The Word of God - Inspired, Translated

[Mark of Faith]

The previous thread "The Word of God", by Carico, conatined some good points. It did, however, descend into a polarised discussion, and I wanted to start a new thread on this subject.

I believe the word of God to be "God breathed". Paul and Peter both confirmed this in their epistles: the Bible testifies that the Bible is True.

I believe the Bible to be infallible. It is the only infallible revelation of God's will. (Note: Christ is the full and pure Truth and Revelation of God and the Holy Spirit is Good, True and Perfect. But their greatest revelation and expression is found in the Bible. I plan to post another thread on the gift of prophesy relating to this one.)

We can learn from Creation, we can be inspired by prophesy, but the ultimate standard we must measure everything against is the word of God.

So what about the various translations?

Well, neither Hebrew nor Greek translate very well into English. (I have to speak only about English language translations, maybe another member can speak concerning other languages.)

So, there will always be a certain amount of distortion in a translation. We trust in the Holy Spirit to maintain the overall truth, and all faithful translators expend much prayer whilst translating.

When studying the Bible, it is good to have a few different translations available. I tend to read the KJV, NKJV and NIV.

And there are different types of translations.

1. Direct Equivalent: each word is translated as faithfully as possible. Minor adjustments are made to ensure an English speaking person can follow it. Examples: KJV, NKJV and Tyndale's New Testament.

2. Dynamic Equivalent: a looser translation. Phrases and paragraphs are taken en bloc and translated, in order to convey the meaning. Examples: Good News Bible, NIV.

3. Interpretational: In translation there is also interpretation. These are not true translations, and confusion can come because what is being read also has an in-built interpretation based on the theological standpoints of the translators. Examples: The Message, The Living Bible.

4. Adulterated: I include this as it is important to understand this. Some false prophets and teachers have actually deliberately altered Scripture to fit in with their beliefs. Examples include the JW Bible.

Hope that helps someone.

Mark.

 

[Doc]

The previous thread "The Word of God", by Carico, conatined some good points. It did, however, descend into a polarised discussion, and I wanted to start a new thread on this subject.

I believe the word of God to be "God breathed". Paul and Peter both confirmed this in their epistles: the Bible testifies that the Bible is True.

I believe the Bible to be infallible. It is the only infallible revelation of God's will. (Note: Christ is the full and pure Truth and Revelation of God and the Holy Spirit is Good, True and Perfect. But their greatest revelation and expression is found in the Bible. I plan to post another thread on the gift of prophesy relating to this one.)

We can learn from Creation, we can be inspired by prophesy, but the ultimate standard we must measure everything against is the word of God.

So what about the various translations?

Well, neither Hebrew nor Greek translate very well into English. (I have to speak only about English language translations, maybe another member can speak concerning other languages.)

So, there will always be a certain amount of distortion in a translation. We trust in the Holy Spirit to maintain the overall truth, and all faithful translators expend much prayer whilst translating.

When studying the Bible, it is good to have a few different translations available. I tend to read the KJV, NKJV and NIV.

And there are different types of translations.

1. Direct Equivalent: each word is translated as faithfully as possible. Minor adjustments are made to ensure an English speaking person can follow it. Examples: KJV, NKJV and Tyndale's New Testament.

2. Dynamic Equivalent: a looser translation. Phrases and paragraphs are taken en bloc and translated, in order to convey the meaning. Examples: Good News Bible, NIV.

3. Interpretational: In translation there is also interpretation. These are not true translations, and confusion can come because what is being read also has an in-built interpretation based on the theological standpoints of the translators. Examples: The Message, The Living Bible.

4. Adulterated: I include this as it is important to understand this. Some false prophets and teachers have actually deliberately altered Scripture to fit in with their beliefs. Examples include the JW Bible.

Hope that helps someone.

Mark.

Mark: If I may ask, when you say "God breathed" what do you understand that to mean? And upon what do you base your understanding of that meaning? BLESSINGS Doc

 

[Brother Mike]

The Word of God

I believe God was more than able to keep his Word just as He meant it for English translation.

