The true church

[bgsda]

Truth there is alot of misconceptions about the Sabbath. See the Jews made so many harsh rules in so much that today they can't even press a button on a elevator on the Sabbath. back then they made it very rigourous. if you can see who is behind this you would see its Satan.
can i ask you something if you know that the Sabbath is on saturday and not sunday which day do you attend? Can we make anything holy? The Sabbath originated in Eden before sin entered this world Gen.2:3. Was kept by Jesus Luke4:16. was kept by disciples all throughtout the book of Acts. Acts 13:13-16,37-39,42-44/16:13,14/18:1-4. I can keep going but I think you got the point. And will be kept in Heaven Isaiah 66:22,23. Yes truth we do baptise in the name of Jesus. Some do speak in unknown tongue or language, but not jibberish. Real language. Like I said before don't be deceived truth search it out more and obey God not what most people think they know.
To david

 

[bgsda]

David I dont know if you know but we as in Chrisians are Spiritual Israel. You can find that in Rom. chpt 9. Dont know if you really read my last reply but I did mention what Jesus said in Heb.8:10 right? David you really have to STUDY not just read but STUDY the difference between the law that God wrote and the law that Moses wrote. The law that was placed inside the ark Ex.40:20. And the law that was placed in the side of the ark Deut. 31:26. Two diff. laws. Then you have to reread what paul wrote and differentiate which law paul is talking about. David you said the law applies to the which law? And which law is Spiritual Rom.7:14? You NEED to study this. God Bless

 

[David777]

Hello bgsda I decided to answer your posts line by line.

No doubt you would be happy with this approach.

Sorry to inform you that now you must address my comments
in your posts. Laborious to say the least but we could never
understand a church unless we know the true Gospel of
Jesus Christ, could we now bgsda.

Here is your first post;

"David I dont know if you know but we as in Chrisians are Spiritual Israel. You can find

that in Rom. chpt 9. Dont know if you really read my last reply but I did mention what

Jesus said in Heb.8:10 right? David you really have to STUDY not just read but STUDY"
Here is your last post bqsda.

the difference between the law that God wrote and the law that Moses wrote. The law

that was placed inside the ark Ex.40:20. And the law that was placed in the side of the ark

Deut. 31:26. Two diff. laws. Then you have to reread what paul wrote and differentiate

which law paul is talking about. David you said the law applies to the which law? And

which law is Spiritual Rom.7:14? You NEED to study this. God Bless

I will answer your first post statement by statement.

I am well aware that the Old Testament was a shadow
of the New Testament bgsda. I am fully aware that
Christians are spiritual members of the New Covenant.
A spiritual Israel that is based above, based on the power of
God himself namely the death and resurrection of
Jesus Christ. No problem yet bgsda.

Now I will quote the first lines of Romans Chapter 9
to provide context for later lines. This is the correct
way to read and understand every letter. Context is
the correct path to follow otherwise error is encountered.

Let's consult Romans 9 and consider the context.

Romans 9

1 I am telling the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience testifies with me in the

Holy Spirit,

2 that I have great sorrow and unceasing grief in my heart.

3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed, separated from Christ for the sake of my

brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh,

4 who are Israelites, to whom belongs the adoption as sons, and the glory and the

covenants and the giving of the Law and the temple service and the promises,

5 whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over

all, God blessed forever. Amen.

Notice I highlighted lines 3 &4, this is very important bqsda.

Covenants, law, temple and promises, these are the
features of the covenant God established with physical
Israel. Not with the Gentiles bgsda, Paul does not mention
the Gentiles. So I am already aware at this stage that Paul
is talking about the old covenant. Paul is grieved by his
fellow Jewish brothers and sisters (kinsmen).

From these 5 lines bgsda we know that Paul has been discussing
in previous chapters the Jewish problem. This problem is Law and
Grace and how they have been reconciled in Christ from a
Jewish perspective. Of course Gentiles are not included in this
discourse. Paul is grieved that Israel (physical) has not accepted
the Gospel of Grace.

This is where many readers err, they assume that
in Romans 7 when Paul discusses the sinful nature and
references the law that they assume the Gentile has the same
reference point. Not so the Gentiles are not included in the
old covenant. Mosiac law is meaningless to a Gentile.

If you disagree bqsda then you are at odds with the first 5 lines
of Romans 9. In fact you will find your understanding contrary
to the entire New Testament. Context is king when reading the Bible.

If you are a studious reader you would have noticed that Paul has been
directly addressing the Jews since Romans 2:17. You are not alone
if you never realized this fact about Romans. Many ships have been
wrecked that disregarded the intent of the author in Romans.

Now we move on, sadly I leave Romans my favorite letter.

Next line you stated that Hebrews 8:10 was significant.
In context I will read Hebrews 8:10 so;

Hebrews 8:10-13

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought

for a second.

8 For finding fault with them, He says,

“ Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,

When I will effect a new covenant

With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;

9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers

On the day when I took them by the hand

To lead them out of the land of Egypt;

For they did not continue in My covenant,

And I did not care for them, says the Lord.

