unsure of what to do-biblebased question

[byhisgrace]

unsure, confused, anyone got an answer?

OK...here's my thing
I am a wholehearted, bible Believing, God comes FIRST Christian. Have been for MANY years. My kids and I have been going to this awesome church for about 1 1/2 years, I and they absolutely love it. When we first moved here where we live 3 years ago, we tried to find a good church to go to for about a year.
the area we live in has a lot of "old school" prejudice people...didn't know that til we moved here...but now we are here for good, so instead of accepting that (b/c my next husband will be Jamaican...lol) and our family isn't the least bit. ANYWHO...we would start going to one church then another and always something would come up and that was it...off to another...My husband is a christian as well, and he---being "head of the household" where ever he thought we should go to church we went. He's older and into the old time hymns, bluegrass type which are good and every church we've ever been to as a family has been that way. We've not joined any church b.c there's not been that feeling of home there and we've not felt like we were supposed to be there.
after about a year of looking, I think he got tired of looking...so, every week when he made no suggestions or looked like he wouldn't be going anywhere, I would suggest or ask where we were going...b/c I am a "be there every time the doors are open and be in it ALL" type person...so staying home when I should be there was just wrong... But for about a year he stopped going so we ALL stopped going...It was terrible. He'd say we'll try here and then....nothing...he was always the one driving...and he always liked making these decisions.
FINALLY, I told him, I am sorry, but I can't just sit home...I NEED it, and the kids need it...we all do...He says he can't find anywhere to go, I suggest...he says no. So, I've heard about a church (we heard about it when we first moved here...but it was known as "that church", so he never wanted to go), and decide...by golly, if he's not going to step up and be the "head of the household, spiritual leader of the family" the bible says he needs to be, then I am going to have to DO something.
we start going....the kids love it, I love it.... we all get involved in the classes and programs...husband has been there, and thinks everything's good except the music and just refuses to go...which is his right. So I tell him when he decides to go somewhere we'll go with him. But we have been going there now for 1 1/2 years. I am a "helper" at my youngest son's sunday morning service class, but I have taught it when the teacher wasn't prepared, they want me to be a teacher, but without joining I can't be. there are usually about 20--5&6 yr olds which is his age group with 4-5 teacher/helpers. It is a wonderful church with missions and if you can't get involved there...then it's b/c you don't want to.
ANYWAY...my question:
I soooo much want to join this church...I feel drawn to this church...but joining a church is a commitment and it is not something you make with a light heart.
It is a serious one before God. It is, to me, a marriage. You are joining
in a solid solemn oath of commitment/marriage that you will love, honor,
obey, receive instruction, follow, tithe and forever become one with that
church...before God, until the time that or if God moves you to another are where you will no longer be able to faithfully attend and serve (essentially) equal to the death of a spouse) upon which you will have to find another one in faith. I sooo much want to make that commitment, but I feel that it is wrong to go against my husband as well, because he is the head and the leader even if Christ is not his head, he is still mine, both Christ and my husband are my heads...but what if they are pulling separately from each other?
Should I make that committment without my husband?
what would the bible say about it. Because he has made the statement that he is NEVER going to get involved in that church...not because of anything bad, but because he doesn't like the style of music they use. But he's not going to ANY church. and I CAN'T do that....God comes first with me...then my husband...and he knows this. But I also want to do what I am supposed to do....ugghh,..I know, pray about it.
I don't want "world" views, b/c I LIVE by the Bible

 

[cerebus]

Has he forbidden you from going? Do you have to deceive him in order to go?

