Is this your opinion of our general consensus or is it your rebuttal to the scripture Gal. 3:19 that was posted?
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What does Jesus mean when he says
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Is this your opinion of our general consensus or is it your rebuttal to the scripture Gal. 3:19 that was posted?
Hello puddleglum.
The Gospel states that we are saved by our belief in Jesus
Christ, His death and resurrection. This is not the opinion
of the people on this site, this Gospel is what the scripture
announces.
Romans 10:9
That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in
your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
This is the primary doctrine of the New Testament puddleglum.
More so, the entire New Testament is the testimony of the
Gospel of Jesus Christ. God has reconciled us through the
sacrifice of His Son, it is a gift, Grace.
Salvation is not granted to us on the basis of our performance,
salvation is given to us freely. There are no strings attached to
the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Here read it again;
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son,
that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
A goat is someone who does not believe the Gospel!
Puddleglum
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It's about being in the Holy Spirit but what people like you are referring to about as having Jesus has done deal, it's all been done for us, it's a done deal, so just sit back and be a ignorant fool and all is just fine. as people like this believe the all people are totally utterly corrupt and there is nothing you can do about it. so that to me is just a said joke because, one like that is just a rotten tree and is doing the work of the Devil. i believe and i have seen it first hand with a good mate of mine who became a low life so called christian creep, i would say to him to get his act together and follow in Christ but he would just smile and say he is saved, so it does not matter what he does at all. he sold drugs to kids without a care as well. so i said, so Hitler was saved to, he said yes. so the Devil must be saved to, because he believes in Jesus as well. and of course Satan would love the it's a done deal joke, but you know that Jesus said their were people who say Lord Lord, but he says he never knew them ??? so there you go, you must obey the Lord Jesus. and walk with him because you are in him..
I say that the serpent is very cunning and will lead one astray.
Now if i try to walk with Jesus, you oppose me and ridicule me for it. i don't say i can follow the law 100%, but i respect it (you surely don't ) and i know it's not what salvation is about and never said it was..
So if i follow your direction i may as well just run around and try to get wealthy as i can, as how i do it does not matter and cheat on my wife and don't give a toss about my family, become a glutton, a murderer etc and all is just fine. and i can run around telling everyone i am going to heaven, it's a done deal !
Fact is there is only one who says if you go the Heaven and that's a fact and we our self's can't boast such.
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Hi everyone. Jiggyfly you cannot go by other watered down translation of the Bible thats someones opinion. I mean that is honest. I dont mean that in a mean way but that is a translation of a translation. But anyway, till all is fulfilled. That just means he kept all the Commandments or not sin, which nobody ever did, He fulfilled it. John 15. So throw The book of Revelation 12:17, 14:12, 20:12. And the whole book of James and the book of 1John and Pauls writtings when he himself stated the Law is holy, just and good. You guys keep mixing Moses Law with The Ten Commandments. BIG HUGE DIFFERENCE!.
David 777 so throw that verse in Hebrews out the window then. Thats what your saying. What abouyt Heb.8:10. Where is the Law written now, at least in my mind. Not out the window as some of u claim.
You cant pick and choose what you guys want to believe. BIBLE CANNOT CONTRADICT ITSELF? NEVER! SO CONTINUE STUDYING TO SHOW YOIRSELF APPROVED, RIGHTLY DIVIDING THE WORD OF GOD. 2Tim2:15
David 777 so throw that verse in Hebrews out the window then. Thats what your saying. What abouyt Heb.8:10. Where is the Law written now, at least in my mind. Not out the window as some of u claim.
You cant pick and choose what you guys want to believe. BIBLE CANNOT CONTRADICT ITSELF? NEVER! SO CONTINUE STUDYING TO SHOW YOIRSELF APPROVED, RIGHTLY DIVIDING THE WORD OF GOD. 2Tim2:15
So read Gal 3:19 in any translation you want and tell me that the law is still in effect. I would love to have a discussion with you about this but you fail to keep things in their proper context. Your shouting is evidence of your immaturity and that you should practice your own advice and go study and come back when you can discuss without any immature behavior.
I'm sorry but I am failing to see any address to Gal.3:19 in your post. Can you try again and post out the scriptures you use in your explanation of Gal 3:19. thanks.
Hello bgsda.
Did God engrave the ten commandments on two stone tablets?
Exodus 34
34 Now the Lord said to Moses,
“Cut out for yourself two stone tablets like the former ones,
and I will write on the tablets the words that were on the
former tablets which you shattered."
Yes He did engrave the ten commandments on two stone tablets.