I believe that the KJV keeps what God meant and said. It is the only bible where looking up "Like" things is consistent, even though a better English word could have been used. "Latter rain?? as an example"

I believe the Holy Ghost has gotten involved in translations just like the KJV. I do use others to compare and I am not a KJV only person, but study out of that text as it makes it hard to look up something in one bible if you memorize the verse from a different text.

I believe that because Satans first trick was to convince Eve that God did not really say what He meant, then it is more than possilbe that we have bibles floating around corrupted by Mr. Devil.

We have the Word. It is from God. He was more than able to keep His word intact for us. Not one jot has passed away.

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[Mark of Faith]

"God breathed"

Mark: If I may ask, when you say "God breathed" what do you understand that to mean? And upon what do you base your understanding of that meaning? BLESSINGS Doc

My understanding of "God breathed", which is the term Peter used when refering the the word of God, is that it was the Holy Spirit who filled the writers of both Old and New Testaments and gave them the words to write.

Peter states whilst inspired, "All Scripture is God breathed."

The English word "Inspired" is related to the words "expiration" and "inspiration", as parts of "respiration". To be "inspired" literally means to be "breathed on by God". As the Holy Spirit has inspired the Biblical writers, so it is "God breathed."

Note: my understanding only, in response to the question.

Mark.

 

[Doc]

My understanding of "God breathed", which is the term Peter used when refering the the word of God, is that it was the Holy Spirit who filled the writers of both Old and New Testaments and gave them the words to write.

Peter states whilst inspired, "All Scripture is God breathed."

The English word "Inspired" is related to the words "expiration" and "inspiration", as parts of "respiration". To be "inspired" literally means to be "breathed on by God". As the Holy Spirit has inspired the Biblical writers, so it is "God breathed."

Note: my understanding only, in response to the question.

Mark.

Mark, I appreciate your response. So, if I might ask - in your understanding - where does "preservation" fit into the doctrine of "inspiration" - or "breathed on by God"? That is, does "preservation" produce an identical result to "inspiration"; an inferior result to "inspiration"; or a superior result to "inspiration"?

I look forward to your responses. BLESSINGS. Doc

 

[Boanerges]

I had a cousin who went to cemetery- oh I mean seminary. He learned so much of the mechanic's of the Word that he lost track of what the Holy Spirit was saying through it, it tokk him a decade to fully recover his faith.
Knowledge of the scripture is good and necessary but man's understanding is limited.
I love apologetics and firmly believe in them but must share this.
One day I was praying an asking the Lord what He thought about me learning Greek to understand the Word. That still small voice I hear in my spirit simply replied something like this " learning all those things are good but do not loose your understanding of My heart".

 

[Mark of Faith]

I had a cousin who went to cemetery- oh I mean seminary. He learned so much of the mechanic's of the Word that he lost track of what the Holy Spirit was saying through it, it tokk him a decade to fully recover his faith.
Knowledge of the scripture is good and necessary but man's understanding is limited.
I love apologetics and firmly believe in them but must share this.
One day I was praying an asking the Lord what He thought about me learning Greek to understand the Word. That still small voice I hear in my spirit simply replied something like this " learning all those things are good but do not loose your understanding of My heart".

Thank you Boanerges for this response. Yes, it is the heart of God that is important, vital, to get to know.

In response to Doc, a precise answer I cannot give.
Yet I do believe that in translation the translators sought inspiration from the Holy Spirit.
And I think the next point is the most important: That in our reading of the Word (whatever translation or language) we must seek to hear the Holy Spirit. The printed words in a Bible are not the "living Word", but when the text is empowered by the Holy Spirit Himself inspiring us, then it is "living".

Mark.

NOTE: still only my own understanding, which is, obviously, limited.