10 “ For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel

After those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their minds,

And I will write them on their hearts. And I will be their God,

And they shall be My people.

11 “ And they shall not teach everyone his fellow citizen,

And everyone his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’

For all will know Me, From the least to the greatest of them.

12 “ For I will be merciful to their iniquities, And I will remember their sins no more.”

13 When He said, “ A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is

becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

Well a few more lines in addition to Hebrews 8:10 and we
hae a much clearer view of the landscape do we not.

A New Covenant the old is obsolete, that's correct
the old covenant between God and Israel (flesh) is
obsolete. A Jewish letter to a Jewish audience that's
Hebrews.

Now more precisley Hebrews 8:10, what law is the
unknown author of Hebrews referring to you might
ask bqsda. Let scripture interpret scripture shall we.

From the expansion of Hebrews 8:10 we know firstly
that this law does not comprise the old covenant does
it now bqsda. The old covenant is obs...

Let's have a peek at Romans again to find
this new law, this new covenant that will be written
within us by the Spirit.

Romans 8

1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and

of death.

3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His

own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the

flesh,

4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according

to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Read line 2 again if you like bqsda. What has been written
in our hearts and minds, Jesus Christ. This is the law you are
now under, the Law of the Spirit of Life itself. Further laws
would be "love God with all your...." and "love others as..."
Note also that for the Jews the law has been fulfilled line 4.
It is not possible for Jesus to fulfill the law for a Gentile,
we were never given it in the first place, we never had it bqsda.
Context, context.

Shall we continue bqsda.

You stated that there is a difference between the law that God
wrote and the law Moses wrote. God etched the ten commandments
in stone bqsda. Moses wrote what he was told to write.

Regardless of your understanding of a distinction that does
not really exist. The law is the fabric of the old, obsolete covenant
that God made with Israel (physical).

Bgsda it is vitally important that you read the Bible in context.

Jesus was a Jew addressing a Jewish audience first.

Many letters such as Matthews are full of Jewish terms, no
wonder Matthew was a Jew addressing a Jewish audience.
I am not surprised that some of your earlier quotes were from
Matthews Gospel. All legalists quote from Matthew and James.

If you try to understand the Gospel of Matthew from a Gentile
mind set you will absorb the law and Christ's sacrifice will
be null and void. Authorship, authors intent, intended target
audience, etc, is vital to understand correctly what the Gospel
of Jesus Christ is.

We are Gentiles, filthy, unclean without the old covenant. To
a Jew we are worth no more than dogs. Alas, we have been grafted
in to the tree of life thru Jesus. For this I am forever grateful to
our Lord and master Jesus Christ.

Certainly not Jesus and an obsolete covenant, but Jesus alone.

The name above all names.

Please reply bqsda.

 

[bgsda]

David I see that you agree with my last reply and didn't even notice it. Rom.7: 14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. You seemed to have missed that, because your right we are spiritual members of the new covenant. The law is spiritual. Not Moses Law. Rom.7:12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good. Or Rom.7:22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. Remember this is the same writer. Bible cannot contradict itself or cause confusion. thats only of the devil.

David you seem to be like the people that peter was talking in 2Pet.3:15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation--as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. See Paul wrote some hard things to understand. You just have to dig some more and come before him with humility. See David everyone else in the Bible, including Paul, says we ought to keep gods Commandments. i can give you like 25 verses of diff. writers in the Bible that will tell you that its a must to keep Gods Commandments. You can only show me paul. Something is wrong there especially with what peter wrote about pauls wisdom that not even peter really knew. now Im not saying that you are twisting it on purpose im just saying stop holding on to what you assume is right and come before Him as a babe. you will find the Truth.

Another thing is that in hebrews 8:10 do you not know that the verse is for us spiritual israel. That is our new covenant. Not literal Jews because they dont even believe Jesus is God. That is a whole other topic. acts 13:45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy; and contradicting and blaspheming, they opposed the things spoken by Paul. 46 Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, "It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles. So many other scriptures on that as well. So you should read it again and see where we must have the law written. Cant be abolished if it should be in our minds and hearts.

David did you read Rom 8 about since the Law was weak God send his Son(NOT TO ABOLISH) but that the requirements of the Law be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but the Spirit. Did you get that? You should be convicted read it over and over. AMEN. Did you read verse 6-8 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. Dont know about you but I wanna please God and not be an enemy. See that is why we ought to keep his Law, Ten commandments, not only so we can thru Christ stop sinning but to please God. Remember what was said in alot of verses. John 14:15 "If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever. See the Holy spirit draws near when we stop in continual sin. Or John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love. Jesus kept them that is why we can say He was without sin. Hope this helps you on your journey to find truth David . i'll keep you in prayer.

Remember the focus is to distinguish Gods end time church or peoples in these last days. Narrow is the way to salvation. One verse that stuck out to me when i was fighting God on this was in Matt. 7:22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness. I dont know about you but these people seemed like powerful, holy Christians. If they were alive now they would be on T.V and have a megachurch wouldnt you say? But Jesus will tell them "I never knew you". Why? We have to stop practicing lawlessness or breaking of His law. Out of love and obedience we keep it not that it'll make us righteous. To please and to show him how much we love him.

