What does Jesus mean when he says

[Barny]

I just did not see where you addressed the essential element of what I was saying, in my rather long post. God is either in the heart of the believer or He is not a believer. If He is in the heart of a believer, should not those same Children of God exhibit a change evident to all the world? That is either yes or no. Now that change is part of the growth process, and given time that same Thief on the Cross, would have also exhibited that evidence and is the reason I used "should" in asking my question

Speaking from my own life experience, my behaviour/lifestyle has improved as I've grown in my Christian walk.

But Christians need to be careful of judging one another or comparing themselves amongst themselves. Like I said before, we're each at different stages of growth. In addition some will grow faster than others. But each Christian's walk is something that God is working through. Trust in Him to do it.

Our job is not to judge another's lifestyle/behavior. Instead we are to encourage one another to continue to believe on Jesus.

But the issue I'm addressing is that there are some professing Christians alleging that Christians are not righteous unless they obey the law perfectly. Those preaching such messages are in unbelief, seeking to establish righteousness by works of the law. The message they preach is one of hate in that they suppress the truth in unrighteousness. They seek to ensure people remain spiritually hungry, thirsty, naked, sick, in prison and alienated from the commonwealth of Israel.

Do you acknowledge that in love/compassion, we preach the gospel of grace to spiritually feed/clothe the poor, help the spiritually sick, visit those in spiritual prison and take in strangers who are alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, as described in Matt 25?

Yet the evidence is not the obligatory one that would readily come to mind of the physical man, rather the actions of one who is reflecting the same said Love that resides in His Heart, which is God who is Spiritual. Our Lord not only was Spiritual, but Physical as well, in word, deed, in spirit and flesh. His life is evidence of this.

Please correct me if I misunderstand you, but you seem to be saying that Christians must display perfect obedience to the law just as Jesus did. Is that correct?

 

[Christ4Ever]

@Barny

Speaking from my own life experience, my behaviour/lifestyle has improved as I've grown in my Christian walk.
But Christians need to be careful of judging one another or comparing themselves amongst themselves. Like I said before, we're each at different stages of growth. In addition some will grow faster than others. But each Christian's walk is something that God is working through. Trust in Him to do it.

Yes brother! In time even the most granite of believers heart cannot help but succumb to God being in their heart! (And no I'm not saying you have a heart of granite!) The growth is inevitable with a believer. The pace however, one can see is different for each, yet ever onward as you yourself have stated.

Our job is not to judge another's lifestyle/behavior. Instead we are to encourage one another to continue to believe on Jesus.

Ah to judge! Such a misused word. It leaves no room for Love my brother and even viewed with compassion very little room at that. Would it have been better to have used the word moderator or even go between.

With growing in the Spirit, we also know that there are obstacles that are part of our walk, which we have either carried with us or met along the path we travel and have chosen to pick up and carry it along with us. You barny know that it is the flesh, which has no hold upon us who believe. Still the bindings created of Illusions can be as strong as any man made chain and to some stronger still.

(This is between believer & believer) "believe on Jesus" is a concept and unless broken down is stationary in communicating of what is to be found within those words. Love which is the very essence of Jesus does not necessarily require complete understanding of the circumstance to act with. That is why so many believers have difficulties in applying (growth) one concept which almost requires the one believing to have (almost) a complete understanding before they act, while they could have been using the other that requires nothing but the act itself. An example is the Good Samaritan (Even viewed within a spiritual context).

But the issue I'm addressing is that there are some professing Christians alleging that Christians are not righteous unless they obey the law perfectly. Those preaching such messages are in unbelief, seeking to establish righteousness by works of the law. The message they preach is one of hate in that they suppress the truth in unrighteousness. They seek to ensure people remain spiritually hungry, thirsty, naked, sick, in prison and alienated from the commonwealth of Israel.

Do you acknowledge that in love/compassion, we preach the gospel of grace to spiritually feed/clothe the poor, help the spiritually sick, visit those in spiritual prison and take in strangers who are alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, as described in Matt 25?

You know brother, that you would have to translate much that happens here. When was the last time you trimmed a lamp? I might have done that once while camping many, many years ago.

