The Tribulation Isn’t What You Think — and Jesus Never Taught a Rapture Escape Plan

[Curtis]

HI Curtis thanks for the thoughtful reply, I do not agree, and I think it starts at the Abrahamic Covenant,

when I look at the Abrahamic Covenant,, you mention the land inheritance, I hear a lot of people say that has never been fulfilled, but scripture says it has been fulfilled to who it was promised to....

Joshua 21:43 Thus the LORD gave to Israel all the land that he swore to give to their fathers. And they took possession of it, and they settled there.
Kings 8-56
“Blessed be the LORD who has given rest to his people Israel, according to all that he promised. Not one word has failed of all his good promise, which he spoke by Moses his servant.

So why do you think it is for a ethnic Jew when Galatians spells it out so clearly.THe Bible defines for us who will inherit the promise, seems it was fulfilled in the OT and in the NT it is only those who believe in Christ.
Now we also have Paul reveling the truth about the AC
Promise to abraham see below

Galatians 3:​

26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.
27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave[g] nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

Galatians 3:​

7 Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham.

Galatians 3:​

14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles so that we might receive the promised Spirit[e] through faith.

Galatians 3​

16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ.

Abraham's descendants, the Jewish people, do possess the land of Israel, it does not encompass the entire area described as the Promised Land in the Bible.

The Promised Land's boundaries, as described in the Bible, extend beyond the current borders of Israel. They encompass areas like the West Bank, Gaza, and parts of Lebanon and Jordan.
While the state of Israel has significant control over its current territory, it does not fully control all the areas considered part of the Promised Land.

The Bible teaches that God will eventually fulfill the promise to give Israel full control over the Promised Land. Israel’s full territory will ultimately be ruled by the Messiah during the Millennium (Revelation 20:1–6). God’s promises, partly fulfilled throughout history, will have complete, literal, fulfillment prior to God’s creation of new heavens and a new earth

 

[B-A-C]

These verses describe the rapture of the church. In Jesus second coming there is no rapture only a resurrection of the dead.

... and yet, the dead go up first. Before those who are alive (the rapture).

1Thes 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
1Thes 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

 

[B-A-C]

Abraham's descendants, the Jewish people, do possess the land of Israel, it does not encompass the entire area described as the Promised Land in the Bible.

Thread 'The Promised Land'

Apr 30, 2025

Gen 12:5 Abram took Sarai his wife and Lot his nephew, and all their possessions which they had accumulated, and the persons which they had acquired in Haran, and they set out for the land of Canaan; thus they came to the land of Canaan.
Gen 12:6 Abram passed through the land as far as the site of Shechem, to the oak of Moreh. Now the Canaanite was then in the land.
Gen 12:7 The LORD appeared to Abram and said, "To your descendants I will give this land." So he built an altar there to the LORD who had appeared to him.

The land of Canaan, was what we would call...

• B-A-C
• Replies: 19
• Forum: Bible Study

Not all of the promised land was promised to the Jews. It was only promised to the descendants of Abraham.
Which would include the the Arabs and Palestinians, (the descendants of Ishmael).

Only Canaan was specifically promised to the Jews.

 

[Dave M]

Abraham's descendants, the Jewish people,

this is not what I read in the Bible

God’s promises, partly fulfilled throughout history, will have complete, literal, fulfillment prior to God’s creation of new heavens and a new earth

Hey Curtis you say partly yet the Bible says he has given Israel all that he has promised. what makes you think this promise has anything to do with NT Jew??

Joshua 21:43 Thus the LORD gave to Israel all the land that he swore to give to their fathers. And they took possession of it, and they settled there.


Kings 8-56
“Blessed be the LORD who has given rest to his people Israel, according to all that he promised. Not one word has failed of all his good promise, which he spoke by Moses his servant.

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

How the Lord deals with Israel is different from how he deals with the Church. Promises made to Israel are still going to be kept in the future. We can be sure that all God has said is true and will take place, because of His character and consistency. The Church does not replace Israel and should not expect a symbolic fulfillment of the promises of the Old Covenant. As one reads Scripture, it is necessary to keep Israel and the Church separate. In the end Israel will be saved through faith in Jesus Christ just like the body of Christ.

