Tongue tied

[Lanolin]

I witnessed a discussion between christians today and just wondered if the Bible has any insight to this.

One lady was saying she likes to pray in tongues especially when she doesnt know what to pray for.
But an elder man said that he did not have the gift of tongues even though he had asked for it.

I think the man felt put put out that the lady thought everyone ought to pray in tongues. Then another lady said one time she was praying for someone else and she started praying in tongues without even asking for it, but she doesnt feel like she has to use it all the time, because shes comfortable praying in her own tongue.

What do you think does God give everyone the gift of tongues or not? Should we ask for it if we dont have it, or is it just God gives to us when we need it.

I think it can get contentious when it doesnt need to be. But maybe people boast of this gift too much?

Personally I do sometimes pray in tongues when I dont know what to pray for but dont generally do that in front of others unless the spirit really gives me utterance to do so if theres another person who knows that tongue around...I mean out of courtesy to others. Why speak in tongues if nobody will understand what you are saying and there is no interpreter? I mean in private ok but with others generally no. I mean im not sure what my unknown tongue is exactly but someone else did once, but I dont expect everyone to know it! It was given to me and I didnt ask for it cos I didnt even know what it was at first.

Its more important that we prophesy but I think that some people do need to witness this sign gift they call it to know something spiritual has been birthed if they had never believed God can give them the words before. But maybe others just have faith and have no need of the evidence of tongues to believe, and thats good isnt it? Its not always necessary to speak in tongues especially when you dont know what you are saying! Its more of a witness to others if they know it, not for you..? It doesnt make you more spiritual does it?

I didnt add to this conversation or discussion but it was interesting to hear it. I know it has divided some churches and people get a bit funny about it. (I think).

 

[TippyToe]

I witnessed a discussion between christians today and just wondered if the Bible has any insight to this.

One lady was saying she likes to pray in tongues especially when she doesnt know what to pray for.
But an elder man said that he did not have the gift of tongues even though he had asked for it.

I think the man felt put put out that the lady thought everyone ought to pray in tongues. Then another lady said one time she was praying for someone else and she started praying in tongues without even asking for it, but she doesnt feel like she has to use it all the time, because shes comfortable praying in her own tongue.

What do you think does God give everyone the gift of tongues or not? Should we ask for it if we dont have it, or is it just God gives to us when we need it.

I think it can get contentious when it doesnt need to be. But maybe people boast of this gift too much?

Personally I do sometimes pray in tongues when I dont know what to pray for but dont generally do that in front of others unless the spirit really gives me utterance to do so if theres another person who knows that tongue around...I mean out of courtesy to others. Why speak in tongues if nobody will understand what you are saying and there is no interpreter? I mean in private ok but with others generally no. I mean im not sure what my unknown tongue is exactly but someone else did once, but I dont expect everyone to know it! It was given to me and I didnt ask for it cos I didnt even know what it was at first.

Its more important that we prophesy but I think that some people do need to witness this sign gift they call it to know something spiritual has been birthed if they had never believed God can give them the words before. But maybe others just have faith and have no need of the evidence of tongues to believe, and thats good isnt it? Its not always necessary to speak in tongues especially when you dont know what you are saying! Its more of a witness to others if they know it, not for you..? It doesnt make you more spiritual does it?

I didnt add to this conversation or discussion but it was interesting to hear it. I know it has divided some churches and people get a bit funny about it. (I think).

They sure do, get funny that is.

 

[amadeus2]

I pray to God in an unknown tongue daily. For me it is a necessity, but not everyone is who I am or where I am in God. There is no doubt that sometimes we do not know the best way to pray for a situation. God always does. Yielding our tongue to Him accomplished I believe His purpose. But, it may well be that what is correct or OK for some of us may not be for others. I have known a number of believers who did not talk in tongues as I did, but I have no doubt about their real walk with God.

I believe that say tongue talking is wrong is wrong; but to say that it is an essential without which a person may not be saved would also be wrong.

 

[Lanolin]

I wonder why someone could say without it you cant be saved or is it just kind of implied. If a person is praising and magnifying God in their own tongue is that enough?

The lady I think was under the impression that the man didnt use it, well he couldnt if he was never given it. But then maybe God sees he doesnt need it and always knows what to pray for!

I have learned people can be real touchy about certain things.

Mostly its these three- whether you are single or married. If you are male or female. And the other one is if you speak in tongues or not.

Actually the third is an issue even in the natural because...people ask me if I speak chinese and when i dont they (Because I am not fluent) they dont really want to talk to me, and then other people assume I cant speak english and so dont want to talk to me either!

