The Spirit within you.

[B-A-C]

Matt 3:11; “As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
Matt 3:12; His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

Mark 1:7; And he was preaching, and saying, “After me One is coming who is mightier than I, and I am not fit to stoop down and untie the thong of His sandals.
Mark 1:8; I baptized you with water; but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”

Luke 3:16; John answered and said to them all, “As for me, I baptize you with water; but One is coming who is mightier than I, and I am not fit to untie the thong of His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

John the Baptists baptized in water "for repentance" ... but the one who is coming after
him (Jesus) will baptize you with the Holy Spirit. Has Jesus baptized you with the
Holy Spirit? How do you know? More about that shortly. It's also good to note here,
it is Jesus that baptizes you in the Holy Spirit. No Jesus... no Holy Spirit. Also good to note here, the Holy Spirit comes.. "after" repentance. Not before.

The next verse says He will gather up the wheat, but burn up the chaff. This can be
taken two ways... of course in the parable of the wheat and the tares, these are two
kinds of people in the kingdom of God. Those who are saved, and those who "think" they
are saved. The second way is... God will get rid of the "junk" (sinful ways) in your life.

How does an unclean spirit go out of you? Well, you yourself don't have the power
to control any demons. Only God/Jesus/Holy Spirit has this power. But even if an
unclean spirit leaves you, he can come back.

Matt 12:43; “Now when the unclean spirit goes out of a man, it passes through waterless places seeking rest, and does not find it.
Matt 12:44; Then it says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came’; and when it comes, it finds it unoccupied, swept, and put in order.
Matt 12:45; Then it goes and takes along with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there; and the last state of that man becomes worse than the first. That is the way it will also be with this evil generation.”

It's good to note here, the place is "unoccupied". No one lives there. There is no
Holy Spirit living here. If the Holy Spirit was there, it would be "occupied"...
no vacancy. The unclean spirit would not be able to take up residency here.

Jesus gave the disciples power over unclean spirits ( Mark 6:7; )
Before Jesus ascended to heaven, certain people (very few) had the Holy Spirit "upon" them
Simeon in Luke 2:25; is an example. The Holy Spirit did not dwell within people yet.
There was one exception. John the Baptist ( Luke 1:15; )

Shortly after Jesus meets with Moses and Elijah on the mount of transfiguration,
Jesus and the disciples are going to pass through Samaria, but the Samaritans did
not receive Him "because he was going to Jerusalem". So the disciples ask Jesus...

Luke 9:54; When His disciples James and John saw this, they said, “Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them?”
Luke 9:55; But He turned and rebuked them, and said, “You do not know what kind of spirit you are of;

Sometimes when people don't want to receive Jesus... we are quick to want to call down
fire from heaven. But the real question here is ... "Do you know what kind of spirit
you are of". I think many people don't know the answer to that question. Even the
disciples didn't know... at least not yet.

In Luke 10:1; Jesus appoints 70 (or 72) other disciples to go out and preach the gospel.
He gives these 70 the power over demons also. ( Luke 10:17-20; )
It's almost like Jesus is saying "ha, that's no big deal.. I saw Satan kicked out of heaven!"

But of course it wasn't until Jesus ascended into heaven that we could even receive the Holy Spirit.

John 16:7; But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.
John 16:8; And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;
John 16:9; concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me;
John 16:10; and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me;

The Holy Spirit could not come until Jesus ascended. But when He comes, He will convict the world about sin. It's amazing how many "Christians" say they have the Holy Spirit, but have no conviction about sin.

John 7:37; Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink.
John 7:38; He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, ‘From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.’”
John 7:39; But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

The one who believes in Jesus... from his "innermost" being will flows rivers of living water!!! Do you have this river flowing from inside you?
It's seem many Christians have a dead glazed look in their eyes, a sad countenance on
their faces... but hey, they "believe" in Jesus. (or so they say)
What is this river? It's the Holy Spirit! Again, we see the Holy Spirit wasn't given to the church yet, because Jesus wasn't yet glorified.

