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True measure of applying understanding

Copper25

Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2008
Messages
137
Psalm 90:12) So teach us to number our days, that we may apply our hearts unto wisdom.

How often to people fail to see things through more of a perspective that God views things. (Isaiah 55:9) “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.” Now can we comprehend or begin to imagine how God sees things? (Psalm 139:6) “Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain unto it.” Of course not to all that the Almighty knows which is all, but there is one thing that is painfully clear, how much he does not like iniquity, how (1 Peter 3:12) “the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.” Applying (Proverbs 2:2) “thine heart to understanding”, means to start to utilize the word of God and applying it to our lives. Without understanding as such can one prosper? Can this be the reason that the parable on the fig tree that was fruitless and the parable on the sower are so important? (John 8:31) “If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed”, now can one be fruitful without the word? (Mark 4:8) “And other fell on good ground, and did yield fruit that sprang up and increased; and brought forth, some thirty, and some sixty, and some an hundred.” And of course the seed is the word, so no. Now can being friends with the world choke out the word (Mark 4:18-19) “And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word, And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.” So worldly lust, pleasures and riches will choke out the word, so what is acceptable because lust can refer to a whole variety, sexual, materialism, greed, covetousness over any worldly thing, (1 John 2:17) “And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

So then the question is what is the will of God because only that person will have success, (Matthew 7:21) “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” Is God’s will for us to flee from evil, sin, and iniquity, (Deuteronomy 5:29) “O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!” (Psalm 97:10) “Ye that love the Lord, hate evil”, (Amos 5:15) “hate the evil, and love the good”, (Deuteronomy 30:15) “life and good, and death and evil”, notice how evil corresponds with death and good corresponds with life. In a world of confusion the word of God makes it that plan and that simple. (1 Thessalonians 5:21) “prove all things” to see whether they be good or evil and certainly shouldn’t we abstain from evil?

The Lord died for us and was made sin for us, (2 Corinthians 5:21)“For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.” Now Christ was made a curse for us, (Galatians 3:13) “Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree”, he bore our sins, (Isaiah 53:5) “But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.” And gave his life for us, (Romans 8:37) “Nay, in all these things we are more then conquers through him that loved us” and (Galatians 2:20) “I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.” Now do you think that Christ Jesus our Lord died for us to live in our sin that he died for, I think not. (2 Corinthians 5:21)“he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him”, now would Christ support iniquity or the workers of it, (Matthew 7:23) “And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity”, I think not, (Matthew 13:41-42) “The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.” How deadly is an offense!? (Matthew 5:30) “And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.” Again, (Matthew 5:29) “And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.” How important is it not to offend.

(1 John 1:6) “if we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth” and (John 3:21) “he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God” and certainly presumptuous sin and following habitual sin is unacceptable else what would separate one that is hot and passionate for the Lord from a Laodecian-type Christian who is (Revelation 3:17) “poor, and blind, and naked”, who can’t discern right from wrong, good from evil, who for that reason is snared still in the bondage of iniquity, sin, and transgression and does not abide in Christ, but is rejected by him violently in description, (Revelation 3:16) “I will spue thee out of my mouth”. Listen while we are covered by the Lord’s blood, can we continue as acting like a child of disobedience, I think not, and is there any excuse for sin, presumptuous sin because (Proverbs 20:11) “Even a child is known by his doings, whether his work be pure, and whether it be right.” And (John 15:22) “If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin.” And (Acts 17:30) “And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent”, to turn from sin but not to stay in it presumptuously and purposefully and willfully because there is a huge difference between ignorance and purposeful sin and frankly, if one chooses to purposefully stay in sin, stay in iniquity, then that person is choosing perdition because they heed not the exhortation of the bible, which is one of its biggest exhortations, to flee from sin because by and by everyone will be judged by their works, and faith without works is dead, and faith without obedience is dead. Christ blood saved by, but only if one abandons and flees from sin and fleshy ways, and the way of the carnal mind which is willful disobedience and habitual sin, else one is just lukewarm and rejected. Can one live in sin and acknowledge, take up the offer of Christ while choosing to willfully live in sin, I think not. We are not perfect but when people choose to be patronized rather then to heed and fear the warning and the Lord, they choose destruction (Psalm 9:17) “The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.” And who are the wicked but they that refuse to be obedient to the Lord.
 
Hello Copper, in reading your post here and some others you have posted at TJ, it seems that you are very "sin conscious". It seems that you are more focused on sin than God's grace demonstrated in Christ Jesus, and that your posts attempt to make others "sin conscious".

What do you see as a benefit from these posts? I'm curious of your motivation for these posts. What do you trust in for God's acceptance?
 
My reponse

These are meditations that I am lead through by the Holy Ghost. What I am told, that is what I put and as for my trust in God, always for without him what or were would I be, by grace it is and leaning to God prayerfully. Take the meditation, read it, take what you will and want to from it as for me, I take from each one.
 
