Welcome!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

SignUp Now!
  • Welcome to Talk Jesus Christian Forums

    Celebrating 20 Years!

    A bible based, Jesus Christ centered community.

    Register Log In

The need to be born again

Joined
May 14, 2018
Messages
74
A man who worked for our family does not believe in the 'near hereafter' .

He respects those who are Christians, but says that "When you are dead, you are dead"

This saddened me, because he is a good, honest, kind, sober man, who has worked hard and not been bitter about disappointments in life. He is skillful, he was fatherless, he helps widdows, he is not boastful and I am blessed to have known him for over 50 years.

At a "Businessmen's Full Gospel" dinner last week, the speaker asked us all to renew our prayer to BE BORN AGAIN in Christ, "For no man cometh to the Father but by Me", and in the wonderful way that the Holy Spirit reveals things, I now have the answer to something that has worried me for many years.

Where is their place in heaven for those who lived a righteous life, either without hearing of Jesus of before he was born?

The answer is "No man cometh to the Father, but by Me". If Jesus sees the good works that a man does on earth and approves of him, He will meet him and take him to His Father in heaven.
 
I have wondered about similar questions, wondering if a person can be born again after they die, I hope so, I do not know for sure. but God can give grace to anyone he wants that is for sure.

James 4:6
But he gives more grace. Therefore it says, “God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble.

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,
 
A man who worked for our family does not believe in the 'near hereafter' .

He respects those who are Christians, but says that "When you are dead, you are dead"

This saddened me, because he is a good, honest, kind, sober man, who has worked hard and not been bitter about disappointments in life. He is skillful, he was fatherless, he helps widdows, he is not boastful and I am blessed to have known him for over 50 years.

Ask him if he believes that way because of that false science "the evolution theory" .

Then point out to him that a historical person had died but did not stay dead, but had risen from the dead after three days & three nights in the earth. The Jews crucified Him and to this day, they still cannot produce the body of Jesus Christ.

At a "Businessmen's Full Gospel" dinner last week, the speaker asked us all to renew our prayer to BE BORN AGAIN in Christ, "For no man cometh to the Father but by Me", and in the wonderful way that the Holy Spirit reveals things, I now have the answer to something that has worried me for many years.

Where is their place in heaven for those who lived a righteous life, either without hearing of Jesus of before he was born?

The answer is "No man cometh to the Father, but by Me". If Jesus sees the good works that a man does on earth and approves of him, He will meet him and take him to His Father in heaven.

I have been to Businessmen's Full Gospel and the fact that they had asked you to renew yourself again by seeking to be Born Again in Christ, pretty much informs me that you are being led astray as I was. Don Reed of Crossing Paths Ministry, whom was one of the leaders in that Businessmen's Full Gospel meeting locally, was the one that had taght me I was to babble and the gift of tongues would come. I was able to discern that babbling will become a habit for which I could believe erroneously that the gift of tongues finally came when it becomes second nature to me and so I had stopped. I do not believe every one is supposed to speak in tongues and I am sure tongues do not come by habitually babbling for it to come.

Just as I do not believe a believer should ask for the Holy Spirit again unless you make the Father look evil as if He had not given you the Holy Spirit the first time as promised at the calling of the gospel.

Luke 11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. 10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? 12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

I understand that to many, they do experience a second phenomenon; like those that promote tongues for private use can be gained by seeking to receive the Holy Spirit apart from salvation by the evidence of tongues; and yet tongues do not serve as a sign towards believers for anything; 1 Corinthians 14:22 KJV as they are not for private use but prophesied for God to be using other men's lips to speak unto the people in 1 Corinthians 14:20-21 KJV )

BUT Paul warned against those who preach another Jesus or another spirit to receive... thus giving another calling....

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

That is why the apostle John warned every one not to believe every spirit, but test them in 1 John 4:1 KJV as the examination of our faith ( 2 Corinthians 13:5 KJV ) is mentioned in 1 John 4:2 KJV so that any spirit felt outside of us or coming over us again is that spirit of antichrist in 1 John 4:3 KJV so that is the line of discernment in testing the spirits by knowing the real Holy Spirit has been in you since you were saved ( John 14:16-17 KJV ) so that any spirit coming over you afterwards IS NOT the Holy Spirit but the spirit of the antichrist in 1 John 4:4 KJV even when it brings the supernatural tongue as found in the world which is just gibberish nonsense by the spirit of error in 1 John 4:5-6 KJV

You are not a leaky vessel that you need a constant infilling of the Holy Spirit or to renew yourself or to be born again "again", because the forever indwelling Holy Spirit is the promise that comes with our salvation so that we can testify to others that we are saved and that Jesus Christ IS our Saviour. So let the words of our mouths match our faith in Jesus Christ and may you find Him leading you to leave those meetings if they refuse correction by His words.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Matthew 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

Do you want to bear testimony that you are a leaky vessel, unable to hold the new wine or do you want to testify how you have been saved by faith in Jesus Christ, thereby a new creature thus a new wine bottle preserved as saved with the seal of the Holy Ghost?
 
