The Only Begotten Son Of God.

[Squeaky]

Yes, it is good to have peaceful conversations. But we are talking about something with high stakes, concerning matters which are eternal.

Saying that Jesus is not God is a big deal. Not just because you say it, but because you truly believe that. I'm concerned for the future of your soul. We both know that the gate is small and the way narrow that leads to salvation. We need to get things right in order to enter into the small gate. Jesus is pretty picky about who he lets through.

If Jesus is God (which I believe he is), and you deny that reality, Jesus is not going to let you through the small gate if you do not acknowledge the fact that he is God.

We must worship the Father in spirit and in truth. If we are not worshipping him in truth, then we are not worshipping him in spirit either. The two are inseparable.

Travis

I said
And if Jesus is not God. Your in big trouble, right. I prove everything I say with scripture. No one has ever proved to me that Jesus could be God. They claim it, they say it. but absolutely no evidence. Jesus said He wasn't God when He said the Father is the only true God. Paul said Jesus wasn't God when he said for us there is only one God the Father. And you reject that on the basis of what some preacher told you.

Luke 10:22
22 "All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him."
(NKJ)
John 17:1-3
1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)
1 Cor 8:5-6
5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords),
6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
(NKJ)

 

[Travis]

I said
And if Jesus is not God. Your in big trouble, right. I prove everything I say with scripture. No one has ever proved to me that Jesus could be God. They claim it, they say it. but absolutely no evidence. Jesus said He wasn't God when He said the Father is the only true God.

John 17:1-3
1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)

John 8
54 Jesus answered, "If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say, 'He is our God.' 55 But you have not known him. I know him. If I were to say that I do not know him, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and I keep his word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad." 57 So the Jews said to him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?" 58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am." 59 So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.​

Jesus is the "I Am" of the Old Testament Scriptures.

John 20
27 Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe." 28 Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!" 29 Jesus said to him, "Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."​

If Jesus was not Thomas's God, he surely would have corrected him. For a Jew to call anyone God, or "my God," other than the one true God is/was blasphemy, and rightly so. So, either Jesus allowed Thomas to blaspheme, or Jesus is God.

To sum it all up, let's look at Hebrews Chapter 1:

Hebrews 1
1 Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. 3 He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs. 5 For to which of the angels did God ever say, "You are my Son, today I have begotten you"? Or again, "I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son"? 6 And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says, "Let all God's angels worship him." 7 Of the angels he says, "He makes his angels winds, and his ministers a flame of fire." 8 But of the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom. 9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions." 10 And, "You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands; 11 they will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment, 12 like a robe you will roll them up, like a garment they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will have no end." 13 And to which of the angels has he ever said, "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet"? 14 Are they not all ministering spirits sent out to serve for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation?​

Worship belongs to God alone. Yet verse 6 shows that the Father instructed all the angels to worship this man, Christ Jesus. Who is worthy of worship other than God himself? Thats rhetorical of course.

Then verse 8 makes it plain as day, God says, " Your throne, O God…." referring to Jesus Christ. God calls him God, or in other words, God the Father, calls God the Son (Jesus) God.

So, is the Father the one true God? Of course. But Jesus calling Him this does not exclude Jesus from sharing in that divinity, as sharing equally in the Godhead.

Jesus Christ is LORD.

Grace to you,

Travis

 

[Travis]

Paul said Jesus wasn't God when he said for us there is only one God the Father. And you reject that on the basis of what some preacher told you.

1 Cor 8:5-6
5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords),
6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
(NKJ)

2 Peter 3
15 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. 17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability. 18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.​

No one said Paul's writings are easy to understand. But, let's not jump to conclusions based on one verse, ignoring the full council of God found in the totality of scripture.

Lets take another look at this verse in context?

