Thoughts on Job

[Dovegiven]

Going through what? The legalities? That would make a book.

Really though....I don't think there is a war going on....At least on the part of fishen and I

OK. Well, good. I'll just conclude my part that in the last chapter God vindicated Job as the only truth teller of the group, howbeit guilty of simple ignorance of how God does things, and relatively powerless. That's still true. We don't know how He does all that. He chastised the friends for not telling truth, told them to bring sacrifices and let Job pray for them. It was all a great lesson for those men. That last chapter reveals why that hedge was around Job in chapter one. The hedge obviously went right back up.
Job 42:7 (KJV)
7 And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.

Today many people go through trials without ending as well as Job's, believing all sorts of false notions about God.

 

[Bendito]

OK. Well, good. I'll just conclude my part that in the last chapter God vindicated Job as the only truth teller of the group, howbeit guilty of simple ignorance of how God does things, and relatively powerless. That's still true. We don't know how He does all that. He chastised the friends for not telling truth, told them to bring sacrifices and let Job pray for them. It was all a great lesson for those men. That last chapter reveals why that hedge was around Job in chapter one. The hedge obviously went right back up.
Job 42:7 (KJV)
7 And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.

Today many people go through trials without ending as well as Job's, believing all sorts of false notions about God.

I like it! You said "Today many people go through trials without ending as well as Job's, believing all sorts of false notions about God" That's what I call 'Churchianity'.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

I like it! You said "Today many people go through trials without ending

Very true and the sad part is, far to many times they did not have to go through them but when you make choices outside of being led by the Spirit, well you get to reap what you sowed. Then they give God the credit of causing it


Blessings

 

[Quantrill]

Now you blame God for the bad things that happen to a person...That is, to me, tantamount to blasphemy! You do not blame God for the ugly things Satan does....do you credit Satan for the good things God does for a person?

I never said Job was a sinner....I said he sinned....

No, I don't blame God at all. I acknowledge that God is the One who brought this suffering of Job on for His purpose. Just as it says in (Job 42: 11). "...and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him."

God uses satan just as He used the Assyrians. (Is. 10:5-7) Do you disbelieve these verses also? You certainly ignore them.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Ahem.....Let me point out that Job was already a man fearing God, blessed mightily, even under special protection from God. The "hedge" around everything Job was simply an "off limits" to Satan, who ruled men on earth after Adam relinquished it. Satan was biting at the bit to get through to that one man on earth, claiming he would abandon God, accuse God, if his material world was lost. Also, the book of Job is said by most scholars to be the oldest, even predating Moses and the Pentateuch. Job lived in Genesis times, before the Law arrived. Job was a man a lot like Abram, with some faults, but pleasing to God, That relationship justified the protection of God, making him the richest in the East.

When Job rose up to witness what an unleashed Devil could do, he refused to blame God. It wasn't done by the hand of God, but by permission of God to answer Satan's challenge. Job was not living under a strong covenant like Abraham inherited, probably having blessing of only the Noahic covenant.

The upright man Job came through the whole of it quite impressively, but the sons he sanctified and sacrified for were lost, and his wife had some "splainin' to do before God. Sure, Job got off into some stinkin' thinkin', but where's the facts to convict him of sin? What Job did for those kids is similar to the responsibility of parents today, who ought to dedicate their children to God regardless of outcome as soon as possible. If anyone sinned, it was Job's family, and of course, Satan.

You ignore that it was God Who instigated the whole matter....for His purpose. (Job 1:8) (42:11)

What Job did for his children out of concern for them was well accepted by God as they were not lost.

The sinners were the three friends of Job, who had to offer sacrifices for their empty advice to Job. (Job 42:7-8)

Quantrill

 

[Hekuran]

The first thing to take into account is that the Book of Job is in the Bible's wisdom literature and is written as a poetic drama. More than anything else, it's an exploration of the nature of human suffering and right attitude before God. So if there are details left out (such as why God and the satan were talking about Job in the first place) it's because it is not important to the dramatist's purpose.