.... all of this... and we still haven't gotten to "the Spirit inside you".
I guess this will have to be continued.

 

[Sue J Love]

@B-A-C - many people today confuse their human emotions with the Holy Spirit. They will claim the Holy Spirit was present because the music got louder or so did the preaching, which then pumps up and/or manipulates human emotions. They will say they were filled with the Spirit because of some emotional experience they had, but their lifestyles spoke (or speak) just the opposite. They forget that the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. They forget that a walk in the Spirit is not walking according to the flesh.

Rom. 8:12-14: So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.

 

[B-A-C]

Acts 1:4; Gathering them together, He commanded them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait for what the Father had promised, "Which," He said, "you heard of from Me;
Acts 1:5; for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."

Are you baptized with the Holy Spirit? The thing is... some people, even Christians don't know if they are. Some just "assume" they are.
Paul runs into 12 disciples at Ephesus with this predicament.

Acts 19:1; It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples.
Acts 19:2; He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit."
Acts 19:3; And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they said, "Into John's baptism."
Acts 19:4; Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus."
Acts 19:5; When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Acts 19:6; And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying.
Acts 19:7; There were in all about twelve men.

They were believers, they had already been baptized in water (for repentance).. but they hadn't been baptized in the Holy Spirit yet.
In the old testament, the Holy Spirit came "upon" people (versus dwelling within them).
Sometimes (because of sin) the Holy Spirit would leave people, or God would take the Spirit away from you.

1 Sam 16:14; Now the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD terrorized him.

Jdg 16:20; She said, "The Philistines are upon you, Samson!" And he awoke from his sleep and said, "I will go out as at other times and shake myself free." But he did not know that the Spirit of the LORD had departed from him.

Psa 51:11; Do not cast me away from Your presence And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me.

Some people believe this can't happen in the New testament, this usually leads to OSAS discussions, but for the purpose of
this thread it doesn't matter that much. Maybe you were saved and lost the Holy Spirit, or maybe you never had the Holy Spirit
in you to begin with and just "thought" you did. Either way, some people don't have it now.

Heb 6:4; For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5; and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Heb 6:6; and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

There may be some requirements to receiving the Holy Spirit. Some churches believe you have to ask God.
Luke 11:13; "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?"
Some also believe you have to be obedient to God in order to receive the Holy Spirit.

Acts 5:32; "And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him."

In fact many Pentecostal churches preach that without the Holy Spirit, we cannot be sanctified.
1 Pet 1:2; according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.

One way we know if we have the Holy Spirit.. is as @Sue_J_Love mentioned above. It's in Galatians 5. It's called the fruit of the Spirit. (not fruits)
Another way we know... is by the gifts of the Holy Spirit mentioned in 1 Cor 12. It seems that being "baptized" in the Holy Spirit is required before
you can be empowered to do the things mentioned in Mark 16.

Mark 16:17; "These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;
Mark 16:18; they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."

Jesus says we have to be born of the Spirit... some say this is different from being baptized in the Spirit, either way we should be pursuing both.
John 3:5; Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

If you are saved... the Holy Spirit should be dwelling within you.

Rom 8:9; However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

If you don't have the Holy Spirit in you... you don't belong to Jesus.

Rom 8:11; But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

1 Cor 3:16; Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

2 Tim 1:14; Guard, through the Holy Spirit who dwells in us, the treasure which has been entrusted to you.

I really didn't intend for this to bne so lengthy.. but there is more to say on this and I'm out of time tonight.
.. to be continued ...

 

[B-A-C]

Some people have asked me if Gentiles (anyone who is not a Jew) can get filled with the Holy Spirit.
We find the answer in Acts 10.

Acts 10:1; Now there was a man at Caesarea named Cornelius, a centurion of what was called the Italian cohort,
Acts 10:2; a devout man and one who feared God with all his household, and gave many alms to the Jewish people and prayed to God continually.