 

[byhisgrace]

no, he has not forbidden me...and no, he knows the kids and I go, every Sunday and Wednesday...he's been there when the kids have something going on...he just says he will NEVER be a part of that church.
he just doesn't go, which, like I said, is fine...
But I do want to not 'just' go to this church, I have a desire to join this church. And I feel like when you join a church it is a big commitment, not just 'oh, I'll go here for a little while'. To me, it is basically a marriage..until death do you part. so, make sure it's the right one BEFORE you make that commitment. I am loyal to a fault...lol. Problem is, if he never comes there after I've joined, and later finds a church he really loves, I am still bound (by my oath, and my word is my bond) that this is my church, so we will be going to separate churches which is kinda weird being married and all. But he may never find any church. He hasn't had the desire to go to any for the past 2 1/2 years...
I can't just wait for him to make up his mind IF he even wants to go to church.
He says he can't find one...but there are 150 in our county (by googling) so there should be one..but he doesn't want to drive very far either..my church is about 10 minutes away and it's too far....I don't know.
Maybe the problem is not him not wanting to go to one particular church but any. there always seems to be a reason why he doesn't want to go at all. And if he chose to not go, that's his choice and I don't push him one bit...but this whole being in limbo thing is not easy to deal with. If he doesn't have the desire or need to go to church that is him. But not me. I need to go and the kids love it. Make up your mind already, I want to say, but I wait. that is my dilemma

 

[cerebus]

Well I ask because I heard a similar thing with a sister whose husband actually forbade her, and she told him that she was doing something else in order to go, then when the church found out about her deception they told her to go back and submit to her husband. Eventually he came in along with her.

But I also know many couples where one spouse isn't going on with the Lord or isn't meeting where they do. You have to have a Christian life, and it needs to have the top priority to you. You are blessed that he doesn't actively stand in your way. I can't advise you more than that though.

 

[byhisgrace]

thank you for your posts Cerebus, it means a lot. Do you know any scriptures that may help me in this?
I try to put God first in everything, but when it's someone you are supposed to be submitted to and it seems the two are pulling different directions it's hard.
I want to do what the Bible says, and I want to do what I feel God is leading me to as well. It should be one in the same. There was a ministry I wanted to be involved in this last Christmas but husband didn't want me to, because it was too dangerous he said, but I feel like I did wrong by obeying. I know if and when I take this stand, it will just be the beginning...who knows where it will lead...

 

[cerebus]

Well I can't say too much because I don't want to sound as though I have the answer you're looking for, when your real need is to seek the Lord's leading and the fellowship of the believers. You need to follow the sense of life and peace (Rom 8:6).

 

[byhisgrace]

I know it...lol
that's the same answer always....and it is the only true one.
I need to look at eternal, spiritual peace, because the natural will never be at peace.
what will make my soul free and at peace. If I am honest I will have to admit that I am afraid that once making this decision it is may cause the natural things in my life to have total "unpeace" for a while. But I guess, it's what is supposed to happen when you really let go and Let God. Maybe I've never turned it all over and completely followed Him afraid of where it will take me and what will happen in my home life.
I feel like this is a crossroads. A decision in my life that if I chose one or the other, it is going to make the biggest change in my life, or if I don't....not. Maybe........hmmm
maybe I need to think and pray on what I've just "spoken" and pray.

 

[cerebus]

Sister, don't worry about your outward environment. only be afraid to lose the Lord's presence. If you want a verse I can share this:

2 Cor 2:12**Furthermore, when I came to Troas for the gospel of Christ and a door was open to me in the Lord,
2:13**I had no rest in my spirit, for I did not find Titus my brother; but taking leave of them, I went forth into Macedonia.

Here in an outwardly positive situation, Paul testified that he followed the rest in his spirit.

7:5**For even when we came into Macedonia, our flesh had no rest, but we were afflicted in everything; without were fightings, within were fears.
7:6**But He who comforts those who are downcast, that is, God, comforted us by the coming of Titus;

Whereas in an outwardly very negative situation, Paul was comforted by the presence of God to stay and persevere.

Just find where you have rest in your spirit, and don't care too much for the outward difficulties. The Lord grace you.