Im like ok fine lol. And then other people say they cant hear me and im too quiet while they yabbering away on their phones or listening to really loud rock music. Can't win.

 

[B-A-C]

The Pentecostals I know, (I myself could be called a Pentecostal) differentiate between the in-filling of the Holy Spirit, and the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Everyone who is saved has the Holy Spirit. But Pentecostals would say they aren't baptized in the Holy Spirit. They see this as a second event.
No Pentecostal I know believes you "have" to be baptized in the Holy Spirit to be saved. I have heard there are a few that believe otherwise but I have
not met them personally. Tongues is simply "one" of the gifts of the Spirit, but there are several other gifts. Not everyone has every gift.
But Pentecostals would say, why not be baptized in the Holy Spirit? It's like having a driver's license and never driving a car. Or like being married
and never kissing your spouse. It's not an absolute requirement, but why wouldn't you want to?

It's a little like water baptism in that sense. It may not be an absolute requirement, but why wouldn't you want to?

 

[Lanolin]

This elder said he asked for the gift and God didnt give him tongues. So...what do pentes say to that?

I think God gave him other gifts. I dont think its a case that everyone is given it and that if you ask for it you recieve it necessarily because many people DO ask and they arent given. So its not a case like a drivers license and not driving a car...they dont even have a drivers license in the first place. They dont have a spouse so they cant kiss them. Its not a case that they already have it and just dont use it.

But I dont really see infilling and baptism of holy spirit as separate events. I think that confuses the issue.

When you are water baptised ideally you should also be baptised with the holy spirit as well. But sometimes it can occur later. And then theres the baptism of fire...but thats another topic.

I dont think pentecostals would say people arent saved, but they kind of imply that people that arent given the gift just arent using it or dont want it. Maybe they DO want it!

But God doesnt give people what they want I suppose, just what they need.

I mean I did not ask specifically for it, but was given it all the same. So its interesting. How would you feel if everyone around you was boasting of speaking in tongues and you couldnt?

 

[B-A-C]

This elder said he asked for the gift and God didnt give him tongues. So...what do pentes say to that?

We ourselves don't decide what gift we have. The Holy Spirit decides. However, everyone has at least one gift.

1 Cor 12:4; Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit.
1 Cor 12:5; And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord.
1 Cor 12:6; There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons.
1 Cor 12:7; But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.
1 Cor 12:8; For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit;
1 Cor 12:9; to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit,
1 Cor 12:10; and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues.
1 Cor 12:11; But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.

Again, not everyone has every gift.

1 Cor 12:29; All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they?
1 Cor 12:30; All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they?
1 Cor 12:31; But earnestly desire the greater gifts. And I show you a still more excellent way.

But I dont really see infilling and baptism of holy spirit as separate events. I think that confuses the issue.

This is a difficult thing for many to understand. But no one in the Bible received the baptism of the Holy Spirit immediately when they got saved.
Some people had to wait until Jesus went back to heaven.

John 16:7; "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.

John 7:39; But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

But even after Jesus ascended back to heaven, in fact even after the day of Pentecost, most accounts in the Bible say people were saved for a while before receiving the
baptism of the Spirit. In fact, every account.

For example, Paul met these twelve men at Ephesus, they were believers who had already been baptized by John the Baptist.

Acts 19:1; It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples.
Acts 19:2; He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit."
Acts 19:3; And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they said, "Into John's baptism."
Acts 19:4; Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus."
Acts 19:5; When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Acts 19:6; And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying.
Acts 19:7; There were in all about twelve men.

But they did not receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit until Paul laid hands on them and prayed for them to receive it.

It's similar with Cornelius. The first incident of a Gentile receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit. We see he was a believer also.

Acts 10:1; Now there was a man at Caesarea named Cornelius, a centurion of what was called the Italian cohort,
Acts 10:2; a devout man and one who feared God with all his household, and gave many alms to the Jewish people and prayed to God continually.
Acts 10:3; About the ninth hour of the day he clearly saw in a vision an angel of God who had just come in and said to him, "Cornelius!"
Acts 10:4; And fixing his gaze on him and being much alarmed, he said, "What is it, Lord?" And he said to him, "Your prayers and alms have ascended as a memorial before God.

But even though he was already a believer, he hadn't received the baptism of the Holy Spirit yet. Not until he meets Peter.