Here we have an Italian centurion, who was devout, feared God, and prayed continually. Obviously he was a believer.
Peter tells him...

Acts 10:34; Opening his mouth, Peter said: "I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality,
Acts 10:35; but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him.

Eventually we see...

Acts 10:44; While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message.
Acts 10:45; All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.
Acts 10:46; For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered,
Acts 10:47; "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?"

So its seems the gift of the Holy Spirit was given to the Gentiles, just as it was to the Jews in Acts chapter 2.

... to be continued ...

 

[B-A-C]

The Holy Spirit is also called "the Spirit of truth". This is important.

John 14:17; that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.
John 14:26; "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.
John 15:26; "When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me,
John 16:13; "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.

Why are there so many Christian denominations? Even just protestant denominations? In some cases it's just a small petty thing that separates
churches. In some cases it's a legitimate thing such as we live on different continents and speak different languages (even then, we should be
one body). The thing is, they all believe slightly differently. Some believe radically differently than others. This can be good or this can be bad
depending which side of the fence you are sitting on.

More often than not, it is basic doctrines that separate us. Once saved - always saved. The gifts of the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues.
Having priests in the church. Gay and Lesbian church members and even gay clergy. Water baptism. Trinitarianism. Universalism.
Antimonianism. Calvinism. ...and every other "ism"...

Now I think it's a little bit OK if we don't agree with everything. But there are a lot of things we should be agreeing on.
So as much as this "offends" everyone (being offended is the trend, even amongst Christians these days). The plain and
simple fact is... somebody somewhere is wrong. Now of course we all know I'm right! But seriously, everyone of us thinks
we have a monopoly on the truth. How can this be? Aren't we all being led by the Spirit of truth? Isn't the Spirit guiding us
into all truth? Every Christian I know, no matter what they believe.. claims to be led by the Holy Spirit. The Spirit of truth.
Mormons claim to have the Holy Spirit. Jehovah's witnesses claim to have the Holy Spirit. Roman Catholics claim to have
the Holy Spirit. Churches that support gay/lesbian lifestyles claim to have the Holy Spirit.

If God isn't a God of confusion (1 Cor 14:33; )... then why is there so much confusion? The obvious answer is Satan. He is the
father of lies. (John 8:44; )

Some of us are listening to lies. Not only are we listening to them, we are believing them. We claim to know Jesus but...

John 10:4; "When he puts forth all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice.
John 10:27; "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;

I am sure some churches know "His" voice. I am equally sure, some churches know "a" voice they are familiar with and are ready to follow it.
Is this the Spirit of truth? It can't all be the truth. There is only ONE truth.
Without the truth... no man comes to the Father.

John 14:6; Jesus *said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.
2 Pet 2:2' Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned;

Many of these churches I don't see the fruit of the Spirit in them. I don't see the gifts of the Spirit in them. I don't see the
leading and teaching of the Spirit in them.... but yet if you ask them... "we are being led by the Spirit". Yes, but what spirit?

My Spirit doesn't bear witness with them. Again, depending which side of the fence you are on.. that can be really good, or that can be really bad.

 

[Lanolin]

It will be some other spirit..could be a familiar spirit or a religious spirit. Evil and unclean spirits must be cast out.

There are lots of mormons in my area, but am not sure they claim they have the holy spirit...do they profess Jesus is Lord? Nobody can do that without the holy spirit, it says in the bible.

Jehovahs witness believe in a different Jesus too. There are Jesus impersonators, even in the early church there was a bar-Jesus. See acts 13:6-12

 

[B-A-C]

do they profess Jesus is Lord? Nobody can do that without the holy spirit, it says in the bible.

Agreed, but as you said...

believe in a different Jesus too

Which "Jesus" are they calling Lord?