Little insight do you know where the Ten Commandments are now? Read Rev. 11:19. Little FYI. Isnt that awesome he took it with Him to heaven. In the most holy place in heaven. God bless. Oh David that contextual thing you said well somethings it can throw you off. In isaiah days almost all the priests and prophets were filled with false doctrines and erred so isaiah inspired by the holy spirit wrote and showed Gods people how to search the Scriptures Isa.28:9 "Whom will he teach knowledge? And whom will he make to understand the message? Those just weaned from milk? Those just drawn from the breasts? 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little." The same holy Spirit wrote the same thing thru paul in 1Cor2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. Jesus did the same when He gave people Bible Studies Luke 23:25 Then He said to them, "O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?" 27 And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself. You see David not just taken a verse that only one person might have said and running with it. Jesus showed them all that the PROPHETS have spoken. Whatever point one tries to make should prayerfully be proven. This point should be the same throughout all Scripture the O.T and N.T. The Holy Spirit will not lead anyone to confusion that is something the devil and we ourselves do. God bless

 

[Brad Huber]

The terms saturday and sunday didnt even exist in ancient Isreal. That came with the Julian Calender. And I do believe that it was named after the Roman Emperor Julias Ceaser, but it was invented by the Romans. The jews used a greater light to rule the day and a lesser light to rule the night, to keep track of time. The lighted time was day, and the dark time was night, and one lunar cycle was a month, and so on. So both saturday and sunday are not valid days of rest all the time, although they no doubt do occur on those days once in awhile. Simply observing a day of rest once a week is enough.

 

[bgsda]

Hi brad how are you? Are you new? Welcome. Brad I know they used to go by days and they still do I believe the Jews. The point is we are talking about characteristics of Gods end time church or people. They will be keeping Gods commandments as you can read all the reply's. theres one that many avoid or just simply dont know about. Brad you are mistaken to say that we can sanctify, bless, or make any other day holy. God said the seventh-day .

There are people in the past that we can learn from their mistakes of mixing the common with the holy. lets take Nadab and Abihu they offered strange fire when god told them holy fire . Lev.10. How can i forget cain and Abel. Both offered sacrafices but one offered what he thought God wanted. or beltshazzar how he mixed the holy with profane and god was not happy. We cannot make anything holy or sanctify anything Brad. If you are married and your anniversary is coming up and you choose to celebrate it two days after because oh we'll choose another day im sure she wouldn't be happy. well that is what many people do each week to our Lord and Savior. God bless

 

[Brad Huber]

Hi brad how are you? Are you new? Welcome. Brad I know they used to go by days and they still do I believe the Jews. The point is we are talking about characteristics of Gods end time church or people. They will be keeping Gods commandments as you can read all the reply's. theres one that many avoid or just simply dont know about. Brad you are mistaken to say that we can sanctify, bless, or make any other day holy. God said the seventh-day .

There are people in the past that we can learn from their mistakes of mixing the common with the holy. lets take Nadab and Abihu they offered strange fire when god told them holy fire . Lev.10. How can i forget cain and Abel. Both offered sacrafices but one offered what he thought God wanted. or beltshazzar how he mixed the holy with profane and god was not happy. We cannot make anything holy or sanctify anything Brad. If you are married and your anniversary is coming up and you choose to celebrate it two days after because oh we'll choose another day im sure she wouldn't be happy. well that is what many people do each week to our Lord and Savior. God bless

If we have the Spirit of God inside us, we indeed can santify many things in the name of Jesus. When you drive out demons from a person, you are sancitfying them, when from a house, you are sanctifying it. The Isrealites sanctified the temple grounds. The sanctification comes from God, but it is done very often from human hands. You must be living a fearful life to think all is ungodly all around you. The Lord doesnt sanctify any of us without our will to do so involved. Thats called repentence and turing to the Lord. The Lord choses to use unworthy people to sanctify many things. Where is it you were taught such a thing about sanctification?

 

[truth speaker]

Hi bgsda well to be honest i go to church on Sunday, and also i did a little research and found something that i thought was pretty good.
Acts ch2 vs 1(And the day of Pentecost had fully come,they were all with one accord in one place.)The day of Pentecost i found was on a Sunday,
Acts ch 2 vs 15 ( For these are not drunken,as ye suppose,seeing it is but the third hour of the day.) I put this Scripture just for a time reference,so that you understand we are still on the same day as i jump ahead a few Scriptures
Acts ch 3 vs 1(Now Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer,being the ninth hour.) Now seeing how it is still Sunday,what you mean to tell me their having church on Sunday,Now if you go to the beginning of the book of Acts you will find that they where traveling on the Sabbath they were not in church or assembled until Sunday
Acts ch 1 vs 12 (Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet,which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.)Question???did the apostles forsake the sabbath by traveling and assembling themselves together on Sunday

Something great happened on this Sunday,God poured out his spirit on all those in the upper room,they where all filled with the SWEET HOLY GHOST,AMEN
All this happened on Sunday,So did Jesus Christ himsrlf forsake the Sabbath,Also Jesus told the apostles to go and wai, not to depart until they received the promise of the Father,God could have waited until yhe Sabbath,but he chose Sunday to pour out his Spirit