For if you love how could one not have compassion? Is not the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ all of what you say and more? To set standards of spirit or laws if you will; only prevents the greater act of love from being brought to the front of one's life.

If you Love my brother you will be on the "right hand".

Please correct me if I misunderstand you, but you seem to be saying that Christians must display perfect obedience to the law just as Jesus did. Is that correct?

(My spirit jumped in joy when I read the above.) No brother. Who but our Lord could display perfect obedience as you have said? I know of no one. What a burden that must be to carry! I would gladly lift it if I could. That is the war of flesh and spirit.

Can you begin to understand why "God who is Love" in the Heart of the believer, cuts to the very life of every believer? To Spirit/Law?

 

[Barny]

Ah to judge! Such a misused word. It leaves no room for Love my brother and even viewed with compassion very little room at that. Would it have been better to have used the word moderator or even go between.

Scripture uses the word "judge", which is much easier to understand it's application than "moderator or even go between".

And like you say, "judge" leaves no room for love. The Pharisees sought to stone the woman caught in adultery, for her unrighteousness, but Jesus stopped them. Jesus loved her, forgave her.

(This is between believer & believer) "believe on Jesus" is a concept and unless broken down is stationary in communicating of what is to be found within those words.

No offense, but the thief on the cross did not have to have "believe on Jesus" broken down before he knew what he was doing. That thief called Jesus "Lord" seeking his mercy.

Love which is the very essence of Jesus does not necessarily require complete understanding of the circumstance to act with. That is why so many believers have difficulties in applying (growth) one concept which almost requires the one believing to have (almost) a complete understanding before they act, while they could have been using the other that requires nothing but the act itself. An example is the Good Samaritan (Even viewed within a spiritual context).

There are many non-believers who act in love like the good Samaritan. Yet they're lost. They do not believe on Jesus, which results in being righteous, holy, perfected, without sin, all due to Christ's sacrifice.

For if you love how could one not have compassion? Is not the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ all of what you say and more? To set standards of spirit or laws if you will; only prevents the greater act of love from being brought to the front of one's life.

I agree. To use the law as the means to determine one's righteousness only prevents love.

But we also see in scripture that it's seeking to be perfected by the flesh, rebellion against God in not submitting to His righteousness.

 

[Christ4Ever]

@Barny

Scripture uses the word "judge", which is much easier to understand it's application than "moderator or even go between".

What I stated is not so far off then you think. The narrowness of the definition used can determine its application. Mine was in "to find a resolution to" not as in "making a determination of" which is why I added go between. God provided Judges to His people in the OT. They determined many things, but also resolved much as well.

And like you say, "judge" leaves no room for love. The Pharisees sought to stone the woman caught in adultery, for her unrighteousness, but Jesus stopped them. Jesus loved her, forgave her.

Do you ever wonder if she grew from this experience?

No offense, but the thief on the cross did not have to have "believe on Jesus" broken down before he knew what he was doing. That thief called Jesus "Lord" seeking his mercy.

I was only repeating the term you had used brother and showing that they are only words, and what transcends that is Love which encompasses that and so much more. If that thief could not speak, would he have still been saved? The value of his words was to the writer and so to us. If it was communicated instead: "the thief believed in his heart" would it still have the impact towards understanding about Salvation or would the questions and suppositions derived from such, totally obscure the message of Salvation?

There are many non-believers who act in love like the good Samaritan. Yet they're lost. They do not believe on Jesus, which results in being righteous, holy, perfected, without sin, all due to Christ's sacrifice.

Do you believe that Jesus was talking about the status (Salvation) of each of the individuals he mentioned "Priest, Levite, Samaritan"?

Remember what I wrote leading into that example (This is between believer & believer) which was in your use of "believe on Jesus".

I know that you would want to believe that I am tying the law and salvation together, but I am not. Not I dear brother.

I agree. To use the law as the means to determine one's righteousness only prevents love.

Well said. The key word you used "determine", for it speaks of finality. Love as in our God is infinite!

But we also see in scripture that it's seeking to be perfected by the flesh, rebellion against God in not submitting to His righteousness.

