Thoughts from book of Colossians

[Sue D.]

"We give thanks to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ; praying always for you. ..... and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding,...... that you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing Him, being fruitful in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God;.

Lots of good 'stuff' in this book.

Feel free to continue.

 

[Dave M]

that you may walk worthy

When I first got saved I was very confused, I kept hearing we cant do anything to be saved, I did not understand that although we will never be good enough to save our self, we still need to walk in a way that is worthy. We have to practice the fruits of the spirit, like patience and self control, these things are signs to me that we are becoming worthy.

It almost a conflicting message, you cant do anything to get saved, yet we have to be worthy. I mean how can you be worthy, if you don't have to do anything.

I do realize its God who makes us worthy, and by his spirit in us we start producing fruit, and this is like a living proof that we are saved.

Yet it seems we still have responsibility as well to contribute.

 

[Sue D.]

It's the result Of our salvation -- the fruits of the spirit are in us Because the Holy Spirit is within us.

Realize who we are In Christ. And walk worthy Of that standing.

God wants us Just as we are -- no need to try to clean ourselves up first

 

[Dave M]

God wants us Just as we are -- no need to try to clean ourselves up first

absolutely!!!!

, and after a while we should start see some real change,

if not then there is cause to be concerned

 

[Sue D.]

And then there is vs 8 of ch 2 "Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ."

comments?

 

[Dave M]

according to the tradition of men

catholic religion claim full authority over spiritual matters, they put them selves above the word of God

according to the basic principles of the world,

Prosperity gospel teaches worldliness of greed

 

[B-A-C]

Col 1:15; He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
Col 1:16; For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.
Col 1:17; He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
Col 1:18; He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.
Col 1:19; For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,
Col 1:20; and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

A ton of theology in these 5 verses.

Genesis says in the beginning GOD created the heavens and the earth.
But verse 16 above says Jesus created the heavens and the earth. Is this a conflict? Or is Jesus God?

Verse 18 says Jesus is the head of the church. Not the other way around, it seems some churches want to be the head of Jesus and decide what Jesus does or doesn't do.

I don't have enough time here to speak to verse 20. Jesus reconciling creation, through the blood of His death on the cross.... this is really the message of Christianity in one verse.

 

[Dave M]

But verse 16 above says Jesus created the heavens and the earth. Is this a conflict? Or is Jesus God?

thats awesome right there, as we both know Jesus is God in the flesh, but this could not be any clearer for helping others see the truth that deny Jesus as God

very nice

 

[FrankDSegura]

When I first got saved I was very confused, I kept hearing we cant do anything to be saved, I did not understand that although we will never be good enough to save our self, we still need to walk in a way that is worthy. We have to practice the fruits of the spirit, like patience and self control, these things are signs to me that we are becoming worthy.

It almost a conflicting message, you cant do anything to get saved, yet we have to be worthy. I mean how can you be worthy, if you don't have to do anything.

I do realize its God who makes us worthy, and by his spirit in us we start producing fruit, and this is like a living proof that we are saved.

Yet it seems we still have responsibility as well to contribute.

Okay very nice, I was wondering where you were going with that..
But i do have a question if I may ask..
How do I know if I have true love in my heart? And can someone bear the some fruits of the Holy spirit? Do the others come over time? and can a true Holy spirit filled Christian have any sort of sin in the life of the believer?

 

[Dave M]

can a true Holy spirit filled Christian have any sort of sin in the life of the believer?

you are full of questions my freind I like to see hunger for God, but allow me to ask you a question, what did you read in you bible today?? how many hours this week have you read the bible?

 

[Brother-Paul]

Col 1:15; He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
Col 1:16; For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.
Col 1:17; He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
Col 1:18; He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.
Col 1:19; For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,
Col 1:20; and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

A ton of theology in these 5 verses.

Genesis says in the beginning GOD created the heavens and the earth.
But verse 16 above says Jesus created the heavens and the earth. Is this a conflict? Or is Jesus God?

Verse 18 says Jesus is the head of the church. Not the other way around, it seems some churches want to be the head of Jesus and decide what Jesus does or doesn't do.

I don't have enough time here to speak to verse 20. Jesus reconciling creation, through the blood of His death on the cross.... this is really the message of Christianity in one verse.

Amen brother a Big Amen

Colossians, not the biggest of books by any means, in fact only four chapters, but so full of clarity and truth.

My heart jumps for joy at this book, Crown Him, Crown Him, Crown Him, Crown Him Lord of All.