 

[B-A-C]

The Holy Spirit can do amazing things for us.
He can lead us, guide us, teach us, sanctify us, wash us, regenerate our minds, save us, empower us, convict us,
help us to bear good fruit, give us wisdom, and Pentecostals even believe the Holy Spirit gives some
people the ability to heal others, prophesy, have word of knowledge from the Lord, and do other miracles.

But on the other hand, we can do things to the Holy Spirit as well.
We can quench the Spirit ( 1 Thess 5:19; )
We can grieve the Spirit. ( Eph 4:30; )
We can resist the Spirit. ( Acts 7:51; )
We can deny the Spirit. ( Jude 1:4; )
We can blaspheme the Spirit... ( be very careful with this one). ( Matt 12:31; Mark 3:28-29; )
We can even fall away from the Spirit. ( Heb 6:4-5; )

... to be continued ...

 

[Lanolin]

Agreed, but as you said...



Which "Jesus" are they calling Lord?

I dont know, I heard this confusing thing about Jehovahs witnesses believe Jesus is also Michael and I have no idea who Michael is.

 

[B-A-C]

I dont know, I heard this confusing thing about Jehovahs witnesses believe Jesus is also Michael and I have no idea who Michael is.

They don't believe Jesus was resurrected as Jesus. They believe when He was resurrected, he came back as Michael the arch-angel.
He is mentioned in Jude 1:9; and Rev 12:7; but it doesn't say this is Jesus anywhere. In fact the Bible says Jesus is NOT an angel.
(Hebrews chapter 1)

 

[B-A-C]

One of the things Pentecostals (Assemblies of God, Church of God, Foursquare, Vineyard, etc...) agree on is that you don't receive the baptism
of the Holy Spirit immediately when you get saved.

The the case of the disciples in the upper room, they had already been following Jesus for three years before the events in Acts 2.
In the case of Cornelius (Acts 10) he had already been a believer before he met with Peter and received the Holy Spirit.
In the case of the disciples at Ephesus, (Acts 19:1-10; ) they had already been baptized in water by John the Baptist (repentance).
..and even in the case of Paul on the road to Damascus, he was blind for 3 days (Acts 9:9; ) but doesn't receive the Holy Spirit until
he regains his sight. ( Acts 9:17-18; )

One of the things they disagree on, is whether you have to speak in tongues in order to be baptized in the Holy Spirit.
In all four instances above where people received the baptism of the Holy Spirit.. they spoke in tongues.
( Acts 2:4; Acts 10:46; Acts 19:6; 1 Cor 14:18; ) This is almost a taboo subject in non-Pentecostal churches.
But in fact, there is no place in new testament, where anyone was baptized in the Holy Spirit, where they didn't speak in tongues.
It doesn't mention Paul speaking in tongues in Acts 9, but we know he did in 1 Cor 14:18; )

Mark 16:17; "These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;
Acts 2:4; And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.
Acts 10:46; For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered,
1 Cor 14:18 I thank God, I speak in tongues more than you all;

Of course tongues is only ONE of the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
1 Cor 12:10; and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues.
1 Cor 12:28; And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues.
1 Cor 12:30; All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they?

Jesus said speaking in tongues was a sign of those who follow Him.
Mark 16:17; "These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;

Paul said he wished everyone spoke in tongues.. but...
1 Cor 14:5; Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy; and greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edifying.

He wished even more that they would prophesy. Prophesy is greater than speaking in tongues.

1 Cor 14:22; So then tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophecy is for a sign, not to unbelievers but to those who believe.
1 Cor 14:23; Therefore if the whole church assembles together and all speak in tongues, and ungifted men or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad?
1 Cor 14:39; Therefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in tongues.

Paul even prays in tongues sometimes.. If you haven't done this.. there is GREAT power in this.

1 Cor 14:14; For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.
1 Cor 14:15; What is the outcome then? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also.

