unsure of what to do-biblebased question

[Coconut]

Ephesians is not a command to endure tyranny. It is easy to read 'submit' and gloss over the mystery of Christ as head of his church. However, this relationship forms the entire substance of that command! Christ does not lead the church into false things, and is in every case obedient to the will of the Father. Thus obeying every command of a husband who does not submit himself to God is not being led by your husband as the church is led by Christ. If you truly feel that God calls you to teach, then answer his command joyfully. Much scripture and martyrs show (see the above acts) that although the father and husband have authority, there is a higher Father whose commands are not guaranteed to accord with those of the man, but whose Authority is infinitely greater. I 'm sure I must misunderstand some of Coconuts posts, but this talk of family as God's number one institution, which seems to me to be directly contradicted by the hierarchy that Paul establishes in Ephesians, sounds dangerously close to inserting the husband as an intercessor between God and women. Perhaps ya'll might clear that up for me?

I`m wishing I misunderstood your post, but I dont. :wink:
You sound dangerously close to trying to using God to cancel out His own Word. Of course anyone reading this can easily see for themselves that there was not even a hint of suggestion that a husband is the intercessor between God and woman. Again...

Tit 2:4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

 

[byhisgrace]

Sister, I see your tone changed from your first post to the last, why is that? It seems to me 'thou dost protest too much' lol ...but anyways...
It is entirely possible, (and we only have to look at the climbing divorce rate amoung 'christians' as proof) to be submitted to ones husband, in body but not in spirit. The same applys to hubands of course.
Wether you realize it or not, you words here seem do show roots of bitterness towards your husband...



You might ask how I can say that...I can because I have been there...
and know bitterness creeps up on us so slowly we dont even see it in ourselves until its too late...bitterness grows into rebellion ...and thats where the trouble lies...

Heb 12:15 See to it that no one fails to obtain the grace of God; that no "root of bitterness" springs up and causes trouble, and by it many become defiled;




I was concerned when I read what you said above, and I was trying to address that in my responses. I have tried to say, and do say, for the benefit of other women who may be reading, and seeking the same answers as you, if your "feelings" about Gods will for your life (even if based on worthy aspirations) do, or have the potential to cause "unpeace" or "upset your home life" then its time to check your feelings against the Word.



Let me be more direct and give the short answer to this question.

NO you are not supposed to do it.

If God wants a married man or woman to do something, then it is my belief and understanding, according to the Word (which is what you asked for and I attempted to share with you) that God will bring the spouse into agreement with that by His Spirit. Thats where patience comes in to play..
The writer of Hebrews commended the readers for all they were doing...and then added...

Heb 10:35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Blessings

first, my tone changed b/c after praying and rechecking all scriptures given, I realize, tho I still have a desire to join this church and be involved in all of it, I don't HAVE to. I still want to, and I don't believe my want is wrong. The fellowship of other believers is strengthening, and it is awesome to be surrounded by hundreds of others praising God at the same time, hearing the testimonies, seeing the miracles. no internet could make up for that. And husband doesn't mind me and the kids "going", like I said, when we come home he always asks how it was, and we'll go over what was preached about and he hasn't said anything against me 'joining'. He goes when the kids have something going on, he's just not into it, or any other church right now, and I don't nag him about it, I have asked him about where we were going before when he was looking for a church, but I stopped asking after he stopped looking. I invited my mother to a special service we were having about two weeks ago, and he was sitting at the table with us and he said "I might go with you guys too, if I'm invited", so I told him he was of course, always, and he went and enjoyed it and that was it.
this was just something I...in bold... was torn with.
And when you are unsure of what to do, confused about something...pray and don't do anything. So I will be still. Let go and let God. If it is something that is supposed to be done, there will be no stopping it.


and to the other...
It's very hard to do tones over the internet. I was trying hard to type that in a way that no one would take as "bitterness" but just as a statement of fact. I honestly harbor no bitterness toward my husband. It is just something we have went through and that's it. I was just trying to get everyone to understand that I DO follow him and serve him and I always have without regret or animosity. I was trying to use examples of times when things were hard and he was still my head and I still followed him. Except for when he wasn't going to work, I had to "talk him into" letting me so we wouldn't be homeless. We have a good relationship, we've just been through some things and even when it was hard and the world looked from the outside and said "why do you...." I'd answer, because he's my husband and my head. without resentment for it. It took a while in the beginning to get to that point for me. At one time he was suicidal and all that, he's still pessimistic, but he has come a long way, through the Grace of God.
I was not posting that to complain or protest...I was just trying to give examples and state that I still followed and served him always.