1 Corinthians 8
1 Now concerning food offered to idols: we know that "all of us possess knowledge." This "knowledge" puffs up, but love builds up. 2 If anyone imagines that he knows something, he does not yet know as he ought to know. 3 But if anyone loves God, he is known by God. 4 Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that "an idol has no real existence," and that "there is no God but one." 5 For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth--as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords"-- 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist. 7 However, not all possess this knowledge. But some, through former association with idols, eat food as really offered to an idol, and their conscience, being weak, is defiled. 8 Food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do. 9 But take care that this right of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak. 10 For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol's temple, will he not be encouraged, if his conscience is weak, to eat food offered to idols? 11 And so by your knowledge this weak person is destroyed, the brother for whom Christ died. 12 Thus, sinning against your brothers and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ. 13 Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble.​

The whole chapter is about idols and gods (AKA demons). The pagans at this time, whom most in this church once were, served a plethora of gods. Paul is focusing on the fact that God is one (trinity, tri-unity, three and one. The fact that God is one is just as important as the fact that He is three), as opposed to many parts which are often in opposition to one another like the pagan gods. To turn verse into some kind of proof text about Jesus not being God is to take the verse completely out of it's context in my opinion.

Jesus is equal with the Father. But often the scriptures use the word God (θεός), to refer specifically to the Father. This is not to exclude Jesus from the Godhead, but only to emphasize the Father as the head, whom Jesus is not lesser than in any way, but in a relational aspect is subject to (the Father) in order to demonstrate key things regarding authority, love, service, etc... to the world.

Travis

 

[Travis]

xxx God the Father done all the creating. God the Father sent His Son Jesus to pay for our sins. And to be an example of how to worship God the Father in the right Spirit. God created Jesus first before anything else. Then God had someone to love. God had someone to give to, but Jesus didnt have anyone that He could give to. So God created everything else through Jesus or for Jesus. The heavens and the earth were created for Jesus. Now to purchase them Jesus had to die on the cross. We all have to prove ourselves to God. Jesus proved Himself, and made the way that we can prove ourselves.
GOD EVEN CREATED JESUS

I'm just asking this out of curiosity… but, do you have any association with the Jehovah's Witnesses in the past, or currently?

Just wondering,

Travis

 

[Squeaky]

John 8
54 Jesus answered, "If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say, 'He is our God.' 55 But you have not known him. I know him. If I were to say that I do not know him, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and I keep his word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad." 57 So the Jews said to him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?" 58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am." 59 So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.​

Jesus is the "I Am" of the Old Testament Scriptures.

John 20
27 Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe." 28 Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!" 29 Jesus said to him, "Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."​

If Jesus was not Thomas's God, he surely would have corrected him. For a Jew to call anyone God, or "my God," other than the one true God is/was blasphemy, and rightly so. So, either Jesus allowed Thomas to blaspheme, or Jesus is God.

To sum it all up, let's look at Hebrews Chapter 1:

Hebrews 1
1 Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. 3 He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs. 5 For to which of the angels did God ever say, "You are my Son, today I have begotten you"? Or again, "I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son"? 6 And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says, "Let all God's angels worship him." 7 Of the angels he says, "He makes his angels winds, and his ministers a flame of fire." 8 But of the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom. 9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions." 10 And, "You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands; 11 they will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment, 12 like a robe you will roll them up, like a garment they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will have no end." 13 And to which of the angels has he ever said, "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet"? 14 Are they not all ministering spirits sent out to serve for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation?​

Worship belongs to God alone. Yet verse 6 shows that the Father instructed all the angels to worship this man, Christ Jesus. Who is worthy of worship other than God himself? Thats rhetorical of course.

Then verse 8 makes it plain as day, God says, " Your throne, O God…." referring to Jesus Christ. God calls him God, or in other words, God the Father, calls God the Son (Jesus) God.

So, is the Father the one true God? Of course. But Jesus calling Him this does not exclude Jesus from sharing in that divinity, as sharing equally in the Godhead.

Jesus Christ is LORD.