Is not scripture spiritually discerned?

 

[Barny]

What I stated is not so far off then you think. The narrowness of the definition used can determine its application. Mine was in "to find a resolution to" not as in "making a determination of" which is why I added go between. God provided Judges to His people in the OT. They determined many things, but also resolved much as well.

We see "judge" differently. I'm not sure what you mean by "find a resolution to" when my reference to "judge not", from scripture, was in a very different context. I used the term "judge" in terms of judging one's righteousness by deeds of the law (which is the definition most commonly discussed under topics such as these.

Forums are challenging places to communicate one's message. Misunderstandings easily occur when terms are used differently.

I know that you would want to believe that I am tying the law and salvation together, but I am not. Not I dear brother.

Perhaps you can explain in more simple, direct terms what you are trying to say. I have been wondering what you have been trying to lead in to, and as you rightly said, I suspected that you were trying to tie the law and salvation together.

My experience on forums has often been with legalists who use the label "Love" as a facade to try to lead others into works of the law for righteousness. Sadly the label "Love" is often wrongly used to try to sway others over issues. I've even heard the label "Love" used to support pedophilia and homosexuality.

Remember, as I said before, forums are challenging places to get our message across clearly. All the more reason to keep it simple and direct with scripture to support it.

Thanks for your patience.

 

[Christ4Ever]

@Barny

We see "judge" differently. I'm not sure what you mean by "find a resolution to" when my reference to "judge not", from scripture, was in a very different context. I used the term "judge" in terms of judging one's righteousness by deeds of the law (which is the definition most commonly discussed under topics such as these.

Forums are challenging places to communicate one's message. Misunderstandings easily occur when terms are used differently.

From what I gather, the term "judge" as defined by you and as you say most in use brings the law automatically along with it. Resolution would be more in line with for instance how the Apostles dealt with circumcision.

I agree that there is a great challenge communicating one’s message, especially when terminology has scripture as the reference, so that not only language, but time period nuances come into play as well. Including the most important part that it is to discern spiritually, and I’m surprised we are able to move forward even on what would appear at times to be the simplest of subjects. Not that this is one!

Perhaps you can explain in more simple, direct terms what you are trying to say. I have been wondering what you have been trying to lead in to, and as you rightly said, I suspected that you were trying to tie the law and salvation together.

My experience on forums has often been with legalists who use the label "Love" as a facade to try to lead others into works of the law for righteousness. Sadly the label "Love" is often wrongly used to try to sway others over issues. I've even heard the label "Love" used to support pedophilia and homosexuality.

Remember, as I said before, forums are challenging places to get our message across clearly. All the more reason to keep it simple and direct with scripture to support it.

Thanks for your patience.

I knew it would be difficult to explain as I mentioned in the long posting. How does one communicate "Love" that is God? Even the Scripture in all its wonder cannot contain all of Him. The moment we attempt to, we start constructing boundaries which restrict understanding instead of freeing us to comprehend an everlasting state of His light.

Scripture is the Key, His Love through Christ Jesus, our gain, our hearts the dwelling place.

When blinders (to see clearer not really binders) were taken off, (I have you and @brakelite to thank in part for this, to God be the Glory & Praise) and the revelation that there is so much more to this discussion between brothers, then when first started on accountability or the lack thereof, on saved or not saved; or Unbeliever to believer. The genuine affection that must exist, between those that have God in their Hearts (believers) should never be laid aside, regardless of the heat of the debate. For if the Love that resides in our hearts has difficulty expressing itself to brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus during the most trying of times, how much more problematic when we must communicate to one who is lost?

Agreed. Morality can build a wall even between those who call themselves Children of God. We become so concerned with it that the very thing that we should be communicating which is love becomes non-existent. We are of the belief that communicating the “right or wrong” of something is sufficient for change. We are not the authors of change. Until we realize, that we are passengers in the vehicle for His will to be done, accomplishing anything of eternal value will be greatly diminished, if not eventually repudiated if Love is lacking.