So if Jesus Christ himself will have chuch on Sunday,I'm with him Amen

 

[truth speaker]

Oh and one more important piece of info bgsda
The birth of the new covenant began on Sunday,That very day of Pentecost
This was the day the law changed forever,from physical to spiritual
wow what a mighty God we serve

And it all happened on SUNDAY

 

[bgsda]

truth the disciples met and broke bread DAILY at peoples houses Acts 2:46 So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart. you see truth they were all together for a while after christs death at least 40 days or more in Acts 1:3 to whom He also presented Himself alive after His suffering by many infallible proofs, being seen by them during forty days and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God. 4 And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, "which," He said, "you have heard from Me. Truth to say that he Pentecost day was on a sunday after 40 days sounds off.

Truth were are you getting this information if its not Biblical. By the way do you know that gives us the Holy Spirit if we OBEY HIM Acts 5:32 And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him. Would you like to start to obey His Commandments and be one of His end time people or Church.

Truth to be honest you can get the most influencial pastor like a T.D Jakes or whoever and they will never find that the Bible Sabbath was either done away with or changed by God. It was so unchangeable that Christ had to come down and go thru the cross because it cannot be changed. If it can be changed or done away with then Christ did not have to do what He did. Think about it. God could've given us another moral Law and christ wouldn't have to suffer.

I have given you alot of info to think about. I really hope you study it out and that the Holy Spirit will lead you. Very important and you should not run to anyone else. Study to shor YOURSELF approved unto GOD. did not the verse in Isaiah 66:22 "For as the new heavens and the new earth Which I will make shall remain before Me," says the Lord, "So shall your descendants and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass That from one New Moon to another, And from one Sabbath to another, All flesh shall come to worship before Me," says the Lord, at least have you to believe there still is a Sabbath here and now. Truth i'll keep you in prayer. Keep searching and dont give up. You dont want to be caught up in this 2thess.2:9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. Believe in the love of the truth, truth. Not some idea or tradition or commandment of men.

 

[brakelite]

The Remnant

The word remnant means literally "the final piece of the original". It can refer to the last piece of material on a bolt of cloth; the last piece of cake on a plate; or the last of God's people on the earth. But one thing remains constant. The last piece is identical to the first.
Therefore to find the remnant church of these last days, it might pay to study the scriptures to see what the originals believed in. Allow me to remind you of some key beliefs of the original people of God.

• They kept one day aside each week, the 7th day, solely for worshiping God and spending with family. Why the 7th day? Because that particular day was the day sanctified and made holy by God Himself. And God hasn't unsanctified it or made it unholy. Only we can do that by 'not remembering it'. (See Exodus 20:8)
• The remnant concept has been repeated throughout history. Noah and his family were the first. Noah had a 'last days message' or warning of impending judgement. And he was saved by grace, having found 'grace in the sight of God'. His message of rightousness by faith was ignored by the majority.
• The next 'remnant' would likely have been Abraham. He also had a message, being faithful to the 'one God' in the midst of a culture that worshiped idols. Abraham's God was distinct from all other false gods by the simple fact that Abraham's God is the Creator. Abraham also kept God's commandments, his faith accounted as righteousness. Same faith as Noah. Same righteousness. Same obedience.
• After a long time in captivity during which nearly all knowledge of the one true God had been lost, God brought out His 'remnant Israel' and began again to teach them His ways. He reminded them of His laws, the same laws kept by Abel, Noah, Abraham, Joseph, and the other patriarchs before them. God also added a health message. God desired that His people be healthy, be clean, and be in a fit state to represent Him in a world that ate anything, worshiped everything, and knew nothing of truth and morality.
• Unfortunately, Israel failed to live up to the standards God had set for them, so God did a new thing in the earth. Instaed of having His laws on stone, He wrote them in peoples' hearts. Through His Spirit operating inside of man, He recreated man in His image. By faith (like Noah, Abraham, etc) man could come to God and receive Christ's own righteousness as a gift. This gift was all encompassing. It not only 'accounted' man as righteous, it changed his entire outlook on life and changed his habits, his thoughts, his motives, his actions. Through surrendering to Christ by faith, man could become a partaker of the divine nature. Like Christ Himself man could find the strength to obey God's commandments.
• Thus the final remnant church would follow also the NT model. An obedient healthful gospel preaching endtime church.

 

[David777]

Hello again bgsda, good to recieve a reply from you.

I will answer each of your statements.

You said;

"David I see that you agree with my last reply and didn't even notice it. Rom.7: 14 For we
know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. You seemed to have missed
that, because your right we are spiritual members of the new covenant. The law is
spiritual. Not Moses Law. Rom.7:12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment
holy and just and good. Or Rom.7:22 For I delight in the law of God according to the
inward man. Remember this is the same writer. Bible cannot contradict itself or cause
confusion. thats only of the devil.

Join me and we will read Romans 7 bgsda.
Then you can point out just where our differences
arise. This is important bgsda due to the fact that
many people will read these posts, many struggle
with Law and Grace.

