The Truth About Salvation

[james1523]

Hello James.

Matthew 5
11 Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil
against you because of Me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the
same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

How could a person be persecuted for Jesus Christ if the person does not declare that they
believe in Jesus Christ?

The prophets of old were not persecuted because they were better behaved than everyone
else. The prophets of old were persecuted directly, because they spoke the words God gave
them to speak. What the prophets spoke always conflicted with the general sentiment of
the crowd.

You quoted (John 12:42) to support your idea that people can remain silent about Jesus.
But for some unknown reason you neglected the rest of the verse, James. Here is the full
verse that states the opposite of what you claimed. This verse does not "shows clearly what"
you are saying, it states the opposite.

John 12:42
42 Nevertheless many even of the rulers believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they
were not confessing Him, for fear that they would be put out of the synagogue; 43 for they
loved the approval of men rather than the approval of God.

They did not confess because they preferred the approval of men, James. There must be the
confession of the belief in Jesus Christ otherwise the belief is not confirmed. Your choice
of verse was strangely enforcing the testimony of Jesus Christ. A faith that is not confessed
is not a faith by any means.

The rest of the verse does not negate the first part of the verse, which says they were believers. They were believers that were more afraid of men than of God.
This verse proves what I am saying, it is easy to believe in Christ, as these men did, but harder to live for Him, as these men did not. Were they genuine believers? They were as genuine as you or I, yet they were stumbled.
There are times and places when it is appropriate to talk about Jesus but there are times and places when it is not. The Westboro Baptist church is a great example of what not to do.

We should remember that Christ Himself spent about 30 years in growth before he started his ministry and faced persecution. There is no record that Christ was persecuted during his early years, yet obviously He was no less the Son of Man.

Yes James, we are less outspoken about most worldly topics but zealous to speak out about
Jesus Christ. I wonder what Paul would have thought of your interpretation?

Acts 20
9...Paul kept on talking, he was overcome by sleep and fell down from the third floor and
was picked up dead. 10 But Paul went down and fell upon him, and after embracing him,
he said, “Do not be troubled, for his life is in him.” 11 When he had gone back up and had
broken the bread and eaten, he talked with them a long while until daybreak, and then left.

Paul talked all night James, Paul never remained silent, even when the apostles were
instructed not to talk about Jesus they persisted.

Acts 4:18
And when they had summoned them, they commanded them not to speak or teach at all in
the name of Jesus.

The apostles did not speak about God, the apostles did everything in the name of Jesus Christ.

I do not know what Paul would have thought, maybe you should ask Paul what he thinks? In Acts 20 Paul was preaching to believers in a private meeting room. Why? Because if he did that on the street they would all be arrested. I know a number of street evangelists and others who talk about Jesus boldly and loudly any time and any place, and what is the result? They chase everyone away. Big difference between a Christian and a zealot.

Whenever a person who claims to be a Christian and does not mention the name of Jesus Christ I am wary
James. Instead of 'praising God' they should have been praising the name of Jesus Christ.

Colossians 3:17
Whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks through Him to God the Father.

You've changed topic now DHC, about what name we should use when we engage in conversation. I agree it should be the name of Jesus.

But "in the name of Jesus" really means in unity with and in representation of the person of Jesus. Adding "in Jesus name" to the end of prayers and using the name of Jesus as a magic word is a formulaic practice of religion. This is proved by the sons of Sceva who used the name of Jesus to cast out demons, but they were not identified with the person of Christ.

 

[judge not]

Jesus told us that we should now pray directly to God the Father.and He showed us how to do it - Matt 6:9

Paul told the church to direct their prayers and worship directly to God the Father. Romans 15:30

We now have straight access to our Father in heaven.

on the other issue of eternal life, following the understanding that we have it now is following a pagan tradition and that is in direct conflict with the word of God.

stop following myths and honor God by believing what He says. That is the first step to repentance.

 

[james1523]

Jesus told us that we should now pray directly to God the Father.and He showed us how to do it - Matt 6:9

Paul told the church to direct their prayers and worship directly to God the Father. Romans 15:30

We now have straight access to our Father in heaven.

on the other issue of eternal life, following the understanding that we have it now is following a pagan tradition and that is in direct conflict with the word of God.

stop following myths and honor God by believing what He says. That is the first step to repentance.

The Bible clearly says we have eternal life now:

John 5:24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Basically if we have Christ now, we have eternal life now, because He is the life.