Acts 10:44; While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message.
Acts 10:45; All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.
Acts 10:46; For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered,
Acts 10:47; "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?"
Acts 10:48; And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days.

It was the same for the disciples and Mary in the upper room on the day of Pentecost. The disciples had been following Jesus for over three years.
But they weren't baptized in the Holy Spirit until after He ascended.

Acts 2:1; When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place.
Acts 2:2; And suddenly there came from heaven a noise like a violent rushing wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting.
Acts 2:3; And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them.
Acts 2:4; And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.

Jesus told the believers they weren't baptized in the Holy Spirit yet. He said it would come later.

Acts 1:5; for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."

John the Baptist also said being baptized with the Holy Spirit would come later.

Matt 3:11; "As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Mark 1:8; "I baptized you with water; but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."

The word "baptized" is past tense. But "He will" is future tense.

Luke 3:16; John answered and said to them all, "As for me, I baptize you with water; but One is coming who is mightier than I, and I am not fit to untie the thong of His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

John 1:33; "I did not recognize Him, but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, 'He upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, this is the One who baptizes in the Holy Spirit.'

The disciples remembered that Jesus said this.

Acts 11:16; "And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.'

In fact Saul (Paul) received the Holy Spirit a few days after his conversion. Jesus met him on the road to Damascus, but he didn't receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit
until he meets Ananias.

Acts 9:4; and he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?"
Acts 9:5; And he said, "Who are You, Lord?" And He said, "I am Jesus whom you are persecuting,
Acts 9:6; but get up and enter the city, and it will be told you what you must do."

Acts 9:9; And he was three days without sight, and neither ate nor drank.

But even though he knew Jesus now, he wasn't baptized in the Holy Spirit until...

Acts 9:17; So Ananias departed and entered the house, and after laying his hands on him said, "Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road by which you were coming, has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit."
Acts 9:18; And immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he regained his sight, and he got up and was baptized;

 

[amadeus2]

I wonder why someone could say without it you cant be saved or is it just kind of implied. If a person is praising and magnifying God in their own tongue is that enough?

The lady I think was under the impression that the man didnt use it, well he couldnt if he was never given it. But then maybe God sees he doesnt need it and always knows what to pray for!

To me, this thing of insisting on my way or the highway in walking with the Lord, is a sign of immaturity. I may be wrong, but what comes to my mind is the charity described in detail in I Corinthians 13. Even though we disagree with a person; even though the person may really be wrong, we need to be slow to speak nay to him.Should we unnecessarily offend our brother? No, while we do need to correct a brother when and if we can, we should be careful not to push them too hard may as that could be worse than simply remaining silent.

Would it ever be wrong for me to say with Apostle Paul?

"I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:" I Cor 14:18

 

[amadeus2]

I dont think pentecostals would say people arent saved, ...

Most don't say that, but I have met too many who do. Even if we did believe that we should be cautious about pressing it on others who don't really understand.

 

[Lanolin]

Thanks brothers It does seem to me the lady was offending the elder and kind of boasting a bit by assuming everyone can speak in tongues. (She attends a different church to the elder).

I dont think you can ask God ...please can I speak in tongues. Cos asking that is as nonsensical as asking can I drink poison and not die. Or Lord can I please pick up snakes.

But you can ask God to be baptised or filled or to know Him more.

Shall I just pray for others in my congregation who have not experienced baptism to be filled?

One of the other elders at this church prayed for this filling for the congregation in the sermon last Sunday so I hope the other elder heard and was filled. I mean some people just need a top up you know.

But i have also heard it said that some people get filled...but then they leak.

 

[amadeus2]

But i have also heard it said that some people get filled...but then they leak.

Rather than "they leak", I would express it as "they overflowed" with the good things of God and those around them were also blessed.

 

[Lanolin]

Hmm a good way of looking at it amadeus...although a bucket with a hole in it isnt much use...?

 

[amadeus2]

Hmm a good way of looking at it amadeus...although a bucket with a hole in it isnt much use...?

Indeed not. If we had to carry water from the well to the house and the distance was too far or the hole too large, how much water would arrive for those in the house? Of course, God is probably providing us with a better bucket than that.

 

[Lanolin]

Well thats why in the bible it says we are sealed does it not?

Ephesians 1:13

 

[amadeus2]

Well thats why in the bible it says we are sealed does it not?

Yes, and the seal will hold if we don't mess with it. No one else can break the seal, but we can. We can step out from under the covering of God. That is what Adam and Eve did in the garden. All they had to do was obey, but they did not they were put on the outside of paradise.