Love, is not used for the purposes of binding one to believe, we believe so we love. Prior to belief we had no understanding of what love could mean. We just played around with the concepts that might or might not be true, relative to society, upbringing, or interpretation of (fill in the blank). True understanding was beyond us. We had no foundation from which to work from. Belief in Christ Jesus changed all that. Our foundation became set with God in our Hearts. We could now begin to grow in His Love, gain an unblemished start to understanding, and at the same time share that love with others.

Sorry brother. I tire. This past week the body has been weak. Though even in that state, receive your words with great joy.
YBIC
Nick

 

[Barny]

From what I gather, the term "judge" as defined by you and as you say most in use brings the law automatically along with it. Resolution would be more in line with for instance how the Apostles dealt with circumcision.

The law is described in scripture in various ways such as circumcision, sacrifices, commandments, tablets of stone. The law is also how righteousness is measured/determined. In other words "judged".

I agree that there is a great challenge communicating one’s message, especially when terminology has scripture as the reference, so that not only language, but time period nuances come into play as well.

There is also one's personal style of communicating that has an impact. We each have our own personal style. Some can be easier to understand than others. For example I have debated with the likes of brakelite, B-A-C, etc, and found it relatively easy to grasp the points they make. They kept their posts simple and direct, with scripture references for support.

Unfortunately I find your style to be somewhat more difficult to follow. I hope you won't be offended in my sharing this. I have come across similar before. Whatever the reasons for such styles of communication, it makes getting your message across more difficult, in my view.

I knew it would be difficult to explain as I mentioned in the long posting. How does one communicate "Love" that is God? Even the Scripture in all its wonder cannot contain all of Him. The moment we attempt to, we start constructing boundaries which restrict understanding instead of freeing us to comprehend an everlasting state of His light.

Scripture is the Key, His Love through Christ Jesus, our gain, our hearts the dwelling place.

It's the annointing within us (Christ) that gives us the understanding (1John 2:27). We may share with scripture but none will understand unless the annointing within them gives them the understanding.

Agreed. Morality can build a wall even between those who call themselves Children of God. We become so concerned with it that the very thing that we should be communicating which is love becomes non-existent. We are of the belief that communicating the “right or wrong” of something is sufficient for change. We are not the authors of change. Until we realize, that we are passengers in the vehicle for His will to be done, accomplishing anything of eternal value will be greatly diminished, if not eventually repudiated if Love is lacking.

I think most here would correctly believe that it's only God who can make the changes in us. We ourselves are not capable.

 

[Christ4Ever]

@Barny

The law is described in scripture in various ways such as circumcision, sacrifices, commandments, tablets of stone. The law is also how righteousness is measured/determined. In other words "judged".

Valid if one was talking of the law to provide substance to righteousness. I was using it in what would be Strongs G2919 or the Greek krinō used in part to resolve.
So you acknowledge that righteousness is imputed to us through Christ Jesus if I'm not mistaken in a previous post between you and another, which is the reason a believer cannot sin. So would not resolution which is possible prior to any judgment be of greater benefit to the loving believer in our current state? If you believe that this is just another roundabout way of tying a person to sin, you would be incorrect. You used the perfect example in the prior post of the adulteress woman brought before Jesus. He had compassion, which is the love He has for her, us, and this while still sinners! Did he not resolve the issue without judgment? When one first looks to acknowledge an individuals' current state of righteousness we begin the process of judging them and eventually wind up in some cases with holding the love that we ourselves were given and continue to receive unconditionally. When one reveals love to another no distinction is made on their sin life. Love does not require this as a condition in order to be rendered or to be received.

This is not to take away from the definition/significance of the use of “judge” within scripture, yet if as you say scripture is to be discerned spiritually......

There is also one's personal style of communicating that has an impact. We each have our own personal style. Some can be easier to understand than others. For example I have debated with the likes of brakelite, B-A-C, etc, and found it relatively easy to grasp the points they make. They kept their posts simple and direct, with scripture references for support.

Unfortunately I find your style to be somewhat more difficult to follow. I hope you won't be offended in my sharing this. I have come across similar before. Whatever the reasons for such styles of communication, it makes getting your message across more difficult, in my view.

