The Saviour of the World ?

[wincam]

Jesus tells us 'people honour me with their lips but their hearts are far from me' here it seems He is not really accepted as being the Saviour of the world for it seems many really accept and teach that He has failed = thousands already in hell - is failing and will fail = thousands on the broad road - any comments - wincam

 

[AlertChristians]

Children of Satan will be burned. See the parable of the wheat and the tares. Satan still fathers children in the world. Children of the kingdom will have eternal life. Many are called, but few are chosen.

(Relatively) few will find the narrow gate and hard way to eternal life. Many are not even seeking that they might "find". Many are living the broad and easy way that leads to destruction.

 

[Fragrant Grace]

There is a message of Good News to share with the unsaved world.

This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners;
1 Timothy 1:15


Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Acts 4:12

 

[wincam]

Children of Satan will be burned. See the parable of the wheat and the tares. Satan still fathers children in the world. Children of the kingdom will have eternal life. Many are called, but few are chosen.

(Relatively) few will find the narrow gate and hard way to eternal life. Many are not even seeking that they might "find". Many are living the broad and easy way that leads to destruction.

this is nolt really realised or accepted = tares/wolves in sheep clothing/goats/children of [the father of] this world/children of darkness/broods of vipers etc in thousands - imho because the Saviour of the world will succeed there will be no Christians in hell or even non Christians but only the devil and his angels and children for whom hell was prepared in the beginning[Matt 25:41] - wincsam

 

[AlertChristians]

this is nolt really realised or accepted = tares/wolves in sheep clothing/goats/children of [the father of] this world/children of darkness/broods of vipers etc in thousands - imho because the Saviour of the world will succeed there will be no Christians in hell or even non Christians but only the devil and his angels and children for whom hell was prepared in the beginning[Matt 25:41] - wincsam

"For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many."

Compared to the many, few will find the narrow gate and hard way that leads to life.

The elect will have eternal life, except possibly some who may be deceived?

 

[B-A-C]

You have to make the choice to "accept" Jesus.

John 1:12; But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,

Rev 3:20; 'Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

Luke 12:8; "And I say to you, everyone who confesses Me before men, the Son of Man will confess him also before the angels of God;
Rom 10:9; that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

imho because the Saviour of the world will succeed there will be no Christians in hell or even non Christians but only the devil and his angels and children for whom hell was prepared in the beginning[Matt 25:41] - wincsam

If only one person got saved, Jesus would succeed. Jesus told the thief on the cross He would be with Him in paradise.

2 Pet 2:4; For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment;
2 Pet 2:9; then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment,
2 Pet 2:10; and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority. Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties,

Rev 20:15; And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Rev 21:8; "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

Matt 10:15; "Truly I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city.

Rom 2:5; But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,

Matt 7:13; "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
Matt 7:14; "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Matt 7:21; "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Matt 7:22; "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
Matt 7:23; "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

Heb 5:9; And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation,

 

[KingJ]

Jesus tells us 'people honour me with their lips but their hearts are far from me' here it seems He is not really accepted as being the Saviour of the world for it seems many really accept and teach that He has failed = thousands already in hell - is failing and will fail = thousands on the broad road - any comments - wincam

Who are those that teach this? Jesus failing?

Jesus did not fail at anything. He gave all of mankind the opportunity to be reconciled with God. That many reject Him / choose to love the darkness John 3:19, is a separate issue.

If only one person chose to accept Jesus, still not a fail.

 

[Fragrant Grace]

Jesus tells us 'people honour me with their lips but their hearts are far from me' here it seems He is not really accepted as being the Saviour of the world for it seems many really accept and teach that He has failed = thousands already in hell - is failing and will fail = thousands on the broad road - any comments - wincam

Yet in another thread you say something very contradictory.

#1wincam, Yesterday at 9:35 PM
it is fairly easily seen and accepted that we had no say in our creation but not so easily seen or accepted that we have no say in our salvation either - rejoice and be glad we are saved warts and all imho - wincam


@wincam

Firstly may I state absolutely that Jesus did not, can not and never will fail.
No Christian will say anything to the contrary

Secondly, please back your posts up with scripture.

 

[wincam]

Yet in another thread you say something very contradictory.

#1wincam, Yesterday at 9:35 PM
it is fairly easily seen and accepted that we had no say in our creation but not so easily seen or accepted that we have no say in our salvation either - rejoice and be glad we are saved warts and all imho - wincam


@wincam

Firstly may I state absolutely that Jesus did not, can not and never will fail.
No Christian will say anything to the contrary

Secondly, please back your posts up with scripture.