The heart of the book is Job's response to calamity. His three friends give elegant and persuasive speeches explaining that he has got what he deserved, that God sent the suffering as justice for some sin. Job insists that he is blameless, and yet he also refuses to say that God is unjust.

Here's a way to really engage with what the book is doing. Imagine one of Job's friends comes to you for advice: what would you counsel them to say?

And in the light of the closing chapters, how do you imagine the Lord might respond to your advice?

 

[Bendito]

No, I don't blame God at all. I acknowledge that God is the One who brought this suffering of Job on for His purpose. Just as it says in (Job 42: 11). "...and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him."

God uses satan just as He used the Assyrians. (Is. 10:5-7) Do you disbelieve these verses also? You certainly ignore them.

Quantrill

So then you do blame God for the things Satan does...You speak like one of those politician creatures...Out of both sides of your face. God doesn't do bad things to people, but He makes Satan do it.....That makes God responsible! You need to make up your mind whether God is a giver of life or of death.

Is. 10:5-7 Read from the first verse. What is God doing? He is freeing His people from oppressors. If you can't even get the story straight......

 

[Dovegiven]

You ignore that it was God Who instigated the whole matter....for His purpose. (Job 1:8) (42:11)

What Job did for his children out of concern for them was well accepted by God as they were not lost.

The sinners were the three friends of Job, who had to offer sacrifices for their empty advice to Job. (Job 42:7-8)

Quantrill

Ahem..... The scriptures plainly indicate Satan interrupted the angelic meeting with an accusation against a man and God. God responded. You better hope God still manages those accusations His way, which is eternal, though ultimately enhanced in Christ. He has believers in the hand of faith AND covered by the blood of Jesus. Sacrifices by men never guaranteed success in the desired end unless done directly by order of God. Those of men were typically in the realm of hope if not the Law. Abel's ended in his immediate death.

The children of Job all died in spite of his sacrifices. You are right about the friends having to make sacrifices for their own sins, not Job, for he was still a friend of God, the only one still faithful. It is our own estimation that his ignorance of the mysterious ways of God seem to constitute a sin. The Law never condemned anyone for not understanding it was God who keeps the moon in sync with earth, or the source of food for a river of voracious crocodiles.

The three friends of Job offered FALSE notions, not just empty advice. Even today many offer empty advice in the name of the Lord, and go beyond with false advice.

I am for you and for truth.

 

[Dovegiven]

So then you do blame God for the things Satan does...You speak like one of those politician creatures...Out of both sides of your face. God doesn't do bad things to people, but He makes Satan do it.....That makes God responsible! You need to make up your mind whether God is a giver of life or of death.

Is. 10:5-7 Read from the first verse. What is God doing? He is freeing His people from oppressors. If you can't even get the story straight......

I believe God lets men choose.

 

[Dovegiven]

The first thing to take into account is that the Book of Job is in the Bible's wisdom literature and is written as a poetic drama. More than anything else, it's an exploration of the nature of human suffering and right attitude before God. So if there are details left out (such as why God and the satan were talking about Job in the first place) it's because it is not important to the dramatist's purpose.

The heart of the book is Job's response to calamity. His three friends give elegant and persuasive speeches explaining that he has got what he deserved, that God sent the suffering as justice for some sin. Job insists that he is blameless, and yet he also refuses to say that God is unjust.

Here's a way to really engage with what the book is doing. Imagine one of Job's friends comes to you for advice: what would you counsel them to say?

And in the light of the closing chapters, how do you imagine the Lord might respond to your advice?

Believing Job is a message inspired of God, then every aspect was pertinent of the dramatist's purpose. Satan is the accuser of the brethren, according to
Revelation 12:10 (KJV)
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

"Here's a way to really engage with what the book is doing. Imagine one of Job's friends comes to you for advice: what would you counsel them to say?" is a good topic idea! Very thoughtful....

 

[Bendito]

The first thing to take into account is that the Book of Job is in the Bible's wisdom literature and is written as a poetic drama. More than anything else, it's an exploration of the nature of human suffering and right attitude before God. So if there are details left out (such as why God and the satan were talking about Job in the first place) it's because it is not important to the dramatist's purpose.

