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The Three Stage Positions Of Every Believer.

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It is my purpose in this thread to post an answer that has caused so many different ideas of OSAS, and the loss of Salvation by posting Scripture that supports IMO three stages or positions of Believers who cannot loose their Salvation and those who can. Having said this, my teaching will follow.
 
Active
First, I will build a case for those believers who cannot loose their Salvation. I have been a student of the writings of John Calvin for years now and I agree with most of his theology on Salvation. There is an area that he did not cover which has brought on him a lot of justified criticism.

While studying and disagreeing with his theology, that only those who God has chosen before the foundations of the world will be saved, and those not chosen will die in their sins is totally not scriptural. In seeking the help of the Holy Spirit about this error of Calvin, I asked for the Truth. I believe that thru the process of revelation, I was given the following knowledge and wisdom from God Himself.

THE CHOSEN ONES: Ephesians 1:3 "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will."


These, according to my understanding of Scripture are those of Whom God has chosen Himself to represent Him in all generations. They are His Remnant. They will be born of the flesh, and at some point in their lives, the Holy Spirit will put out a Salvation call that they won't refuse. They will be born in a time frame, geographical location, and the family that they would grow up in according to God's own purpose and will for each chosen person.

This next portion of Scripture is where Calvin went wrong....
Romans 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
9:12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.


Calvin stopped right here and included all those who were not the chosen ones to be like Pharaoh in which God hardens all their hearts. Calvin only wanted the chosen ones to inherit Salvation, no one else. That is where the Holy Spirit posed a question to my heart. "What about that God is not willing that any perish." That hit me hard!! That meant that I had to seek the Lord and come up with the Truth and not Calvin's error.

I'll stop right here for now. I have things to do and I also want those of you who are interested in this subject to study for yourselves what I've written. If I'm in violation of a rule of the Forum, I'll stop. Otherwise I'll continue.
 
Active
We have established who cannot refuse Salvation, they are the Elect or Chosen of God before the foundations of the world. Because these Chosen ones were presented to Jesus from His Father....John 17:6 "I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word." He will treasure and protect them.

Not only could these men not refuse Salvation, they cannot loose what God Himself gave them....John 17:12 "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled."

NOW, we will leave the ones who will never loose their Salvation, to those who can loose Salvation, and then to those who WILL loose Salvation.

At this point, my focus will be on the Church of Jesus the Son of God. For a peek into every Church in all ages since Pentecost, look in the Book of Revelation, Chapters 2 & 3.

The "General Call of the Gospel" (just like TULIP is ascribed to Calvin, the "General Call Of The Gospel" is my invention) goes out all over the world by Missionaries, Evangelists, and Pastors who are called to plant Churches, all in the Name of Jesus the Son of God.

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."


Notice first of all that God, contrary to what Calvin taught, No one is condemned!! At this point, the Church of Christ Jesus has been established. In every Church we have Christians, people who have made a profession of Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. In those Churches we have three classes of Believers. The Chosen Ones (Elect) who are the Bride of Christ, some very serious Believers and not so serious Believers.

THE BRIDE: These are the ones listed in....
Ephesians 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will." As noted above they will never loose or fall away from their Salvation.

THE SERIOUS: These are the ones who have answered the "General Call" and are very serous about their relationship with their Savior. As a result, the have wonderful works that prove their devotion to Jesus. These too, most likely have been Baptized in the Holy Spirit and allow Him to operate thru them. they are an example to all the Believers in the local Church of how to be "sold out" to the cause of Christ Jesus to, as it says in Matthew 10:38, take up their Cross. Some of them become Pastor's, Evangelists, Missionaries, and other leadership positions in their local Church. Some become Elders and Deacons. They are an example of this Scripture....

Philippians 2:1 "If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,
2:2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.
2:3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
2:4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.
2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:"


THE NOT SO SERIOUS: These are what we sometimes refer to as "pew warmers". They have answered the "General Call" but are generally lethargic when it comes to personal Bible study. Church services other than Sunday morning. Taking the headship in their homes. They feel that they have been saved and that's good enough. They might be the ones that the Apostle Paul speaks about in....