Line by line!

Romans 7

1 Or do you not know, brethren (for I am speaking to those who know the law)

Only one way to read this line, Paul is addressing his fellow Jews.
Gentiles did not have the Mosaic Law nor the temple bgsda.
Jews knew the law, Gentiles did not know the law.
Gentiles had civil law but not Mosaic law, Gentiles
did not meet in a synagogue. Gentiles had no temple
Gentiles did not celebrate any Jewish feasts, no sacrifices
were available for the Gentiles, etc.

Warning: Gentiles were not members of the old covenant.

You have been told bgsda, but you refuse to understand
this vital point. Since Gentiles were not included in the
old covenant then the Law of Moses is not considered
part of the Christian belief system.


2 For the married woman is bound by law to her husband while he is living; but if her

husband dies, she is released from the law concerning the husband. 3 So then, if while her

husband is living she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her

husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress though she is joined

to another man.

Subtle point Paul makes in lines 2 & 3.
A woman is subject to the law while married
but not after her husband dies. This law is not
applicable to her when she is a widow. The
law is temporary in this context, this is the point
Paul is making. Paul places the temporary aspect
of the law in the readers mind in order to introduce
Paul's main point. You missed this too i bet.

4 Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of
Christ,

There you have it bgsda, Paul is talking to the Jews here.

You were made to die to the law if you were Jewish, it was temporary!

Read it again and again bgsda, the law is temporary,
it is part of the old covenant. Paul is not talking
directly to us (Gentiles), read the first line again.

In Christ, the law which is spiritual has no jurisdiction
over a Jewish Christian. This is all Paul is saying to the
Jewish readers. It is impossible to read these lines out
of context. This is the forced interpretation and the
correct interpretation.

Only four lines into Romans 7 and we in fact already
have been told exactly what Paul has been instructed
to teach. You were made to die to the law thru
Christ. The old covenant is obsolete bgsda.
Scripture is harmonious when read in context.

5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law,
were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. 6 But now we have been
released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in
newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

Sinful passions aroused by the Law sentence us to death.
Failure to obey the law is a death penalty. One failure in
obedience is death which many Jews over the centuries
would have experienced. In the Old traditional areas of
Jerusalem even today a person will have rocks hurled
at them for breaking the Sabbath. It is a warning in the
tourist brochures.

Line 6, "released from the Law" and serving in the newness of the
Spirit. This is important bgsda "not in the oldness of the letter".
The written code applied spiritual laws to unspiritual creatures.
Death was the outcome, the good that I wish to do I do not do...

Mosaic Law is spiritual but we are not spiritual.

The law is death to us, by nature we are not able to obey the law.

In fact, by looking at the law sin will become manifest.


David you seem to be like the people that peter was talking in 2Pet.3:15 and consider that
the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation--as also our beloved brother Paul, according to
the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in
them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and
unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
See Paul wrote some hard things to understand. You just have to dig some more and come
before him with humility. See David everyone else in the Bible, including Paul, says we
ought to keep gods Commandments. i can give you like 25 verses of diff. writers in the
Bible that will tell you that its a must to keep Gods Commandments. You can only show
me paul. Something is wrong there especially with what peter wrote about pauls wisdom
that not even peter really knew. now Im not saying that you are twisting it on purpose im
just saying stop holding on to what you assume is right and come before Him as a babe.
you will find the Truth.

I have shown you from the scriptures bgsda that Paul
was addressing the Jews regarding the law. You did not
notice that the Jews were the subject of Paul's discourse
in Romans. If you had noticed this with some serious
study of the book of Romans you would not be making
the statements you are making.

In your mind bgsda you do believe that when you see the
phrase "commands of God" that this can only be referring to
the Ten Commandments. You have been conditioned by
association with the self proclaimed true church of God.
The sda have conditioned you to interpret the Bible
their way, that is why you struggle when i step logically,
line by line through passages.

It is affronting to you to read in context, it causes pain to you
if i view the Jewish law as the fabric of the Old Covenant.
You see all churches as deceived since they neglect the Sabbath.
The sabbath is the great mark of the beast, the defining point
to the book of revelations.

Any opinion or view point that contradicts the above is the
work of the devil. Unstable minds distorting the only real
truth the sacred sabbath, these minds are doomed to
destruction. Ellen G White witnessed the glowing fourth
commandment, the great prophet Ellen is the heart and
soul of sda doctrine. Hence, your preoccupation with
sabbath, it shapes your understanding of Genesis thru
Revelations.

It is the intolerance alone that I have witnessed from
other sects. The intolerance you have for anyone that
reads certain passages differently to your stance is what
I find most objectionable. Are you taught to behave this
way with people who do not agree with your erroneous
interpretation?

Do you quote heavy scriptural passages
akin to Peter 2 to anyone who disagrees with your
haphazard and faulty 18th century interpretation?

In your mind you think you belong to the remnant church.
In your mind bgsda the sda is the only organization on earth
that knows what it is talking about.

How come all sects behave exactly the same way.
Here is the formula all sects rigidly adhere to.