God made specific promises to Israel, including blessings, prosperity, and the promise of a specific land, the "Promised Land". These promises were part of the Abrahamic Covenant, which involved a land inheritance and a covenant relationship with God. While some biblical promises extend to all believers, others are specifically directed towards Israel as God's chosen people.
Isa 11:12 He will set up a banner for the nations, And will assemble the outcasts of Israel, And gather together the dispersed of Judah From the four corners of the earth.

This promise from God is NOT directed toward the Church; it is directed to Israel!

Israelites are called outcasts. The term is used several times with the word Israel. It speaks of the outcasts of Israel being gathered when God builds Jerusalem. it is predicted that the outcasts of Israel will be in Palestine and then flee from the Antichrist into Moab for protection for the last three and a half years of this age. All outcasts of Israel will be gathered one by one back to Jerusalem.

Israel, just like the church (body of Christ), is both called God's elect. In the great tribulation, God returns to his chosen people, Israel, to deal with them and to fulfil his promises he made to them.

God will gather his elect (Israel) from the four winds and four corners of the earth back to the original boundaries of Israel, in which God promised Abraham. All this happens in the great tribulation, and the Jews will make up a lot of the people who will populate the Millennial Kingdom, which happens to be in their own promised land.

.

You don't even know who, or what Israel is... Lets try to start there.. Who or what is Israel according to the Gospel? Because for the last 1,900 years, it sure as Hell wasn't some UN/Rothschild manufactured abomination in the Middle East..

 

[Curtis]

this is not what I read in the Bible


Hey Curtis you say partly yet the Bible says he has given Israel all that he has promised. what makes you think this promise has anything to do with NT Jew??

Joshua 21:43 Thus the LORD gave to Israel all the land that he swore to give to their fathers. And they took possession of it, and they settled there.


Kings 8-56
“Blessed be the LORD who has given rest to his people Israel, according to all that he promised. Not one word has failed of all his good promise, which he spoke by Moses his servant.

Do you still posses something if you lose it? Israel lost their land because of disobedience. Not until 1948 did they get a part of it back. At the end of the great tribulation they will get all the original land back.

 

[Curtis]

Thread 'The Promised Land'

Apr 30, 2025

Gen 12:5 Abram took Sarai his wife and Lot his nephew, and all their possessions which they had accumulated, and the persons which they had acquired in Haran, and they set out for the land of Canaan; thus they came to the land of Canaan.
Gen 12:6 Abram passed through the land as far as the site of Shechem, to the oak of Moreh. Now the Canaanite was then in the land.
Gen 12:7 The LORD appeared to Abram and said, "To your descendants I will give this land." So he built an altar there to the LORD who had appeared to him.

The land of Canaan, was what we would call...

• B-A-C
• Replies: 19
• Forum: Bible Study

Not all of the promised land was promised to the Jews. It was only promised to the descendants of Abraham.
Which would include the the Arabs and Palestinians, (the descendants of Ishmael).

Only Canaan was specifically promised to the Jews.

The Bible clearly states that the land of Israel is promised to the descendants of Abraham through Isaac and Jacob. Ishmael was never promised the land. Genesis 17 19-21 makes this clear:

Genesis 17 19-21 makes this clear: “And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him. And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation. But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.”

 

[Dave M]

At the end of the great tribulation they will get all the original land back.

the ethnic Jew is not who the promise goes to, it the seed of Christ the promise was made to .

Galatians 3:​

26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.
27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave[g] nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

when do we ever see Jesus treating Israel special because they are Jewish by race?? Jesus himself tells us that just because your a ethnic Jew does not make you a child of Abraham.

John 8
39 They answered him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would be doing the works Abraham did,
40 but now you seek to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. This is not what Abraham did.
41 You are doing the works your father did.” They said to him, “We were not born of sexual immorality. We have one Father—even God.”
42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I came not of my own accord, but he sent me. 43 Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word.
44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

​

So no its not the ethnic Jew that the promises are made to, just think that would mean these in John 8 would inherit the promises of abrham, does that even make any sense.

the promises are for Christ and those in Christ. according to Galatians 3. The OT promise have been fulfilled and were for that time, Christ came into the world, NOT FOR THE JEW ONLY, but for a new covenant so we could all be partakers of the eternal promise.

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

Is everyone finally starting to see just how brainwashed these Evangelical Dispensationalists are?

This is the insanity of Scofield theology:
It turns Zionist colonialism into divine fulfillment, and paints Christ-rejecting rebels as the chosen heroes of prophecy.