 

[Doc]

I had a cousin who went to cemetery- oh I mean seminary. He learned so much of the mechanic's of the Word that he lost track of what the Holy Spirit was saying through it, it tokk him a decade to fully recover his faith.
Knowledge of the scripture is good and necessary but man's understanding is limited.
I love apologetics and firmly believe in them but must share this.
One day I was praying an asking the Lord what He thought about me learning Greek to understand the Word. That still small voice I hear in my spirit simply replied something like this " learning all those things are good but do not loose your understanding of My heart".

Nice thoughts, Boanerges, and certainly some wisdom to consider.

HOWEVER, never forget - if it weren't for those who dedicated their lives to the study of biblical languages, textual criticism, manners and customs of biblical times, biblical archeology, etc., NO ONE WOULD HAVE A BIBLE TODAY IN ANY LANGUAGE!

Obviously, God doesn't call everyone to these tasks. But, it would be wise to be thankful that He does call some to dedicate their lives to biblical scholarship. This is the means that God uses to fulfill His promise to preserve His Word. Psalm 12:6-7 Without “preservation,” the doctrine of “inspiration is worthless.” BLESSINGS. Doc :wink:

 

[Boanerges]

I certainly have not forgotten my friend.
Scripture is not about mechanics but the revelation of Gods will to man. The written Word is the vehicle used and without it we would surely be in the dark. At the same time one could perform everything from Genesis to Revelation and never know God. It is only as the Holy Spirit gives life to those Words that we may benefit from this written Word.
Thank God for those faithful servants He entrusted to give, to keep and to make His Word available for us all.

 

[jiggyfly]

Very true Doc, and while it is true that we can benefit from the spiritual inspiration of others it is meant to encourage us to experience our own intimacy and insiration with God not fulfill or replace it. But for many within the Christian religious institution it is a substitute for real personal experience. I am very thankful especially for those who have authored and edited many of the linguistic works available today. With the help of these holySpirit has revealed, corrected and adjusted my religious thinking many, many times

But keep in mind that there are many conflicting and contrary translations, commentaries, and doctrines within christendom. Just because the christian religious system adopts this doctrine or that concept does not lend it any crediability as far as I am concerned. Credibility must come by spiritual revelation before it is settled with me.

 

[Doc]

I certainly have not forgotten my friend.
Scripture is not about mechanics but the revelation of Gods will to man. The written Word is the vehicle used and without it we would surely be in the dark. At the same time one could perform everything from Genesis to Revelation and never know God. It is only as the Holy Spirit gives life to those Words that we may benefit from this written Word.
Thank God for those faithful servants He entrusted to give, to keep and to make His Word available for us all.

I certainly agree, my friend. But the study of the "mechanics" - to use your term - of biblical languages in no way automatically produces coldness, lack of faith, or a failure to rely upon the Holy Spirit. You seem to be implying that it does.

Environment - whether it be seminary, prison, secular college, corporate America, etc. - does not produce the fruit of what took place in your friend. That, my dear brother, is a matter of his heart.

He, like Adam and Eve, apparently finds it more comfortable to point the finger “outwardly” instead of “inwardly” when diagnosing his failure. A very common practice today among “believers”.

A man who is right with God, can comfortably sit in a college class on secular humanism and atheism and not have any crisis to his faith whatsoever. It isn’t what is “outside” a man that defiles the man, but what is “inside” him. Sound familiar? BLESSINGS. Doc

 

[Doc]

Thank you Boanerges for this response. Yes, it is the heart of God that is important, vital, to get to know.

In response to Doc, a precise answer I cannot give.
Yet I do believe that in translation the translators sought inspiration from the Holy Spirit.
And I think the next point is the most important: That in our reading of the Word (whatever translation or language) we must seek to hear the Holy Spirit. The printed words in a Bible are not the "living Word", but when the text is empowered by the Holy Spirit Himself inspiring us, then it is "living".

Mark.

NOTE: still only my own understanding, which is, obviously, limited.

Mark, I am a little confused here. It was my understanding this "thread" was about THE WORD OF GOD. But the discussion seems to have switched to The Work of the Holy Spirit.