LOL You would not be the first to ever state "huh" at something I've written. Even I have wondered when going back and reading something that I've put to paper, am bewildered on how those particular words phrased in that manner ever found its way onto the white. I've attempted to write "groaning" but it fails miserable, except to the Spirit within me, and the deepest recesses of my own.

I understand that the styles you are comfortable with provides a logical progression. Where my communication is fraught with emotions, passion which is normally caustic to logic.
It's like when Paul writes in Ephesians 3:17-19 , I can feel the wonder, amazement in communicating these words. The question I would ask you (which I'll provide my perspective of ) is, in v18 what is foundation for understanding what "may be able to comprehend", what is to be comprehended that would require measurements? Could it be that we must be rooted in His love before, we can begin to comprehend the full capacity of God's Love?

It's the annointing within us (Christ) that gives us the understanding (1 John 2:27. We may share with scripture but none will understand unless the annointing within them gives them the understanding.

That is the very reason I do not discuss scripture with an unbeliever. Yet in going forth with the Gospel of Jesus Christ we know that His Word will not return empty. (Isaiah 55:11)
It does not preclude one believer however with a, how did you put it "one's personal style of communicating" from not being understood completely at this moment.

Quote Originally Posted by Christ4Ever View Post
Agreed. Morality can build a wall even between those who call themselves Children of God. We become so concerned with it that the very thing that we should be communicating which is love becomes non-existent. We are of the belief that communicating the “right or wrong” of something is sufficient for change. We are not the authors of change. Until we realize, that we are passengers in the vehicle for His will to be done, accomplishing anything of eternal value will be greatly diminished, if not eventually repudiated if Love is lacking.

I think most here would correctly believe that it's only God who can make the changes in us. We ourselves are not capable.

I see where you have the difficulty of understanding what I write at times. In your reply I gather that you focused on the effect (growth) that I ended with and not the cause (no love) of the issue which is what I opened the paragraph with which is the greater import, because that is normally where the breakdown in communication occurs when dealing with the subject of morality. The effect/growth in the latter part of the paragraph was for the purposes of showing what can be a hindrance to applying love in that initial stage. Another way of putting it might be by saying an individual "goes in with preconceived notions".

I'm not fully recuperated, and it seems my wife has picked up whatever was ailing me as well. For another day my brother.
With Love
<><

 

[brakelite]

Considering the context you present this scripture, I can see that you use it to claim the following points.

1: Anyone who does not obey the law perfectly has not seen Christ nor know him.
2: Anyone who does obey the law perfectly is righteous.
3: Anyone who does not obey the law perfectly is of the devil.
4: Anyone who does not obey the law perfectly is not of God.

What you allege above through the way you understand 1 John 3:4-10, ould then present a very bad outcome for all Adventists, as they all fail to obey the law perfectly.

With conclusions as you have drawn above, it is little wonder that we are at odds with one another, for every single point you make I disagree with.
Let me attempt to make myself abundantly clear.

• No-one has ever obeyed perfectly the laws of God.
• No-one can match the holiness and perfect righteousness of a holy God.
• The law however does indeed demand perfect righteousness.
• And the law also demands the death of the transgressor.
• Which all lead to the inevitable conclusion that we need Jesus. And that is the whole purpose of the gospel.
• And lastly, and the point I would like for you to understand Barney, is that anyone, be it the Adventist who desires and is willing to obey the law, or the Christian such as yourself who believes the law is set aside, all still need Jesus, and always will.

You see Barney, however much I may keep the law...however many wonderful works I may do in Jesus name...whatever grand miraculous works I may perform...however well I progress in my Christian walk...however committed and consecrated I am to the faith... even if all these great things have been accomplished 100% in living faith and trust in God's power to accomplish them...and none were accomplished in my own strength but in God's power...even then, after all is said and done..
I will still need Jesus as my High Priest, Advocate, Intercessor, standing in my place before the Father in His perfect righteousness that I might be saved through Him.