Now Paul's reference in 2 Corinthians 3 to "letters engraved in stone"
is Paul directly referring to the ten commandments?
2 Corinthians 3
7 But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory,
so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because
of the glory of his face, fading as it was,
If the "letters engraved on stones" which Paul cites are not
the ten words, then bgsda what is Paul referring to?
Once again David your twisting Pauls writtings as said in 2Pet 3:15-17. Ill keep it in the same chpt to show u that u are twisting it. Read verse 17. He says Liberty right, thats where the Spirit is right. Ok lets see what James calls th perfect Law of Liberty. You tell me what does James call the perfect Law of liberty in James chpt 1,2.
Hello bgsda.
Drop the accusations and lets study the scriptures bgsda!
Verse 17, of 2 Corinthians 3 does mention liberty.
I will now quote the extra verses from 2 Corinthians 3
for the sake of context in order to observe the usage
of "liberty" in the context of the chapter.
2 Corinthians 3
14 But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the
reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because
it is removed in Christ.
15 But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart;
16 but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.
17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
Now we have a much more accurate understanding of "liberty".
Liberty from the old covenant bgsda no other interpretation
is possible. Stay within the letter quoted and understand
what the author is stating the intent of the usage of "liberty" is bgsda.
As you and I both know full well the ten commandments are
contained within the old covenant established at Mt Sinai. I
will prove this if you wish bgsda.
Therefore with the aid of context, "letters engraved in stone"
means precisely the ten commandments.
Liberty from the law of Moses, the old covenant, the ten
commandments, etc.
Context is extremely important when one reads the scripture.
Drop the accusations and lets study the scriptures bgsda!
Verse 17, of 2 Corinthians 3 does mention liberty.
I will now quote the extra verses from 2 Corinthians 3
for the sake of context in order to observe the usage
of "liberty" in the context of the chapter.
2 Corinthians 3
14 But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the
reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because
it is removed in Christ.
15 But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart;
16 but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.
17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
Now we have a much more accurate understanding of "liberty".
Liberty from the old covenant bgsda no other interpretation
is possible. Stay within the letter quoted and understand
what the author is stating the intent of the usage of "liberty" is bgsda.
As you and I both know full well the ten commandments are
contained within the old covenant established at Mt Sinai. I
will prove this if you wish bgsda.
Therefore with the aid of context, "letters engraved in stone"
means precisely the ten commandments.
Liberty from the law of Moses, the old covenant, the ten
commandments, etc.
Context is extremely important when one reads the scripture.
Puddleglum
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Why did Moses come for in the first place, why not just Jesus then. if that's the way you see it.
I think what some are trying to do is reject Abraham Isaac and Israel the true line, for a forgery such as the Golden Calf line.
I hear all this talk about the state of Israel nowdays as some becon of light, fact is they are not of Israel at all but just the Golden Calf type idol worshipers, totaly lost to the true roots of the real Spirit of Israel.
I think some so called christians make Jesus out to be some form of Idol, that they see from a distance and they will not come to him and certainly don't want to be with him, doing his will or tending the Garden as a servant, abiding in the vine helping in bringing forth his good fruit.
The people doing Gods will, will be at his right hand, the others at the left and the non christians are not their at all.
I think what some are trying to do is reject Abraham Isaac and Israel the true line, for a forgery such as the Golden Calf line.
I hear all this talk about the state of Israel nowdays as some becon of light, fact is they are not of Israel at all but just the Golden Calf type idol worshipers, totaly lost to the true roots of the real Spirit of Israel.
I think some so called christians make Jesus out to be some form of Idol, that they see from a distance and they will not come to him and certainly don't want to be with him, doing his will or tending the Garden as a servant, abiding in the vine helping in bringing forth his good fruit.
The people doing Gods will, will be at his right hand, the others at the left and the non christians are not their at all.
brakelite
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Hi Jiggy. You toss words about such as 'covenant' and 'law' and 'Ten Commandments', but you appear to use them as if they are synonyms, and all 'done away' with at the cross reagrdless of their nature and purpose. I put it to you that those expressions are by no means synonomous, but are very different in nature, and in purpose,and thus cannot be lumped together to be conveniently set aside as if they are of no further consequence. I believe a more discerning study of this topic will pay dividends.
Would you care to enter the discussion on Gal. 3:19?