Grace to you,

Travis

I said
THE I AM DELUSION
Matt 16:13-17
13 When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, "Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?"
14 So they said, "Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"
16 Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
17 Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
John 7:39-43
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
40 Many of the people therefore, when they heard this saying, said, Of a truth this is the Prophet.
41 Others said, This is the Christ. But some said, Shall Christ come out of Galilee?
42 Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?
43 So there was a division among the people because of him.
John 7:51-52
51 Doth our law judge any man, before it hear him, and know what he doeth?
52 They answered and said unto him, Art thou also of Galilee? Search, and look: for out of Galilee ariseth no prophet.
John 8:1-2
1 Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.
2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.
John 8:12
12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
John 8:16-18
16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.
17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
John 8:21
21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.
John 8:23-24
23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
John 8:28-29
28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.
John 8:58-59
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
(KJV)
xxx Jesus was teaching in the temple and they were questioning Him on whether or not He was the Christ. Then they all went home and came back the next day to question Him some more. When Jesus told them: you will die in your sins if you do not believe that I am He. Then in verse 58 Jesus was telling them that even before Abraham that I am . But they picked up stones to throw at Him so they cut Jesus off in the middle of His sentance and Jesus got out of there. Jesus was claiming that" I AM He" the Christ. Jesus was not claiming He was God.
verse 24 and 28 Jesus said it, I am he. Jesus was saying He was the Christ that they were speaking of in John 7-41. But in is obvious why they didnt understand from John 7-39 they havent received the Holy Spirit yet. And even today many do not know the Spirit and get deceived in the verses.

 

[Squeaky]

2 Peter 3
15 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. 17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability. 18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.​

No one said Paul's writings are easy to understand. But, let's not jump to conclusions based on one verse, ignoring the full council of God found in the totality of scripture.

Lets take another look at this verse in context?

1 Corinthians 8
1 Now concerning food offered to idols: we know that "all of us possess knowledge." This "knowledge" puffs up, but love builds up. 2 If anyone imagines that he knows something, he does not yet know as he ought to know. 3 But if anyone loves God, he is known by God. 4 Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that "an idol has no real existence," and that "there is no God but one." 5 For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth--as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords"-- 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist. 7 However, not all possess this knowledge. But some, through former association with idols, eat food as really offered to an idol, and their conscience, being weak, is defiled. 8 Food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do. 9 But take care that this right of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak. 10 For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol's temple, will he not be encouraged, if his conscience is weak, to eat food offered to idols? 11 And so by your knowledge this weak person is destroyed, the brother for whom Christ died. 12 Thus, sinning against your brothers and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ. 13 Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble.​

The whole chapter is about idols and gods (AKA demons). The pagans at this time, whom most in this church once were, served a plethora of gods. Paul is focusing on the fact that God is one (trinity, tri-unity, three and one. The fact that God is one is just as important as the fact that He is three), as opposed to many parts which are often in opposition to one another like the pagan gods. To turn verse into some kind of proof text about Jesus not being God is to take the verse completely out of it's context in my opinion.

Jesus is equal with the Father. But often the scriptures use the word God (θεός), to refer specifically to the Father. This is not to exclude Jesus from the Godhead, but only to emphasize the Father as the head, whom Jesus is not lesser than in any way, but in a relational aspect is subject to (the Father) in order to demonstrate key things regarding authority, love, service, etc... to the world.

Travis

I said
If your going to flex your intellectual muscles, atleast follow scripture. Your speaking just the opposite carnally of what the scripture says.

 

[Squeaky]

I'm just asking this out of curiosity… but, do you have any association with the Jehovah's Witnesses in the past, or currently?

Just wondering,

Travis

I said
I have never been affiliated with any denomination. I was called about the same way Paul was called. I went through the same walk as Paul. Three years in the milk understanding eleven years in the meat understanding. And then the revelations of Jesus Christ. Which I'm sharing with you all.