amadeus2
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- Joined
- Dec 20, 2008
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"Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will," Eph 1:5
It was predestined there would be adoption by Jesus, but the antecedent for the pronoun, "us", was not predetermined. The apostle spoke of a group in which he included himself for his faith was unwavering. He wanted those who read his words to similarly have such an unwavering faith.
Our faith may be unwavering when we say that we are "saved", but we are, I believe, still a work in progress until God advises each of us otherwise. God has not removed from any of us our freedom to choose Him or to reject Him at any time. Paul was saying that he would never reject God. At that moment he perhaps did not really know that, but when he wrote the following words, he probably did:
"For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:" II Tim 4:6-7
Who among us is prepared to repeat Paul's words of II Tim 4:6-7 right now with regard to himself? Perhaps some could but to say such a thing without being provoked to do so by God would likely cause the speaker to be guilty of pride, possibly the most difficult obstacle for a believer to overcome.
I am not Calvinist, but I do definitely see merit to our brother @Chopper in the three positions of saved people he identified: the Bride, the Serious and the Not so Serious.
My difference from Chopper would be that our final position among the three and even our final salvation is not final until we have gone through the last test that God has for us. The testing period continues while we continue to be tempted. Jesus overcame his last temptation, I believe, in Gethsemene (Matt 26:39-44). My temptations presently do continue. I cannot speak for anyone else.
It was predestined there would be adoption by Jesus, but the antecedent for the pronoun, "us", was not predetermined. The apostle spoke of a group in which he included himself for his faith was unwavering. He wanted those who read his words to similarly have such an unwavering faith.
Our faith may be unwavering when we say that we are "saved", but we are, I believe, still a work in progress until God advises each of us otherwise. God has not removed from any of us our freedom to choose Him or to reject Him at any time. Paul was saying that he would never reject God. At that moment he perhaps did not really know that, but when he wrote the following words, he probably did:
"For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:" II Tim 4:6-7
Who among us is prepared to repeat Paul's words of II Tim 4:6-7 right now with regard to himself? Perhaps some could but to say such a thing without being provoked to do so by God would likely cause the speaker to be guilty of pride, possibly the most difficult obstacle for a believer to overcome.
I am not Calvinist, but I do definitely see merit to our brother @Chopper in the three positions of saved people he identified: the Bride, the Serious and the Not so Serious.
My difference from Chopper would be that our final position among the three and even our final salvation is not final until we have gone through the last test that God has for us. The testing period continues while we continue to be tempted. Jesus overcame his last temptation, I believe, in Gethsemene (Matt 26:39-44). My temptations presently do continue. I cannot speak for anyone else.