Obviously, any work of biblical scholarship - that has any merit - is bathed in prayer, trusting the leadership of the Holy Spirit. And it is also obvious that without the Holy Spirit giving life to scriptures, we would all be as blind as a bat in a hailstorm. Certainly, we know that a natural man cannot understand the things of the Spirit of God - 1Corinthians 2:13-14 - and certainly we know that a man cannot even believe in Christ unless the Holy Spirit draws him - John 6:44 - and we can certainly have a comprehensive discussion about the WORK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT if you like.

But again, I thought we were discussing The Word of God in this thread. No? BLESSINGS. Doc

 

[Mark of Faith]

Mark, I am a little confused here. It was my understanding this "thread" was about THE WORD OF GOD. But the discussion seems to have switched to The Work of the Holy Spirit.

Obviously, any work of biblical scholarship - that has any merit - is bathed in prayer, trusting the leadership of the Holy Spirit. And it is also obvious that without the Holy Spirit giving life to scriptures, we would all be as blind as a bat in a hailstorm. Certainly, we know that a natural man cannot understand the things of the Spirit of God - 1Corinthians 2:13-14 - and certainly we know that a man cannot even believe in Christ unless the Holy Spirit draws him - John 6:44 - and we can certainly have a comprehensive discussion about the WORK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT if you like.

But again, I thought we were discussing The Word of God in this thread. No? BLESSINGS. Doc

Sorry, Doc, maybe I did take a little detour there.

However, I believe that the Word of God is the work of the Holy Spirit....in its inspiration, preservation, and true interpretation.

I am slowly moving away from the doctrine of "personal revelation" separated from the "written revelation". The Word of God is, I firmly believe, infallible. I hold that most translations are the result of a preserved meaning.

If we didn't have the word, we would not have solid basis for our faith.

Yet, I would ask you Doc, how the matter of "preservation" takes place, and to what degree considering the differing translations, not to mention the varying ancient documents.

(A quick point, which maybe we can expand upon, is that even though different ancient manuscripts, and different translations, have slightly varying meanings in certain passages, every one points to Christ and the standard evangelical doctrines.)

Mark.

 

[Boanerges]

Environment - whether it be seminary, prison, secular college, corporate America, etc. - does not produce the fruit of what took place in your friend. That, my dear brother, is a matter of his heart.

True faith and knowledge are not mutually exclusive (as long as the Holy Spirit is involved).
But it was also a matter of the professors there who seemed to tear down faith at every opportunity. After reading much of the curiculum it seemed that they taught mercy and faith but demonstrated none.

As far as his heart you obviously cannot know the first thing about him. I have seen this man of God give up literally everything he had to serve Jesus and he would gladly do so again.
As a Pastor over 3 churches he was willing to stand for the Lord and His Word in the face of the "religious hierarchy" even at the point of his career, his home and his life in general. He did so without one regret, I saw Jesus in that.

 

[Doc]

True faith and knowledge are not mutually exclusive (as long as the Holy Spirit is involved).
But it was also a matter of the professors there who seemed to tear down faith at every opportunity. After reading much of the curiculum it seemed that they taught mercy and faith but demonstrated none.

As far as his heart you obviously cannot know the first thing about him. I have seen this man of God give up literally everything he had to serve Jesus and he would gladly do so again.
As a Pastor over 3 churches he was willing to stand for the Lord and His Word in the face of the "religious hierarchy" even at the point of his career, his home and his life in general. He did so without one regret, I saw Jesus in that.

Slow down now, Boanerges. I DO know the "first thing about him" - what I know is what YOU said about him. Your exact quote was, “it took him a decade to fully recover his faith.” Excuse me - I know that about him. You also said, “He learned so much of the mechanic's of the Word that he lost track of what the Holy Spirit was saying through it.” I also know that about him.

So, help me understand - how does a man with the “indwelling Holy Spirit of God, with the right relationship with God, lose track of Him?