My Response II

Ephesians 2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Psalm 51:17) The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

Lamentations 3:22-23) It is of the LORD's mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not. They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness.

Now one through obeidence is justified nor by only faith alone James 2:20) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? It is of God's mercy and willingness of forgive us that we have acceptence of him, justified by Christ Jesus and his sacrafice, nothing else but the blood of Christ.
 
Hello Copper, in reading your post here and some others you have posted at TJ, it seems that you are very "sin conscious". It seems that you are more focused on sin than God's grace demonstrated in Christ Jesus, and that your posts attempt to make others "sin conscious".

What do you see as a benefit from these posts? I'm curious of your motivation for these posts. What do you trust in for God's acceptance?

Brother you have finally managed to baffle me completely...only took you a few years or so...haha

What is the problem with a man being "sin conscious" and attempting to make others "sin conscious"?

"Sin" is written about 90+ times by the NT authors, I dont think Copper has surpassed the limit yet lol

Seriously, being sin conscious does`nt negate Grace, it surely must show us all the more our need for Grace!

1Pe 4:10 Each one, as a good manager of God's different gifts, must use for the good of others the special gift he has received from God. Those who preach must preach God's messages;

GNB Php 1:18 It does not matter! I am happy about it---just so Christ is preached in every way possible, whether from wrong or right motives. And I will continue to be happy...
 
For the believer, sin conciousness is fruitless, being focused on our sins will not help us to grow and mature spiritually, but it is a distraction and can motivate people to become works motivated which leads to self righteousness.

Romans 5:20&21
20*God’s law was given so that all people could see how sinful they were. But as people sinned more and more, God’s wonderful kindness became more abundant. 21*So just as sin ruled over all people and brought them to death, now God’s wonderful kindness rules instead, giving us right standing with God and resulting in eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

To be "sin conscious" is the same mindset or thinking as those who were under the law. This is why we see so much mentioned in the scriptures about sin because this was their mindset and it had to be corrected.

Hebrews 9:27&28
27*And just as it is destined that each person dies only once and after that comes judgment, 28*so also Christ died only once as a sacrifice to take away the sins of many people. He will come again but not to deal with our sins again. This time he will bring salvation to all those who are eagerly waiting for him.

So according to this scripture sin is no longer an issue with God, all the sin of the whole world was dealt with at the cross of Christ. God judged our sins and the verdict was guilty, the sentence was death and executed by crucifixion and it fell on His Son. So with that said, to be concerned with sin after having this knowledge brings God's character into question, doesn't it? I am either righteous because of Christ's work on the cross or I am not. Either God's judgement was righteous or it was not. To focus on sin, is to appeal God's judgement.

Colossians 1:19-23
19 For God in all his fullness was pleased to live in Christ, 20*and by him God reconciled everything to himself. He made peace with everything in heaven and on earth by means of his blood on the cross. 21*This includes you who were once so far away from God. You were his enemies, separated from him by your evil thoughts and actions, 22*yet now he has brought you back as his friends. He has done this through his death on the cross in his own human body. As a result, he has brought you into the very presence of God, and you are holy and blameless as you stand before him without a single fault. 23*But you must continue to believe this truth and stand in it firmly. Don’t drift away from the assurance you received when you heard the Good News. The Good News has been preached all over the world, and I, Paul, have been appointed by God to proclaim it.

Here again we see what Christ has done for us on the cross, to be concerned with sin now is to doubt Him as an acceptable sacrifice for sin and to drift away from the assurance of the gospel.

Romans 8:5-8
5*For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6*For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7*Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8*So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

I don't see much difference between carnally minded and sin consciousness. They both are against God and lead to death. The "sin conscious" mind doubts the sufficiency of the blood shed on the cross.
 
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My Response III

I don't see much difference between carnally minded and sin consciousness. They both are against God and lead to death. The "sin conscious" mind doubts the sufficiency of the blood shed on the cross.

This "sin conscious" refers to one's acknowledgment of their sin and this does not imply doubt about Christ sacrifice, but instead when one realizes how hopeless they are, how (Psalm 86:1) "poor and needy" they are and how desperately they need the grace of God, they will do all they can to lean to God and flee from iniquity. Galatians 3:24) "Therefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith." So as we can see, it is the realization that a (Psalm 39:5) "man at his best state is altogether vanity" that will drive a person to Christ but sadly, people don't have what they can't see in their own mind they think they are fit and in fellowship with God but are still dead in iniquity because they have had none to convict them of their sin in their conscience which is the role of the Holy Spirit, to (John 16:8) “reprove the world of sin." but until one comes to the realization of the poor spiritual condition one has, how can one escape to Christ as refuge for and to cover their sin. Blindness creates a liar, (1 John 1:6-7) “If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.” Now if one is in darkness and does not know, then how can one be in the light? And if one is unknowingly in darkness, can they be in the light also? Ignorance (lack of knowledge) is a deadly thing (Hosea 4:6) "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge", notice that one is still accountable for wether they come to the knowledge unleavened and its pure truth whether they know it or not.
 
