What died in the garden?

[Grace]

I started out studing what man lost in the garden and with that one question I came up with ten more...

If man was created in the image of God does this mean his nature? If so His nature is spirit, right?

A spirit never dies! Angels, human, demons..etc.

So was Adam an Eve created to live forever..Body, Soul and Spirit?

What actually died?:helppc:

I have many more questions about this....But I did not want to throw them all out there. If anyone can shed some light on this I will be so:handshake: thankful!!

 

[Brother Mike]

God is a Spirit

God is a Spirit, We worship God in Spirit.

Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

We where created in the Image of God, we would have to be spirits, inside a body. Our soul, being our mind, will, and emotion. (Connected to the brain)

Soul can also mean whole person, or living soul. The concept confuses some who want to believe other things besides what is in the Word.

Angels, devils, do not die. The Human spirit also is translated as the same Greek Word Pneuma


The bible does not say anything Died, except the relationship between God and Man became broken.

Adam gained the Knowledge of calamity, or knowledge of bad things happening. (English for tree of good and evil) So, the concept of death probably started to be a reality to Adam, though it took over 900 years for him to die.

God also gave the Earth to man, but by Adam's obedience to Satan, that authority transferred over to Satan, making him the god of this World. That certainly did not help matters.

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[Grace]

God is a Spirit, We worship God in Spirit.

Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

We where created in the Image of God, we would have to be spirits, inside a body. Our soul, being our mind, will, and emotion. (Connected to the brain)

Soul can also mean whole person, or living soul. The concept confuses some who want to believe other things besides what is in the Word.

Angels, devils, do not die. The Human spirit also is translated as the same Greek Word Pneuma


The bible does not say anything Died, except the relationship between God and Man became broken.

Adam gained the Knowledge of calamity, or knowledge of bad things happening. (English for tree of good and evil) So, the concept of death probably started to be a reality to Adam, though it took over 900 years for him to die.

God also gave the Earth to man, but by Adam's obedience to Satan, that authority transferred over to Satan, making him the god of this World. That certainly did not help matters.

Jesus Is Lord.

Ok..so nothing died.
A relationship was broken..but didn't God still talk to them after the fall?

 

[Brother Mike]

One man's sin, death Came.

Gen 3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.


Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Heb 2:15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

By Adams Transgression, His sin, death Reigned, or ruled. Death, and things dying where now on the planet. Satan we are told had that Power over death.

Satan became god of this world.

So, God still did Talk to Adam, but that relationship was forever fractured, because God was no longer God over this world, Satan was.

Psa 115:16 The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD'S: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.

So, everything really belongs to God, Made by God for God, but God gave man the earth. Man obeys the devil. The Devil gets control.

I don't know what Satan and God had arranged before Satan went crazy, I know God does keep his word, even to Satan. I know the devil has a limited time, and it's all legal.

Mar 5:7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.

Here is a interesting statement by a devil. Begging to God that Jesus not torment them.

Mark's Account:

Mat 8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

So, the devil in this case felt Jesus was doing something Illegal, before the time. So, somehow Satan got a hold of the earth lease.

Jesus is Lord.

 

[Grace]

Sin and death came through Adam because he disobeyed God.
Physical death=body separate from the soul/spirit (this came later)
spiritual death=soul/spirit separate from God...this is the one that I am trying to figure out. Because a spirit continues to live, it is some how disconnected from God...yet it is still aware and communicates with God???? Because God talked to Adam/Eve and also Cain...

 

[Brother Mike]

Yes. Spirit, Soul, Body.

Adam, Cain, Where flesh.

1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

Even Gideon left a Fleece. Something Natural to get direction from God. We would not do that today. We have the Spirit of God that speaks to our spirit.

"Lord, if 3 red cars drive by in a row, I know it's you."

That will get us in trouble.

So, God came down to the Garden to actually Talk with Adam, being a flesh man, Adam communicating with God much like you or I would with each other.


Our Soul......psuchē

Same word we get the English psychiatrist, or study of Mind.

Can be a whole person, breath.

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Is what connects to our flesh brain. Organ and tissue can't store or handle all we are able to, it can't form thoughts. This is where our soul comes in. It's how we think, who we are, personality, feelings, emotions.

It's not saved, but we can renew it, and get it in line with our born again spirit with the Word of God. The Word will separate our natural thinking from what our spirit knows. Our spirit is what communicates with God, or the Holy Spirit.

The Saving of our Soul is a process, and growth.

Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

Our minds can get in line with what our Born again spirit knows from the Holy Spirit. Not much time in God's Word, means less we know if God is speaking to us, or even recognize it.

1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Co 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Now compare these scriptures:

Pro 20:27 The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly.

Mar 4:21 And he said unto them, Is a candle brought to be put under a bushel, or under a bed? and not to be set on a candlestick?

