Unsaved Christians

[B-A-C]

Who are these people who are calling Jesus "Lord" and doing miracles in His name?

Matt 7:21; "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Matt 7:22; "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
Matt 7:23; "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

Who are these false Christs? How do you know the Christ you are following is the right one?

Matthew 24:24(AMP) For false Christs and false prophets will arise, and they will show great signs and wonders so as to deceive and lead astray, if possible, even the elect (God's chosen ones).
(ASV) For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
(GNB) For false Messiahs and false prophets will appear; they will perform great miracles and wonders in order to deceive even God's chosen people, if possible.
(GW) False messiahs and false prophets will appear. They will work spectacular, miraculous signs and do wonderful things to deceive, if possible, even those whom God has chosen.
(HCSB) False messiahs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
(ISV) because false messiahs and false prophets will appear and display great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
(KJV) For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
(MSG) Fake Messiahs and lying preachers are going to pop up everywhere. Their impressive credentials and dazzling performances will pull the wool over the eyes of even those who ought to know better.
(NAS77) "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.
(NASB) "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.
(NIrV) False Christs and false prophets will appear. They will do great signs and miracles. They will try to fool God's chosen people if possible.
(NIV) For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
(NLT) For false messiahs and false prophets will rise up and perform great signs and wonders so as to deceive, if possible, even God's chosen ones.

Notice the verses above don't say it's impossible for people to be deceived, in fact it says it IS possible for them to be deceived. In fact the next two verses go on to say...

Matt 24:25; "Behold, I have told you in advance.
Matt 24:26; "So if they say to you, 'Behold, He is in the wilderness,' do not go out, or, 'Behold, He is in the inner rooms,' do not believe them.

There are of course people in the world who do not believe in Jesus, or if there was a man named Jesus, he wasn't God or the Son of God.
But what about people who do believe in Jesus? Or at least "a version" of Jesus. Is everyone who thinks they are a Christian actually saved?

Mark 13:22; for false Christs and false prophets will arise, and will show signs and wonders, in order to lead astray, if possible, the elect.

What is this false knowledge some profess?

1 Tim 6:20; O Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, avoiding worldly and empty chatter and the opposing arguments of what is falsely called "knowledge"--
1 Tim 6:21; which some have professed and thus gone astray from the faith. Grace be with you.

Who are these false teachers? Are they in the world today?

2 Pet 2:1; But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.
2 Pet 2:2; Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned;
2 Pet 2:3; and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.
2 Pet 2:9; then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment,
2 Pet 2:10; and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority. Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties,
2 Pet 2:12; But these, like unreasoning animals, born as creatures of instinct to be captured and killed, reviling where they have no knowledge, will in the destruction of those creatures also be destroyed,
2 Pet 2:13; suffering wrong as the wages of doing wrong. They count it a pleasure to revel in the daytime. They are stains and blemishes, reveling in their deceptions, as they carouse with you,
2 Pet 2:14; having eyes full of adultery that never cease from sin, enticing unstable souls, having a heart trained in greed, accursed children;
2 Pet 2:15; forsaking the right way, they have gone astray, having followed the way of Balaam, the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
2 Pet 2:17; These are springs without water and mists driven by a storm, for whom the black darkness has been reserved.
2 Pet 2:18; For speaking out arrogant words of vanity they entice by fleshly desires, by sensuality, those who barely escape from the ones who live in error,
2 Pet 2:19; promising them freedom while they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by what a man is overcome, by this he is enslaved.

I think some of the largest churches are led by these people. Yet they think they are saved.

Eph 4:14; As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming;

2 Tim 4:3; For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,
2 Tim 4:4; and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.

I personally believe there are many of these churches out there, with not only false teachings, but actually following "false" Jesus's.
How can people be this blind? Because they don't really want to change. They want eternal salvation, but they want to keep on living like they were before they knew
anything about Jesus.

1 Tim 6:3; If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness,
1 Tim 6:4; he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions,
1 Tim 6:5; and constant friction between men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain.

Jude 1:4; For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

 

[grandmamary1219]

How can I detect a false conversion?