Think about what they’re actually saying…

God — the Creator of the entire universe — supposedly needed the British Empire, UN tanks & troops, and Rothschild money
to “give back” the land to a group of secular, Christ-denying Gentile, European converts
who spit on the cross, blaspheme His name in their synagogues,
…and openly rebel against the Son of God????

And that’s supposed to be a miracle?

God’s so-called “chosen people” need tanks, airstrikes, and UN sanctions to fulfill His plan huh?
How does that work, exactly?
Doesn’t sound like a very powerful God if He needs help from UN soldiers and Rothschild banks to accomplish His divine will.

Or maybe — just maybe; you know.. —
God didn’t sanction the UN-backed abomination in the Middle East that you blasphemously call “Israel”.

Apparently, God just stood by while 15,000 innocent Christians and Muslim settlers were slaughtered by UN troops in 1948 —
so a Christ-rejecting regime made up of European Khazar, 8th century converts could reclaim a land their ancestors never even set foot on?

A land they were never part of, never promised, and never dispossessed from —
because they weren’t the people of the Book.
They were the people of Bulan.

These identity thieves weren’t "cut off" from the land 2,000 years ago… because their ancestors were never there in the first place.

You're not dealing with displaced Israelites.
You're dealing with Khazar converts — Eastern European Gentiles whose ancestors were still worshiping pagan war gods and bloodletting to stone idols 700 years after Pentecost.

“The Kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a nation producing its fruit.”
— Matthew 21:43

That doesn’t sound like divine fulfillment at all.
That sounds like prophetic rebellion — and you Evangelicals are calling it "holy".

And somehow, the same Jerusalem that Jesus wept over,
the same temple He said would be left desolate,
is now the epicenter of God’s blessing? Wow...

How spiritually blind do you have to be?

These Khazar Jewish converts aren’t “God’s chosen people.”
They’re the largest Satanic cult on earth —
a nation built on rebellion, deception, and bloodshed.

They don’t worship the Father.
They don’t honor the Son.
They worship the Antichrist spirit —“They claim to be Jews, but are not — they are a synagogue of Satan.” — Revelation 2:9
the same spirit Jesus called “the father of lies”… the dragon. (John 8:44, Revelation 12:9)

“Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father.” — 1 John 2:23
“The whole world lies in the power of the evil one.” — 1 John 5:19
“Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist — the one who denies the Father and the Son.”
— 1 John 2:22

You’re not looking at prophecy fulfilled.
You’re looking at a beast system endangering the stability of the entire planet — and millions of Christians have been brainwashed into blessing it.
If anything, God’s wrath is already kindled —
because the name of His Son is being dragged through the mud to prop up the synagogue of Satan.

They’ve traded the Gospel of the Kingdom for a Zionist coloring book and call it eschatology.

Dispensationalists are the most gullible, spiritually sedated people on the planet —
fed a steady diet of Scofield footnotes, prophecy charts and Zionist propaganda until they can’t even recognize the Gospel anymore.

They don’t follow Jesus.
They follow a theology of rebellion — one that makes Christ’s enemies into God’s favorites, and the Cross into a speed bump on the road to Tel Aviv.

That’s right — you’ve been brainwashed into defending the wrong Israel.
“If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.” — Galatians 3:29
“They are not all Israel who are descended from Israel.” — Romans 9:6
“There is neither Jew nor Greek… for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” — Galatians 3:28
“Peace be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.” — Galatians 6:16

The Israel of God is the Body of Christ.
Not a flag. Not a nation-state. Not a rebellion.

The Body of Christ is the Israel of God.
Not a Christ-rejecting regime.
Not a Rothschild-funded war state.
Not a synagogue of Satan masquerading as prophecy.

So lurkers, get this straight…

These Scofield-brainwashed evangelicals — who claim to follow the King of the Jews —
don’t listen to Jesus, who stripped the Kingdom from unbelieving Israel and gave it to the faithful.
Don’t listen to Paul, who said not all who descend from Israel are Israel.
Don’t listen to the Church Fathers, who unanimously declared the Body of Christ as the true Israel.
But somehow they salute Rothschild Zionism, swallow Khazar propaganda, and bless a Christ-hating regime that spits on the Gospel?

They're not following the Messiah.
They're following a false Israel — and calling it holy.

If we were called “New Covenant Jews” instead of Christians — which, by the way, we are —
maybe they’d finally get it.

Maybe they’d stop worshiping the Old Covenant corpse and start preaching like Paul did.