1Corinthians 3:15 "If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

HOW DOES A BELIEVER LOOSE THEIR SALVATION: Some were not biblically saved to begin with. Two examples....

John 2:23 "Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did.
2:24 But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men,"

Matthew 7:22 "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."


Others who can loose their Salvation are these listed in....
Matthew 13:3 "And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;
13:4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:
13:5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
13:6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
13:7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:
13:8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold."

Only one out of the four are biblically saved.

I believe in a pre-trib gathering (rapture) of the Bride of Jesus Christ. These are the ones, according to Ephesians 1:4 & 5 who were predetermined by Almighty God to represent Him before the world in different ages, locations of the world and sphere of witness. They are gathered first according to....Revelation 3:10 "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

Still others loose when the seven year Tribulation starts....
2Thessalonians 2:1 "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"


The "falling away" is an apostasy, or religious rebellion. Remember, in order to have "fallen away" they would have had to fall away from something and that something was Salvation. Whatever the tribulation is during the first half of the Tribulation period is not exactly known, but it was strong enough to cause these so-called believers to abandon their profession of Christ Jesus.

Well my friends. That's what I see as my OP, The Three Stage Positions Of Every Believer. I hope this helps to answer some questions on this whole business of Calvinism, OSAS, and the loss of one's Salvation.

May God bless you all with His Grace, Peace and Joy of the Holy Spirit in His fullness.
 
Loyal
I was just going to add a link for this thread to OSAS thread but as I opened it to do so, I see you have done it. :thumbsup:

Bless you my friend
 
Active
I was just going to add a link for this thread to OSAS thread but as I opened it to do so, I see you have done it. :thumbsup:

Bless you my friend
Thank you my wonderful Brother and friend. I hope that you can add some information that I might have missed. I highly respect your theology and honor you as a friend in the Holy Word of God.
 
Active

RJ

While studying and disagreeing with his theology, that only those who God has chosen before the foundations of the world will be saved, and those not chosen will die in their sins is totally not scriptural.
I'll stop right here for now. I have things to do and I also want those of you who are interested in this subject to study for yourselves what I've written.
A very good talk. I think, for all of us, truth is just another gift of God but, ultimately none of us will be perfect in our knowledge, until we are "face to face" with the Master and will know as well as he knows!
Saying that, I must admit I never really studied Calvin in earnest. I have , for as long as I have been at TJ, (in a critical fashion) been called by others as a Calvinist. With "some"eventual study, I must say he and I agree on many things (not all) but, I am not a follower and he hasn't formed by thoughts but only from scripture and the Holy Spirit.
I know, in my heart and, because scripture mentions it, there is something very important about election and predestination and we need to come to grips with it.Knowing that, I still have something stuck in my craw and that is free will choice! How do they all come together? For sure, when I get to see the Master, he will make it understood. In the meantime, here is a verse I would like to had to your discussion
Romans 8:29 "For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters."
God is omnipresent, he is the Alpha and the Omega...I believe that means he is the beginning and the end at the same time. Who of us knows exactly how God works but, I think it is plausible that he sees into the future and predestines those who have come to him by faith!
 
Active
I liked what you wrote RJ. I do have a different opinion on what you said...."I think it is plausible that he sees into the future and predestines those who have come to him by faith!".... If that happened, it would erase the fact that when God chooses before the foundation of the world, He does so by His choice on what He wants to do with that person, not on the future.

I was recently asked, by a Brother who did not know much about Calvin and TULIP. He asked me to post what TULIP stood for. That was in another Forum, not this one. Here it is if your interested.

T - Total depravity (No one is capable of saving oneself)
U - Unconditional election (God's choosing of the saved isn't conditioned by anything in them)
L - Limited atonement (Christ's atonement is adaquate to save all people but it is efficient for God's elect only)
I - Irrestible grace (the sovereignly given gift of faith cannot be rejected by the elect)
P - Perseverance of the saints (those who are regenerated and justified will persever in the faith)

See the U ? That means that God didn't look into the future and chose Peter, because he got saved, and Jesus chose him to be a Disciple. No, Just like Jeremiah....