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This "sin conscious" refers to one's acknowledgment of their sin and this does not imply doubt about Christ sacrifice, but instead when one realizes how hopeless they are, how (Psalm 86:1) "poor and needy" they are and how desperately they need the grace of God, they will do all they can to lean to God and flee from iniquity. Galatians 3:24) "Therefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith." So as we can see, it is the realization that a (Psalm 39:5) "man at his best state is altogether vanity" that will drive a person to Christ but sadly, people don't have what they can't see in their own mind they think they are fit and in fellowship with God but are still dead in iniquity because they have had none to convict them of their sin in their conscience which is the role of the Holy Spirit, to (John 16:8) “reprove the world of sin." but until one comes to the realization of the poor spiritual condition one has, how can one escape to Christ as refuge for and to cover their sin. Blindness creates a liar, (1 John 1:6-7) “If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.” Now if one is in darkness and does not know, then how can one be in the light? And if one is unknowingly in darkness, can they be in the light also? Ignorance (lack of knowledge) is a deadly thing (Hosea 4:6) "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge", notice that one is still accountable for wether they come to the knowledge unleavened and its pure truth whether they know it or not.

Exactly and once you have been brought to Christ, the law's purpose has been fulfilled. Same is so with the consciousness of sin, once you have come to this knowledge the purpose is fulfilled.

So let's clarify who you are addressing with your posts. If your posts are for unbeleivers then I'm ok with that, but I think your posts would be more effective in the "get saved now" thread.
 
My response 4

The purpose of the message that I am led to put by the Holy Spirit can mean different things to different people. Take what you take from it, whether it be a little or a lot as I was saying before, take what you want from it, how you take it and what you take from it is entirely up to you my Friend.
 
Okay Jiggy, I understand your concern now. Remember though, in the first verse you quoted, (Romans 5:20&21) Paul goes on to say[addressing the church]:

Rom 6:10 For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God.
Rom 6:11 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions.
Rom 6:13 Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness.
Rom 6:14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.
Rom 6:15 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!
Rom 6:16 Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed,
Rom 6:18 and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness.


And the writer of Hebrews admonition in the same letter you quoted from (Hebrews 9:27&28) goes on to say [addressing the church]:


Heb 10:26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses.
Heb 10:29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has spurned the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:30 For we know him who said, "Vengeance is mine; I will repay." And again, "The Lord will judge his people."
Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

I dont really see Coppers motive here as being any different than these writers...

Abba Father, there is nothing to fear, if we abide in Him.
 
And it is`nt going to help any if you start talking Swahili jiggy


While I really do understand where you are coming from, and I dont think our views are that different, i`m having some trouble with this statement:

So ... sin is no longer an issue with God, all the sin of the whole world was dealt with at the cross of Christ... So with that said, to be concerned with sin after having this knowledge brings God's character into question, doesn't it?

Having knowledge and understanding of the finished work, surely does`nt mean sin is no longer an "issue", even for the child of God.
If this is true, why did Christ say "Therefore, this is how you should pray: Our Father in heaven...forgive us our sins, as we have forgiven those who have sinned against us."

Are you perhaps trying to say that we dont need to walk around fretting over sin, that we can rest in Christs finished work, and trust Him to show us when we sin, and forgive us our sins (if we repent/turn away from sin)?

Sorry if i`m causing confusion...while trying to unconfuse myself (if you think i`m work, try being me for awhile)
 
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My Response #

Everyone can be frogiven, but how many choose to? Christ our Lord was our atonement and the atonement of the world but unless the world took the Lord's sacrafice and repented, how has is sin not an issue? God gave all NT people a choice, accept the sacrafice of the Lord and repent or the end result of that one that chose him not would likely perish, Luke 13:3) I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.)) Without a true form of repentence can one take up the offering of the Lord, I think not. So unless the whole world repented, sin is a still an issue, Psalm 7:11) God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day. ) Whether it by by forgiveness by Christ or judgment and the wrath of the Almighty, one way or another sin will be dealt with. When the Lord Comes back and after the millennial reign, after the Gog and Magog are destroyed by fire, when the new earth and new heaven is made, then the work and the Mystery of God will be finished and the Curse shall be no more, Revelation 22:3-4) "And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads."
 
I didn't want you think I was ignoring you, but this is my last response for this thread. I see no benefit to argue, debate or reason this out in this thread, we simply do not agree, so I am bowing out and will refrain from anymore response to this thread. Feel free to PM me if you like, God bless.
 
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