Paul says tongues are a sign for unbelievers. He also tells the church.. "do not forbid" people "to speak in tongues".
Some charismatic churches get all caught up in speaking tongues. I think some even forget why they are doing it.
It is almost like they worship the gift rather than the One who gave them that gift. There are of course other gifts of the Spirit.

1 Cor 12:4; Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit.
1 Cor 12:5; And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord.
1 Cor 12:6; There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons.
1 Cor 12:7; But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.
1 Cor 12:8; For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit;
1 Cor 12:9; to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit,
1 Cor 12:10; and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues.
1 Cor 12:11; But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.

Depending on which Bible you have, verse 7 says "each" one or "everyone" is given a gift. Do you know what yours is?
Verse 7 says this is done... "for the common good". Common good of what?

1 Cor 14:5; Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy; and greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edifying.

Is your church edified by God? Or, is your church holding onto a "form" of godliness?

2 Tim 3:5; holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these.

It seems like messages like this offend people.. even Christians... nonetheless, this is what the Bible says.

 

[B-A-C]

We covered the gifts of the Spirit, but now.... how about the fruit of the Spirit?
The different between a gift and fruit is... one is given to you, the other is what you produce.
The other thing I would mention here is... the gifts aren't what determines your spiritual maturity, the fruit is what determines that.

Gal 5:16; But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.
Gal 5:17; For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please.
Gal 5:18; But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.
Gal 5:19; Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
Gal 5:20; idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,
Gal 5:21; envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22; But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Gal 5:23; gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
Gal 5:24; Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
Gal 5:25; If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.

There's a old saying.. you can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.
We can even fool ourselves sometimes. But we can't fool God.

I said earlier that I have known some "Christians" who claim to be led by the Spirit, but I see no evidence of it. What is the evidence of it?
Verses 22 ans 23 above are the evidence of it. Sometimes the evidence of the flesh is much easier to see than the evidence of the Spirit.
What is the evidence (fruit) of the flesh? Verses 19-21 above. You can't always see if someone is walking in the Spirit, but it's usually
pretty easy to see if they are walking in the flesh. Actions speak louder than words. It says here.. that if.. "IF" you are led by the Spirit,
you aren't under the law. Again, a great many Christians claim to be "led" by the Spirit.. but the evidence suggests otherwise.

One final note about verse 21 (which is very similar to 1 Cor 6:9-10; )
It doesn't say those who have ever done these things... it says those who continually "practice" these things.

 

[B-A-C]

Ok... well that the gifts of the Spirit, and the fruit of the Spirit. Notice it says fruit (singular) and fruits (plural). You either have it or you don't.
You can't have one or two of the fruits and claim to have them all. Let us also talk about the administrations (offices) of the Spirit.

1 Cor 12:28; And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues.
1 Cor 12:29; All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they?
Eph 4:11 And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers,

Of course we see apostles and prophets above. But then we also see helpers, administrators, evangelists, teachers, and pastors.
If you're a servant in the church... that's a helper. Maybe you are the janitor you clean floors and take out the trash. Maybe you make coffee.
You're just as valuable as the other offices. God will bless you for this. Maybe you're an administrator. You're the church secretary, maybe
you're the one who organizes Sunday school, or vacation bible school. Maybe you're the one who schedules the use of the sanctuary.
This is a very important position in many churches. In fact the joke in my church is... if you really want to know what is going on in the
church, don't ask the pastor, ask his secretary .

I'd like to take a second to talk about teaching here. I'm not an apostle, or pastor, or evangelist, but through the last 35 years or so, it
seems my gift has been teaching. (also discernment of Spirits). Not all who call themselves teachers are appointed by God to that
position.

The Bible talks about this.

1 Tim 1:7; wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions.
2 Tim 4:3; For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,
2 Pet 2:1; But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.

Not everyone who wants to be a teacher is teaching the truth.
On the other hand, there are many who should be teaching, who aren't ready yet.