Right now, God is calling His people out of the deception.
Out of Scofield’s spell.
Out of the synagogue of Satan.
And back to the true Israel — the Body of Christ.

If the apostles or early church fathers were in charge of the Pentagon today,
they wouldn’t be sending aid to Netanyahu —
they’d be calling him what he is: a false Jew, a blaspheming Christ-denier,
and they’d be demanding his removal from the Holy Land in the name of the risen Messiah.

They wouldn’t be sending billions in weapons to an Eastern European dragon cult —
a cult that never walked with the prophets, never stood at Sinai, and never carried the covenant.
They’d be blowing that entire system of rebellion back to hell where it came from.

These aren’t the people who crucified the prophets.
They’re the ones who came centuries later, put on the costume, rewrote the story, and declared themselves the lead role.
They hijacked the title “Jew” while rejecting the God of Abraham and the Messiah of Israel.

They didn’t inherit Moses — they replaced him with the Talmud.
They didn’t descend from Judah — they descend from Bulan.
And they didn’t crucify Christ — they built a religion that still does.

This is spiritual identity theft on a global scale.
A counterfeit priesthood.
A synagogal Beast system that hijacked the Old Covenant, rejected the New, and now demands billions in weapons while spitting on the Cross that saves.

Wake up and repent.

 

[Curtis]

the ethnic Jew is not who the promise goes to, it the seed of Christ the promise was made to .

Galatians 3:​

26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.
27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave[g] nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

when do we ever see Jesus treating Israel special because they are Jewish by race?? Jesus himself tells us that just because your a ethnic Jew does not make you a child of Abraham.

John 8
39 They answered him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would be doing the works Abraham did,
40 but now you seek to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. This is not what Abraham did.
41 You are doing the works your father did.” They said to him, “We were not born of sexual immorality. We have one Father—even God.”
42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I came not of my own accord, but he sent me. 43 Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word.
44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

​

So no its not the ethnic Jew that the promises are made to, just think that would mean these in John 8 would inherit the promises of abrham, does that even make any sense.

the promises are for Christ and those in Christ. according to Galatians 3. The OT promise have been fulfilled and were for that time, Christ came into the world, NOT FOR THE JEW ONLY, but for a new covenant so we could all be partakers of the eternal promise.

Jesus said…..

Mat 15:24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

The Church did not exist until the day pentecost.

 

[Dave M]

Jesus said…..

Mat 15:24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

yes but in context of his whole ministry, in context of the new covenant he may of been sent TO the house of Israel, but more importantly he was sent FOR the whole world.

He came FOR the lost, Gentile or Jew, he came to revel his church, is that for Jew only??

Why are you not looking at all the Bible? to see full context. If someone ask you why Jesus came, would you say for the ethnic Jew only?? scripture tells us why he came, he came for everyone

John 3:16​

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 14:6​

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

1 John 2:2​

He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

 

[Curtis]

yes but in context of his whole ministry, in context of the new covenant he may of been sent TO the house of Israel, but more importantly he was sent FOR the whole world.

He came FOR the lost, Gentile or Jew, he came to revel his church, is that for Jew only??

Why are you not looking at all the Bible? to see full context. If someone ask you why Jesus came, would you say for the ethnic Jew only?? scripture tells us why he came, he came for everyone

John 3:16​

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 14:6​

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

1 John 2:2​

He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

Did Jesus ever promise the Church a physical land? "No," To the Jews, he did.
Did Jesus ever command the Church to keep the Mosaic law? "No," To the Jews, he did.

There are things Jesus spoke to the Jews to keep and to do, and NOT the Church.

There are many things that the Jews and the Church have in common, and there are many things the Church and the Jews do not have in common.

If you do not know what these things are, then you will misunderstand what Jesus taught.

 

[Curtis]

yes but in context of his whole ministry, in context of the new covenant he may of been sent TO the house of Israel, but more importantly he was sent FOR the whole world

The Jews will eventually put their faith in Jesus as their saviour, but that only happens in the great tribulation.

The 144,000 Jews who have been anointed by God's Spirit. I am sure will have a big impact on their lives.

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

Curtis is deep in the Scofield sauce — marinated in a theology so twisted it could make Paul facepalm from the grave.

Scofield’s Schizophrenic Theology in a Nutshell:
“Jesus said different things to Jews than to the Church.”
“Jesus didn’t come for the Church, but revealed it later.”
“The Jews will eventually believe — but only after a future tribulation.”

