What About Works?: What About Judgment for the Church?

[Boanerges]

What About Works; What About Judgment for the Church?

Salvation does not come by works but like all precious gifts from God it must be received by faith.


Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. Tit 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,


Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Tit 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

Tit 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.


Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved


Some had their fleshly efforts (man’s work at man’s leading) burned and yet are saved:

1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.


1. So why the great focus on works???

There is to be a natural outflowing of this salvation and indwelling that in truth cannot be contained. Our works are to be the Father’s Works which He has in His great wisdom prepared for us (Eph 2:10). Works demonstrate outwardly what is going on inwardly:

Pro 20:11 Even a child is known by his doings, whether his work be pure, and whether it be right.

Luk_6:44 For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.


2. Works demonstrate an active living faith for true faith in Christ will always be reaching out in Love, touching and ministering to every needy soul. Head knowledge produces man’s work but true Spirit filled , living faith produces a living expression of the Father’s own heart.

Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?


3. Works reveal Christ living in us; like Jesus we are led of, empowered by, and filled with the Holy Spirit; we do the Father’s works and speak the Father’s Words not our own.

1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;


4. Will your works bring Him glory? Our works are to be the living expression of our lives as the Spirit of God fills us and shows Christ to a lost and dying world. Every believer’s works will be tried by God’s Holy Fire (Heb_12:29) for no flesh shall glory in His Presence (1Co_1:29). Every believer walking in tune with God’s own heart is completely dependent on the Holy Spirit (Rom_8:14 ) . What a wonderful day it will be when we cast these at the feet of the One we love.

1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.


Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ


5. The believer’s judgment

The believer’s judgment is different from that of the lost world. He, looking for his Lord’s return with joyful expectation, walking in union and communion with the Holy Spirit, will find his lamp is always filled with Oil. Our Lord bore our sin and because of this we are accepted in Christ and may enter freely, boldly, and joyfully into the most holy place to meet his Father.

.The believer facing god with a heart of faith in Christ will find His works judged for his sin has been judged in Christ and the believer will find no condemnation. (John 3:18, 5:24, 6:37, Rom. 5:1, 8:1, 1 Cor. 11:32)

If one be the youngest babe in Christ or the greatest Apostle there is but one leg to stand on when we see His face and that the shed blood of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ- it is in His righteousness that we stand:

2Co_5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.


1Co_1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:


Rom_3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:


Rom_5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Rom_8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.


1Pe 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

1Pe 2:25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

1Jn_2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1Jn_4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.


In Christ, we are accepted in the beloved, we are sons, we have an inheritance, and, so much more. The bride (the church) unlike the lost, waits, yearns, and cries out desperately for the return of the One she loves (Rev_22:17)


To the born again ones, beloved of God:

• Read His Word daily asking our Teacher (the Holy Spirit) to give you revelation into that Word . Ask Him to show you how to apply it in your life and the lives of others.
  
  
• Pray without ceasing- have an attitude of prayer in all you do. Maintain a constant awareness of His nearness and His presence in your life.
  
  
• Worship Him with all your heart. Let go of all restraints, forget everyone and everything else around you as you press into His presence with a heart of Love. It is said that a choir’s physical heartbeat synchronizes as one when they are in worship and so it is in the spirit- worship Him with all your being and His heart’s desire will be your heart’s desire
  
  
  

Do these things and you will be the one walking in complete union and communion with His perfect will for your life.



Much Love and many blessings in Jesus Name,



Your brother Larry.

 

[Travis]

2Co_5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

I absolutely adore this verse.

How fathomless is the mystery that Jesus became sin for us. For the Son of God, who was/is so perfectly separate and totally opposite to anything that bears the stain of sin, to take on the sins of the world, to bear our sins in his own body on the tree, to bear the wrath of God almighty on our behalf. My mind does not have the capability of perceiving these things. I'm at, and beyond, my limits. This is love, for God is love.

Romans 8
32 He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things?​

Blessings,

Travis

 

[Boanerges]

I absolutely adore this verse.