Jesus Christ IS our Saviour
He has Delivered us, Redeemed us and Forgiven us.

Colossians 1:13-14 (NKJV)
13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love,
14 in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.


Jesus Christ is our Creator

Colossians 1:15-17 (NKJV)
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers.
All things were created through Him and for Him.
17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.


Jesus the Christ is Head of His Church

Colossians 1:18 (NKJV)
18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

No denomination can claim to be "the body of Christ,"

The body of Christ is made up of ALL true believers, regardless of age, sex, country, language, Jew or Gentile.

When a person gives their life to Christ and repents of all their sins, he/she is immediately baptized by the Holy Spirit into the body of Christ, His Church.
We become spiritual stones of His Church, and Christ Jesus is the Head.
In Greek usage, the word head meant "source" and "origin" as well as "leader, ruler."

The baptism of the Spirit occurs the instant a person believes in Jesus Christ...

1 Corinthians 12:12-13 (NKJV)
12 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ.
13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.


Colossians 1:18 (NKJV)
18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

The theme of this entire section: "That in all things He might have the preeminence".
This was God's purpose in making His Son the Saviour, Creator, and Head of the church.

The word translated "preeminence" is used nowhere else in the New Testament.
It is related to the word translated "firstborn," and it magnifies the unique position of Jesus Christ. "Christ is all, and in all"


Colossians 3:8-11 (NKJV)
8 But now you yourselves are to put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy language out of your mouth.
9 Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds,
10 and have put on the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him,
11 where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all.

Blessings

 

[Sue D.]

Okay very nice, I was wondering where you were going with that..
But i do have a question if I may ask..
How do I know if I have true love in my heart? And can someone bear the some fruits of the Holy spirit? Do the others come over time? and can a true Holy spirit filled Christian have any sort of sin in the life of the believer?

The fruits of the spirit are there automatically when the Holy Spirit comes to indwell immediately upon salvation. Galatians 5:22-23 And Ephesians 5:8 - 9 (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth),
The fruits of the Spirit are love, joy , peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faithfulness, self-control. It's not really a matter of checking your life to see if you possess 'some or all' of them. That's not really the point. Other people will be observing those qualities In your life. A person isn't going to be sitting down and saying '' have I been showing 'gentleness' today? Or 'have I been joyful today'? Because it gives the impression that if you Haven't been then maybe you're not Really saved. So -- 1st -- settle it with God in your heart, that you Are a child of God. That you Have, indeed, accepted Jesus Christ as personal Savior. THEN 'faithfully' read God's Word everyday. Faithfully means taking time every day To do that. And talk to God Every day. Not in an effort to Keep your salvation, but to enrich / deepen / your relationship with God. Go to church - regularly. Fellowship with other believers - regularly. For the good of the group and yourself.

Being a born-again believer -- you've said a 'true Holy Spirit-filled' Christian. A born-again believer Is a Holy Spirit -filled believer. Because upon Salvation the Holy Spirit does come to indwell the person. But also, in certain groups Of believers -- there Are those who feel that it's possible to be Always 'super-filled' -- Always on a spiritual cloud-nine. And they never seem to be doing anything wrong. But 'everyone' does have some sin in our lives. Maybe it's in what we Are or are Not doing that we should or should Not Be doing. Maybe a person is reading their Bible / praying a Lot but to the extent of not cleaning their house or washing their clothes or taking the garbage out. So there Needs to be balance. There's a saying that cleanliness is next to Godliness.

I don't know how a person Doesn't know that they have true love in their heart. A person has 'warmth' in their heart.

Have you ever 'fallen in love"? there's no question in your inner being that you're in love and other people can see it in you. Except that nothing ever takes God's love away from you. 'we' can fall in and out of love with other people. And sometimes 'we' experience a relationship with another person that Does end. Or the other person breaks up with us and leaves Us to 'get over it'. And sometimes 'we' continue to have those warm, loving feelings towards the other person Anyway. But God's love is permanent. he will Never leave 'us' or forsake 'us'.

One of the other posters asked how much you read your Bible. that was in post #10.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Greetings @FrankDSegura

Sue has mentioned a lot of good information for you, just to add a penneth if I may.

The moment you repent of all your sins, meaning what you pray from your heart, in other words genuine repentance, and ask Jesus into your heart and life you receive the Holy Spirits dwelling in you, all your past sins are forgiven and forgotten, you get a clean slate. That is truly amazing.