What is true - based on the authority of Scripture - there is only one reason a man can lose his relationship with God for ten years - SIN.

Come on now, Boanerges. I challenge you to show me ONE scriptural example where a man loses his relationship with God for ANY OTHER reason than SIN.

And if you think for one minute that “pastoring” a church, or a number of churches, is any indication of a man’s “walk” with Christ, or faithfulness to God, well how “telling” that is.

What also is true, is that the world's "victim" mentality has spilled over into the so-called Christian community. Nobody today is responsible for anything - their sin, faithlessness, carnality, materialism, addictions, ungodly strongholds - it is always the fault of someone or something else. God help us. BLESSINGS. Doc

 

[jiggyfly]

Mark, I am a little confused here. It was my understanding this "thread" was about THE WORD OF GOD. But the discussion seems to have switched to The Work of the Holy Spirit.

Obviously, any work of biblical scholarship - that has any merit - is bathed in prayer, trusting the leadership of the Holy Spirit. And it is also obvious that without the Holy Spirit giving life to scriptures, we would all be as blind as a bat in a hailstorm. Certainly, we know that a natural man cannot understand the things of the Spirit of God - 1Corinthians 2:13-14 - and certainly we know that a man cannot even believe in Christ unless the Holy Spirit draws him - John 6:44 - and we can certainly have a comprehensive discussion about the WORK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT if you like.

But again, I thought we were discussing The Word of God in this thread. No? BLESSINGS. Doc

Whether or not the translators sought inspiriation from HolySpirit does not indicate that they recieved it. It is one thing to be inspired by HolySpirit for service and totally other to seek out HolySpirit"s help for something planned.

 

[Boanerges]

Slow down now, Boanerges. I DO know the "first thing about him" - what I know is what YOU said about him. Your exact quote was, “it took him a decade to fully recover his faith.” Excuse me - I know that about him. You also said, “He learned so much of the mechanic's of the Word that he lost track of what the Holy Spirit was saying through it.” I also know that about him.

So, help me understand - how does a man with the “indwelling Holy Spirit of God, with the right relationship with God, lose track of Him?

What is true - based on the authority of Scripture - there is only one reason a man can lose his relationship with God for ten years - SIN.

Come on now, Boanerges. I challenge you to show me ONE scriptural example where a man loses his relationship with God for ANY OTHER reason than SIN.

And if you think for one minute that “pastoring” a church, or a number of churches, is any indication of a man’s “walk” with Christ, or faithfulness to God, well how “telling” that is.

What also is true, is that the world's "victim" mentality has spilled over into the so-called Christian community. Nobody today is responsible for anything - their sin, faithlessness, carnality, materialism, addictions, ungodly strongholds - it is always the fault of someone or something else. God help us. BLESSINGS. Doc

I am changing my post somewhat as I was less then patient in my response and God was not being glorified, for that I am sorry and I apologize.
But, unless you know someone or walk in their trails you cannot make an intelligent comment on their life.
This man of God went into seminary with the faith of an Apostle. While afterward God used him to preach, teach, feed the poor, heal the sick, prophesy and many other ways it took a lot of undoing to get back to the simple faith in God's Word that he had before his bombardment at seminary. This is a common occurrence and sometimes the ruination of a young preacher.
No I do not expect you to understand nor to agree.
God bless you and keep you,
b(r)other Larry.

 

[Janette]

The dreaded "also" of gloomy doomness!

This thread didn't make two pages in length and already it is heated and divided. There's a reason people say the Devil is in the details.

I don't remember who mentioned apologetics, but we're not engaged in that practice. This thread was one of hermeneutics before it descended into unproductive argument. If we must use big words to describe bible study, then let us at least use the correct ones.

I'm going to drag the first verse given in the thread through some intense investigation and hopefully answer a bunch of questions in the process. You are all welcome to join me or not as pleases you, but this discipline does not lend to brevity.