 

[jean]

I can identify with that cerebus. I was married for 22 years and became a Christian. My husband was furious as he was an atheist. I had no choice...I had found what I had been searching for and needed and I had this wonderful peace. God's grace in my marriage has been phenomenal, 41 years married now, my walk with the Lord has deepened and my husband...well...he did attend church for a while but...I still pray but will not give up my commitment to the Lord and my husband accepts now my church commitments thankfully. All the best to you, byHisgrace indeed!

 

[Coconut]

Joining a church is a commitment and it is not something you make with a light heart.It is a serious one before God. It is, to me, a marriage. You are joining in a solid solemn oath of commitment/marriage that you will love, honor, obey, receive instruction, follow, tithe and forever become one with that church...before God, until the time that or if God moves you to another are where you will no longer be able to faithfully attend and serve (essentially) equal to the death of a spouse) upon which you will have to find another one in faith.

This is absolutely unscriptural. (no part of this quote is commanded anywheres in scripture) If you LIVE by the Bible, then you know you are already a member of Christs Body, and already joined to your husband, and there is no other joining, or committment, or oaths that the scripture speaks of.


Eph 5:22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord.
Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior.
Eph 5:24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her,
Eph 5:26 that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word,
Eph 5:27 so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.
Eph 5:28 In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.
Eph 5:29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church,
Eph 5:30 because we are members of his body.
Eph 5:31 "Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh."
Eph 5:32 This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church.
Eph 5:33 However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.

 

[jiggyfly]

Good post Coconut and I want to add one thing, Live and walk by the HolySpirit. So many today walk according to what someone else has taught or said without confirming it in the scriptures let alone HolySpirit. The OP is an example of this, no offence to ByHisGrace ( I'm sure you were just reciprocating what you have been taught).

 

[byhisgrace]

thanks for the replies...I do appreciate any input.
ok, here's what I would like to know...
If a wife is feeling drawn by the Lord to do something (just put anything in here), and husband says, "no", whether or not husband is saved, lost, believer, non believer...whatever... is wife supposed to obey husband in this? In ALL things?

and I do understand we are all members of his body when we accept Jesus, and you don't HAVE to join any other body of believers at all.
However, if you are feeling pulled to this place and you feel led to help and work in this place (be a teacher), and this feels like your home what then? Just attend? I don't know.
When I am there, I feel like this is home. I feel drawn there. I don't ever want to leave. My soul feels at rest there. I'd rather be there than my own house.
so, if husband doesn't mind if I go...but doesn't want us to get too involved in things...than I should go and be lukewarm and not get "involved" in things?
I WANT to go under the bridge and minister to, feed and clothe the homeless.
I WANT to send clothes, food and money to Jamaica for the orphanages there
I WANT to pray with and minister to the lost, dieing and broken. I want to help the addicts.
there are so many things to get involved in at my church, and I can do all these without joining, but what I am asking is this...everything that is good, and I feel led to do, if husband says no, I'm supposed to NOT do it?
I still ache in my heart for NOT doing some of what I feel I should have been doing, but husband doesn't want me to be involved in.
It's like, yeah, you can praise....just not too much. Yeah, sing...but not too loud. Yeah, go to church...just don't get too involved. Love God...just not too much that it changes your life...
I don't know....
I have to go to work, but I will check it out in the morning.
thanks for replying

 

[cerebus]

Amen Jean

The case of Ananias and Sapphira (Acts 5:1-11) shows quite clearly that a wife should not follow her husband in unrighteous matters.

But as far as spiritual seeking - I know cases of sisters who have been married to an unbeliever all their lives, but they have a spirit of absolute consecration. They are very restricted in what they can do because they must take their husband as their head, but they are prevailing and overcoming before the Lord. They especially have an indispensable ministry in prayer - fighting before the throne for the Lord's move and interests.

By the same token, should the believers in atheistic countries not meet because it is against the law? Of course not - they suffer and die for the Lord, because they must follow the Lord at all cost.