God designed us to know things, we where not created to be in the Dark. Revelation of God comes to our spirit.

Mar 4:22 For there is nothing hid, which shall not be manifested; neither was any thing kept secret, but that it should come abroad.

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[Grace]

Ok...I think we are on the same page.
Another question..what is the difference in Adam's relationship with God (before the fall) and our relationship as children of God?

 

[Brother Mike]

Bless your heart.

Bless your Heart sister!!! I see nobody else has posted, and rightly so, these questions are pretty good.

Another question..what is the difference in Adam's relationship with God (before the fall) and our relationship as children of God?

Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

We where not there watching Adam and God interact with each other, We do have lots of scripture where we can believe God to also speak to us, even on a daily basis.

Us Sheep, know his voice, we are led by the spirit of God, we need no man teach us (But through the anointing on man) but the Holy Spirit directly teach us. We are shown things to come.

So, following the peace in your heart to make choices, your conscience telling you right way and wrong way, to even God speaking directly inside you, and hearing each word.

We are told what Jesus did, is much greater than the death Adam brought into this World, and we have a better Covenant with better promises than those in the OT.

We have a mediator that is between us and God, and Master Lawyer, that always gets us the verdict of Not guilty. We have authority over evil demonic forces.

So, not sure how Adam or God spent time together, according to scriptures, we can have it much better. Let's Walk by faith, and seek that.

Joh 15:15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.
Joh 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[Kit Carson]

Hey:

I know of no scripture in the bible that tells of anything that died in or out of the garden.

I use the bible as a complete book of knowledge. I seek truth of all things and it is my way to understand many things.

So you wonder what it was like, how God related to man and how they walked together?

God created man, Adam and Eve and all was good, perfect in the creation, and Adam and God named the animals and all things, there was no sin so both stood with God. God wished companions, and to me Gods heart longed to create and to wish for his reasons companionship in a form he created. So there was no sin, no fear, no crime, none of the things we see today. All were gentle and kind and if one fell the other picked the other up......

But God is in his way very fair and in his greatness gives all free will. And before man were angels also with free will. And a few of them had abused this, and wished to gain power and overcome God.

So sin entered the world, and the human race by its own way, got expelled from the perfect creation. By choice. By free will.

So in the way of what died.....I suppose you can say our perfect nature died, and in its place entered a sinful nature.

So our nature changed, it did not die in so many words....but our spirit became aware of knowledge and moral evil.......and so we are and were tempted just as we are today sometimes.

Kit

 

[Grace]

Hey:

I know of no scripture in the bible that tells of anything that died in or out of the garden.

I use the bible as a complete book of knowledge. I seek truth of all things and it is my way to understand many things.

So you wonder what it was like, how God related to man and how they walked together?

God created man, Adam and Eve and all was good, perfect in the creation, and Adam and God named the animals and all things, there was no sin so both stood with God. God wished companions, and to me Gods heart longed to create and to wish for his reasons companionship in a form he created. So there was no sin, no fear, no crime, none of the things we see today. All were gentle and kind and if one fell the other picked the other up......

But God is in his way very fair and in his greatness gives all free will. And before man were angels also with free will. And a few of them had abused this, and wished to gain power and overcome God.

So sin entered the world, and the human race by its own way, got expelled from the perfect creation. By choice. By free will.

So in the way of what died.....I suppose you can say our perfect nature died, and in its place entered a sinful nature.

So our nature changed, it did not die in so many words....but our spirit became aware of knowledge and moral evil.......and so we are and were tempted just as we are today sometimes.

Kit

They were created in the image of God..doesn't this mean -nature, copy characteristics and essence?
They were able to manifest Him on earth...bring heaven to earth!
What part did the Holy Spirit play in this? We can not have a relationship with God without the Holy Spirit, can we?
THey were spiritually alive (in union with God)at creation. If they became spiritually dead that means they lost there connection to God..was there connection through the Holy Spirit?

What I see they lost was:
There dominion and authority which transfered to satan.
Access to the tree of life...could this be why they died physically?
They lost there ability (relationship) to know spiritual things..or to know God.

 

[eddieb]

check out gen. 2:17. (God dont lie)

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely DIE.

here is a scripture, one where God is speaking, that clearly states adam "died". however he lived quite awhile after that specific day, in which God said you will surely die. The bible says the wages of sin is death. adam sinned by not obeying Gods command. his spirit "died". he became disconnected from God by "killing" the breath God breathed in the dirt to make adam a living soul. when we (adams seed) are born we are born dead in sin. Christ is the resurection and the life. in order for us to live again spiritually Christ (God is spirit) must enter our fleshly temples. the "life" is Gods spirit. people with out this spirit are literally "living dead"

 

[Grace]

check out gen. 2:17. (God dont lie)

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely DIE.