1) We are the only true church!
2) We are the only ones who understand the scriptures!
3) We have the only true prophet(ess)!
4) We have translated our own exclusive Bible translation!
5) We only associate with our own.

Why is the formula so defined bgsda?
A rigid script that all sects follow to the letter!

I have spoken to many members of the sda and they
all say exactly the same thing. They are taught how
to read the Bible, what passages to emphasize.
It is so uniform, the error so consistent it shocks
me. Your sabbath preoccupation is the signal,
the warning bell that something is amiss. You
separate the sabbath law as the great law.

So bgsda what does the "commandments of God" mean?

I will supply you with three quotes that normally would be
sufficient. In your case they will not be sufficient I am
convinced.

John 15:12
This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you.

John 15:14
You are My friends if you do what I command you.

John 15:17
This I command you, that you love one another.

Love is the goal of the Christian instruction, love from
a pure heart bgsda. Not the sabbath bgsda, your focus
is skewed and faulty. Instead of following Christ you
have been sidelined by the law. You dived into the old
covenant and fished out a selection of laws that suit
your purpose.

You adopted the wrong commandments and are in error.
You are legalistic and sadly mistaken.
You were not included in the old covenant which Paul
mentions when he writes to Jewish members in
Gentile churches such as Romans. This is so sad bgsda.

 

[bgsda]

David I see that we agree to disagree. David we both cannot be right which means one of us is wrong. Let me show you where you went wrong.

1. You said the Gentiles did not know the Moral law. Before this you are confused because you keep associating the Moral Law and Mosiac Law. Let me show you where in the Bible it shows you that the Gentiles know of God. Rom. 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. See David if you know about the b ook of Romans the first chpt. paul is talking about the Gentiles. Because what may be known of God is manifest in them. So that they are without excuse. Bible says they knew what sin is right? What is right and wrong. What was sin again? 1John 3:4.

2. David you have the answer in Rom.7: 6 But now we have been
released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in
newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter. Key word David LETTER or BOOK. God did not write His Commandments in a LETTER. Reread it now.

3.David if I was to you today that its ok to go and steal from your job. Or go worship Buddha God doesnt mind. Or cheat on your spouse. Or hey David lets go kill someone. David do you get the point! These are all in the Commandments. Theres more and yes Christ came to magnify the Isa.42:21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable. That is what He did when He was here. Not only was He the walking and talking Commandments but He kept it (He was without sin) and magnified it. What does a magnifying glass do? I dont think it erases anything right. The other thing is when you said the woman who is widowed is no longer under the law your wrong. If she does marry again will she be able to kill or cheat on her husband. NO

4.I see that you know about what we teach David. I also see that you "are kicking against the goads". David calling anybody sects or legalistic is a bad opinion that you have been brainwashed to believe. See I have a Pentecostal pasto friend who I worked with about for 2yrs. The first 3 months we talked about how awesome God is and His provision in our lives and so on. We would speak to everyone about Jesus and His love and saving grace. Then he asked me what denom. am I. I told him. He kinda drifted away but we were still friends. He would call me the prodical son. hahaha. But about 1 yr later after we knew each other very well and became best friends he tells me. You know at our church they have everyone watch videos on different cults and sects. And the SDA church is in one of them. I was surprised but he was more surprised because he saw for 1 yr that i was no cult or sect. He saw that I did not close myself to anyone and didn't think highly of myself. You get the point. Those are assumptions and opinions, very bad ones I believe.

5.We don't boast or think highly of ourselves the bible says not to. We , as the Jews of old, just have the truth about Gods Commandments. Many are being deceived and we have to tell all like in Rev.4And I heardanother voice from heaven, saying , Come out of her, my people, that ye benot partakers of her sins, and that ye receivenot of her plagues. Come out of what you might say. Rev.14:8And there followedanother angel, saying , Babylon is fallen , is fallen , that great city, because she madeall nations drinkof the wine of the wrath of her fornication.9And the third angel followedthem, sayingwith a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,10 The same shall drinkof the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormentedwith fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:11And the smoke of their torment ascendeth upfor ever and ever: and they haveno rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. David you know and hopefully have studied about the ecclesiastical MARK of the Roman Catholic Church is and what they claim is right. You can goolgle it and find out. Put " what does the catholics claim to be their mark" or just plain " who changed the Sabbath". Dont go with tradition David and your own wisdom. David what am I doing on TJ if I was as you say isolated or high minded. Yes we are taght the same cause its TRUTH. Gods TRUTH. It all points to Jesus. God wants our eyes on Jesus.

Finally i'll leave you with a littlke FYI. The Patriarchs new about the Commandments before Mount Sinai. Abraham Gen.26:5Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. Joseph when he did not want Gen.39:9 There is none greater in this house than I; neither hath he kept back any thing from me but thee, because thou art his wife: how then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God?. he refused to commit adultery. i could be here forever. Also did you know in Ex.16, before Mt. Sinia they were told to keep the Sabbath. Remember the Manna? Ex.16:23 And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said , To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe ; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning. you should read the whole thing but remember some disobeyed. What did the Lord say Ex16:. 27 And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather , and they found none. 28 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws? Puzzling right. Not really because it was created in the beggining Gen. 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished , and all the host of them.2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made ; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made . 3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made . see there was 2 institutions made before SIN has entered this world. MARRIAGE and SABBATH. The devil has a hold on marriages now with so many divorces and now he's been attacking the Sabbath. There are remnants though that will not be overcome by the deceiver.