Still no address of Gal. 3:19?
brakelite
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Galatians 3:19 ¶ Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Please Jiggy, tell me. What law do you think Paul is discussing here? Is it the law he refers to when he said:
Ro 7:12 Wherefore the law is (note: present tense) holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Or perhaps it was the law he speaks of here:
Ro 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Then of course there is this:
Ro 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Written after the cross, Paul is saying that the doers of the law are justified?!!! Then he says this:
Ro 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Lets face it. There seems to be a great deal of contradiction with regards the "law". I do believe that we must discern what law Paul is speaking of when he appears to discard one and upholds another.
It is commonly believed, (far too commonly to my mind) that the Ten Commandments are what Galatians 3 refers to, that they applied to Israel up to the time of Christ's death, then done away with. This kind of thinking assumes that Israel were justified by their obedience to the law, the erroneous dispensational paradigm that says Israel had the law, we have grace. Paul himself squashed that knind of thinking in Romans 3, when he said: do we make void the law through faith? Nay, we establish the law. He then wenmt on in Rom. 4 to describe how Abraham was saved, that is by faith. Not by his obedience to the law, even though his obedience was required of him.
Ge 18:19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.
Ge 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
Yet despite Abrahams obedience, Paul clearly states he was saved by faith, not his obedience.
Now today, we have the strange situation where people such as BGSDA and puddleglum and others claim that the laws of God are still sacrosanct, that they are still binding, that transgression of them is still sin: they do not claim that obedience to those laws brings justification, yet they meet great opposition from such as yourself and the majority of members here, as if the laws of God are devilish and a great burden.
So if a believer in Christ should lie on his tax return and claim $2000 more in compensation than he ought, this is no longer a transgression against the 9th commandment,, nor is it any longer a transgression against the 8th. As brighthouse claimed in an earlier post, there is no more law, thus there can be no more transgression against it.
Now Jiggy, I ask again. When you say such as this: So read Gal 3:19 in any translation you want and tell me that the law is still in effect.
please tell us...what law????
Hello brakelite.
I noticed your quote from Romans 7:12.
We will add some context to your quote
by adding preceding verses, in order to
clarify the intent of the author in Romans 7.
Romans 7
4 Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law
through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another,
to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear
fruit for God.
5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused
by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death.
6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which
we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness
of the letter.
Now we see the purpose of the law do we not.
The law is good and wholesome but it does
arouse sin in the flesh and produces death.
You have been released from the law and now
you may serve Christ in the spirit, not the flesh.
Not by obedience to the letter but by obedience
to the Holy Spirit, your flesh has been crucified
with Christ.
Still the law is holy and good in the correct context.
I noticed your quote from Romans 7:12.
We will add some context to your quote
by adding preceding verses, in order to
clarify the intent of the author in Romans 7.
Romans 7
4 Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law
through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another,
to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear
fruit for God.
5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused
by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death.
6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which
we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness
of the letter.
Now we see the purpose of the law do we not.
The law is good and wholesome but it does
arouse sin in the flesh and produces death.
You have been released from the law and now
you may serve Christ in the spirit, not the flesh.
Not by obedience to the letter but by obedience
to the Holy Spirit, your flesh has been crucified
with Christ.
Still the law is holy and good in the correct context.
The law of the old covenant between God and the Hebrews given through Moses otherwise known as the law of Moses, which by the way includes the ten commandments.
Many have have tried to say that there were many different laws and that Paul was referring to one set here and another there, but I find no such evidence.
As David posted earlier,look at what Paul says in 2 Cor. 3:7-18
7 The old way, with laws etched in stone, led to death, though it began with such glory that the people of Israel could not bear to look at Moses’ face. For his face shone with the glory of God, even though the brightness was already fading away.8 Shouldn’t we expect far greater glory under the new way, now that the Holy Spirit is giving life?9 If the old way, which brings condemnation, was glorious, how much more glorious is the new way, which makes us right with God!10 In fact, that first glory was not glorious at all compared with the overwhelming glory of the new way.11 So if the old way, which has been replaced, was glorious, how much more glorious is the new, which remains forever!
12 Since this new way gives us such confidence, we can be very bold.13 We are not like Moses, who put a veil over his face so the people of Israel would not see the glory, even though it was destined to fade away.14 But the people’s minds were hardened, and to this day whenever the old covenant is being read, the same veil covers their minds so they cannot understand the truth. And this veil can be removed only by believing in Christ.15 Yes, even today when they read Moses’ writings, their hearts are covered with that veil, and they do not understand.
16 But whenever someone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.17 For the Lord is the Spirit, and wherever the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.18 So all of us who have had that veil removed can see and reflect the glory of the Lord. And the Lord—who is the Spirit—makes us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image.
2 Cor 3:7-18 (NLT)
BL you said the law does not justify so what is it's purpose?