here is a scripture, one where God is speaking, that clearly states adam "died". however he lived quite awhile after that specific day, in which God said you will surely die. The bible says the wages of sin is death. adam sinned by not obeying Gods command. his spirit "died". he became disconnected from God by "killing" the breath God breathed in the dirt to make adam a living soul. when we (adams seed) are born we are born dead in sin. Christ is the resurection and the life. in order for us to live again spiritually Christ (God is spirit) must enter our fleshly temples. the "life" is Gods spirit. people with out this spirit are literally "living dead"

This is a little hard to follow..
I think all understand that one day we will physically die (spirit separate from the body). But that spirit will live for eternity...where it lives will depend on whether we believe the gospel of Jesus Christ.
So what spirit was breathed into Adam? Is the breath of God the Holy Spirit?

Where in scripture does it say that babies are born spiritually dead (spirit/soul seperate from God)?

 

[Kit Carson]

They were created in the image of God..doesn't this mean -nature, copy characteristics and essence?
They were able to manifest Him on earth...bring heaven to earth!
What part did the Holy Spirit play in this? We can not have a relationship with God without the Holy Spirit, can we?
THey were spiritually alive (in union with God)at creation. If they became spiritually dead that means they lost there connection to God..was there connection through the Holy Spirit?

What I see they lost was:
There dominion and authority which transfered to satan.
Access to the tree of life...could this be why they died physically?
They lost there ability (relationship) to know spiritual things..or to know God.

I can get into serious trouble with this kind of thing....I approach God with simple understanding, to me it is not complicated.

Trying hard to understand and explain in common words .

Yes we are created in Gods image. As I see it heaven does not exist on earth, this is a place Jesus makes for us. But it is not on earth.

There was no need for the Holy Spirit at that time, not saying their spirit was not pure, but they had direct contact and communication with God. There was no sin so they could walk and be with God with no fear ......No man after that could view the face of God and live as we lost our pure way and to just be in his presence , our sin would cause us to die.

Their dominion and ours over the earth and all animals is the same today as it was then as far as man does have dominion over earth. We do a pretty sad job in our use of that many times.....for sure.

When God said if you eat of the tree of knowledge you will surely die, means just what has happened, no one died that instant, but with the knowledge of all things and sin, then we all accepted the sentence of death. Adam and Eve were perfect in creation so they lived a long life but did die, as we all will . So the physical body dies, but the spirit does not and we still have through the gift of Jesus and the Holy Spirit a relationship with God.

Our dominion did not pass to Satan.......Satan is just an angel who is a liar and a deceiver who by devious means tempted Eve. Satan did not wish man to eat of the tree of life as he would have lost his wish to overcome God and destroy man....so with devious and sneaky means he caused the way of man to fall . Satan is an accuser, he temps and tries to get us to sin , then when we do, he accuses us.

The best I understand it. Is the story a parable, or literal? I think it does not matter as the intent is in the understanding and it does convey the simple fact that God created us perfect in the beginning and Satan had desire to destroy Gods creation.

I view the Holy Spirit as a part of the whole. As also always having been, and is the one who teaches us, comforts us.......and reveals to us understanding of things. But was given to us after the death of Jesus. When the law was put into our hearts. The physical laws never did work, but the laws of kindness, compassion, consideration, and the wish to help others......to honor God and understand God is the new law. The law of God, not the law of man.

So if Adam and Eve were perfect before deception and talked and related to God each day, God himself was the teacher , the companion and the Head of the household so to speak.

Is there a purpose to free will, and to fall and to learn and to go through trials........I think so......do not understand it all completely but I think there is a purpose to it all.

Meanwhile I just trust God, and say Hi to him each day.

Kit

 

[Grace]

Back to the drawing board

Ok...looking at all the scriptures and studing futher into this. I do believe that we are a triune being. Body, Soul and Spirit.

Gen. 2:7 "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground(this is the body), and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life(this is mans spirit-Prov. 20:27; Zechariah12:20)/ and man became a living soul(this is the soul).

New Test. also agrees with this as others have posted in 1 Thess.5:23. Heb. 4:12 also mentions all three.

The spirit of man holds three functions:
Conscience-(Rom. 9:1; 8:16)
Fellowship-(John 4:24; Eph. 8:16)
Intuition-(1 Cor. 2:11)
With our spirit we contact, receive and contain God.

The soul of man holds three functions:
Mind-(Ps. 139:14; Lamentations 3:20)
Will-(Job 7:15; 6:7)
emotion-(Songs of Solomon 1:7; Ps. 86:4; Samuel 5:8)
The soul as it is renewed by the Word will express and relfect God.

The body of man holds 5 functions:
taste
smell
hear
touch
see
All of these functions of the body help us relate to the world around us. Without it we could not live on earth.