Jeremiah 1:4 "Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations"

God chose Jeremiah and Peter and others based solely on His choice and service to Himself.

I hope this helps a little.
 
Active

RJ

I liked what you wrote RJ. I do have a different opinion on what you said...."I think it is plausible that he sees into the future and predestines those who have come to him by faith!".... If that happened, it would erase the fact that when God chooses before the foundation of the world, He does so by His choice on what He wants to do with that person, not on the future.
I am not convinced that we disagree.
Yes, with his power, he sees into the entire future. In his realm, everything physically here is already complete....the devil is defeated and Christ has already come back, he is the Omega! At the foundation he " foreknew and predestine" everything and based on this, our names were written into the Lamb's Book of Life...before the foundation! I can't explain it all and he definitely in some spiritual way, chooses and this is somehow tied into foreknowing who received faith and who didn't, who he predestine and who he didn't . Again, I don't know but, I do know this,somehow it is ALL spiritual, from his realm and we just can't fully explain it.
How do you explain " Those he foreknew, he also predestined? I think it is important to also keep in mind his follow-up scripture: 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.......all based on who he foreknew!?
 
Active
I am not convinced that we disagree.
Yes, with his power, he sees into the entire future. In his realm, everything physically here is already complete....the devil is defeated and Christ has already come back, he is the Omega! At the foundation he " foreknew and predestine" everything and based on this, our names were written into the Lamb's Book of Life...before the foundation! I can't explain it all and he definitely in some spiritual way, chooses and this is somehow tied into foreknowing who received faith and who didn't, who he predestine and who he didn't . Again, I don't know but, I do know this,somehow it is ALL spiritual, from his realm and we just can't fully explain it.
How do you explain " Those he foreknew, he also predestined? I think it is important to also keep in mind his follow-up scripture: 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.......all based on who he foreknew!?
Hey, I'm Ok with what you believe. It's not what I see but Brothers can have different viewpoints that don't separate us. Way too much love for each other for that to happen....Love You!!
 
Active

RJ

Hey, I'm Ok with what you believe. It's not what I see but Brothers can have different viewpoints that don't separate us. Way too much love for each other for that to happen....Love You!!
Makes for a good conversation though and, it isn't about who is right or not on some sticky issues but I do think that we are both glorified and that is important! Love you too!
 
Active
Makes for a good conversation though and, it isn't about who is right or not on some sticky issues but I do think that we are both glorified and that is important! Love you too!
Well, here's the thing. when I read this verse that you sited at the end of your post...."30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.......all based on who he foreknew!?" ....it all points backward instead of forward as you suppose by saying "all based on who he foreknew."

Your statement can't be supported with Scripture IMO. The key word here is "predestined" that implies in my mind, God did this before the foundations of the earth was laid by Him.
 
Active

RJ

In the spirit of a good conversation on, possibly, a fundamental on who God is, not what/how he has done something because, we are truly brothers and, somehow we will have a good laugh in the "Happy Hunting Ground"!
it all points backward instead of forward as you suppose by saying "all based on who he foreknew."
:) Well, he is the Alpha and the Omega and because of this, I like to think that he has always been, nothing that existed has existed before him and, for sure, he knew and planned everything out before creation according to his will! With us, we could say that something points backward...with him. it is all the same.
Your statement can't be supported with Scripture IMO.
I don't think that scripture quotes describes absolutely everything that is, there is not a Bible big enough to hold it all! Many "Theologians", much more learned than me, would classify me on this subject as either Armenian or Calvinist. I say, I am neither. I was neither before grace and all I know thus far is from my own study of the Bible. I have neither, in sincerity, studied either of those Theologies. If I could say, I am a mixture of both, part of both but, not a 100% of either. I am very happy in that skin and, primarily, because I have had no training from another man and I see no mention of either classification in scripture.
The key word here is "predestined" that implies in my mind, God did this before the foundations of the earth was laid by Him.
Yes he did. Predestined is "his" word to us, not the other way around and I think your implication is exactly correct, who am I to say he is not capable of devising a "perfect" plan before time itself!

