THE RICH MAN AND LAZARUS (Luke 16) IS NOT A PARABLE

[Butch5]

Not really my opinion

The story is very specific. Specific name is given. Specifics to fire. Specific to drop of water. Specific conversation. Specifically mentions a chat with Abraham. Far from parable. This should be English 101 / Greek 101 / Latin 101. Grammar and comprehension.

You're right, it is very specific. So what do those specifics mean? Why the name Lazarus as opposed to say, Peter or Thomas or any other name? There's a reason Jesus chose the name Lazarus. What about the rich man having 5 brothers? Why not 4 brothers or 7 brothers? There's a reason Jesus chose 5 brothers. Why is the rich man clothed in purple and fine linen? Why not some other clothing? There's a reason Jesus chose purple and fine linen. Why did Jesus say that the dogs licked Lazarus' sores? Theres a reason Jesus said the dogs licked Lazarus' sores. Why Abraham's bosom? Why not Jacob's bosomn, Isaac's bosom or Davids bosom? There's a reason Jesus chose Abraham and not the others. What do any of these details have to do with an afterlife of ghosts? If the parable was about the afterlife as you guys claim Jesus could easily have said there were two guys, one went to firey torment and the other to a place of peace and rest. This is what happens when people die. He didn't say that or anything like that. He gave very specific details so that those He was speaking to, the Scribes and Pharisees, would know exactly what He meant

So, yes, the details are specific. The problem is that we can't claim it's not a parable because the details are specific and then ignore those very details. So, what do those details mean. What is Jesus talking about when He speaks of these details. Because, those details have nothing to do with an afterlife of ghosts. If the story is about the afterlife the detail have no relevance. However, Because Jesus went to great lengths to include those details they are pertinent to the story. So, what do they mean?

 

[KingJ]

You're right, it is very specific. So what do those specifics mean? Why the name Lazarus as opposed to say, Peter or Thomas or any other name? There's a reason Jesus chose the name Lazarus. What about the rich man having 5 brothers? Why not 4 brothers or 7 brothers? There's a reason Jesus chose 5 brothers. Why is the rich man clothed in purple and fine linen? Why not some other clothing? There's a reason Jesus chose purple and fine linen. Why did Jesus say that the dogs licked Lazarus' sores? Theres a reason Jesus said the dogs licked Lazarus' sores. Why Abraham's bosom? Why not Jacob's bosomn, Isaac's bosom or Davids bosom? There's a reason Jesus chose Abraham and not the others. What do any of these details have to do with an afterlife of ghosts? If the parable was about the afterlife as you guys claim Jesus could easily have said there were two guys, one went to firey torment and the other to a place of peace and rest. This is what happens when people die. He didn't say that or anything like that. He gave very specific details so that those He was speaking to, the Scribes and Pharisees, would know exactly what He meant

So, yes, the details are specific. The problem is that we can't claim it's not a parable because the details are specific and then ignore those very details. So, what do those details mean. What is Jesus talking about when He speaks of these details. Because, those details have nothing to do with an afterlife of ghosts. If the story is about the afterlife the detail have no relevance. However, Because Jesus went to great lengths to include those details they are pertinent to the story. So, what do they mean?

You are going to read meaning into every detail? That sounds like you truly reaching.

 

[Butch5]

You are going to read meaning into every detail? That sounds like you truly reaching.

Whoa! Hold on! You're the one who said it was specific. Now when pressed for the specifics you want to bail? If you don't know the answers just say so and we can have a conversation. But, you can't claim it's specific to make your point and then disregard those specifics when it's not convenient.

Why did Jesus say the rich man had 5 brothers? He was addressing the Scribes and Pharisees. These were the leadership of Israel, the priesthood. From what tribe was the Proesthood? They were the Levites from the tribe of Levi. Levi had "five brothers". The rich man was clothed in purple and fine linen. The priesthood wore purple and fine linen. The rich man was a Jew, he called Abraham his father. The rich man fared sumptuously. The priesthood faired sumptuously. In Malachi God accused them of robbing the nation. All of the details Jesus gave about the rich man pertain to the priesthood. What about the rich man being in Hades in the flame? In Deut. 32 in the Song of Moses, Moses predicts Israel's turning away from God and God says that His anger will burn to the lowest Hades. The rich man is burning in Hades, not Gehenna. The only two places in the Bible where there is fire in Hades is this passage from Jesus and Deut. 32. We know this is referring to Jesus day because Paul quotes from the passage and applies it to the time of Christ so there's no doubt that Jesus is referring to Deut. 32 when he describes the rich man in Hades in the flame. But aes we see, this is not a literal fire, it's God's anger that is burning. It's burning against the priesthhod.

What about Lazarus? The nam Lazarus means God help or God will help. Jesus is actually quoting an OT prophecy that is about Him. Lazarus was poor. Jesus was poor. It says the dogs licked his sores. Jesus was rejected by the Jewish leadership but was accepted by the Gentiles. The Jews called the Gentiles dogs. Lazarus was carried away by angels to his father's (Abraham) bosom. Jesus was carried away to His Father's (God) bosom. John says that Jesus is in the bosom of the Father.

These details are more than coincidence. As you pointed out, they're very specific. They are important to understanding the parable.

The priesthood was about to be destroyed by God for crucifying Christ, the priesthood, the rich man, was going to the grave, Hades. It will remain there until the very end of time when God will again acknowledge it, that time is represented by the great gulf that cannot be crossed. Nothing can bring the priesthood relief during their exile. When the time is full God will end it. Until then they will remain in the flame' God's anger, in Hades. In Isaiah 29 the Jewish leadership is said to be speaking out of the ground, out of the dust. The rich man was speaking out of the ground, out of the dust.

So, you see the details are important, very important. That's why they are so specific. We can just ignore them and force some other meaning on the passage.

 

[Butch5]

Is anyone going to engage with the details of the parable?