It isn't a matter of ability when it comes to the judgement. It's a matter of whether we are willing. If we are willing, God will perform His works in us. All we need to is as you say Barney, believe. Have faith. If Christ is in us, the hope of glory, and His word is dwelling in us with all wisdom and power, then we cannot help but be human vehicles for His love. Because love is His nature, and His nature becomes ours, then it is inevitable that the laws of God are fulfilled in the life. That is why Paul could say "love is the fulfillment of the law". And fulfillment doesn't mean abolish or replace or set aside, no, no. When Jesus asked John to baptize Him Jesus said that it must be done to "fulfill all righteousness". Did Jesus mean that righteousness was then set aside, or that baptism replaced it? Of course not, but rather the act of baptism fully honored and filled the righteousness required. So to with love. It doesn't replace the law, but honors, fulfills, upholds, respects, is defined by, and establishes the law.

The greatest battle in the universe Barney is over our minds. Two foes are battling over control of the universe and we are smack in the middle. What we are to decide is who to trust? On one side is God. He says "I know what is good for you. Surrender your life to me and I will make of it what I will, and I will accept what I create in you, because of the sacrifice of My Son".

On the other side is Satan, who is busily deceiving us into thinking this and that is best and good for us. But you know Barney, ultimately the battle isn't really about us, it is about God. Satan's rebellion is one against God, not against us. Satan just wants us on his side. It is the government of God that is under threat. It is the character and nature of God that has been brought into question by Satan's arguments and lies. And in the end, after the judgement which will clear all who trusted in Christ and condemn all who didn't, God's character, God's nature, and all of God's purposes throughout all the ages of earths rebellion, will be vindicated, and all the universe will agree and celebrate that God is indeed a God of love. And never again will anyone argue the point, or suggest they have a better way. Sin and sinners are no more, conflict will not arise a second time.

 

[brakelite]

@Christ4Ever.
Hi Nick. Thankyou for your contribution to our discussion. For me, the most enduring and incisive point I think you have made (although others came close lol) was regarding the sometimes cold, logical, impersonal way that this medium of communication can be in sharing thoughts and ideas. In our earnestness and zeal in attempting to make ourselves clear or to "prove our arguments" we can so easily tend to forget Who we are being made in the image of, and the nature of that One Who we are purporting to represent. I do believe I may have said this before regarding your own postings, that unlike mine, they do indeed tend to reflect the love of God that is in your heart for us all. I would do well in reconsidering the phraseology and terms I use that the love I have for you may be better conveyed. My apologies to all (particularly to my two cuzzies from over the ditch @DHC and @Barney )who have not sensed this from me in previous posts.

 

[Barny]

LOL You would not be the first to ever state "huh" at something I've written. Even I have wondered when going back and reading something that I've put to paper, am bewildered on how those particular words phrased in that manner ever found its way onto the white. I've attempted to write "groaning" but it fails miserable, except to the Spirit within me, and the deepest recesses of my own.

I understand that the styles you are comfortable with provides a logical progression. Where my communication is fraught with emotions, passion which is normally caustic to logic.

Unfortunately I have limited time on forums, especially at the moment due to work priorities. Hence any posts that take many readings before one can come near to perhaps comprehending what the blogger is trying to say, is less likely to be engaged in discussion. I hope you are not offended by my frankness here.

As I said before, I've encountered many legalists who proclaim "love", but I've found that it's merely a facade meant to lure others back under the law for righteousness. Pedophiles and homosexuals also proclaim "love" to support their lifestyle.

Any Christian who loves God will not be fornicating with Hagar, who is symbolic of righteousness by works of the law, Gal 4:24. We are to "abstain from" and "flee" from fornication with Hagar (1Cor 6:18; 1Thess 4:3).

Note the love shown by true Christians in Matt 25:36-46
Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

Many will focus on this only in physical terms.

But scripture is spiritually discerned, 1 Cor 2:14

Consider how God describes terms as found in Matt 25.

What is the spiritual food/drink that mankind is in need of?
1 Cor 10:3, 4
And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Who are those in spiritual prison but those who are without Christ.
Isa 61:1
The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

And what is the state of mankind without Christ?
It's sick, and needing to hear the gospel of Christ.
Isa 1:5, 6
Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint.From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment.