I am enjoying this. The only way it would be better, would be face to face over a cup Community brand / Chicory coffee. There is so much lost in translation here at T.J......God's blessings and Love
 
Active
I am not convinced that we disagree.
I can see the issue from both sides so I'm not sure there is a real disagreement either.
One view is from time outward and the other view is from spirit into time and space.

Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
I feel that this verse is speaking from God's point of view.

Seeing things from that view helps make sense out of other hard to understand verses.
Example:
John 5:25 Timeless truth I speak to you: The hour is coming, it is even now, when the dead shall hear the voice of The Son of God, and they who hear shall live.
It seems to me this verse shows both the view from heaven and the view from earth.
God is whole,complete and lacking nothing now and I doubt he is waiting to enjoy his children.
 
Active

RJ

John 5:25 Timeless truth I speak to you: The hour is coming, it is even now, when the dead shall hear the voice of The Son of God, and they who hear shall live.
It seems to me this verse shows both the view from heaven and the view from earth.
God is whole,complete and lacking nothing now and I doubt he is waiting to enjoy his children.
I see the same thing here. The way I explain it to myself is that, as always, two things are in play at the present, both the physical and spiritual. Physically, there are the dead Saints before us and they will be raised first as scripture says but, Spiritually all of this has already happened!
Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father....he is in us and we are in him and spiritually already seated with him in the heaven. Another of many verse that instills a since of "blessed assurance" in me but, that is for another ongoing debate!
 
Active
In the spirit of a good conversation on, possibly, a fundamental on who God is, not what/how he has done something because, we are truly brothers and, somehow we will have a good laugh in the "Happy Hunting Ground"!

:) Well, he is the Alpha and the Omega and because of this, I like to think that he has always been, nothing that existed has existed before him and, for sure, he knew and planned everything out before creation according to his will! With us, we could say that something points backward...with him. it is all the same.

I don't think that scripture quotes describes absolutely everything that is, there is not a Bible big enough to hold it all! Many "Theologians", much more learned than me, would classify me on this subject as either Armenian or Calvinist. I say, I am neither. I was neither before grace and all I know thus far is from my own study of the Bible. I have neither, in sincerity, studied either of those Theologies. If I could say, I am a mixture of both, part of both but, not a 100% of either. I am very happy in that skin and, primarily, because I have had no training from another man and I see no mention of either classification in scripture.

Yes he did. Predestined is "his" word to us, not the other way around and I think your implication is exactly correct, who am I to say he is not capable of devising a "perfect" plan before time itself!

I am enjoying this. The only way it would be better, would be face to face over a cup Community brand / Chicory coffee. There is so much lost in translation here at T.J......God's blessings and Love
Thank you friend. I'm in agreement with what you wrote. There is so much joy when two Brothers agree.
 
Active
Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father....he is in us and we are in him and spiritually already seated with him in the heaven. Another of many verse that instills a since of "blessed assurance" in me but, that is for another ongoing debate!
I would not want to debate you on that because I see no error.
I do also understand why others see differently so I can't altogether call them wrong because things look different from different viewpoints.
 
Moderator
Staff Member
Dear brothers on this thread

This thread is very interesting but:

Please be aware that Calvinism is heretic teaching that is not in line with the scriptures.
Therefore any promotion of Calvinism will not be tolerated on Talk Jesus.

There is not one place in scripture that tells us that our salvation is predestined, but rather we are predestined to be conformed the image of His Son.

Every point of the TULIP is flawed and bends scripture.

@Br. Bear @Chad it would probably be more appropriate and scriptural for a brother to be involved here. Thank you .
 
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Loyal
I've wondered how verses like ...

2 Pet 3:9; The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

1 Tim 2:3; This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1 Tim 2:4; who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Fit into TULIP?

Also verses like

Matt 7:7; “Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
Matt 7:8; For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.
(Also Luke 11:10; )

Heb 11:6; And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.

Also.... is salvation is predestined... why evangelize? Why even post message on TalkJesus?
Why even have church? Why would Jesus give us the great commission? (Mark 16:15-18; )

There is a lot more... I don't know all of the tenants of predestination nearly as well as I do the OSAS
points.
 