How fathomless is the mystery that Jesus became sin for us. For the Son of God, who was/is so perfectly separate and totally opposite to anything that bears the stain of sin, to take on the sins of the world, to bear our sins in his own body on the tree, to bear the wrath of God almighty on our behalf. My mind does not have the capability of perceiving these things. I'm at, and beyond, my limits. This is love, for God is love.

Romans 8
32 He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things?​

Blessings,

Travis

Amen brother. We must ask for revelation to even begin to understand these things.

 

[kjw47]

I absolutely adore this verse.

How fathomless is the mystery that Jesus became sin for us. For the Son of God, who was/is so perfectly separate and totally opposite to anything that bears the stain of sin, to take on the sins of the world, to bear our sins in his own body on the tree, to bear the wrath of God almighty on our behalf. My mind does not have the capability of perceiving these things. I'm at, and beyond, my limits. This is love, for God is love.

Romans 8
32 He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things?​

Blessings,

Travis

Hi, At Hebrews 10:26---Paul teaches---Jesus sacrifice does not count for those who practice sin--- Here at Matthew 7:21-23---- Jesus teaches--only those who live to do the Fathers will, get to enter his kingdom, then he goes on to say--- to these called Christian--did many wonderful works in Jesus name--but he calls them--workers of iniquity= a practicer of sin-- then he tells them--get away from me, I must confess, I never even knew you( this is final judgement scenario) --we must be careful not to even practice a single sin.

 

[Brighthouse]

Very nice Brother Larry! For what I am about to put forth,i must be very careful,I would much rather speak this,but I will do my very best not to offend another,and please keep this in mind as well,What I am about to say, is for you yourself to consider,as we are all accountable for how we each choose to believe. I myself, do not see Faith and belief as the same. Faith as my very good brother Larry put forth does indeed come from Jesus only!! I had nothing to do with it,nor could I have had anything to do with what our Jesus has already done! My brother listed ephesians correctly!! The only difference I have with my good brother in his fine words is this. Notice this please.( john 6:28-29) Therefore they said to Him What shall WE DO so that we MAY WORK the works of God? Jesus answered! This is the work of God! that you BELIEVE! in him whom he has sent!

To believe in what Jesus has already done! YES! Now where does belief come from? ( rom 10:9-10) Not from God but from us.Can Holy Spirit play any role in ones belief? I will not speak for others but he sure did for me! Holy Spirit fell upon me to start with in order for me to begin believing! However! As matt13:18-23 states,ones own belief can indeed change. UNTIL!!!! We get to verse 23!!! Bearing fruit is the result of our belief in what Jesus himself has already done! In James 2:19-26 my instruction from Holy Spirit to me is this.Abraham was not called a friend of God because he said he believed,he was called a friend of God verse 23 because of the work Abraham did because he believed!

No one can change what Jesus has already done,Jesus and Jesus alone is the only faith! But we can choose the work from that faith,and that is our own belief in what we believe he has done for us.) 2 Peter 1:3-11) Do we believe this? Our work through what our Jesus has already done determines our judgement,for if Jesus did the believing for his children,then how could he judge any of his children rightly? ( speaking apart now from my good brother Larry!,The following,making a different point to what some believe) Some Believe Jesus predestined all people already,and if this were true,then how is it a person can regard any day more then another?( rom 14:5-12!!) If we have no will, then we have no choice either. And since our God is no respecter of any person( acts 10:34) then there could not ever be a consequence to unbelief? But there is a consequence to ones unbelief!( col 3:25)

And we our self decide our own belief.( Joshua 24:14-15 and 1 kings 18:21) (Your belief is an action,and fruit is born from such action) As Jesus himself did when he said in Luke 22:42 NOT MY WILL but YOURS!! We have a will! God did not even take his own will from his own Son. For if Jesus did not have any will, he could never have made this profound statement! Jesus being God in the flesh could have changed his mind,Jesus knew this,hence why in the flesh for our sake he spoke these words.For like Jesus, we are to be led, and to stay led by Holy Spirit,the purpose of Holy Spirit falling upon our Jesus to start with!( rom 8:14-15) The great difference I have with many believers is this statement." God is in full control of our lives!