How are the spiritually naked clothed?
Isa 61:10
I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, My soul shall be joyful in my God; For He has clothed me with the garments of salvation, He has covered me with the robe of righteousness,

And those without Christ are strangers who need to hear the gospel to be taken into God's kingdom.
Eph 2:12
that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

When we share the gospel of Christ we offer to take in the lost so that they may no longer be strangers.
Eph 2:19
Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,

So we see scripture speaking in spiritual terms regarding preaching the gospel of grace. And doing the works of believing in Jesus (John 6:29) Christians also let their light shine preaching the gospel of Christ to spiritually feed, clothe, heal and set free, the lost.

Matt 5:14-16
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.

Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

The discussions often seen on forums is one between righteousness by faith v's righteousness proved by deeds of the law.

Scripture makes it clear that we are to believe on Jesus, just as that thief on the cross did.
In believing on Jesus our faith is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5.

But for legalists one is not righteous unless they perfectly obey the law. This is contrary to the gospel.

Those who love others, showing compassion, are preaching the gospel to spiritually feed the hungry, clothe the spiritually naked, take in those who are strangers from the covenants of promise, visit the spiritually sick and those in spiritual prison.

Legalists however preach the law of sin and death (with a facade of love) declaring that without perfect obedience to the law one is unrighteous. For legalists, the gospel message to believe on Jesus is merely "easy believism". Hence they focus their message on deeds of the law as proof one is righteous. In other words they are pushing the ministry of condemnation/death, 2Cor 3:7.

 

[Barny]

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It isn't a matter of ability when it comes to the judgement. It's a matter of whether we are willing. If we are willing, God will perform His works in us. All we need to is as you say Barney, believe. Have faith. If Christ is in us, the hope of glory, and His word is dwelling in us with all wisdom and power, then we cannot help but be human vehicles for His love. Because love is His nature, and His nature becomes ours, then it is inevitable that the laws of God are fulfilled in the life. That is why Paul could say "love is the fulfillment of the law". And fulfillment doesn't mean abolish or replace or set aside, no, no. When Jesus asked John to baptize Him Jesus said that it must be done to "fulfill all righteousness". Did Jesus mean that righteousness was then set aside, or that baptism replaced it? Of course not, but rather the act of baptism fully honored and filled the righteousness required. So to with love. It doesn't replace the law, but honors, fulfills, upholds, respects, is defined by, and establishes the law.

I agree that what you say here is consistent with what you have said before.
Note these 2 points you said in your posts.
" it is inevitable that the laws of God are fulfilled in the life"
" honors, fulfills, upholds, respects, is defined by, and establishes the law."

Clearly the doctrine you follow sees that nobody is righteous unless they perfectly obey the law.

The greatest battle in the universe Barney is over our minds. Two foes are battling over control of the universe and we are smack in the middle. What we are to decide is who to trust? On one side is God. He says "I know what is good for you. Surrender your life to me and I will make of it what I will, and I will accept what I create in you, because of the sacrifice of My Son".

On the other side is Satan, who is busily deceiving us into thinking this and that is best and good for us.

Let's remember that the sin the world is convicted of is unbelief in Jesus, John 16:9.

Thus we see in scripture that we are fighting the good fight of faith. We are in a battle for our minds.

1Tim 6:12-14
Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession (confess Jesus, Rom 10:9 in the presence of many witnesses. I urge you in the sight of God who gives life to all things, and before Christ Jesus who witnessed the good confession before Pontius Pilate, that you keep this commandment (to believe on Jesus) without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ’s appearing,

And note Paul's statement about winning his good fight.
2Tim 4:7,8
I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing.

If a believer is fighting the good fight of faith, obeying the commandment to believe on Jesus (without spot and blameless), then is the law part of this good fight of faith?

It wasn't for that thief on the cross. And that is the same gospel that is offered to all mankind.

And note Gal 3:12.
Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.

Also Gal 2:16
knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

This is the gospel message.
John 3:16
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Fight the good fight of faith, keeping the commandment to believe on Jesus, without spot and blameless.