Heb 5:12; For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the oracles of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food.

It seems it's still this way even today. We should be teaching others, but we have forgotten the "elementary principles" of God.
But if you want to become a teacher, make sure it's your calling. (do the same with all the other offices which are all equally important).
There are things to beware of if you decide to become a teacher.

Jas 3:1; Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment.

It seems I will likely be one of those who will have a "stricter judgment".

 

[KingJ]

Jas 3:1; Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment.
It seems I will likely be one of those who will have a "stricter judgment".

This is interesting. It is because teachers can influence how others think.

The Holy Spirit cannot always easily renew our minds and set us free from the crippling effects of bad teaching. We are all consistent sinners. We don't always follow the lead of the Holy Spirit as we should. The Holy Spirit does not force Himself upon us.

 

[B-A-C]

This is interesting. It is because teachers can influence how others think.

I think you are right. We under estimate how what we say affects other people thoughts sometimes.

Matt 18:6; but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.
Matt 18:7; "Woe to the world because of its stumbling blocks! For it is inevitable that stumbling blocks come; but woe to that man through whom the stumbling block comes!

Are you a stumbling block? (I'm not asking @KingJ, it's rhetorical) Are you causing those who believe in Jesus to stumble?

Mark 9:42; "Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe to stumble, it would be better for him if, with a heavy millstone hung around his neck, he had been cast into the sea.

Doesn't sound like a good fate is awaiting those people.

2 Pet 2:1; But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.
2 Pet 2:2; Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned;
2 Pet 2:3; and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.
2 Pet 2:4; For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment;

"there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them"

We have these people here on TJ. Most often they are very easy to spot, but sometimes they are very subtle. They may have been bought with
a price, but they even deny the Master who bought them.

"because of them the way of the truth will be maligned; " -- sadly, many are following these misaligned ways.

2 Pet 2:9; then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment,
2 Pet 2:10; and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority. Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties,

It's interesting to note here, that these people and angels are cast into hell before they are even judged. After the judgment comes a worse fate for some.

Rev 20:11; Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.
Rev 20:12; And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.
Rev 20:13; And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.

Sorry for getting off topic a little here, but the point here is.. yes there is a price to pay for those who cause others to stumble.

 

[B-A-C]

We don't always follow the lead of the Holy Spirit as we should. The Holy Spirit does not force Himself upon us.

Amen, another very good point. But almost heresy to Calvinists.

 

[B-A-C]

One of the things the Holy Spirit does.. is "help" us. A helper doesn't make you do anything. A helper may suggest, they may guide you,
they may assist you, they may persuade you. But a helper doesn't force you to do anything.

John 14:16; "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;
John 14:26; "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.
John 15:26; "When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me,
John 16:7; "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.

The Holy Spirit (Helper) comes from the Father... but it is Jesus who sends Him to us.

 

[Born Again 2004]

This is interesting. It is because teachers can influence how others think.

The Holy Spirit cannot always easily renew our minds and set us free from the crippling effects of bad teaching. We are all consistent sinners. We don't always follow the lead of the Holy Spirit as we should. The Holy Spirit does not force Himself upon us.

That's why we have Romans 8:1 ! Walk after the Spirit doesn't mean perfectly.

 

[KingJ]

That's why we have Romans 8:1 ! Walk after the Spirit doesn't mean perfectly.

Agreed. Only God is good Mark 10:18.

 

[Lanolin]

That's why we have Romans 8:1 ! Walk after the Spirit doesn't mean perfectly.

That verse in esv is wrong, its been truncated. The true version reads:

There for there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus who walk not in the flesh, but after the spirit.

You CANNOT walk after the flesh and be in Christ Jesus at the same time...the flesh must be crucified.

When we walk in the spirit, the helper leads and guides us to all truth. Actually the holy spirit IS perfect..,thats why the spirit is HOLY.

If you have an ESV, chuck it. Get a real bible.