If we want to know what is pagan - it is pagan to worship and pray to the Father, Son and Spirit as 3 gods, that is what is pagan. Pagan trinity gods were common including
Mithra-Vohu Mana-Rashnu, Amen-Mut-Khonsu, and Osiris-Isis-Horus. If they are the same God, then it doesn't matter to whom we pray, Jesus or the Father. Christians pray to Jesus - if we don't pray to Jesus we are not Christians, we are Jews, Muslims or some other religion.

 

[DHC]

Jesus told us that we should now pray directly to God the Father.and He showed us how to do it - Matt 6:9

Hello Judgenot.

Jesus told us that we should now pray directly to God the Father.and He showed us
how to do it - Matt 6:9

Yes Judgenot, Jesus did show the disciples how to pray to their Father in heaven.

You get a tick for correctly reading those verses, Judgenot.

May I ask whom do you believe the Christ is?

 

[DHC]

Hello James.

There are times and places when it is appropriate to talk about Jesus but there are times
and places when it is not.

I find that there are few occasions when talking about Jesus is unwise.

The Westboro Baptist church is a great example of what not to do.

I know nothing of this Baptist church, so I cannot comment on this.

The apostle Paul instructs Timothy to preach and be ready, both in season and out of
season. There are no days off in the ministry and evangelism of the world!

2 Timothy 4
1 I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living
and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom: 2 preach the word; be ready in season
and out of season;

There is no record that Christ was persecuted during his early years, yet obviously He was no
less the Son of Man.

Correction James, the Christ was persecuted as soon as He was born. Did not Herod seek to
kill Him as an infant?

I know a number of street evangelists and others who talk about Jesus boldly and loudly any time
and any place, and what is the result? They chase everyone away. Big difference between a Christian
and a zealot.

What is observed on the surface is not indicative of what may be occurring underneath. Some folk
hear what is being said by these evangelists and do take it to heart. Even though they avoid the
public interaction.

But "in the name of Jesus" really means in unity with and in representation of the person of Jesus. Adding "in Jesus name"
to the end of prayers and using the name of Jesus as a magic word is a formulaic practice of religion. This is proved by the
sons of Sceva who used the name of Jesus to cast out demons, but they were not identified with the person of Christ.

The sons of Sceva did not believe in Jesus, need I comment?

 

[james1523]

Hello James.

I find that there are few occasions when talking about Jesus is unwise.

I know nothing of this Baptist church, so I cannot comment on this.

The apostle Paul instructs Timothy to preach and be ready, both in season and out of
season. There are no days off in the ministry and evangelism of the world!

2 Timothy 4
1 I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living
and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom: 2 preach the word; be ready in season
and out of season;

Correction James, the Christ was persecuted as soon as He was born. Did not Herod seek to
kill Him as an infant?

What is observed on the surface is not indicative of what may be occurring underneath. Some folk
hear what is being said by these evangelists and do take it to heart. Even though they avoid the
public interaction.

The sons of Sceva did not believe in Jesus, need I comment?

Hello DHC, yes I stand corrected about the persecution statement. Yet Jesus's ministry did not start until much later in his life.

In any case, John 12:42 stands alone, which proves we can believe in Christ yet be silent.

 

[RJ]

Hello DHC, yes I stand corrected about the persecution statement. Yet Jesus's ministry did not start until much later in his life.

In any case, John 12:42 stands alone, which proves we can believe in Christ yet be silent.

• I am sorry but, the whole point about keeping silent, is not the same here. Those being persecuted yes but after I was saved, I had to tell someone!
• Again the best verse that I have found is in Romans 8:16
• I feel very blessed that it happened to me the way it did. I knew it instantly and can remember the exact time and date.
• I don't know how that works for others. I talked to one of the Patriarchs in our church once and asked her when she was saved...she said "Well, I have been going to this church for 60 years"!...that's not what I asked. It is not for me to say; I guess many are saved but can't say when exactly....for them, it is much harder to share their faith. For the most part, they would just rather be silent.

 

[judge not]

Hello Judgenot.


Yes Judgenot, Jesus did show the disciples how to pray to their Father in heaven.

You get a tick for correctly reading those verses, Judgenot.

May I ask whom do you believe the Christ is?

Jesus of Nazareth I believe is the Christ.
He is the Son of God and the Son of man.
He was the prophesied Messiah of the Old Testament and is described in the NT as being fully human AND fully divine.
as the second member of the God family He existed throughout eternity as the " Word "
He divested Himself of His power and His majesty and became a human being to die for the sins of all mankind as our loving and merciful Savior.
He was then resurrected and ascended to heaven to become our High Priest.
Jesus Christ promised to return to establish the Kingdom of God on earth, and rule as Kings of Kings with His saints forever.