I normally do but I cant quote scripture for what is mainly said and accepted outside of scripture like many Christians already in hell and many on the way - please be reasonable and kind and just - wincam

 

[Sue D.]

@wincom -- your comment "for what is mainly said and accepted outside of Scripture...." is problematic.

"many Christians....." what constitutes a 'Christian'. A person can say they are 'Christian' on the basis that they believe in God in contrast to some other entity. Or that a person goes to church on Christmas and Easter. Or that a person goes to a church because it's family tradition / parents / grandparents. They hear a sermon, pay their tithe , maybe get married in the church and are buried by the church. Other than That , the term "Christian" means nothing to them.

So, in That respect -- there probably are and will be Lots of 'christians' in hell.

How many pastors teach Bible these days. How many teach salvation. How many teach the coming reality of heaven or hell / lake of fire and brimstone in every persons' future that Will last Forever.

A real Christian is a born-again believer -- a person who has accepted Jesus Christ as his / her own personal Savior. They are trying to live as Christ-like a life as they can. They are Christ-followers. THAT person will Not already be in hell or on their way.

Everyone has a 'say' in their salvation. They either accept or reject God's gift Of salvation. And it Is true that God already knows -- has Always known who will and who won't accept Him as Savior. We're the one's who Don't know. And we Are told to share the Gospel unto Salvation with all people.

Referring back to your post # 4 -- you're suggesting universal salvation on one hand and on the Other hand -- for children for whom hell was prepared for in the beginning. Your passage in Matthew 25:41 says the devil and his angels in contrast to your including 'and children'.

 

[wincam]

@wincom -- your comment "for what is mainly said and accepted outside of Scripture...." is problematic.

"many Christians....." what constitutes a 'Christian'. A person can say they are 'Christian' on the basis that they believe in God in contrast to some other entity. Or that a person goes to church on Christmas and Easter. Or that a person goes to a church because it's family tradition / parents / grandparents. They hear a sermon, pay their tithe , maybe get married in the church and are buried by the church. Other than That , the term "Christian" means nothing to them.

So, in That respect -- there probably are and will be Lots of 'christians' in hell.

How many pastors teach Bible these days. How many teach salvation. How many teach the coming reality of heaven or hell / lake of fire and brimstone in every persons' future that Will last Forever.

A real Christian is a born-again believer -- a person who has accepted Jesus Christ as his / her own personal Savior. They are trying to live as Christ-like a life as they can. They are Christ-followers. THAT person will Not already be in hell or on their way.

Everyone has a 'say' in their salvation. They either accept or reject God's gift Of salvation. And it Is true that God already knows -- has Always known who will and who won't accept Him as Savior. We're the one's who Don't know. And we Are told to share the Gospel unto Salvation with all people.

Referring back to your post # 4 -- you're suggesting universal salvation on one hand and on the Other hand -- for children for whom hell was prepared for in the beginning. Your passage in Matthew 25:41 says the devil and his angels in contrast to your including 'and children'.

the devil's children would be angels in disguise etc - even supposed born again believers fall away in droves and the ones with the supposed best Christian input it seems fall away in the greatest number and this seems to be exactly with Jesus teaching that to simply believe is simply very difficult or well nigh impossible for adults - we have a SAVIOUR who knows this and allows for it and provides against this and saves us warts and all - imho no one had a say in their creation nor do we have a say in our salvation - we are chosen and children of God that He came to save and has saved = the fine is already paid even before the judgement for He came to save the world not to judge it so let us truly rejoice and be glad and let no one rob us of our salvation - we are either saved in spite or despite ourselves or we are damned and lost imho - wincam

Who are those that teach this? Jesus failing?

Jesus did not fail at anything. He gave all of mankind the opportunity to be reconciled with God. That many reject Him / choose to love the darkness John 3:19, is a separate issue.

If only one person chose to accept Jesus, still not a fail.

yes a failure as the Saviour of the world for in my Father's house are many mansions and I GO TO PREPARE A PLACE FOR YOU ALL -imho - wincam

 

[Sue D.]

@wincom -- what about the fact that immediately upon a person's salvation that the Holy Spirit comes to indwell that person -- sealing them until the time they are with Jesus Christ.

