a prophecy, not an order.

 

[Johann]

Yeshua once said that he came for the "lost house of Israel", that was talking about Ephraim, the northern kingdom of Israel, the "ten lost tribes", and also the "wild olive tree" in Rom. 11. In Israel's national emblem there're a menorah and two olive branches on either side, that's plucked from Zachariah's vision, those two olive trees are the two houses of Israel. They were scattered across the whole wide world, and Yeshua came to gather them back together unto him. When this mission is accomplished, aka "the fullness of the gentiles," then he'll return to establish his kingdom.

No mission to the HaGoyim?

Johann.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

No mission to the HaGoyim?

Johann.

Israel is of many nations since the beginning. In God's covenant with Abraham, he was blessed to be the father of "many nations"; when Jacob blessed Ephraim on his deathbed, Ephraim was to become "many nations"; when God brought the Israelites out of Egypt, a "mixed multitude" followed them, that actually explain how their population grew from seventy to a million over only a few centuries. The identity of Israel comes from a common culture based on the Torah, not pedigree. Before Yeshua, Israelites were assimilated into gentiles as they abandoned Elohim and worship other deities, of which both Ephraim and Judah were guilty; after Yeshua, they are being brought BACK to Elohim, and the process is reversed, now gentiles are being assimilated into the Commonwealth of Israel.

 

[Johann]

Israel is of many nations since the beginning. In God's covenant with Abraham, he was blessed to be the father of "many nations"; when Jacob blessed Ephraim on his deathbed, Ephraim was to become "many nations"; when God brought the Israelites out of Egypt, a "mixed multitude" followed them, that actually explain how their population grew from seventy to a million over only a few centuries. The identity of Israel comes from a common culture based on the Torah, not pedigree. Before Yeshua, Israelites were assimilated into gentiles as they abandoned Elohim and worship other deities, of which both Ephraim and Judah were guilty; after Yeshua, they are being brought BACK to Elohim, and the process is reversed, now gentiles are being assimilated into the Commonwealth of Israel.

Act 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
Act 13:47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.
Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Act 13:49 And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region.
Act 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
Rom_3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

Rom_3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:

Rom_9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Rom_9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

Rom_11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

Rom_11:12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

Rom_11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

Rom_11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Rom_15:9 And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.

Rom_15:10 And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people.

Rom_15:11 And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people.

Rom_15:12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.

Rom_15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

Rom_15:18 For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,

Rom_15:27 It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things.

Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Praise our Father and our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, for His d'var.

God bless
Johann

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Act 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
Act 13:47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.
Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Act 13:49 And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region.
Act 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
Rom_3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

Rom_3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:

Rom_9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Rom_9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

Rom_11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

Rom_11:12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

Rom_11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

Rom_11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Rom_15:9 And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.

Rom_15:10 And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people.

Rom_15:11 And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people.

Rom_15:12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.

Rom_15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

Rom_15:18 For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,

Rom_15:27 It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things.

Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Praise our Father and our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, for His d'var.

God bless
Johann

Jer. 31:31, "a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah."

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Nothing wrong in addressing Yeshua as Jesus.

Yes, but I just wanna avoid the negative cultural connotation attached to his name.