This is a question that is addressed quite well at GotQuestions.

It is always good for us to examine ourselves to be sure we are in the faith! 2 Corinthians 13:5

 

[james1523]

In churches the most common "false Christ" I come across is the new age or "cosmic" Christ, typically pictured against a background of stars or the universe, an attractive looking fellow with blue eyes and long hair (despite the Bible saying he was average looking). Sometimes he looks rather Hindu looking, and I've seen these types of portraits of Christ in some churches. But this is more of a false idea about the true Christ, than a false Christ.
I would think that the actually false Christ's and Messiahs are quite obvious, those cult leaders who claim to be resurrected Jesus etc. Look up "list of people claiming to be Jesus" on Google and there are many of them.
Actually following a false Christ is different to believing errors about the true Christ. Just because a person may not have all their doctrine figured out yet, or they believe some things that are untrue about Christ (e.g. that he had blonde hair and was 6 feet tall), doesn't automatically mean they follow a false Christ.

 

[RJ]

How can I detect a false conversion?

This is a question that is addressed quite well at GotQuestions.

It is always good for us to examine ourselves to be sure we are in the faith! 2 Corinthians 13:5

• First and fore most, detecting seems to be very hard for no one truly knows what is in the heart of confessing Christians than God alone.
• Saying that, I think one sure fire way is if a person , who calls themselves a Christian, is unrepentant for any sin.Of course we all sin to some degree and in need of God's continued Grace but true conversion is to, now have a repentant and regenerated heart and hate the sin.

Here is a non-all inclusive list of the results of conversion:

• REPENTS & BELIEVES THE GOSPEL
• THEY HAVE A HUMBLE HEART -
• GOD'S WORD (SEED) FALLS ON "GOOD GROUND"
• THEY ARE BROKEN & MOURN OVER THEIR SIN
• THERE IS A HUNGER & DISCIPLINE TO: READ, STUDY, SHARE, or TEACH GOD'S WORD
• THEY ARE OBEYING GOD'S WORD—
• OUT OF A LOVE FOR JESUS THEY ARE FORSAKING SIN & DO NOT PRACTICE SIN
• THEY ARE SURRENDERING ALL TO JESUS
• THEY PASSIONATELY LOVE JESUS & ARE CONFORMING DAILY TO THE IMAGE OF JESUS
• THEY HAVE A SERVANT'S HEART & LOVE OTHER BELIEVERS
• THEY SEPARATE THEMSELVES FROM THE THINGS OF THIS WORLD & DO NOT COMPROMISE
• THEY ARE "BORN AGAIN", AND THEY SHOW EVIDENCE OF A NEW NATURE
• THEY OVERCOME SATAN'S LIES, TEMPTATIONS, AND ANYTHING CONTRARY TO GOD'S WORD
• THEY ARE ENDURING HARDSHIPS, TRIALS, TESTINGS, AND PERSECUTIONS FOR JESUS THEY ARE PURSUING & GROWING IN HOLINESS
• THEY ARE GROWING IN THE GRACE & THE KNOWLEDGE OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST THEY FEAR GOD & TURN AWAY FROM EVIL
• THEY ARE DENYING SELF & DAILY FOLLOWING JESUS— AND ARE NOT ASHAMED OF JESUS
• THEY'RE READY, WAITING, AND ANTICIPATING THE SUDDEN & SOON RETURN OF JESUS CHRIST THEY'RE PRODUCTIVE & BEAR MUCH FRUIT BY GIVING JESUS

 

[B-A-C]

All good replies, the Bible also gives us some clues as how to know.

John 13:35; "By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."

Matt 21:43; "Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people, producing the fruit of it.

Matt 7:16; "You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?
Matt 7:20; "So then, you will know them by their fruits.

1 Tim 5:24; The sins of some men are quite evident, going before them to judgment; for others, their sins follow after.

Rev 2:20; 'But I have this against you, that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, and she teaches and leads My bond-servants astray so that they commit acts of immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols.

It seems it will even be "held against us" that we tolerate false teachers. I wonder sometimes if we tolerate false teachers? Even here on TJ?