What else is truly amazing is we do not have to get better, do works, to be accepted as God, He takes us as we are, sins and everything. Now the world is opposite, you have to get qualifications, you have to do better, you have to pull your socks up, some have to do probation etc, God literally takes us as we are!

Now Sue tells you of the fruits of the Spirit, don't expect to see these straight away, God takes us, then moulds us to be the people He wants us to be, these fruits or some, or many of the fruits will show in time. How long does it take God to mould us to be the people He wants us to be, from the time of being born-again to the time the earthly body dies and the spirit and soul go to heaven. Why this length of time, is it because we have been really bad? No, we were forgiven when we repented and asked Jesus in to our lives, what He is doing is preparing us for heaven. So don't look for these things they will come if you are faithful.

So what does it mean to be faithful, it means to obey God's commands, do His will in our lives, to take up our cross daily and follow Jesus. Pray the Lord's Prayer my friend, look closely at the Words our Lord said we must pray.

Our Father,
(Jesus always points us to God and to Heaven)
Who art in Heaven
(see what I mean)
Hallowed be they Name
(Holy is God's Name, we are to Hallow His Name, treat it with reverence and praise)
Thy Kingdom come, they will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven
(God's Kingdom come! on earth as it is in Heaven! Yes my friend, in the heart of every born-again believer)
Give us this day our daily bread
(What is our daily bread, bread from Heaven is the scriptures, your Bible Frank. Pray God will guide you in the Truth in His Word - note 'Daily Bread' - but just enough to digest not to little not to much, we learn from children, milk, soft foods, meat, it is the same with our Daily Bread, digest sufficient daily.)
and forgive us our trespasses, sins, debts, as we forgive those who trespass, sin or have debts against us,
We are to ask forgiveness daily to be right with God, but we are to forgive others what they have against us.
And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one,
We are to pray for protection my friend, that God will not allow us to be tempted, that He will protect us from the devil and his devious tricks.
For thine is the Kingdom, the Power and the Glory, for ever and ever Amen
Give God the Glory Frank, He loves you so much He allowed His one and only Son to die for your sins, my sins, the sins of the whole world.

Pray always, it doesn't have to be in a place of worship, pray everywhere you feel led to pray, life is a prayer my friend.

Prayer is a conversation with God, but remember to pray in Jesus Name, all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Jesus, No one comes to the Father except through Jesus, we are always to pray, In Jesus Name, Amen (Amen means so be it)

Bless you

 

[FrankDSegura]

you are full of questions my freind I like to see hunger for God, but allow me to ask you a question, what did you read in you bible today?? how many hours this week have you read the bible?

Well Mr. Dave M...
I do read my scriptures, I dont count hours, and I dont even count how many times I touch my Bible, but I know that Gods word is true and we are living in the last days.
I take this scripture as a saying to take in to the heart-as if Jesus Christ himself were saying it that saying being-
"My son, keep my words, and lay up my commandments with thee.
Keep my commandments, and live; and my law as the apple of thine eye.
Bind them upon thy fingers, write them upon the table of thine heart."
Proverbs7:1-3

So with that being said I memorize the meaning of what each scripture I read is trying to say.
I nust need to know is this world apostate-Godless?
I fear that this world is not what it seems to be. I fear that the things unseen in this world are wicked and that People in general (including professing believers) have secretly turned to the wicked one. I could be wrong but I know its not unbiblical to think that would happen (2 Thessalonians chapter 2 man)

I know that this platform has people from many different backgrounds, I just recognize division in this world pertaining to the Bible, Jesus Christ, the trinity,
Etc..
I know that this world is filled with a bunch of explanation of who Jesus really is.
But I think we know who he is by the two greatest commands he tells us to keep and the 10 commandments will be kept by keeping those 2 commandments.

 

[Dave M]

@FrankDSegura said:
can a true Holy spirit filled Christian have any sort of sin in the life of the believer?

hey brother this question puzzled me for a long time when I first came to Christ I herd so many different views on it I had no Idea. But the truth is laid out in the bible so clear, thats why I asked you if you read your bible, we must go to the bible and check everything we here against the word of God. I can not stress enough about the importance of daily time in the word alone with God, so glad to here you are in your bible brother.