The heart of man seems to be a combination of the spirit and soul.(Gen. 6:5; Mtt. 9:4; Acts 11:23;Heb. 4:12; John 16:6; Heb. 10:22; 1 John 3:20)

 

[Grace]

Fall of man affected all three-body,soul and spirit

His first attack was to the soul-
Satan's attack was on the mind- to doubt God!
Satan's attack was on the emotion-cause Eve to resent God by lying about his motives!
Satan's attack was on the will-caused Eve to choose the tree of good and evil!

The attack on the flesh was as she believed and obeyed she took sin in. It now dwells in us. (Rom. 7:17)

Our spirit was separated from God. (Eph.2:1)

This is why no good thing dwells in us before salvation. (Rom. 7:18)

 

[eddieb]

This is a little hard to follow..
I think all understand that one day we will physically die (spirit separate from the body). But that spirit will live for eternity...where it lives will depend on whether we believe the gospel of Jesus Christ.
So what spirit was breathed into Adam? Is the breath of God the Holy Spirit?

Where in scripture does it say that babies are born spiritually dead (spirit/soul seperate from God)?

here is another place God breathed on.....

Joh 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

i am not trying to make it difficult. the breath of God is life. God is spirit.

you asked where it says when we are born we are spiritually dead/seperated from God? i already gave the scripture. gen 2:17. God said you(adam) shall surely die. it translates literally in dieing you shall die. here is another scripture. the wages of sin is death. the concept can be found thru out scripture. sin = death. but we still have biological life. i.e. heart pumping blood, lungs breathing. etc. really its a major point of why we need Jesus to bridge us back to God. the bible calls Jesus the second adam. i wasnt speaking about when we physicaly die.

 

[Grace]

here is another place God breathed on.....

Joh 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

i am not trying to make it difficult. the breath of God is life. God is spirit.

you asked where it says when we are born we are spiritually dead/seperated from God? i already gave the scripture. gen 2:17. God said you(adam) shall surely die. it translates literally in dieing you shall die. here is another scripture. the wages of sin is death. the concept can be found thru out scripture. sin = death. but we still have biological life. i.e. heart pumping blood, lungs breathing. etc. really its a major point of why we need Jesus to bridge us back to God. the bible calls Jesus the second adam. i wasnt speaking about when we physicaly die.

So you are saying that God took his Holy Spirit out of Adam. So he lost his salvation?(separated from God) But he still had a spirit of man because without the spirit he would die physically (this death came later. Is this correct?

I do believe that sin entered Adam when he disobeyed God!

 

[eddieb]

So you are saying that God took his Holy Spirit out of Adam. So he lost his salvation?(separated from God) But he still had a spirit of man because without the spirit he would die physically (this death came later. Is this correct?

I do believe that sin entered Adam when he disobeyed God!

adam sinned so adam became "dead" spiritually. so no, not really saying God took it. more like adam turned.

i am not really sure on the whole spirit of man thing. i want to ask you where you are getting this from in scripture? also curious where you got the notion he would die physically. not to say you are wrong, or anything bad, but i am at a loss for words here. i dont even know how to respond to that.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

check out gen. 2:17. (God dont lie)

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely DIE.

here is a scripture, one where God is speaking, that clearly states adam "died". however he lived quite awhile after that specific day, in which God said you will surely die. The bible says the wages of sin is death. adam sinned by not obeying Gods command. his spirit "died". he became disconnected from God by "killing" the breath God breathed in the dirt to make adam a living soul. when we (adams seed) are born we are born dead in sin. Christ is the resurection and the life. in order for us to live again spiritually Christ (God is spirit) must enter our fleshly temples. the "life" is Gods spirit. people with out this spirit are literally "living dead"

I'm butting in here LOL
What died in the garden? Our spirits died because of sin.

Ephesians 2:4-9 (King James Version)


<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-29234">4</sup>But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-29235">5</sup>Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-29236">6</sup>And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-29237">7</sup>That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-29238">8</sup>For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-29239">9</sup>Not of works, lest any man should boast.


Colossians 2:13-15 (King James Version)


<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-29508">13</sup>And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-29509">14</sup>Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-29510">15</sup>And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

 

[Grace]

adam sinned so adam became "dead" spiritually. so no, not really saying God took it. more like adam turned.

i am not really sure on the whole spirit of man thing. i want to ask you where you are getting this from in scripture? also curious where you got the notion he would die physically. not to say you are wrong, or anything bad, but i am at a loss for words here. i dont even know how to respond to that.

The body does not live physically without a spirit (not Holy Spirit-this is what gives spiritual life). I see that the Holy Spirit comes to live inside our spirit.

When Jesus breathed on the disciples they were already physically alive-meaning they had spirit/soul/ body.

Are you saying that God made Adam and he would physically die before the fall? I thought physical death was part of the curse too?
(Gen. 3:19) Most everything else I gave scriptures..