Tit 1:10; For there are many rebellious men, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision,
Tit 1:11; who must be silenced because they are upsetting whole families, teaching things they should not teach for the sake of sordid gain.

Rev 2:14; 'But I have a few things against you, because you have there some who hold the teaching of Balaam, who kept teaching Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols and to commit acts of immorality.
Rev 2:15; 'So you also have some who in the same way hold the teaching of the Nicolaitans.

 

[DHC]

Hello B-A-C.

I noticed within the thread that you posted a section with a heading, 'Who are these false teachers?'
and 'Are they in the world today'. You then referenced two verses in Peter's letter (2 Peter 2:1-2).
Which I will quote below so that you can read these two verses again.

2 Pet 2:1; But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you,
who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift
destruction upon themselves.
2 Pet 2:2; Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned;

The first verse is straight forward enough to understand, the issue concerns the second verse.

Here is the part of the sentence that seems to generate an issue. It appears that Peter is saying
that these false prophets and false teachers, who will behave or have a degree of sensuality.
Hence 'many' will follow their sensuality!

The meaning of sensuality according to the dictionary.

Sensuality
the enjoyment, expression, or pursuit of physical, especially sexual pleasure.

So in general these false prophets and teachers are promoting pleasure in general but sexual pleasure specifically.

Would you be kind enough to explain what this verse is saying to us?

 

[simpleservant]

Hello B-A-C.

I noticed within the thread that you posted a section with a heading, 'Who are these false teachers?'
and 'Are they in the world today'. You then referenced two verses in Peter's letter (2 Peter 2:1-2).
Which I will quote below so that you can read these two verses again.

The first verse is straight forward enough to understand, the issue concerns the second verse.

Here is the part of the sentence that seems to generate an issue. It appears that Peter is saying
that these false prophets and false teachers, who will behave or have a degree of sensuality.
Hence 'many' will follow their sensuality!

The meaning of sensuality according to the dictionary.

Sensuality
the enjoyment, expression, or pursuit of physical, especially sexual pleasure.

So in general these false prophets and teachers are promoting pleasure in general but sexual pleasure specifically.

Would you be kind enough to explain what this verse is saying to us?

DHC,

I may be able to hopefully help a little here, and give an explanation to your question. The Greek word you are referring to in the verse means "lust, excess, lavishness, shamelessness". The next verse, 2 Peter 2:3 goes on to define this. It says that their greed(desires) will look to exploit us. Peter is telling us that they twist and use God's Word for their own purpose, for their own desires. They will not seek to glorify God, but look to bring glory to themselves. Unfortunately, this is something we see being done in many of our churches today, and by many who claim to profess the Word of God. And unfortunately, many have not took heed to Peter's warning, as we see many sleep today as these voices grow stronger. When we do nothing, and allow these voices to continue to speak, we allow many to be led astray. This is why it is so important that the Church again find its' voice, and speak loudly to the Truth of God's Word. If we, the Church, do not, then we will one day have to answer for our "nothingness".

Hope this helps!

 

[B-A-C]

1 Cor 5:11; But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one.

We are told don't even eat with these people.

2 Jn 1:10; If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting;
2 Jn 1:11; for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds.

Simply by greeting them and welcoming them into our houses we are guilty.

 

[Dave M]

Simply by greeting them and welcoming them into our houses we are guilty.

I was listening to sermon the other day talking about this, especially in light of the cults that coming knocking on our doors so friendly and clean cut looking. He was saying only talk to them on the front steps if you want to engage with them about the truth, never invite them into your house. He gave scripture as you do to back that up, but he went further to say it sets a bad example for the neighbors to think you are welcoming these people in your house. Your neighbors might not even know they are cults and think they are like you just a Christian.

This is a great subject and should be discussed more, because I think also effect the relationships we have or maybe we should not have with people claiming to be Christians but sure seem not be, seems I have new eyes to spot this pretty easily now adays, but then again I dont want to be judgemental, would love some thoughts on how some people handle this.. @Dovegiven , @B-A-C , @Chad4Him , @Sue D. , @Bendito , @KingJ , @Christ4Ever , @amadeus2 @Fragrant Grace @Wired 4 Fishen

freinds that claim to be Christian, but you really dont think they by the way they live, I am struggling with this.