Let’s unpack the absurdity:

1. The “Jesus had two messages” Lie
“There are things Jesus spoke to the Jews to keep and do, and NOT the Church.”

Translation: Jesus was just killing time preaching irrelevant stuff until Paul came along and gave us the “real gospel.”
This is textbook dispensational schizophrenia: slicing Jesus' ministry into compartments like He's a confused mailman delivering two different sets of instructions to two different people.

But Jesus did not preach one gospel to the Jews and another to the Church.

“I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.” — John 10:16

He didn’t say: “Two flocks. Two shepherds. One now, one later after 7 years of hellfire and Antichrist cosplaying as Hitler 2.0.”


2. The “Church Wasn’t Promised Land” Cop-Out
“Did Jesus ever promise the Church a physical land? No.”

No kidding. That’s because the land promise was never the point — the land was a shadow of the true inheritance:
“Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.” — Matthew 5:5
“Abraham… was looking forward to the city that has foundations, whose designer and builder is God.” — Hebrews 11:10

Curtis acts like God forgot His GPS settings. Abraham wasn’t promised a permanent lot in Gaza — he was promised Christ (Galatians 3:16), and all those in Christ become co-heirs.

3. “144,000 Jews in the Tribulation” Sci-Fi Fantasy

This is pure Left Behind fiction — not theology.

The 144,000 in Revelation? Symbolic of the full number of God’s people — 12 tribes x 12 apostles x 1,000 (completeness).
Just like the "two witnesses" represent the Law and the Prophets. But Scofieldites read Revelation like a Marvel movie script.

God doesn’t need to hit a prophetic “pause” and rewind back to a nationalistic Israel remix.

“There is no longer Jew or Gentile, slave or free, male or female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” — Galatians 3:28


4. The Big One: Jesus was sent to Israel — and that includes the Church

“He may have been sent TO Israel… but came FOR the world.”

Even Dave M is close but still missing the plot. Jesus came to the lost sheep of Israel (Matthew 15:24) because that’s where the Kingdom had to be offered and fulfilled — but it was never about ethnic DNA.
It was about fulfilling prophecy and birthing a spiritual Israel from the remnant who believed, and then grafting in the Gentiles through faith.

“If you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise.” — Galatians 3:29

The only distinction God makes now is in Christ or outside of Him.

There is no:
“Church age now, Jewish age later”
“Gospel for the Gentiles, Torah for the Jews”
“144,000 literal Jewish Avengers at the End Times”

There is ONE Gospel, ONE people, ONE Shepherd.

“The kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a people producing its fruits.” — Matthew 21:43
Jesus is Israel (Isaiah 49:3), and all who are in Him are the true children of God.

Curtis isn’t rightly dividing the Word — he’s butchering it with Scofield’s hacksaw.
And every time he opens his mouth, he proves Jesus was right:

“You nullify the Word of God for the sake of your tradition.” — Mark 7:13

 

[Jesua888]

Why are you watching videos and listening to sermons and quotes, when you can just take the Bible yourself and read it yourself. That don't make any sense that you're seeking the truth from some other source other than the Bible and then using the Bible as your foundation source of Truth to validate anything else, when you have the Bible as your foundation source of Truth.

I'll tell you why ... I am new to bible study, and have been "self-taught" on my journey to finding the Truth ... we all learn from different sources, at different paces, so to question "why" this or that, is rather indimidating to say the least, don't you think? God/Holy Spirit speaks through more than just the bible ...

 

[Leumas]

I'll tell you why ... I am new to bible study, and have been "self-taught" on my journey to finding the Truth ... we all learn from different sources, at different paces, so to question "why" this or that, is rather indimidating to say the least, don't you think? God/Holy Spirit speaks through more than just the bible ...

In your case Linda,
it doesn't matter what I think.
Your destiny's already determined.
and I am not in any of it

 

[Garee]

I'll tell you why ... I am new to bible study, and have been "self-taught" on my journey to finding the Truth ... we all learn from different sources, at different paces, so to question "why" this or that, is rather indimidating to say the least, don't you think? God/Holy Spirit speaks through more than just the bible ...

The invisible Holy Spirit as God or the invisible god of this world Satan . two choices .

Two sides to a coin. Cesar seen the god of this word or our Holy Father not seen the right side up flip .

The Holy Spirit does the all the teaching, guiding comforting and not last but foremost he brings to our memory the previous things he has taught those yoked with his love.