 

[RJ]

Jesus told us that we should now pray directly to God the Father.and He showed us how to do it - Matt 6:9

Paul told the church to direct their prayers and worship directly to God the Father. Romans 15:30

We now have straight access to our Father in heaven.

on the other issue of eternal life, following the understanding that we have it now is following a pagan tradition and that is in direct conflict with the word of God.

stop following myths and honor God by believing what He says. That is the first step to repentance.

I am not overtly zealous about this but I have some questions about the Lord's Prayer as in Matthew 6:9.
Jesus gave this to the disciples under the law and fully expected them to pray like this on a daily basis.
For example, forgive others, good but, he also said to ask for forgiveness daily.

Let's don't start a stir here, I love the Lord's prayer but it was given under the law, and I think the idea here was to ask for forgiveness every day which, like other commandments, would be another daily requirement.
We should most definitely have a repentant heart and allow the Holy Spirit to correct and refine us, urging us to be more Christ like.
But, under the Law of Grace, when it comes to daily asking for forgiveness, I would think God may ask, why do you come to me for something I have already provided? Just a thought about the power of grace.

 

[DHC]

Hello DHC, yes I stand corrected about the persecution statement. Yet Jesus's ministry did not start until much later in his life.

In any case, John 12:42 stands alone, which proves we can believe in Christ yet be silent.

Hello James.

The scripture does not seem to support the idea, that a Christian can be silent about the name
of the Christ.

Romans 10
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised
Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in
righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Paul directly connects the confession of Jesus as Lord to salvation.

Matthew 10
32 Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father
who is in heaven.

Jesus puts particular emphasis on this confession.

Hebrews 4:14
Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus
the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.

The confession of Jesus Christ is something that we hold fast.

Hebrews 10:23
Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful;

Always confess Jesus Christ and do not waiver in this testimony, it is life long.

1 John 2:23
Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also.

You must confess the Son and in doing so you have fellowship with the Father.

1 John 4:15
Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.

Silence is not golden when it concerns the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The confession is part
of the Gospel requirement and we are given no option but to confess, come what may.

 

[james1523]

Hello James.

The scripture does not seem to support the idea, that a Christian can be silent about the name
of the Christ.

Romans 10
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised
Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in
righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Paul directly connects the confession of Jesus as Lord to salvation.

Matthew 10
32 Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father
who is in heaven.

Jesus puts particular emphasis on this confession.

Hebrews 4:14
Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus
the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.

The confession of Jesus Christ is something that we hold fast.

Hebrews 10:23
Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful;

Always confess Jesus Christ and do not waiver in this testimony, it is life long.

1 John 2:23
Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also.

You must confess the Son and in doing so you have fellowship with the Father.

1 John 4:15
Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.

Silence is not golden when it concerns the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The confession is part
of the Gospel requirement and we are given no option but to confess, come what may.

John 12:42 clearly shows that we may believe in Christ and yet not be open about it, and yet these ones had eternal life:

John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life

They were as Christian as anyone who confesses openly, they received the same Spirit that everyone else had.

Yes the confession is important but lack of confession does not mean there is no belief in the heart.

Confession can sometimes come much later after belief.

 

[james1523]

Jesus of Nazareth I believe is the Christ.
He is the Son of God and the Son of man.
He was the prophesied Messiah of the Old Testament and is described in the NT as being fully human AND fully divine.
as the second member of the God family He existed throughout eternity as the " Word "
He divested Himself of His power and His majesty and became a human being to die for the sins of all mankind as our loving and merciful Savior.
He was then resurrected and ascended to heaven to become our High Priest.
Jesus Christ promised to return to establish the Kingdom of God on earth, and rule as Kings of Kings with His saints forever.

Do you believe that Jesus is God? and that Jesus is one with the Father? yes or no?

It seems you believe that Jesus is only a secondary member of God, when the Bible is clear that He is God.

 

[james1523]

• I am sorry but, the whole point about keeping silent, is not the same here. Those being persecuted yes but after I was saved, I had to tell someone!
• Again the best verse that I have found is in Romans 8:16
• I feel very blessed that it happened to me the way it did. I knew it instantly and can remember the exact time and date.
• I don't know how that works for others. I talked to one of the Patriarchs in our church once and asked her when she was saved...she said "Well, I have been going to this church for 60 years"!...that's not what I asked. It is not for me to say; I guess many are saved but can't say when exactly....for them, it is much harder to share their faith. For the most part, they would just rather be silent.