 

[Chad4Him]

I was listening to sermon the other day talking about this, especially in light of the cults that coming knocking on our doors so friendly and clean cut looking. He was saying only talk to them on the front steps if you want to engage with them about the truth, never invite them into your house. He gave scripture as you do to back that up, but he went further to say it sets a bad example for the neighbors to think you are welcoming these people in your house. Your neighbors might not even know they are cults and think they are like you just a Christian.

This is a great subject and should be discussed more, because I think also effect the relationships we have or maybe we should not have with people claiming to be Christians but sure seem not be, seems I have new eyes to spot this pretty easily now adays, but then again I dont want to be judgemental, would love some thoughts on how some people handle this.. @Dovegiven , @B-A-C , @Chad4Him , @Sue D. , @Bendito , @KingJ , @Christ4Ever , @amadeus2 @Fragrant Grace @Wired 4 Fishen

freinds that claim to be Christian, but you really dont think they by the way they live, I am struggling with this.

When I see people drive up and I have a pretty good idea which "denomination" they are promoting and what they will be pushing, I try to be prepared, not to fight, but to have an answer. I meet them outside. I try to be friendly and assure them that yes, I believe the Bible and I am a child of God. I try to point to Christ as the answer when they try to sidetrack the discussion into their talking points. They usually don't stay long.

As far as "friends that claim to be Christian but don't seem to be living it".. That is something I would like to hear more on. If we take the tenor of the scriptures "do not even eat with such a person" does that mean, in today's context, that you don't socialize a lot with them or that you are seen to be "one of their group?" I'd like to hear thoughts.

 

[Bendito]

Who are these people who are calling Jesus "Lord" and doing miracles in His name?

Matt 7:21; "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Matt 7:22; "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
Matt 7:23; "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

Who are these false Christs? How do you know the Christ you are following is the right one?

Matthew 24:24(AMP) For false Christs and false prophets will arise, and they will show great signs and wonders so as to deceive and lead astray, if possible, even the elect (God's chosen ones).
(ASV) For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
(GNB) For false Messiahs and false prophets will appear; they will perform great miracles and wonders in order to deceive even God's chosen people, if possible.
(GW) False messiahs and false prophets will appear. They will work spectacular, miraculous signs and do wonderful things to deceive, if possible, even those whom God has chosen.
(HCSB) False messiahs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
(ISV) because false messiahs and false prophets will appear and display great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
(KJV) For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
(MSG) Fake Messiahs and lying preachers are going to pop up everywhere. Their impressive credentials and dazzling performances will pull the wool over the eyes of even those who ought to know better.
(NAS77) "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.
(NASB) "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.
(NIrV) False Christs and false prophets will appear. They will do great signs and miracles. They will try to fool God's chosen people if possible.
(NIV) For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
(NLT) For false messiahs and false prophets will rise up and perform great signs and wonders so as to deceive, if possible, even God's chosen ones.

Notice the verses above don't say it's impossible for people to be deceived, in fact it says it IS possible for them to be deceived. In fact the next two verses go on to say...

Matt 24:25; "Behold, I have told you in advance.
Matt 24:26; "So if they say to you, 'Behold, He is in the wilderness,' do not go out, or, 'Behold, He is in the inner rooms,' do not believe them.

There are of course people in the world who do not believe in Jesus, or if there was a man named Jesus, he wasn't God or the Son of God.
But what about people who do believe in Jesus? Or at least "a version" of Jesus. Is everyone who thinks they are a Christian actually saved?

Mark 13:22; for false Christs and false prophets will arise, and will show signs and wonders, in order to lead astray, if possible, the elect.

What is this false knowledge some profess?

1 Tim 6:20; O Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, avoiding worldly and empty chatter and the opposing arguments of what is falsely called "knowledge"--
1 Tim 6:21; which some have professed and thus gone astray from the faith. Grace be with you.