John 14:26; But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you

You say you are new to a bible study then say the bible (sola scriptura) is not what we are to study to show one approved by God by rightly dividing it .

Does the loving law below apply to yourself? Does sola scriptura shun profane and vain babbling?

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

 

[Deep Seeker]

The Tribulation Isn’t What You Think — and Jesus Never Taught a Rapture Escape Plan

Scripture mostly talks about “tribulation” (thlipsis) as something believers experience. But Jesus does describe a final period of unparalleled distress — and He tells us exactly how it ends.

The problem? Modern churches have been fed Scofield’s fan fiction, not Christ’s words.

So let’s walk through what the Bible actually says.

1. Tribulation is for believers — not just “the left behind.”

“In the world you will have tribulation (θλῖψιν) — but take heart, I have overcome the world.”
— John 16:33

“We must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.”
— Acts 14:22

Tribulation isn't some Jewish horror flick after the Church "vanishes" — it's the furnace believers have always gone through. It’s been happening since Acts — and it will culminate right before Christ returns.

2. Jesus does mention a great tribulation — but the righteous are still there.

“Then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world... and except those days be shortened, no flesh would be saved.” — Matthew 24:21–22

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days… He shall send His angels… and gather His elect.” — Matthew 24:29–31

So when does Jesus gather His people? AFTER the tribulation — not before.
No secret escape. No early flight. No Kirk Cameron 'Left Behind' Hollywood nonsense.
Left behind” isn’t a threat — it’s a promise. Just ask Noah.

3. “But what about being taken like in Noah’s day?”

People say this like it’s the reward — but Jesus says it’s the judgment.

“As it was in the days of Noah… they were eating and drinking… until the flood came and took them all away.
So shall it be when the Son of Man returns.” — Matthew 24:37–39
(Also Luke 17:26–30)

Look again — who gets taken in Noah’s day?
Not Noah. Not the righteous.
It’s the wicked who are swept away in judgment.

And Jesus says it’ll be just like that again.

The ones “taken” are the ones judged.
The ones “left” are the ones preserved.
Left behind? That’s the blessing. Just like Noah, just like Lot.

That means modern Rapture theology has Christians begging to be swept away in judgment — while calling it their “blessed hope.” That’s not faith. That’s deception — straight from the Pit. They’re under a veil… and cheering for their own destruction as the architects of this deception laugh from the shadows of Hell — watching the Church pray for its own judgment, and call it salvation.

4. Revelation confirms: the saints go through it.

“I saw the souls of those who were beheaded for their witness to Jesus… and they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.” — Revelation 20:4

Who are these saints?
Not “tribulation extras.”
They’re the faithful Church — those who endure.
There is ONE resurrection. (John 5:28–29, Daniel 12:2)

5. Daniel backs it up:

“There shall be a time of trouble such as never was… but at that time your people shall be delivered — everyone written in the Book.”
— Daniel 12:1–2

“Many shall be purified and made white and tried.”
— Daniel 12:10

Not beamed up — purified, tried, delivered.
Through fire, not around it.

6. There’s no escape hatch. But there is endurance — and glory.

“Here is the endurance of the saints… those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.”
— Revelation 14:12

“But he who endures to the end will be saved.” — Matthew 24:13

The Satanic Lie: “The Tribulation” is a Jewish-only horror story.
This was invented by John Nelson Darby in the 1800s and stapled into your Bible by Scofield.
They taught the Church is removed before things get rough, and the Jews get one more shot during a special 7-year tribulation.

There’s only one problem:
That’s not what Jesus taught.

Final Truth:
There is a final period of tribulation — a real, global time of distress before Christ returns. But Jesus was clear:

The righteous aren’t removed beforehand — they’re refined.

The wicked are “taken,” not the saints.

The elect are gathered after the tribulation.

There is one resurrection — at Christ’s visible return.

And every believer who endures will shine like the sun in the Kingdom of their Father (Matthew 13:43).

Summary:

"The tribulation" is real — not just future, but already unfolding. It intensifies before Christ returns. But believers go through it — not around it.

The “rapture” happens after the tribulation (Matt 24:29–31).

The ones “taken” in Noah’s day were the wicked — not the saved.
Jesus says it will be the same way again when He returns.

The ones ‘taken’ are the damned. The Rapture, as the misled modern churches teach it, is actually a death sentence disguised as deliverance.