I am hoping for this as well, ...guess it just might take more time. I do want us to be together in this. Especially this. Help me Lord to be patient, I hear Your voice and feel Your presence in this. Help me to Accept whatever Your will is and show me how to go about it. It is all for You, Your glory and praise. Help me to do and say things in a way that will be a light, honoring You in all things. I want More of You Lord always. ugghh...I just prayed for patience...hmmm

I still feel drawn to this church and I feel led to teach, this hasn't changed. And the Lord has put me in situations where I am the teacher, even tho I am not supposed to be. honestly I (the flesh) doesn't desire to be. I'd rather be invisible. I don't like being in front of anything. I have been a teacher before and didn't like it. But it seems like that before was just preparing me for what He wants to use me for now. He has been putting me in spots where I have to be and even tho in the flesh it was intimidating, it was awesome. It can stay that way. I was just wanting some scriptures maybe I hadn't read, since my husband has not said "no" and does not object, and I still felt drawn but he does not.
thank you everyone for your replies

 

[byhisgrace]

It does sound as though you have some bitterness towards your husband. Not that I could blame you in your situation, but several times in your posts there is a flavor that you have just about reached your limit of tolerance with him, and while perhaps you genuinely want to serve the Lord, there is some kind of resentment towards your husband which should be dealt with properly.

I know a sister in our locality who has been married to an unbeliever for I guess 50 years now. And he drinks, and constantly persecutes her for her faith. She testified that she used to hate words in the Bible like Ephesians 5 because she could not submit herself to such a man who wasn't worthy to be submitted to.

But as she went on the Lord showed her how to learn to enjoy His all sufficient grace in her situation. She testifies that she learned that even to suffer under her husband has become sweet to her in the Lord. And she is a person full of Christ.

But she still serves the Lord in every possible way she can. Her husband allows her - and like the shameless woman before the judge, I think she often bothers him to allow her. I don't know whether it is right or not, but my feeling is that it's ok. Her husband doesn't forbid her from serving the Lord - he only mocks her for it, which I suppose is the cross for her.

But hasn't your situation purified your heart? Hasn't it brought you to depend on the Lord in a desperate way? That is His entire purpose.
Anyway grace to you dear sister.

this is very inspiring...
tho my husband is not mocking or disbelieving...her life is an inspiration to all who wait upon the Lord.
AWESOME! thanks for sharing

 

[cerebus]

yes she is quite an amazing person. She loves the Lord with her entire heart.

I don't know that there is a real problem with you being a part of this church. You talk about a distinction between attending it and 'joining' it - but it seems like you're already a big part of it.

Actually I understand your point quite well. Many Christians treat churches like an outfit that they can try on and discard as they see fit. I can't agree with coconut's assertion that you it's 'absolutely unscriptural' to feel that you should be committed to something in the Lord's work, but that's another discussion altogether. But this sister is totally for the church life that we have here; her entire capacity is spent on it. And she is able to be a wife and a mother (and a grandmother) in the middle of all of it. It is possible.

 

[Br. Bear]

Example....

Greetings sister,

All Scripture points to truth. Often it is cut up into sections that are then used in vain to justify the flesh.
(this is not referring to anyone in particular)

You are a mother....yes? Guess what? You are therefore, an example for your children. I know you know this, but, there is more.... and yet, that is the answer I think you may be looking for.... let me explain....

submission... to many it is a threat, of being a lesser individual. This is wrong if it is Godly intention that motivates submission.

I think you would agree that the Lord knew what He was doing when He put it all together, including the Bible. Given that glorious truth, let us build on it...to see what exactly He had in mind for us now.