It's very true when we are first saved we are so excited we must tell anyone and everyone, due to uncontrollable zeal. But we are still infants in the faith. Sadly, in many countries this kind of behavior will get you thrown into prison or killed. Not a very smart thing to do if we have a family that depends on us and a ministry that God wants us to undertake. We must also exercise wisdom. Just like we run water along a pipe and electricity along wires.. so that it can accomplish what we want it to do, we must speak our words in the right way and the right time, so they are most effective. Otherwise it is like a fire out of control. This maturity is evident in the life of Jesus - Jesus had the most to be excited about, but He wasn't dancing in the street and hollering the fact that He was the Son of God, Jesus didn't "just have to tell someone". I know some people like this and the result is that people won't listen to them because they think they are out of their mind and they cannot hold a "normal" conversation with people.

As we grow we learn that exercising restraint, self-control, even in spiritual matters, is a mark of a mature and loving Christian (1 Cor 14:32). When it was Jesus's time to be persecuted and killed, it happened. But we must understand all things are under God's sovereignty. He never asks us to seek persecution or call it upon ourselves, but He says it will happen. It will happen under His arrangement and timing. We will know when it is in accordance with His will and when we should submit to it, when we should run from it, and when we should stand against it. I find that sometimes in Pentecostal churches, when people feel something from the Spirit they then proceed to shout it out without due regard for timing or other people. While it is great they are experiencing something of the Spirit, this is a sign of their immaturity not of their maturity.

So yes, on the one hand we must not be silent. On the other hand, we must speak with wisdom according to the Father's will and timing. Sometimes what we say can cause more harm that if we had not said anything at all, even if what we say is right. I find this is my biggest problem. If we fail to speak the truth when God wants us to speak it, it is sin. It is also sin to speak when God does not want us to speak.

The Bible says that the Gospel must be spread to the whole world. This is our "vision" and God's general will. And yet on the other hand in practice, we must do it in accordance with the Spirit, who at times may forbid us to speak at certain times and places: Acts 16:6 The Spirit of Holiness forbade them to speak the word of God in Asia.

When we look back in history, we find that the gospel has spread not in a haphazard way (God is a God of order), but in a very definitive way from place to place, starting in Jerusalem, and all of this is under God's hand and design. So it is not God's way, for millions of Christians around the world to be haphazardly preaching the gospel anywhere and everywhere out of spiritual zeal. This is like casting our net randomly anywhere we like, hoping to catch some fish. Instead of listening to God telling us where exactly to cast our nets (John 21:6). I believe Jesus was teaching his disciples that to catch men, they must rely upon and listen to Him, and not merely cast their nets anywhere they feel like.

 

[judge not]

Do you believe that Jesus is God? and that Jesus is one with the Father? yes or no?

It seems you believe that Jesus is only a secondary member of God, when the Bible is clear that He is God.

I believe Jesus is God and that they are a composite unit - John 10:30 - " I and my Father are one "

John 5:23 - " all should honor the Son just as they honor the father "

Titus 2:13 - " the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ"

Jesus is also referred to as the true God -John 5:20

remember Thomas in John 20:28 exclaiming " My Lord and my God '

some bible scholars think Jesus and the Father are equal in nature as one but Jesus is functionally subordinate or submissive to the Father.

what do you say to that understanding?

 

[james1523]

I believe Jesus is God and that they are a composite unit - John 10:30 - " I and my Father are one "

John 5:23 - " all should honor the Son just as they honor the father "

Titus 2:13 - " the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ"

Jesus is also referred to as the true God -John 5:20

remember Thomas in John 20:28 exclaiming " My Lord and my God '

some bible scholars think Jesus and the Father are equal in nature as one but Jesus is functionally subordinate or submissive to the Father.

what do you say to that understanding?

I agree. Right now, the Father has subjected all things to Christ, and I believe that Jesus is and will be subordinate to the Father(1 Cor 15:28) and the Father is the Head of Christ (1 Corinthians 11:3).

 

[RJ]

I agree. Right now, the Father has subjected all things to Christ, and I believe that Jesus is and will be subordinate to the Father(1 Cor 15:28) and the Father is the Head of Christ (1 Corinthians 11:3).

• We are the branch
• Jesus is the Vine
• God is the Vine Dresser
• John 15:1-11.....1 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch of mine that bears no fruit, he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already made clean by the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. 5 I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in me, and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If a man does not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned. 7 If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you will, and it shall be done for you. 8 By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be my disciples. 9 As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you; abide in my love. 10 If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love. 11 These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full.