Who are these false teachers? Are they in the world today?

2 Pet 2:1; But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.
2 Pet 2:2; Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned;
2 Pet 2:3; and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.
2 Pet 2:9; then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment,
2 Pet 2:10; and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority. Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties,
2 Pet 2:12; But these, like unreasoning animals, born as creatures of instinct to be captured and killed, reviling where they have no knowledge, will in the destruction of those creatures also be destroyed,
2 Pet 2:13; suffering wrong as the wages of doing wrong. They count it a pleasure to revel in the daytime. They are stains and blemishes, reveling in their deceptions, as they carouse with you,
2 Pet 2:14; having eyes full of adultery that never cease from sin, enticing unstable souls, having a heart trained in greed, accursed children;
2 Pet 2:15; forsaking the right way, they have gone astray, having followed the way of Balaam, the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
2 Pet 2:17; These are springs without water and mists driven by a storm, for whom the black darkness has been reserved.
2 Pet 2:18; For speaking out arrogant words of vanity they entice by fleshly desires, by sensuality, those who barely escape from the ones who live in error,
2 Pet 2:19; promising them freedom while they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by what a man is overcome, by this he is enslaved.

I think some of the largest churches are led by these people. Yet they think they are saved.

Eph 4:14; As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming;

2 Tim 4:3; For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,
2 Tim 4:4; and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.

I personally believe there are many of these churches out there, with not only false teachings, but actually following "false" Jesus's.
How can people be this blind? Because they don't really want to change. They want eternal salvation, but they want to keep on living like they were before they knew
anything about Jesus.

1 Tim 6:3; If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness,
1 Tim 6:4; he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions,
1 Tim 6:5; and constant friction between men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain.

Jude 1:4; For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

My initial reaction was "Unsaved Christians" That's an oxymoron...There is not such thing as an unsaved Christian. A Christian is a follower, a disciple of Jesus. So that person would be saved. Simple as that. Then I read the first verse here Matt 7:21 and its Oh. Ok The verse is being applied to a different scenario...Those people who, like many, expect to earn their way into heaven. Salvation is not by works but by the Empowering Presence of God in a persons life. A person doing the doing without even asking God what He wants...He worked for the church all his life, even to the neglect of his health....why? Did he submit to Gods will? Did he come into the kingdom in the only way Jesus said one is to come in? No, he didn't. He came in his way. Then at the last he gets bounced because he is not a disciple of Jesus but instead he is simply a religious man. Sad. He never did have a relationship with Jesus. He did not know Jesus and Jesus did not know him.

Who are these false Christs? How do you know the Christ you are following is the right one?

Your spirit knows the Real Jesus, at least it knows when it is following the real Jesus. The problem comes up when a person tries to understand the Spirit from an intellectual angle...but the intellect does not understand or accept spiritual things.Rom 8:9 But you, you do not identify with your old nature but with the Spirit — provided the Spirit of God is living inside you, for anyone who doesn’t have the Spirit of the Messiah doesn’t belong to him. If this man had at least listened to his own spirit instead of his intellect he would have known he was missing it. The false christ he was following was 'Works'. It was doctrines of demons, it was Churchianity teachings. Doctrines of demons, Churchianity is so much easier to follow because it is intellectual... That's the way we've been brought up unfortunately. We have to disciple ourselves to be disciples. Disciples of a God of Spirit and truth. We need to believe the Word! who put His Word into a book for us. And we need to believe it as it says it.

 

[Bendito]

How can I detect a false conversion?

This is a question that is addressed quite well at GotQuestions.

It is always good for us to examine ourselves to be sure we are in the faith! 2 Corinthians 13:5

I would never advise a person to trust God Questions. They spout a lot of DoD themselves, but in this case, the answer is not bad, although verbose to the extreme.

 

[Bendito]

I was listening to sermon the other day talking about this, especially in light of the cults that coming knocking on our doors so friendly and clean cut looking. He was saying only talk to them on the front steps if you want to engage with them about the truth, never invite them into your house. He gave scripture as you do to back that up, but he went further to say it sets a bad example for the neighbors to think you are welcoming these people in your house. Your neighbors might not even know they are cults and think they are like you just a Christian.