If this were so,then unbelief would also have to come from God himself,and we see by the world who the god is of it.( 2 cor 4:4) And we know god can never deny himself!( heb 6:13-19!!) That hope which comes from the Lord,comes by your belief in what he has already done!( rom 15:13) This of course is not to under mind whatsoever what Jesus did!! It confirms what Jesus has already did for each of us, whether we choose to believe this or not,but make no mistake belief must come from the believer,not from the creator. God knows already the truth,and we must learn to choose to believe also,that is the right God himself gave man from the very beginning in the garden!( genesis 2:16-20) who gave the names to all the animals? Indeed man did. When has the Lord have taken back control he first gave to man? He will when he returns! For what reason would Jesus need to come back if he was in full control of each of our lives? Indeed, we as believers WANT JESUS in control of our Lives!! I sure do!

And my will, based upon by my only work in believing, does indeed determine this. Even as Jesus in the flesh spoke. My sincere hope,is that anger does not build in some of you,but rather,looking to reason does!( Isaiah 1:18) For to reason, is to look in a direction other then where one is standing in, in hope of becoming blessed from that direction. As a believer, my calling through Christ Jesus is indeed a meek calling,I am only the bell ringer for the Kingdom of God( rom 13:11) Many of you have a far greater calling indeed! But in order for God's people to hear your voice,someone must ring the bell for service. hehe May this bell bless your eyes and your ears,to the very Glory of our LIVING Jesus!! amen!( jude 1:20-25!!) And thanks so very much Boanerges for your true love of Jesus!! You sure are a great blessing to me brother!

 

[Boanerges]

@Brighthouse , I could not agree more- those who choose not to believe in Christ are definitely not counted amongst His children. God gives everyone the ability to believe but not all will choose to do so. Also, our works ( our fruit) are indeed judged, but if our sins are not judged in Christ then we are lost.

 

[Boanerges]

@kjw47, if ne is led of the Spirit one will not walk in sin, but only as one slips into the flesh can this happen. The main idea of the thread however is the interaction between works and the judgment of the bride's works and not specifically on sin. No one on this forum would promote the idea of deliberate sin. As far as the ones who did what looks like all the right things (works) but were rejected; these He plainly declared I do not know you- these were never born again into His family but were tares planted amongst the wheat.

 

[kjw47]

@kjw47, if ne is led of the Spirit one will not walk in sin, but only as one slips into the flesh can this happen. The main idea of the thread however is the interaction between works and the judgment of the bride's works and not specifically on sin. No one on this forum would promote the idea of deliberate sin. As far as the ones who did what looks like all the right things (works) but were rejected; these He plainly declared I do not know you- these were never born again into His family but were tares planted amongst the wheat.

The unfortunate thing is that many who are practicing sin are being told they are saved or born again. I truly believe going to worship two days a year( Easter and Christmas) does not cut it with Jesus. After all God requires ones whole heart, soul, mind and strength. There are religions telling some of these--you are saved-1Cor 6:9-11, Galations 5:19-21--2Timothy 3-- it is sad because they believe they are saved.
How many religions claim to be Christian on earth? many--yet according to 1Cor 1:10--that is impossible. Jesus didn't start many religions--he started 1. It is all that is needed, its all there was in the ot. One truth, one faith, one God, one religion--united as a worldwide brotherhood in love and peace and thought. That makes it very difficult on a mortal heart to find that one. unless they listened to Jesus who taught---Man does not live by bread alone, but by every utterance from God. His real teachers teach every utterance-ot-nt. And get them deep into ones heart to live by daily.

 

[Boanerges]

KJW47, we have no disagreement on what you have said here. While all sin, a Christian does not live in a deliberate lifestyle of sin; without the presence of the Spirit of God working in your life one cannot walk as a believer.