There is order in all of God's creation, for a reason, and that reason can be summarized as this, to keep it all as planned.
The New Testament tells us that a wife should submit to her husband. Why? Or do you just do it, cos it says so?
Let us look at children.... what and who do they take after? Have you ever noticed that some things that your children do are just like their father does? It is the same for you. Now, see this.... you are the wife of your husband.... and, he is not your wife... ah, profound! you might say....but wait,
only you can show your children about submission.... read it again.... only you can show your children about submission....

write it down somewhere, sister. I will tell you why...

throughout the land, we submit to the laws, and for most of them it is OK to do so, and we don't have a problem with them, because they ultimately benefit us... right? But there are always a few that we find a touch too much.... right? So, what do we do? Submit or break them?

Now, we have the Church, of which Christ is the Head (praise you Lord) and we are to submit to Him, as our Lord and King, in all things....
this is where it gets really important to listen sister.....

your children may learn about going to church, and mum standing up for doing just that..... BUT, what about the example of submission that they need to understand and learn from you, remembering that they can only learn it from you, as their mum? And when they face everyday trials, everyday cross-to-bear-life, how will they tackle it?

Now, remember the Garden.... mmmmmmm.... just so happens that it was Eve who decided to listen to the serpent.... due to the flesh getting the better of her.... now Adam did worse in my book, but that's a different subject just now, and Eve bargained the command of God, sort of weighed it up and decided in her own wisdom to do what she did.

Life is full of decisions like that..... every day, all day we must make decisions. When we make room to decide whether or not to submit, we run into trouble.....
Have another look at what happened that day.... Did the Lord not say that in that day ye would die.... well, we know they didn't die a physical instant death, but it certainly set in and has stayed up until now, except for the Salvation of God in Jesus Christ the Lord .
So, our children, your children, will see that it is OK to bend the rules when it suits the flesh.... and the result of such a lesson, may take years to manifest in full.... if they see that you decide that enough is enough, you want to go to that church against your husbands wishes. (If in fact that is what the case is, sister.... if not, all said here is still in context of submission).
I write about this because you pointed it out.... submission.

So, do you submit because you feel you have to? Do you think you have submitted enough?
Imagine Abraham..." mmmmmm? I think I will pass on this idea of sacrificing my son? " In fact, look at any Biblical men and women of God, and see how thy could have decided, with really good reasons, too, (worldly speaking) to pass on some of the things they were required to do..... and then there are those who did pass, and decided to not submit.... look what happened to them.

We read our children Bible stories, we take them to Sunday School...some even teach there.... and we tell all about men and women of FAITH.....

We walk by faith, not by sight, sister.

so, this situation you are deciding upon..... do what you do for the Lord, and Him alone, and your children will follow.

As a side note, have you noticed children getting argumentative with parents, answering back, or ignoring what they are told? There is a fair chance that they are merely following an example.
A VERY IMPORTANT NOTE !.... HUSBANDS, LOVE YOUR WIVES AS CHRIST LOVED THE CHURCH.... very important, and equally able to be ignored with consequences on par with wives not submitting..... men... LOVE your wives as Christ loved the Church and gave Himself for it/her!!!

Even within the Church, we see the rules of God being followed ... by this I point to the saved Body of believers whose head is Christ.

Now, why do we submit to the rules of health? Because we want to be healthy!

Can I ask a question? Is it OK to teach children that to follow the Lord it is OK to decide not to follow what He commands? Many people do, and going back to the church at large, that is what we see, and that is what others judge the church to be, AND, you and I both know that the church at large, meaning the multiple divided congregations with all their individual decisions that they call their doctrines and/or constitutions, are basically not following the Lord, and are not serving Him but themselves. This is because, in part at least, they decide not to submit to His commandments and the example He set Himself and through His prophets and apostles.

So, dear sister, please think on these things and may God lead you in His way and bless you and yours.

Bless you ...>

Br. Bear

ps... I am sorry I have not quoted Scripture here, and I ask if someone could please post a few Scriptures in reference to what has been said... thank you.