>>I believe the word of God to be "God breathed". Paul and Peter both confirmed this in their epistles: the Bible testifies that the Bible is True.<<

With respect, you are assuming too much to say that "God-breathed" == True.

That is not what is written in either English or Greek. While I will agree that all Scripture is true, I cannot comfortably agree from Scripture that "God-breathed" can be taken to mean "true." Greek is not lacking for words that mean true, and none of them were used.

---

What was written in 2 Timothy 3:16 was

πασα γραφη θεοπνευστος και ωφελιμος προς διδασκαλιαν, προς ελεγμον, προς επανορθωσιν, προς παιδειαν την εν δικαιοσυνη (bolding mine)

The KJV says, in English “Every scripture is God-breathed and valuable for teaching, for refutation of error, for correction, for training in righteousness.” (italics mine)

Note that this specific verse doesn't mention truth. It mentions value and source. That's all. It doesn't even say Scripture is any good for historical reference or factually accurate. So we must examine nothing more than what this sentence says when translated from Greek to English, and whether it was done "correctly."

---

In Greek that lovely kai has two possible meanings that are absolutely equally valid grammatically.

The second possible translation for this verse is therefore as follows:
“Every God-breathed scripture is also valuable for teaching, for refutation of error, for correction, for training in righteousness.”

The difference in meaning is a bit subtle at first glance, but there is a difference. There is also absolutely nothing to make one translation obviously "better" than the other from grammatical rules, style, or even surrounding context.

So...either

EVERY Scripture is BOTH God-breathed AND valuable....or

Every Scripture which IS God-breathed (as opposed to some other scriptures which are not), IS ALSO valuable....

---

Most secular scholars prefer the latter translation to the former. That's no surprise, because it's the most human sentence of the two.

It makes "sense" to their spiritually dead minds that Paul would instruct Timothy to be able to identify "genuine" Scripture because of its value for societal forming and education. They don't believe in God. They believe in "good advice" or "philosophy" that "works" in practice and therefore gains credibility. Our little world is plagued with all sorts of isms born of such thinking.

But that's not really what the text says either, no matter which translation you choose. Even in the latter translation, the word isn't "because" it's "also."

---

Anyway let's ignore for now that this IS NOT the translation the authors of the KJV chose and assume the latter translation is correct.

What comes before the "also?"

If the God-breathed Scripture is ALSO valuable for all of the things Paul listed, what ELSE did it have in common? What factor common to all God-breathed Scripture sets it apart from other scripture in addition to the things Paul specifically mentioned? And what worth does all that other scripture have if it is not valuable in the ways Paul listed?

This translation just doesn't make complete sense unless you try to morph "also" into "because" like the secular scholars ... and the Greek construction here doesn't quite allow for that. It then becomes an incomplete thought that one could fill in with just about anything:

Every God-breathed Scripture (you know, the ones written in sparkles in the sky and copied down by dancing maids) ... those are ALSO valuable...

Every God-breathed Scripture (you know, the ones given to us by that seer who smokes opium and talks to ducks) ...those are ALSO valuable...

Every God-breathed Scripture (you know...the ones that.... )

You can try to be faithful and fill in something "nice" that you know based on your understanding of God's character, or you can insert something heretical and vile. But the one thing you cannot be sure of from the text is what goes in that slot.

Yet something must because of that pesky "also."

It's confusing to say the least.

Would our Lord, or even any human trying all on his own to faithfully write about Him, casually author such confusion? If your god is that vague you need to upgrade to a better one. My Lord is way more trustworthy than that, and guides everyone who tries to work for Him rightly. The authors of the KJV were by no means perfect, but they had the faith to understand this much.

---

Luckily We are not secular scholars doomed to natter and fret over the historical accuracies of Paul's letter to Timothy. Our Paul was a spiritual man, writing for a spiritual and supernatural God.

God wasn't writing a letter for Timothy. The Almighty God was writing a timeless, complete, revelatory Bible for all of us. He knew who would write something worth keeping, where it would be kept, how it would be translated and how it would be disputed. Trust Him to do right by us.