 

[Boanerges]

@Brighthouse my friend, there is something else I would like to put forth: the men of the old covenant were told where is your faith?? There was not one born again person amongst them. This includes our precious brethren from the old testament and the Jews, the other lost people, the religious people- and all Jesus taught in His earth walk. After the day of Pentecost this question was not put forth again: there were no believers (born again ones) before Pentecost (the birth of the Church) . Only those covered with the blood (believers) could receive the Oil (the Holy Spirit); only those covered by the blood (already received by faith) received new life from the Holy Spirit (Rom 8:11). the difference was startling. Peter and the other 10 apostles were indeed cowering inside closed doors in fear but the day the became born again of the Spirit they became lions for Christ.
My point, to be one of the church (the original topic of this thread) one would have to have already believed to receive. To be outside of that makes it impossible to be part of the church of Jesus Christ; impossible to be born again; and, impossible to be judged outside ones own sin- thus not included in the ones it was my intent to discuss.

 

[Brighthouse]

WOW Boanerges!! hehe This can be complicated to explain.LOL So I will let you consider this,rather then look to tell you anything! Because as we both know we see through a mirror darkly.( 1 cor 13:12) Under the Old Covenant one is judged according to the law,hence why we, as believers can never go back to it for any reason! The example of our saints listed quite clearly through hebrews 11:3-40,and please pay close attention to verses 39-40!!) Two points to consider here. Since all of these died without having gained approval,after Jesus died he would of had to go preach this to them.( eph 4:7-10) This discussion alone can lead us to many possible solutions to what Jesus preached and did after his death in the abode of the dead.

But how ever you decide on what Jesus did,he led a host from there to heaven,and he gave gifts unto men,and what gifts do you believe he bestowed upon them?( Will there not be eph 4:11-13 in heaven as well as here on earth?) I sure also would think his own baptism as in the book of Acts.Hence your fine verse in rom 8:11 And since Jesus promised this to them,he had to fulfill his promise as well, which he did.

Point 2 Today's believer is without excuse( rom 1:20) Since today's believer has become enlightened,and if they go back to the law anyway,as spoke in heb 6:4-6 this I believe directly refers back to Gal 5:4!! For when you have freedom through the blood of Jesus Christ and wish to go back to ones own works,then your judgement can only be done by that belief. And what does the Word say in accordance to this? Rom 10:4!,To everyone who does what?? Yes brother believes!

Your statement that is impossible as to becoming part of the church,impossible to be born again,is a bold statement indeed! And i would agree IF!!! This person followed after what rom 1:21-25 I cannot judge a person in this brother,as i know you are not doing either! This goes back to self, and gal 5:4.So!!

If a person does indeed follow after the Old, then they become part of the Old and are judged according to the law. A sad state to be in for sure bro! i really prayed about making this as simple as i could! This of course is just one view,to which I believe myself strongly in,but like any belief ones holds to,another brother of sister can also shed more light upon this,to perhaps make things more clear for me as well! I always consider another viewpoint! As long as they show scripture in there viewpoint! We all can speculate( 2 tim 2:23) I never wish to do this talking about our Jesus!

So I have given you scripture, as to both what, and why i believe as I do in this,and if you do not agree,that is cool,just please provide for me your viewpoint and the scripture you find that led you to your own belief in this.Of Course good brother Boanerges I am not only speaking to you here. LOL Many, as we both know will view this text. I hope, I have answered, what you desired brother Boanerges, your bold statement, which many in the church would cross there eyes to,because of the accountability your bold statement makes to all of us!! We bottom line believers can have a tough time, as we both judge our self very harshly! And we both know why we do this to! Blessing always brother Larry!! ( psalm 27:13!!)

 

[amadeus2]

Where is our good brother @Boanerges ? This is apparently the last thread on which he posted. I always looked forward to reading what he wrote as God was with him and he definitely blessed me greatly with what he shared.