The heart of the book is Job's response to calamity. His three friends give elegant and persuasive speeches explaining that he has got what he deserved, that God sent the suffering as justice for some sin. Job insists that he is blameless, and yet he also refuses to say that God is unjust.

Here's a way to really engage with what the book is doing. Imagine one of Job's friends comes to you for advice: what would you counsel them to say?

And in the light of the closing chapters, how do you imagine the Lord might respond to your advice?

If I had a God who was willing to break my leg to teach me something, while not telling me what it was He wanted me to learn, (I don't have a God like that); If I had a God who kills off my kids just because He want's me to trust Him, (I don't have a God like that) I would probably tell HIM where to go.
Love does not cause suffering, for no apparent reason. It does not cause suffering at all. Satan does and believe it or not, even he has a reason. As I said before, to accuse God of doing Satans works is blasphemy.
I strongly believe that the story of Job is not allegory or a dramatical poem. I believe it actually happened.
Oh yes! If I had friends like Jobs friends, I would ditch them too.

 

[Dovegiven]

If I had a God who was willing to break my leg to teach me something, while not telling me what it was He wanted me to learn, (I don't have a God like that); If I had a God who kills off my kids just because He want's me to trust Him, (I don't have a God like that) I would probably tell HIM where to go.
Love does not cause suffering, for no apparent reason. It does not cause suffering at all. Satan does and believe it or not, even he has a reason. As I said before, to accuse God of doing Satans works is blasphemy.
I strongly believe that the story of Job is not allegory or a dramatical poem. I believe it actually happened.
Oh yes! If I had friends like Jobs friends, I would ditch them too.

We deal with "Job's friends" often in hospital waiting rooms, and when visiting folks reeling from bad health reports. Everyone has their own idea about causes of problems, too often listing God as a suspect among possible thieves. But we have these precious words of Jesus:
John 10:10 (KJV)
10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

 

[Quantrill]

So then you do blame God for the things Satan does...You speak like one of those politician creatures...Out of both sides of your face. God doesn't do bad things to people, but He makes Satan do it.....That makes God responsible! You need to make up your mind whether God is a giver of life or of death.

Is. 10:5-7 Read from the first verse. What is God doing? He is freeing His people from oppressors. If you can't even get the story straight......

No, as I said, I acknowledge God is the one who brought the suffering upon Job. Just as Scripture says. (Job 1:8) (Job 42:11)

No, God is bringing judgement upon His people. And He is using an ungodly nation to do it. (Is. 10:5-7)

God is responsible. I have always said. When did I not say that? God is the giver of life and death.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Ahem..... The scriptures plainly indicate Satan interrupted the angelic meeting with an accusation against a man and God. God responded. You better hope God still manages those accusations His way, which is eternal, though ultimately enhanced in Christ. He has believers in the hand of faith AND covered by the blood of Jesus. Sacrifices by men never guaranteed success in the desired end unless done directly by order of God. Those of men were typically in the realm of hope if not the Law. Abel's ended in his immediate death.

The children of Job all died in spite of his sacrifices. You are right about the friends having to make sacrifices for their own sins, not Job, for he was still a friend of God, the only one still faithful. It is our own estimation that his ignorance of the mysterious ways of God seem to constitute a sin. The Law never condemned anyone for not understanding it was God who keeps the moon in sync with earth, or the source of food for a river of voracious crocodiles.

The three friends of Job offered FALSE notions, not just empty advice. Even today many offer empty advice in the name of the Lord, and go beyond with false advice.

I am for you and for truth.

Why do you say 'interrupted'? satan had to present himself before God just as the other angels. The same occurs in (Job 2:1) "Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD." satan did not come with an accusation. God first brought up the subject of Job to satan. (Job 1:8) I have no doubt God manages the accusations His way.

Well, yes the children died but they went on to be with God. Thus they were not lost. Job's three friends spoke wrongfully concerning Job in trying to say this judgement was for sin. Job spoke rightly concerning his suffering, saying he had not sinned against God yet did not know why this was happening.