"angels in disguise"? Are you referring to the fallen angels? They are spirit-beings here on earth. The demon world Does -- at times -- appear in the form of dead people through saences -- the ghost hunters programs that used to be on TV - people would call them because they'd see 'people floating' in the air -- that there was Something haunting places. It was demonic activity --demons making themselves visible for very brief times to people.

I'm glad that my salvation and that of every one isn't based on 'your humble opinion' -- it Is based on 1 Corinthians 15:1-3 or so.

Your very last sentence -- "yes, a failure......." doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

the fact that Jesus Christ Did come to this earth and Did die on the cross for / with our sins And DID rise again from the dead on the third day --makes Our salvation possible. Without That -- mankind has No Savior. Everyone would be dying in their sins and being in hell For Eternity. It is The Greatest Gift God could ever give to mankind.

 

[wincam]

@wincom -- what about the fact that immediately upon a person's salvation that the Holy Spirit comes to indwell that person -- sealing them until the time they are with Jesus Christ.

"angels in disguise"? Are you referring to the fallen angels? They are spirit-beings here on earth. The demon world Does -- at times -- appear in the form of dead people through saences -- the ghost hunters programs that used to be on TV - people would call them because they'd see 'people floating' in the air -- that there was Something haunting places. It was demonic activity --demons making themselves visible for very brief times to people.

I'm glad that my salvation and that of every one isn't based on 'your humble opinion' -- it Is based on 1 Corinthians 15:1-3 or so.

Your very last sentence -- "yes, a failure......." doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

the fact that Jesus Christ Did come to this earth and Did die on the cross for / with our sins And DID rise again from the dead on the third day --makes Our salvation possible. Without That -- mankind has No Savior. Everyone would be dying in their sins and being in hell For Eternity. It is The Greatest Gift God could ever give to mankind.

if Jesus only saved one person then as SAVIOUR of the world He would have failed - wincam

 

[Sue D.]

But Why would only one person accepting Him put Him as a Failure? Or do you believe that having Died and Risen again for all of mankind, means that All of mankind Should be saved? Well -- that Would be nice, but since there Is the devil in the mix -- at least for Now -- the devil wants Lots of company in hell with him for Ever. Satan / the devil knows our weaknesses and tempts us to follow him instead of God. Remember back in the garden of Eden -- mankind had it all through Adam and Eve. Then satan tempted Eve -- she believed satan's lie instead of God's Truth. That messed up everything. Salvation has been made possible -- Not automatic. A person needs to Accept a gift before it becomes 'ours'. A person needs to Accept God's gift of salvation before heaven becomes our eternal home.

 

[wincam]

But Why would only one person accepting Him put Him as a Failure? Or do you believe that having Died and Risen again for all of mankind, means that All of mankind Should be saved? Well -- that Would be nice, but since there Is the devil in the mix -- at least for Now -- the devil wants Lots of company in hell with him for Ever. Satan / the devil knows our weaknesses and tempts us to follow him instead of God. Remember back in the garden of Eden -- mankind had it all through Adam and Eve. Then satan tempted Eve -- she believed satan's lie instead of God's Truth. That messed up everything. Salvation has been made possible -- Not automatic. A person needs to Accept a gift before it becomes 'ours'. A person needs to Accept God's gift of salvation before heaven becomes our eternal home.[/QUOTE



imho - the good news is bad news to you and you are spreading it to others - God cannot be fooled so HE is and was aware of the wiles and snares of the devil and our own inherent weaknesses and has provided for and against them - salvation is for all except for the devil and his angels and children even his grown up children - if only one person accepted how would the saviour of the world be the saviour of the world - your free gift is offered with conditions attached - it is like a paramedic who gives you your life back whilst you are unconscious or in a coma - wincam

 

[Sue D.]

@wincam -- the good news -- the Gospel unto salvation -- made possible by God to us through Jesus Christ's death, burial and bodily resurrection. And That is the gospel we Are to be sharing with everyone who is willing to listen to God's Word.
I really Don't understand your comment about the devil's angels and 'even his grown-up children' -- That part.

Everyone in this world will either accept or reject Jesus Christ as personal Savior. That gift needs to be accepted -- apparently you feel that the very act of Accepting the gift -- is a string attached.

And I Really don't understand your comparison -- about the paramedic who gives your life back while you're in a coma or unconscious.