 

[judge not]

I am not overtly zealous about this but I have some questions about the Lord's Prayer as in Matthew 6:9.
Jesus gave this to the disciples under the law and fully expected them to pray like this on a daily basis.
For example, forgive others, good but, he also said to ask for forgiveness daily.

Let's don't start a stir here, I love the Lord's prayer but it was given under the law, and I think the idea here was to ask for forgiveness every day which, like other commandments, would be another daily requirement.
We should most definitely have a repentant heart and allow the Holy Spirit to correct and refine us, urging us to be more Christ like.
But, under the Law of Grace, when it comes to daily asking for forgiveness, I would think God may ask, why do you come to me for something I have already provided? Just a thought about the power of grace.

I think Jesus gave us the Lord's prayer as a guideline or example about how we should pray.
Since Jesus condemns vain repetitions, religious rote would not do service towards our worship.
I remember having to do 10 hail Mary's and 5 Our Father's as penance for any sin I confessed to our local priest.
There was no real repentance in just reciting those prayers over and over again.

Grace does not replace the Laws of God-having grace requires a lot of work from us still - Romans 6:11-16

 

[RJ]

I think Jesus gave us the Lord's prayer as a guideline or example about how we should pray.
Since Jesus condemns vain repetitions, religious rote would not do service towards our worship.
I remember having to do 10 hail Mary's and 5 Our Father's as penance for any sin I confessed to our local priest.
There was no real repentance in just reciting those prayers over and over again.

Grace does not replace the Laws of God-having grace requires a lot of work from us still - Romans 6:11-16

I am definitely not disagreeing with you on the Lord's Prayer. But, I feel compelled to better understand what was truly going on when the prayer was given...to the Disciples but, including Jesus, they all were still under the law and the Old Covenant.
I have to agree with the 10 Hail Mary's and 5 Our Father's, not too sure about any true repentance for some. Nothing should take the place of the Holy Spirit convicting you personally. I never understood referring to a man as Priest or Father either, Jesus is our only true priest and we can go directly to him. And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven: Matthew 23:9

 

[james1523]

But, I feel compelled to better understand what was truly going on when the prayer was given...to the Disciples but, including Jesus, they all were still under the law and the Old Covenant.

Yes at that time the disciples were taught to pray the Father.

Later on, Jesus told them they could believe in and pray to Him as well in John 14.

And by the time of Acts, praying to Jesus was commonplace.

John 14:1 Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me.

John 14:11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves.

John 14:13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

Some say you can't pray to Jesus you can only pray to the Father, as if they are two separate Gods.

But as verse 11 reveals, Jesus is in the Father and the Father is in Him.

And when we pray to Jesus we glorify the Father. I propose that if we don't pray to Jesus, we don't glorify the Father. Prayer is an act of worship, and if we don't pray to Jesus we don't give Him worth, and I believe this dishonors the Father who places so much pride and importance in His Son.

When we pray to Jesus we are not praying only to the Son of God and the Father is somewhere else - when we pray to Jesus we are praying to the one who is in the Father and who has the Father in Him. So in effect when we pray to Jesus we are praying to the Son and the Father at the same time.

 

[judge not]

Yes at that time the disciples were taught to pray the Father.

Later on, Jesus told them they could believe in and pray to Him as well in John 14.

And by the time of Acts, praying to Jesus was commonplace.

John 14:1 Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me.

John 14:11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves.

John 14:13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

Some say you can't pray to Jesus you can only pray to the Father, as if they are two separate Gods.

But as verse 11 reveals, Jesus is in the Father and the Father is in Him.

And when we pray to Jesus we glorify the Father. I propose that if we don't pray to Jesus, we don't glorify the Father. Prayer is an act of worship, and if we don't pray to Jesus we don't give Him worth, and I believe this dishonors the Father who places so much pride and importance in His Son.

When we pray to Jesus we are not praying only to the Son of God and the Father is somewhere else - when we pray to Jesus we are praying to the one who is in the Father and who has the Father in Him. So in effect when we pray to Jesus we are praying to the Son and the Father at the same time.

While we pray to the Father through Jesus, Acts 7:59 as an example shows it is no sin to pray directly to Jesus.
Through the office and authority-" name" we can now directly approach God in prayer and worship.
we don't need a human priest as an intercessor anymore.because we have the greatest High Priest-Jesus Christ
earlier I may have implied we only pray to the Father but it is true that we can pray to Jesus.
The disciples in the NT repeatedly applied titles denoting divinity to Jesus.-the same titles used in the OT
There are many texts equating Yahweh with Jesus