Loyal
It seems this ultimately goes back to free-will.

I would ask if man has no free-will... then why do we sin? Does God cause us to sin?

I agree with @Fragrant Grace about Rom 8:29-30;

I don't have a problem with God foreknowing the future... I believe He does.
But this passage is usually taken by non-Calvinists as...
I knew you were going to join the army. (I didn't make the choice for you, but I knew you were going to)
But since you decided to join the army, it's predestined you will get a crew-cut and wear a camouflage
uniform.

Rom 8:29; For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
Rom 8:30; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

The non-Calvinist simply believes we are all called. We are all chosen. God doesn't reject anyone
who seeks after Him. (Heb 11:6; )

Also the word "elect" simply means - chosen to be "at some point in the future".
For example we will elect a new president here in the US this year. He will be an "elect"
from November until February". But he won't actually be president until February.
 
Moderator
Staff Member
Greetings,


Your statement can't be supported with Scripture IMO. The key word here is "predestined" that implies in my mind, God did this before the foundations of the earth was laid by Him.

I think you will find that the LORD only ever had good plans for man. Surely His intent from the beginning was only good?
Why do we need to fabricate ideas around this simple fact?
Has He changed? No.

We can make too much out of something He gives us and thereby enter error and judgment is perverted.

OR, we can accept Him and trust in Him, and enter into His Love wherewith He loved us and sent His Son for us.

Restoration, Redemption, Salvation, Comfort, Hope, Faith and love. In the flesh...

Who is like unto Thee, O LORD, among the gods? who is like Thee, glorious in holiness, fearful in praises, doing wonders?

Exodus 15:11

Among the gods there is none like unto Thee, O Lord; neither are there any works like unto Thy works.

Psalm 86:8

Why would the LORD bother?

For great is Thy mercy toward me: and Thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest hell.

Exodus 86:13

because He was having a good day? Because He felt like it? Because He was after our vote???!!! Because He never changes and His predestination for man was and is and always will be good.
And to be conformed to the image of His Son, yes, which is good to the best degree, for there is none better than such an image to be conformed to, His highest and only ever His best love.

Why do we people get it so wrong all the time? Why can we not take Him at His Word. Rather than pick morsels of His word like dogs and deny Him Who is One, not many and not variable like we have become?

Beware of pride and arrogance, beware that we do not get egotistical in presenting lies in order to appear clever.
The LORD is true, indeed , Truth. We all men, as liars, deceitful hearts and proud looks... and yet, in His great love He delivered us, and forgave us and keeps us, always dear to Him as He has always desired us to be.

Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
Ezekiel 33:11


1Timothy 2:4
New International Version
Who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

New Living Translation
Who wants everyone to be saved and to understand the truth.


English Standard Version
Who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth
.

Berean Study Bible
Who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.


Berean Literal Bible
Who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.


New American Standard Bible
Who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth
.

King James Bible
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.


Holman Christian Standard Bible
Who wants everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.


International Standard Version
Who wants all people to be saved and to come to know the truth fully.


NET Bible
since He wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.


Aramaic Bible in Plain English
He who wills that all people shall have Life, and shall be converted to the knowledge of the truth.


GOD'S WORD® Translation
He wants all people to be saved and to learn the truth.


New American Standard 1977
Who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Jubilee Bible 2000
Who desires that all men be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth.


King James 2000 Bible
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.


American King James Version
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth.


American Standard Version
Who would have all men to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth.


Douay-Rheims Bible
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth.


Darby Bible Translation
Who desires that all men should be saved and come to [the] knowledge of [the] truth.

English Revised Version
Who willeth that all men should be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth.

Webster's Bible Translation
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Weymouth New Testament
Who is willing for all mankind to be saved and come to a full knowledge of the truth.

World English Bible
Who desires all people to be saved and come to full knowledge of the truth.


Young's Literal Translation
Who doth will all men to be saved, and to come to the full knowledge of the truth;


O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Matthew 23:37

The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2Peter 3:9


Bless you ....><>
 
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