This is a great subject and should be discussed more, because I think also effect the relationships we have or maybe we should not have with people claiming to be Christians but sure seem not be, seems I have new eyes to spot this pretty easily now adays, but then again I dont want to be judgemental, would love some thoughts on how some people handle this.. @Dovegiven , @B-A-C , @Chad4Him , @Sue D. , @Bendito , @KingJ , @Christ4Ever , @amadeus2 @Fragrant Grace @Wired 4 Fishen

freinds that claim to be Christian, but you really dont think they by the way they live, I am struggling with this.

Dave, a person should always, always ALWAYS seek the Lord and then DO as he is directed.

 

[B-A-C]

My initial reaction was "Unsaved Christians" That's an oxymoron...There is not such thing as an unsaved Christian. A Christian is a follower, a disciple of Jesus. So that person would be saved. Simple as that. Then I read the first verse here Matt 7:21 and its Oh. Ok The verse is being applied to a different scenario...Those people who, like many, expect to earn their way into heaven. Salvation is not by works

Matt 7:21; is not about people who want to get to heaven by works. It's about people who practice sinning, even though they believe in Jesus.

Matt 7:21; "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Matt 7:22; "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
Matt 7:23; "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

It doesn't depart from me if you ever sinned, it says depart from me... you who "practice" sinning. It doesn't have anything to do with with works.

Also faith without works is dead. Do you think that faith alone can save you? Even the demons believe. Are you willing to recognize you foolish fellow that
faith without works is dead.

The people that had a chance to be a sheep but decided to be goat... because they relied on faith alone will be in for a surprise.
The people that God gave talents to, and they didn't invest them and use them for God's purpose, they will be in for a big surprise also.
The "trees" in the garden that were watered and fertilized by the gardener, but still refused to bear friut, will be in for a big surprise.

 

[B-A-C]

This is a great subject and should be discussed more, because I think also effect the relationships we have or maybe we should not have with people claiming to be Christians but sure seem not be, seems I have new eyes to spot this pretty easily now adays, but then again I dont want to be judgemental, would love some thoughts on how some people handle this.. @Dovegiven , @B-A-C , @Chad4Him , @Sue D. , @Bendito , @KingJ , @Christ4Ever , @amadeus2 @Fragrant Grace @Wired 4 Fishen

I think it's important to separate people who don't claim to be Christians from people who do claim to be Christians.
All these "Christians" who support gay/lesbian lifestyles, will be in for a surprise.
All these "Christians" who support abortion will be in for a surprise.
All these "Christians" who teach there are many ways to God, Jesus isn't the only way, will be in for a big surprise.

We can be friends and have relationships with non-Christians (as long as we don't conform to their lifestyle).
But continuing on in friendships with those who claim to be Christians yet preach against everything Jesus taught, is a dangerous thing.

 

[Br. Bear]

He was saying only talk to them on the front steps if you want to engage with them about the truth, never invite them into your house. He gave scripture as you do to back that up, but he went further to say it sets a bad example for the neighbors to think you are welcoming these people in your house. Your neighbors might not even know they are cults and think they are like you just a Christian.

This is a great subject and should be discussed more, because I think also effect the relationships we have or maybe we should not have with people claiming to be Christians but sure seem not be.

Greetings,

This is a good point to consider regarding the apparent example we can give to neighbors.
I have often invited such people into my house and yet I see how this could spell safety to the neighbors to do the same .

The crunch comes down to loving your neighbor which to me is in this sort of circumstance done by making and taking the time to let your neighbor know to NOT have them into their house and explaining why, while telling them of God's love as revealed in His Son Whom He gave.

I suppose that these sort of proselytizes would have no trouble telling others that they spent an hour or more in Mr Bear's house as a way to get unsuspecting and curious lost lonely souls to accept them in to their home .


Seek the Lord and His glory and His undertaking in these matters and if in doubt, consult the Bible!


Bless you ....><>