Some years ago there was a lady who realized that she had sinned -- no question about it -- but she didn't want Anyone else to pay for it -- to her -- too many people were Not willing to accept personal responsibility For their wrong doings.
We were Trying to explain to her that Jesus Christ dying and bodily resurrection paid for hers and everyone's sin so that no one Had to spend eternity in hell. She said she felt really bad that Jesus Christ had to do that. We Tried to assure her that He Wanted to do that For her. He didn't want Anyone to end up in hell, but to be able to be in heaven. She didn't accept that. She was Determined to pay for her own sin. If she had to suffer for all eternity, so be it.

So, yes, Jesus Christ IS the Savior of the world -- but a person needs to accept Him as their Savior. The Holy Spirit does Not simply jump into a person and 'save' the person. A person needs to believe in their heart and confess with their mouth the Lord Jesus.

 

[KingJ]

yes a failure as the Saviour of the world for in my Father's house are many mansions and I GO TO PREPARE A PLACE FOR YOU ALL -imho - wincam

Which scripture says His goal was to save the world?

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that the whomsoever will....

 

[wincam]

@wincam -- the good news -- the Gospel unto salvation -- made possible by God to us through Jesus Christ's death, burial and bodily resurrection. And That is the gospel we Are to be sharing with everyone who is willing to listen to God's Word.
I really Don't understand your comment about the devil's angels and 'even his grown-up children' -- That part.

Everyone in this world will either accept or reject Jesus Christ as personal Savior. That gift needs to be accepted -- apparently you feel that the very act of Accepting the gift -- is a string attached.

And I Really don't understand your comparison -- about the paramedic who gives your life back while you're in a coma or unconscious.

Some years ago there was a lady who realized that she had sinned -- no question about it -- but she didn't want Anyone else to pay for it -- to her -- too many people were Not willing to accept personal responsibility For their wrong doings.
We were Trying to explain to her that Jesus Christ dying and bodily resurrection paid for hers and everyone's sin so that no one Had to spend eternity in hell. She said she felt really bad that Jesus Christ had to do that. We Tried to assure her that He Wanted to do that For her. He didn't want Anyone to end up in hell, but to be able to be in heaven. She didn't accept that. She was Determined to pay for her own sin. If she had to suffer for all eternity, so be it.

So, yes, Jesus Christ IS the Savior of the world -- but a person needs to accept Him as their Savior. The Holy Spirit does Not simply jump into a person and 'save' the person. A person needs to believe in their heart and confess with their mouth the Lord Jesus.

ah yes here we have it exactly as Jesus said viz the broad road and the narrow road - you and many others are proposing that we take the broad road whilst Jesus proposed the narrow road as the first option- the first option was simply simply believe[Jn 20:31] but it seems exactly as Jesus said the first option to simply simply believe seems to be very difficult or well nigh impossible for most adults - this is the narrow road that few can take so they try the hard broad road - so then being on this broad road they cannot save themselves but will try and suggest all sorts but let go sand let God imho - wincam

Which scripture says His goal was to save the world?

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that the whomsoever will....

I have come not to judge the world but to save it [Jn 12:47 t

 

[Sue D.]

@wincam -- the passage you quoted in # 11 -- the very last sentence -- was part of John 14:1 - 6 // the last part of vs 2 you added the 'all'. The verse reads "I am going there to prepare a place for you." You're reading 'all' into it.

And it's very true -- Jesus Christ died on the cross for all of mankind. But He also knows that not everyone will Accept.

The first part of the John 12:47 passage -- As for the person who hears My words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it." Yes, He did come to save it - the world -- and -- who so ever will may come. Not everyone Will come. I know of two people who've been very anti-salvation -- one has passed away. The other was bound and determined to pay for her own sin by dying with it.

And, on what basis are you saying that I am proposing that anyone would take the broad road rather than the way of Jesus Christ. I've never Ever suggested that.

 

[KingJ]

I have come not to judge the world but to save it [Jn 12:47

The 'save it' is in contrast to judging it. The verse / response is dealing with judging it and not saving it. There is no verse where Jesus says He has come to save the entire world / take every person with Him to heaven.

Example: Lets say my four children got lost on a camp. I go to the camp site. The owner says 'please don't sue me'. I say, 'don’t worry, I have not come here to sue you, just to save / find my children'. I then find all four. But two decide they want to stay. I go home with only two. Does my wife say that I did not save all four? No. I found all four / wanted all four to come home with me, but I respected the decision of two to stay. If I forced those two to come home with me, I would be over riding their free will.

No free will is evil. God is not evil. As such, the reality of all not being saved is evidence of a good God.