Revelation 14:4**These are they who have not been defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are they who follow the Lamb wherever He may go. These were purchased from among men as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.

But having said that, there is a limit. You cannot live in deception towards your husband who is your God-ordained head. So again I don't have a clear answer for you, but only certain principles.

 

[Coconut]

Sister there is nothing wrong with those aspirations, but you have your priorities all wrong.

You say you desire to be a teacher, yet you skimmed over the scripture
as it applys to you, (first) with a "yes BUT..."

Read this again:Eph 5:22 "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord."

This does not say play tug-of-war with your husband so you can serve the Lord, rather serve your husband as you would serve the Lord.

The problem seems to be, you see your serving your husband "as to the Lord" as something second class to what you "could" be doing for the Lord.

Lets examine that. If you start looking at everything you do for your husband as something you are doing for Christ...how will it change your perspective? Will you stop looking at your husband as someone who is holding you back from all you "could" be doing for God? A divided heart creates a divided home. The home is Gods greatest institute, and you seem to think the "church" and its mission(s) are. You are looking out your window, and saying "in that building over there is my calling" when you are standing right in the center of your calling. Every place you go, and everything you do, and everyone outside your home is secondary to being a wife and mother. (or for the men reading, a husband and father)

Jiggyfly has reminded you of the most important thing, the Holy Spirit is within you. He is your teacher and guide, your bread when you are hungry, everything you need to live as a christian, you do not have to seek Him elsewhere (as wonderful as fellowship can be) You can "vow" to go to 'church' everytime the doors open, but if you make "going" and the "doing" the be-it-all and end all of your walk with God, you will have missed what is vital to your spiritual life. Your statement here indicates you are depending on the "going" and the "doing" for your vitality, instead of the Holy Spirit.

"I still ache in my heart for NOT doing some of what I feel I should have been doing..."

What should you be doing?
Tit 2:3 Older women likewise are to be reverent in behavior, not slanderers or slaves to much wine. They are to teach what is good, and so train the young women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled, pure, working at home, kind, and submissive to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be reviled.

I`m not saying its not great to go to fellowship, and enjoy the blessings of it, and offer your talents as you are able, but I am saying, if you start looking at your husband "as" the Lord, its going to change your perspective.

You cannot bless the Lord Jesus Christ more, (or offer Him anything greater) than when you submit to your husband "as to the Lord" and bless your husband (thus blessing the Lord) with your willingness to be content, and serve him with gladness and an undivided heart, and stop looking elsewhere for fullfillment as a woman of God.

The pastor/preacher is not your husband, the 'church' is not your husband, and you are unfaithful to God and your husband if you are seeking the glory and the praise you will get from people, by serving them instead of your husband.

There are women reading this that are going to say, "Yes BUT, you dont know my husband, he is nothing like Christ"

1Pe 3:1 Likewise, wives, be subject to your own husbands, so that even if some do not obey the word, they may be won without a word by the conduct of their wives, when they see your respectful and pure conduct.

1Ti 6:6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.

 

[byhisgrace]