So now here is what I believe, its very important to understand the difference between living a life of sin and stumbling in sin. Living a life of sin is someone that practice sin on a regular basis, example would be,, man and women living together and not being married and being sexualy immoral. Or someone who regularly gets drunk, these are examples of living in sin and practicing sin as a lifestyle. When you become saved It may take some time to free yourself of the bondage of sin, but your heart should change and you should not any longer want to live a lifestyle of sin, as this process takes place usually for most (not all some, are instant but that few IMO) some may stumble in sin, but when they do they will be convicted by the holly spirit and feel so guilty, they will repent, eventually you will conquer the sin that used to control your life if are maturing, you will see a huge change in your lifestyle

Here is the scripture that I believe backs up what I say.

so this scripture flat out tells us these people are not getting into heaven, these are people that practice sin as a lifestyle.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.


scripture is clear about practicing sinners are not of God, this is the litmus test IMO
1 John 3:9
No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.


I would strongly suggest reading 1 John about 20 times or more over and over again, with prayer and fasting. To me it clearly spells out what a born again believer looks like in real life

 

[Sue D.]

@Dave M -- when I was reading those comments -- that's the passage that came to my mind, too. 1 John is a wonderful book.

And there's also Psalms 37 : 3,4,5,7.

Way back when I was younger, I was challenged to memorize Scripture -- it was hard to do -- to consciously sit down and Try to memorize. But, with Me, I found that when I used various verses over and over in various Bible studies -- or on Forums -- I knew passages to share but couldn't especially remember Where they were located. The Holy Spirit Does bring passage to our minds To share.

I'm thinking that churches don't especially teach God's Word very much -- so 'we' can get more easily derailed from what a Christian is really supposed to look and act like. And we're supposed to be 'tolerating' so much for the 'sake Of' that we really can loose sight of what is 'okay' compared to what is really Godly.

 

[B-A-C]

Col 2:6; Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him,
Col 2:7; having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith, just as you were instructed, and overflowing with gratitude.
Col 2:8; See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.
Col 2:9; For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,
Col 2:10; and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;
Col 2:11; and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;
Col 2:12; having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.
Col 2:13; When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,

What does it mean to "walk in Him"? walking in Jesus?
How can a Christian be "taken captive" through philosophy and deception?

.... for in Him "ALL" the fullness of Deity dwells... Jesus is God, how can it get plainer than that?
We have talked about circumcision before (mostly in Galatians) but it seems we receive a "spiritual circumcision" (not of the flesh).
I have often wondered how women take that verse.

Finally it seems in the act of immersive baptism.... we have "buried with Him in baptism". Many churches teach, that when you go under the water, this is symbolic
of dying with Christ, being buried in the ground with Him.... and then when you are "raised up" out of the water, this symbolizes being raised up n the resurrection.

 

[Sue D.]

Well -- considering what physical circumcision Is -- How would anyone Know that a boy or man Has been. It's not like the tip of a finger has been cut -- that's more out in the open. Circumcision involved the 'private' parts. To be kept Covered.

I've never really understood exactly What spiritual circumcision means. Besides, since I'm not Jewish, I've never been that concerned about it.

As for baptism by immersion -- yes, symbolic of believing that Jesus Christ did die for 'my' sins and that He was buried and did rise again bodily For me. A person Does rise up out of baptisimal waters showing to others their desire to live a life for Christ. That it's Not just ' me' anymore.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Greetings Sue

I understand Spiritual circumcision as, pulling back the veil or covering, so there nothing hidden in our heart, everything is exposed to God.

Circumcision of the heart, is removing anything and everything covering it. Removing the flesh, revealing everything, hiding nothing.

We are not to view it like human circumcision, cutting back the flesh to show the bell end, like many things in scripture, it is using something that is known or was done as an example.

It comes over to me a bit like the conversation between Jesus and Nichodemus, how can a man enter a woman's womb a second time. Here it is how can we circumcise our heart and reveal it. They are examples from things that were/are familiar to all, that I believe is how we should see them.

 

[B-A-C]

I've never really understood exactly What spiritual circumcision means. Besides, since I'm not Jewish, I've never been that concerned about it.

According to the old testament covenant, circumcision wasn't just a Jewish thing. Whenever any Gentiles wanted to convert to Judaism, they had to be circumcised.
(This started with Abraham (who wasn't technically Jewish), then Ishmael who wasn't a Jew)

But it seems Jewish or not... every needs to be spiritually circumcised. We are discussing Colossians here. Who was this book written to? Jews or Gentiles?
Where was Colossae? In Israel or Asia? (Turkey/Anatolia)