It then becomes easy to understand why, when faced with two "equally valid" interpretations, the editors of the KJV choose: "Every Scripture IS God-breathed AND is valuable...."

This far bolder statement shoots down the arguments of those who say they won't preach from or study the Laws of the Old Testament because that covenant is completed. It neatly absolves blushing mothers from any discomfort over reading the story of Lot (and his daughters) or the nastier bits of Judges to their children. It boldly stands toe to toe with the secularists who would dismiss "that crazy flood story" or "the obviously incorrect creation myth." It's the only one of the two that expresses a complete and closed thought.

And it wins, hands down.

Today no faithful person needs to know what is or is not Scripture. We need only be reminded that all that has been transmitted to us is breathed by God and valid and valuable.

But for those who stagger and stumble and fraternize with enemy texts masquerading as Scripture, the latter translation does add an additional warning: The God-breathed Scripture is valuable (approved, authenticated, having great worth) for shaping your life...the other myriad texts and philosophies and isms out there...aren't.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

>>> I believe the Bible to be infallible. It is the only infallible revelation of God's will. <<<

I believe the Lord is infallible.
The bible is a lovely book about Him...best we have.
But... bible =/= God.
It is simply a creation, as corrupt and fallen as the rest of Creation.
If the bible was the way and the light, Christ would have let us know.

Nevertheless, the Lord has His hand on the bible in all its forms because He always knew what importance people would lay upon it.

He didn't wait to start until 1609 when the KJV folks began their work, and He didn't stop with them in 1611 either. If the Bible is anything, it's a battlefield. The Devil and people with agendas will forever be trying to add to it or take from it.

Who do you think will win that battle?

Because and ONLY because God is infallible, I understand that the Bible is made infallible "warts and all" in its various developments throughout time. The world's current fetish for erasing major passages in modern translations isn't going to remove those passages from the extant manuscripts. Adding major passages (or whole books!) of dubious origin is not going to corrupt the message.

In the end, the Bible becomes "mythology" or Scripture depending on the faith and intent of those who read it:

People who are seeking loopholes for their secular lives will *always* find some missing book or mistranslation or whatever else they need to rationalize their folly.

People who are seeking the Lord will find Him, no matter how abridged or adulterated their copy of "the" Bible might be...or even if they never lay hands on one at all.

Remember that we worship the Lord, not the book that tells of Him, however completely. The first Christians did their work without a Bible. We last Christians in these final days should learn to rely more upon the Lord and less upon His book.

I know the day *will* come again when Christians no longer have the Scriptures as written text. I am torn between hoping I don't live to see it and hoping I do (because I have a nearly eidetic memory and hope to be of use to those who never got to read the Word). In those days we will have nothing left but the original command given to us - to spread the Good News to every creature. We'll do it in stories and parables and examples and bits of remembered text from what used to be Scripture, all while successfully from those who seek to destroy us until such time as the Lord brings us home, however He allows that to occur.

Who do you think will win that battle?

 

[Mark of Faith]

Janette,

With respect, for your look at the verses is thorough and enlightening, I would have to disagree with your comment that "God breathed does not = true."

I cannot name chapter and verse, but Scripture says "God cannot lie." Therefore, what He has breathed is true.

(It would take a lifetime, perhaps more, of Bible study to untangle what is historically accurate with what is not. Much was written through the subjective viewpoint of the writers, and needs to be looked at in light of cultural and historical setting.)

Mark.

P.S. I thought about that word, "infallible", after posting. There are parts of certain translations that I don't agree with, in their use of words and phrases. I would, as you Janette also indicate in your post, state that in reading, study and meditation of and on the word, it is the Holy Spirit's voice that we should be listening for, and to.

 

[Boanerges]

Also there seems to be a dispute of the superiority one translations vs another here. Some think one translation is inspired and the other false. It would take little effort to find dozens of scholars to support most positions on this,
One must truth that almighty God is bale to speak what He wants into his heart and life.