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brakelite
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Nowhere in the above passage does it suggest that the law is taken away. In verse 7 it says the glory was to be taken away (due to tha fact that the types and symbols of the OT are met with the reality of Christ) and in verse 14 the scripture says that the veil is to be taken away. The law remains.
For what purpose? Twofold. One, to reveal to man the righteousness of God and thus the standard to which we ought to aim for. Two, to point out man's need of a Saviour by exposing man's inherent sinfulness ...man therefore cannot attain to Christ's righteousness without Christ in the life. ("Without Me ye can do nothing"...'but with Christ all things are possible'.)
brakelite
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David, the law aouses sin only in those who are in disobedience to it. The law cannot and will not condemn those who are not sinning.
Hi David.The old man is dead to the law, yes. Crucified in Christ, the carnal nature, the fleshly nature that dominated and ruled the life prior to being born again is now dead, and thus we are free from condemnation. The law has no claim upon those who now walk in the Spirit, and not in the flesh. Why? Because those who are walking in the Spirit are now by nature obeying God's commandments. It becomes a natural progression...it is called sanctification. So while the old nature is dead, the new man walks in righteousness.
You sought to give context by quoting a greater portion of scripture in addition to Romans 7:12, allow me to add even more.
Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Now if we obey the scriptures and yield or submit ourselves to God's Spirit that we may live righteous and holy lives, (see vss 18-22 above) surely we would be walking in accordance to God's commandments? Would not His laws be the benchmark we may judge ourselves by? And would not this be a lawful and correct way of using the law? Not to condemn, but as a goal for righteous living? And the means to that end is through love, which Jesus on many occasions clearly stated was the embodiment of the law. (By law I mean the Ten Commandments).
You need to reread the passage. The "old way" which included the ten commandments was replaced by the "new way" in which the HolySpirit gives life.
Christ also said that the HolySpirit would convict the world of it's sins. The old way was the way of death but the new way is the way of life. Law = death, Spirit = life. It's really not hard if one will let go of the religious paradigms taught by man.
What justifies us with God? Is it our religious works, keeping the law? Or is it believing and trusting in Christ work at the cross?
19 For God in all his fullness
was pleased to live in Christ,
20 and through him God reconciled
everything to himself.
He made peace with everything in heaven and on earth
by means of Christ’s blood on the cross.
21 This includes you who were once far away from God. You were his enemies, separated from him by your evil thoughts and actions.22 Yet now he has reconciled you to himself through the death of Christ in his physical body. As a result, he has brought you into his own presence, and you are holy and blameless as you stand before him without a single fault.
23 But you must continue to believe this truth and stand firmly in it. Don’t drift away from the assurance you received when you heard the Good News. The Good News has been preached all over the world, and I, Paul, have been appointed as God’s servant to proclaim it.
Col 1:19-23 (NLT)
Can I ask David and Jiigy something, why is it that on a topic any topic, you guys seem to only put Pauls writtings. No O.T, no other writers. Its hard to talk or reason with you guys. Are you or did u guys read the verse in 2Pet 3:15-17, about how Peter himself hardly understood Paul writtings. Yet thats all you quote. Try to look in other places.
Once again as brakelite put up also, theres about over 100 verses in the Biblebfrom Gen to Rev that the Ten Commandments has never and can never be done away with, yet you guys have about 10 (if that) twisted verses that you were taught to believe. Thats the truth, Im sorry.
Jiggyfly for Gal3:19 No this passage refer to the law that was "added" or Moses Law, which was a ceremonial law governing the sacraficialsystem and the priesthood. All of this ceremony and ritual FORESHADOWED the cross and ended at Christs death, as God had intented. Moses Law was added till the "Seed should come", and that "Seed ...is Christ"Gal3:19,16). Gods Law could not be involved here, for Paul spoke of it as holy, just, and good many years after the cross. ROM7:7,12
Once again as brakelite put up also, theres about over 100 verses in the Biblebfrom Gen to Rev that the Ten Commandments has never and can never be done away with, yet you guys have about 10 (if that) twisted verses that you were taught to believe. Thats the truth, Im sorry.
Jiggyfly for Gal3:19 No this passage refer to the law that was "added" or Moses Law, which was a ceremonial law governing the sacraficialsystem and the priesthood. All of this ceremony and ritual FORESHADOWED the cross and ended at Christs death, as God had intented. Moses Law was added till the "Seed should come", and that "Seed ...is Christ"Gal3:19,16). Gods Law could not be involved here, for Paul spoke of it as holy, just, and good many years after the cross. ROM7:7,12