The righteous are left — sealed, rescued, preserved, just like Noah.

So when modern Christians start begging to be “taken”…
they’re literally praying to be swept away in judgment.
That’s not the blessed hope.
That’s spiritual suicide — with Scofield footnotes.

Scofield’s fantasy isn’t in the Bible.

Endure like Noah. Obey like Lot. Shine like the saints.

No one is raptured before it. The righteous are gathered after (Matt 24:29–31).

Saints will suffer, resist the Beast, and be resurrected to reign with Christ. (Rev 20:4)

The whole “pre-trib rapture” thing? Invented in the 1800s. Not Bible. Not Jesus. Not apostolic.

If anyone tells you we’ll be “raptured out” before things get hard, just ask:
“Where’s the verse that says that?”
(Spoiler: there isn’t one.)

The Cross wasn’t an escape plan — it was a war path.
Jesus doesn’t rapture cowards.
He refines warriors.

Not one apostle taught a pre-tribulation rapture.
Not one early Church father believed Christians would disappear before the time of trial.
There is zero historical record of any secret escape doctrine in the first 1800 years of Christianity.

Paul didn’t teach it.
Peter didn’t teach it.
John — the one who saw Revelation — didn’t teach it.

Irenaeus didn’t preach it.
Polycarp didn’t preach it.
Ignatius didn’t preach it.

Jesus didn’t teach it.

So where did it come from?

John Nelson Darby, 1830s.
Scofield Bible, 1909.
Then Hollywood — and Satan’s global elite minions — ran with it.
They sold Christians a false escape hatch — and called it “the Blessed Hope.”

The real Church never believed in a “left behind” evacuation plan.
That idea didn’t come from the Bible.

So ask yourself:
If the apostles didn’t preach it…
If the early Church never taught it…
If Jesus never mentioned it…

Then who did?

Because deception this deep doesn’t come from ignorance — it comes from below.

It’s so twisted, so dark, so psychotic,
it could only come from the pit itself.

Like an evil man sweetly coaxing a group of children
to dance into a barn full of starving lions —
and calling it “blessed hope".

What they’ve done to the Church since 1909 is so twisted,
so diabolical,
it couldn’t have come from man.

This deception bears the fingerprints of the Dragon himself.
Only the enemy of Christ could orchestrate something so brilliant,
so blasphemous —
and sell it as hope.

I ask This. Who was The Tribulation to be for? When was It to occur? Who was the Book Of Revelation addressed to?
Rev. 1:1 states: "The revelation of Jesus Christ. Which God gave to Him!
What for?
To show -- To HIS SERVANTS -- Things which must SHORTLY COME TO PASS.?
How long has it been since That Book was written? Is from That Time to now, a short time? Are We His servants? Are We One of The Seven churches?
Then It does not fit for THIS AGE; DOES IT?

Yet Today's churches keep trying to force It into This Age!

No more need to be said about this!
DeepSeeker

---

 

[Dave M]

I ask This. Who was The Tribulation to be for? When was It to occur? Who was the Book Of Revelation addressed to?
Rev. 1:1 states: "The revelation of Jesus Christ. Which God gave to Him!
What for?
To show -- To HIS SERVANTS -- Things which must SHORTLY COME TO PASS.?
How long has it been since That Book was written? Is from That Time to now, a short time? Are We His servants? Are We One of The Seven churches?
Then It does not fit for THIS AGE; DOES IT?

Yet Today's churches keep trying to force It into This Age!

No more need to be said about this!
DeepSeeker

---

I respect this view point, I do see the seven churches as being the people who make up the churches, we should all identify with one of the 7 churches IMO just a personal conviction. I can see the mainstream church in america a exact replica of the Laodicean Church
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laodicean_Church
I think we are all going to eat humble pie and wedding feast !!

 

[Jesua888]

this

The invisible Holy Spirit as God or the invisible god of this world Satan . two choices .

Two sides to a coin. Cesar seen the god of this word or our Holy Father not seen the right side up flip .

The Holy Spirit does the all the teaching, guiding comforting and not last but foremost he brings to our memory the previous things he has taught those yoked with his love.

John 14:26; But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you

You say you are new to a bible study then say the bible (sola scriptura) is not what we are to study to show one approved by God by rightly dividing it .

Does the loving law below apply to yourself? Does sola scriptura shun profane and vain babbling?

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

this above is a lot of "vain babblings" and assumptions, therefore a projection which I will NOT buy into!