great posts...thank you.
you've made some awesome points.
and I guess it boils down to that, doesn't it.
couple things tho. I do not seek the praise of people. I don't want that. that is not my goal. I want to please the Lord. I want to hear well done from Him and Him alone. If my only service to Him is to serve my husband...so be it. But if I feel drawn to do something and it presents itself and husband does not forbid it, why not do it? If husband does forbid it, I don't.
I've been with husband for 16 years and I have ALWAYS been submissive to him. No matter what it was. When he says work, I work, when he says stay home, I stay home. when he says jump, I jump. And I have always tried to be content and made the best of any situation we were in. When we were homeless or now when God graced us with a home. Always he is the head, always he is obeyed, always he is respected and served. I have no resentment toward him, or take any lordship with him, and I only tell you this so you will maybe understand me more...
I am not highhanded, I am probably one of the most humble people you would ever meet, trying to treat people as Jesus would. Even though husband wouldn't work for 4years straight and I had to beg to go work so we wouldn't be homeless with 3 kdis again, and my working led to buying the home he wanted, I hold nothing against him and he is still my head, the boss, the leader. I have ALWAYS followed him.
But, what if husband will not step up and take the lead?
If husband is suicidal, pessimistic, talks down about people constantly, gives up and doesn't want to DO anything? What then?
I still serve him and love him. My desire has always been to my husband...
I don't have to join the church. I can be helper like I've been. I just feel like since the Lord is thrusting teaching at me, because I have been the teacher on sundays when the teacher either doesn't show up or is grossly unprepared and says on Sunday, you'll have to do it, and I feel like I can't do it, but when it's being done, it is awesome, it feels like it is what I am supposed to be doing, but unless I am a member it can't be. I suppose it can just go on like it's been. Without a problem, until husband either finds a church for us, or comes with us or not.
Internet anonymity and desperately seeking an answer breed boldness and confidence normally not present.
thank you again coconut and cerebus and jean and jiggyfly.

 

[Coconut]

Sister, I see your tone changed from your first post to the last, why is that? It seems to me 'thou dost protest too much' lol ...but anyways...
It is entirely possible, (and we only have to look at the climbing divorce rate amoung 'christians' as proof) to be submitted to ones husband, in body but not in spirit. The same applys to hubands of course.
Wether you realize it or not, you words here seem do show roots of bitterness towards your husband...

It's like, yeah, you can praise....just not too much. Yeah, sing...but not too loud. Yeah, go to church...just don't get too involved. Love God...just not too much that it changes your life...

You might ask how I can say that...I can because I have been there...
and know bitterness creeps up on us so slowly we dont even see it in ourselves until its too late...bitterness grows into rebellion ...and thats where the trouble lies...

Heb 12:15 See to it that no one fails to obtain the grace of God; that no "root of bitterness" springs up and causes trouble, and by it many become defiled;

If I am honest I will have to admit that I am afraid that once making this decision it is may cause the natural things in my life to have total "unpeace" for a while. But I guess, it's what is supposed to happen when you really let go and Let God. Maybe I've never turned it all over and completely followed Him afraid of where it will take me and what will happen in my home life.

I was concerned when I read what you said above, and I was trying to address that in my responses. I have tried to say, and do say, for the benefit of other women who may be reading, and seeking the same answers as you, if your "feelings" about Gods will for your life (even if based on worthy aspirations) do, or have the potential to cause "unpeace" or "upset your home life" then its time to check your feelings against the Word.

what I am asking is this...everything that is good, and I feel led to do, if husband says no, I'm supposed to NOT do it?

Let me be more direct and give the short answer to this question.

NO you are not supposed to do it.

If God wants a married man or woman to do something, then it is my belief and understanding, according to the Word (which is what you asked for and I attempted to share with you) that God will bring the spouse into agreement with that by His Spirit. Thats where patience comes in to play..

The writer of Hebrews commended the readers for all they were doing...and then added...

Heb 10:35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Blessings

 

[Truedawn]

Hi BHG, Greetings in the Lord. I have read your thread, the replies and found it interesting to think about. I will be praying for you and your husband.

Coconut, that last post was very helpful to me on a couple of the points you made. Thank you for writing. Waiting for four years (for our unity) is where I am at for our house getting repaired with my husband. Silly as it sounds (not as big as other topics here for sure) your words were an encouragement to me to keep on waiting. Sometimes it's hard. I trust that God knows what's best for us. And He is busy doing stuff even if I don't see it in our lives and hearts. So I will wait on. Thank you, again.

 

[Laudite]

Hi ByHisGrace- I have a couple of thoughts I thought I might share.