Important before sin entered the world there was a Sabbath. Not only that but the Commandments were in heaven. Did not Lucifer sin? What is sin? 1 John 3:4. Commandments are the character of God. Dont forget that. Remember this is only one of many characteristics of gods end time church or people. God Bless

 

[Jaareshiah]

I have to disagree with you, Jesus never started any religion, but Jesus did come to set us free. Religion is man-made, the English word "religion" comes from the Latin word religio and it means to bind again.

The English word religion stems via 12th century Anglo-Norman religiun, from Old French religion, from the Latin stem religion - "obligation, reverence," of uncertain origin, probably formed from religare, meaning "to tie back", which is from Latin ligare meaning "to bind".(Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2005)

At James 1:27, James wrote that "the form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their tribulation, and to keep oneself without spot from the world."(New World Translation)

He used the Greek word threskeia (noun), that means "form of worship"(either true or false), and that is translated into Latin as re·li´gi·o, which became our English word “religion.” Also in verse 26, whereby he used both threskeia and threskos (as an adjective) and is rendered as "formal worshiper" or as "religious" in the King James Bible.

The apostle Paul used the Greek word threskeia at Colossians 2:18 concerning "worshipping of angels" (King James Bible) and at Acts 26:5 in speaking before king Agrippa, saying "that according to the strictest sect of our form of worship (threskeia, "our religion", King James Bible) I lived a Pharisee."(New World Translation)

The English word religion is used as meaning "beliefs and worship: people’s beliefs and opinions concerning the existence, nature, and worship of a deity or deities, and divine involvement in the universe and human life."(Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2005)

However, we are not discussing the etymology of words, but how it is used in the English language. Jesus established a "form of worship" (or religion, "beliefs and worship") that pleases Jehovah God, that is "clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father....to keep oneself without spot from the world."(James 1:27) Thus, the true worship practiced by Christians is marked by genuine concern for the poor and complete separateness from the ungodly world.

 

[bgsda]

sorry the truth we have is not only about the Ten Commandments but about the Sanctuary, state of the dead, healthy living, and so on.

 

[David777]

Hello bgsda, I require that you explain yourself.

You said that I was confused regarding moral law and Mosaic law.

"you are confused because you keep associating the Moral Law and Mosiac Law"

Now the onus is on you to explain to me what exactly is a moral
and what precisely is a moral law.

Then you must explain what you think Mosaic law means.

 

[jiggyfly]

The English word religion stems via 12th century Anglo-Norman religiun, from Old French religion, from the Latin stem religion - "obligation, reverence," of uncertain origin, probably formed from religare, meaning "to tie back", which is from Latin ligare meaning "to bind".(Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2005)

At James 1:27, James wrote that "the form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their tribulation, and to keep oneself without spot from the world."(New World Translation)

He used the Greek word threskeia (noun), that means "form of worship"(either true or false), and that is translated into Latin as re·li´gi·o, which became our English word “religion.” Also in verse 26, whereby he used both threskeia and threskos (as an adjective) and is rendered as "formal worshiper" or as "religious" in the King James Bible.

The apostle Paul used the Greek word threskeia at Colossians 2:18 concerning "worshipping of angels" (King James Bible) and at Acts 26:5 in speaking before king Agrippa, saying "that according to the strictest sect of our form of worship (threskeia, "our religion", King James Bible) I lived a Pharisee."(New World Translation)

The English word religion is used as meaning "beliefs and worship: people’s beliefs and opinions concerning the existence, nature, and worship of a deity or deities, and divine involvement in the universe and human life."(Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2005)

However, we are not discussing the etymology of words, but how it is used in the English language. Jesus established a "form of worship" (or religion, "beliefs and worship") that pleases Jehovah God, that is "clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father....to keep oneself without spot from the world."(James 1:27) Thus, the true worship practiced by Christians is marked by genuine concern for the poor and complete separateness from the ungodly world.

Like I said earlier I disagree, using the KJV as a reference especially in this case is not wise considering many of the errors within the translation.

If there is a "form of worship" evidenced within the scriptures, it is simply in spirit and in truth as Jesus said. We are to be led by HolySpirit not liturgy or tradition.

21 Dear friends, if we don’t feel guilty, we can come to God with bold confidence.22 And we will receive from him whatever we ask because we obey him and do the things that please him.
23 And this is his commandment: We must believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as he commanded us.24 Those who obey God’s commandments remain in fellowship with him, and he with them. And we know he lives in us because the Spirit he gave us lives in us.
1 John 3:21-24 (NLT)

Obviously we disagree on many things concerning the meanings and interpretation of scriptures but setting that aside, I believe what Paul said is vital to our discussion.