And have I spoken the truth?

Quantrill

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

What Job did for his children out of concern for them was well accepted by God as they were not lost.

Was it now?
God desires Faith
So freaking out his kids might sin has no faith.

Second.....
One Sacrifice not as many that you wanted was the rules.

God Never Accepts Worry or Fear no matter ones human reasoning.

You gonna rewrite scripture?
Fear and wory pleases God. We walk by fear, sight and worried minds?

Think.....what are the fiery darts that satan uses?
They are Thoughts.
Where did this worry for his kids come from?
satan as fiery darts that job thought on and acted on.
that gave satan a free right in that he should not have ever had.

Learn your enemy brother ,

 

[Quantrill]

The first thing to take into account is that the Book of Job is in the Bible's wisdom literature and is written as a poetic drama. More than anything else, it's an exploration of the nature of human suffering and right attitude before God. So if there are details left out (such as why God and the satan were talking about Job in the first place) it's because it is not important to the dramatist's purpose.

The heart of the book is Job's response to calamity. His three friends give elegant and persuasive speeches explaining that he has got what he deserved, that God sent the suffering as justice for some sin. Job insists that he is blameless, and yet he also refuses to say that God is unjust.

Here's a way to really engage with what the book is doing. Imagine one of Job's friends comes to you for advice: what would you counsel them to say?

And in the light of the closing chapters, how do you imagine the Lord might respond to your advice?

Lest there be any doubt here, Job was a real person and the events described in the book of (Job) really occurred. (Ezekiel 14:14) "Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord God."

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Was it now?
God desires Faith
So freaking out his kids might sin has no faith.

Second.....
One Sacrifice not as many that you wanted was the rules.

God Never Accepts Worry or Fear no matter ones human reasoning.

You gonna rewrite scripture?
Fear and wory pleases God. We walk by fear, sight and worried minds?

Think.....what are the fiery darts that satan uses?
They are Thoughts.
Where did this worry for his kids come from?
satan as fiery darts that job thought on and acted on.
that gave satan a free right in that he should not have ever had.

Learn your enemy brother ,

Yes, it was.

Job's worry and concern over his children was not sin. It is the natural response of any parent.

You seem to forget that Job had a hedge about his home at this time, from God, that was a frustration to satan.

Quantrill

 

[Hekuran]

Lest there be any doubt here, Job was a real person and the events described in the book of (Job) really occurred. (Ezekiel 14:14) "Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord God."

Quantrill

Yes. Saying that it's a drama does not mean it is unhistorical.

 

[Hekuran]

Was it now?
God desires Faith
So freaking out his kids might sin has no faith.

Second.....
One Sacrifice not as many that you wanted was the rules.

God Never Accepts Worry or Fear no matter ones human reasoning.

You gonna rewrite scripture?
Fear and wory pleases God. We walk by fear, sight and worried minds?

Think.....what are the fiery darts that satan uses?
They are Thoughts.
Where did this worry for his kids come from?
satan as fiery darts that job thought on and acted on.
that gave satan a free right in that he should not have ever had.

Learn your enemy brother ,

Throughout, Job says he is righteous before God. And God never contradicts him on this.

 

[Hekuran]

If I had a God who was willing to break my leg to teach me something, while not telling me what it was He wanted me to learn, (I don't have a God like that); If I had a God who kills off my kids just because He want's me to trust Him, (I don't have a God like that) I would probably tell HIM where to go.
Love does not cause suffering, for no apparent reason. It does not cause suffering at all. Satan does and believe it or not, even he has a reason. As I said before, to accuse God of doing Satans works is blasphemy.
I strongly believe that the story of Job is not allegory or a dramatical poem. I believe it actually happened.
Oh yes! If I had friends like Jobs friends, I would ditch them too.

Well, for reasons not given, God allowed calamity to fall on Job and his household. The important thing is how Job and his friends responded to the disaster.

And what do you find objectionable about Job's friends' advice?