First, acknowledging that I'm just reading a post, it looks to me like perhaps there are more important issues that are affecting your church going. I can certainly sympathize with a love for that gospel sound. (Gospel describes a wide variety of music, but as a bluegrass banjo player we'd refer to the sacred music as the gospel sound.) Of course, as an Episcopalian I don't really much encounter that sort of music in church. Anglican music has its own strong appeal, and luckily for me my bluegrass is more or less handed down from my grandfather. His experience in very rural Alabama only really organized services around revivals (because people were so few and far between) and so bluegrass gospel is really more of a music thing than an every week at church thing. Anyway, I have to tell you that your description of your husband does not sound like he is at all well. The interwebz is not a great place for this sort of advice, but I can tell you from personal experience that suicidal thoughts are a big warning sign and not a thing to be ignored. If that's the case the best thing you could ever do is to help him find help, and professional help. A good place to start might be your church, or if not your doctor can help you find someone. It's not an easy road, and you can only help him to decide to find help, but its the most loving thing you could ever do. You'll have to determine the urgency of this yourself- but if you believe that he is a danger to himself (or others) you need to act. Ephesians is good advice- but remember that it describes a moral godly life, and not absolute imperatives. After all, did not Christ, when confronted by the Pharisees for healing on the Sabbath, say (Matthew 12:11-12) "And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift [it] out? How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days." I think that Christ would say that not following an ill husband, like not refraining from work on the sabbath, is justified by a manifestly more important need. Nor, I should think, ought you allow the blind to lead the blind, lest you both fall in the ditch.

As to the matter of church membership, it sounds to me like while you need a decision as to whether you join, what you really want is for you and your husband to go together. I would say that perhaps the Spirit does lead your heart in the proper direction, and that you should maintain hope (as well as thought and prayer) as to that happening- and work to bring down the obstacles to that. In the meantime, I'd suggest that you pray on it, and allow God to guide your heart. Ephesians is not a command to endure tyranny. It is easy to read 'submit' and gloss over the mystery of Christ as head of his church. However, this relationship forms the entire substance of that command! Christ does not lead the church into false things, and is in every case obedient to the will of the Father. Thus obeying every command of a husband who does not submit himself to God is not being led by your husband as the church is led by Christ. If you truly feel that God calls you to teach, then answer his command joyfully. Much scripture and martyrs show (see the above acts) that although the father and husband have authority, there is a higher Father whose commands are not guaranteed to accord with those of the man, but whose Authority is infinitely greater. I 'm sure I must misunderstand some of Coconuts posts, but this talk of family as God's number one institution, which seems to me to be directly contradicted by the hierarchy that Paul establishes in Ephesians, sounds dangerously close to inserting the husband as an intercessor between God and women. Perhaps ya'll might clear that up for me?

 

[cerebus]

It does sound as though you have some bitterness towards your husband. Not that I could blame you in your situation, but several times in your posts there is a flavor that you have just about reached your limit of tolerance with him, and while perhaps you genuinely want to serve the Lord, there is some kind of resentment towards your husband which should be dealt with properly.

I know a sister in our locality who has been married to an unbeliever for I guess 50 years now. And he drinks, and constantly persecutes her for her faith. She testified that she used to hate words in the Bible like Ephesians 5 because she could not submit herself to such a man who wasn't worthy to be submitted to.

But as she went on the Lord showed her how to learn to enjoy His all sufficient grace in her situation. She testifies that she learned that even to suffer under her husband has become sweet to her in the Lord. And she is a person full of Christ.

But she still serves the Lord in every possible way she can. Her husband allows her - and like the shameless woman before the judge, I think she often bothers him to allow her. I don't know whether it is right or not, but my feeling is that it's ok. Her husband doesn't forbid her from serving the Lord - he only mocks her for it, which I suppose is the cross for her.

But hasn't your situation purified your heart? Hasn't it brought you to depend on the Lord in a desperate way? That is His entire purpose.
Anyway grace to you dear sister.

 

[naomigenesis]

Pray harder. No one except the Holy Spirit of God can touch your husband's heart. will continue to pray for you and your family. God blessed.