1 Whatever happens, my dear brothers and sisters, rejoice in the Lord. I never get tired of telling you these things, and I do it to safeguard your faith.
2 Watch out for those dogs, those people who do evil, those mutilators who say you must be circumcised to be saved.3 For we who worship by the Spirit of God are the ones who are truly circumcised. We rely on what Christ Jesus has done for us. We put no confidence in human effort,4 though I could have confidence in my own effort if anyone could. Indeed, if others have reason for confidence in their own efforts, I have even more!
5 I was circumcised when I was eight days old. I am a pure-blooded citizen of Israel and a member of the tribe of Benjamin—a real Hebrew if there ever was one! I was a member of the Pharisees, who demand the strictest obedience to the Jewish law.6 I was so zealous that I harshly persecuted the church. And as for righteousness, I obeyed the law without fault.
7 I once thought these things were valuable, but now I consider them worthless because of what Christ has done.8 Yes, everything else is worthless when compared with the infinite value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have discarded everything else, counting it all as garbage, so that I could gain Christ9 and become one with him. I no longer count on my own righteousness through obeying the law; rather, I become righteous through faith in Christ. For God’s way of making us right with himself depends on faith.10 I want to know Christ and experience the mighty power that raised him from the dead. I want to suffer with him, sharing in his death,11 so that one way or another I will experience the resurrection from the dead!
Phil 3:1-11 (NLT)

 

[bgsda]

David ok thats easy to wite down but i will tell you as it happenned to me the devil does not like anyone to know more about Jesus and will bring doubts and try to bring confusion. Please prayerfully study this its for your benefit and will bring you to a closer relatioship to Christ.. It does need explaining cause its one of the characteristics of Gods people or church nowadays.

1.Mosaic law or Moses law contained the temporary, ceremonial law of the O.T. It regulated the priesthood, sacrafices, rituals, meat and **** offerings, etc, all of which foreshadowed the cross. The law was added" till the seed should come", and that seed was Christ (Gal.3:16,19). The ritual and ceremony of Moses Law pointed forward to Christ's sacrafice. When he died, this law came to an end, but the Ten Commandments (Moral or Gods Law) " stands fast forever and ever" (psalm 111:8). That there are two laws is made crystal clear in Daniel 9:10,11.
A. called "law of Moses" (Luke2:22)
B.Called "law... contained in ordinances"(Eph.2:15)
C. Written by Moses in a book (2Chronicles 35:12)
D. Placed in the side of the ark( Deut.31:26)
E. Ended at the cross(Eph.2:16)
F. Added because of sin(Gal.3:19)
G. Contrary to us, against us (Col.2:14)
H. Judges no one(Col.2:14-16)
I. Carnal(Heb.7:16)
J. Made nothing perfect(heb.7:19)

Moral or God's Lawhas at existed as least as long as sin has existed. The Bible says,"where there is no law there is no transgression(or sin)"Rom.4:15. So God's ten Commandment law existed from the beggining. Men broke the law(sinned-1John3:4). Because of sin(or breaking God's Moral law), Moses law was given(or "added"-Gal.3:16,19) till christ should come and die. Two seperate laws are involved: God's Moral law and Moses law.
A.Called "the law of the Lord"(Isa.5:24)
B. called the "royal law" (James2:8)
C. Written by God on stone (Exo.31:18;32:16)
D. Placed inside the ark (Exo.40:20)
E.will stand forever (Luke 16:17)
F. Points out sin (Rom.7:7; 3:20)
G. Not grievous (1John 5:3)
H. Judges all people (James 2:10-12)
I. Spiritual (Rom.7:14)
J. Perfect (psalm 19:7)
The devil hates the people who uphold Gods Moral law because the law is the pattern of right living. And if you decide to follow the pattern outlined in Gods law, you will feel the devils wrath upon you at once and with all fury. it is not surprising that the devil hates and bitterly opposes all who uphold God's law. But it is shocking and astounding to hear religious leaders denying the binding claims of the Ten Commandments while at the same time upholding the traditions of men. No wonder Jesus said "Why do you also transgress the Commandments of God because of your tradition?" "And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men"(Matt.15:3,9). And david said,"It is time for You to act, O Lord, for they have regarded Your law as void"(Psalm119:126). Christians must wake up and restore God's law to its rightful, exalted position. It is folly for this undisciplined generation to presume that it can break the laws of the living God with impunity.
I hope this has answered your question and everybody else's. lets stay true to God though the heavens fall please. For more info inbox me. Remember its a requirement(God's law) for christians NOWADAYS. GOD BLESS

 

[Saving_4_Christ]

Just a question of thought,so many different religions,churches,and denominations what are your opinions on the true church
and where do you find yourself

I'm not interested in slander or disrespectful remarks remember this is a Christian forum

Jesus actually taught no religion...He said there is no religion at all...

[edit: removed links by Chad...no links allowed]

 

[Christ4Ever]

Jesus actually taught no religion...He said there is no religion at all...

If you want to know the truth...I dare you to ask me about the New book of Christ that has been out but the world threw it away...I dare you to ask me on

[edit: removed links by Chad...no links allowed]

No need to go off site S4C. Break it out here, which would provide a lot of input I'm sure.

C4E
John 8:32 [32] And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.