I was fairly well versed in Christianity throughout my school years, and a couple of years later, having visited Lee Abbey in the autumn, asked Jesus to come into my life the following spring.

Among other illustrations around the Lee Abbey hall was a plough with the biblical warning that "He who puts his hand to the plough and looks back, is lost".

Of course one does look back, and as a result, for many wasted years I felt uncertain about my faith.

Fortunately, the "March of a thousand men" came to the village, and when I explained that I felt that I was probably lost, I was reassured that once I had made the commitment, Jesus would never give up on me.

I have been going to some Full Gospel meetings for about 10 years, and several times have seen people come forward, who were "Slain in the Spirit".

Wishing to be closer to Jesus, I have gone forward, but I wasn't slain, nor did I receive the gift of tongues, I think, that like being christened, it can not be done twice. I have several friends that do speak in tongues.

The Holy Spirit is very good to me, always so ready to help, and fortunately I usually remember to thank her, so I now feel assured of a place in heaven; not in one of the many mansions that Jesus mentioned; I will just be so grateful of a tumbled down cottage in a far corner.
 
The answer is "No man cometh to the Father, but by Me". If Jesus sees the good works that a man does on earth and approves of him, He will meet him and take him to His Father in heaven.

This answer is 100% correct.

I always think on how God found and chose Abraham. He scoured the earth for a holy / I imagine 'the' holiest', God fearing person. Revealed Himself to him. Grafted him into His family.

Abraham immediately accepted God. No resistance. God passed 'his tests'. Abraham tested God and God tested Abraham. Abraham found God to be a good God. We just need to read the discussion over the destruction of Sodom for that. We know God tested Abraham's obedience in sacrificing his son.

Bottom line, both wanting be certain of the other having a '''good'' nature. Upright. Holy. Righteous. Granted Abraham was not perfect.

Going off track a bit. But the underlying point is that, as you said, God does reveal Himself to those after His heart. God is scouring the earth for such. There is simply no such thing as a good God fearing person not running into Jesus!! and then not accepting Jesus.

It is like saying a person who likes candy, will reject free candy.
 
I was fairly well versed in Christianity throughout my school years, and a couple of years later, having visited Lee Abbey in the autumn, asked Jesus to come into my life the following spring.

Among other illustrations around the Lee Abbey hall was a plough with the biblical warning that "He who puts his hand to the plough and looks back, is lost".

Of course one does look back, and as a result, for many wasted years I felt uncertain about my faith.

Some points of faith you should reconsider.

Fortunately, the "March of a thousand men" came to the village, and when I explained that I felt that I was probably lost, I was reassured that once I had made the commitment, Jesus would never give up on me.

One point for reconsideration is that Jesus never had confidence in us to ask us to make a commitment or a promise to Him; but instead, to deny ourselves as able to follow Him as we were unable to save ourselves, and pick up our cross daily in the sense that it is not we who live, but Christ in us, is the how we are to follow Him by trusting Him as our Good Shepherd to help us to follow Him ( Luke 9:23 KJV ); for without faith it is impossible to please God; Hebrews 11:6 KJV

Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

No commitment nor promises is required when we, as little children, are to take Him at His word that once received at our salvation, He will never leave us.

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. .....20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

So all He is asking from you is to trust Him that since your salvation, He will never leave you. Granted, we are still in this fallen flesh for which we are cautioned not to grieve the Holy Spirit because He is not going anywhere.

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

We are always Spirit-filled as a testimony from God that we are saved since we had believed in Jesus Christ at the calling of the gospel.

Matthew 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

That is why in regards to this point of faith, our words should match His words in that we are forever Spirit-filled as a testimony from God in us that we are saved thanks to Jesus Christ at the calling of the gospel. Anything contrary to that testimony is not of Him but of the world for which many has been prophesied that would depart from faith in giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils, thinking they can receive the Holy Spirit again apart from salvation.

I have been going to some Full Gospel meetings for about 10 years, and several times have seen people come forward, who were "Slain in the Spirit".

Wishing to be closer to Jesus, I have gone forward, but I wasn't slain, nor did I receive the gift of tongues, I think, that like being christened, it can not be done twice. I have several friends that do speak in tongues.

1 Corinthians 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners. 34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

Such fellowship in their company can influence and eventually make you receptive of those spirits to receive after a sign if you believe the lie that you can receive the Holy Spirit "again" since He & the Son & the Father has never left. The fact that you refer to the Holy Spirit as a "her" in your quote below when Jesus referred to the Holy Spirit with the pronouns of "he" and "him", should be proof of their undue influence rather than the leading of the indwelling Holy Spirit in His words.

The Holy Spirit is very good to me, always so ready to help, and fortunately I usually remember to thank her, so I now feel assured of a place in heaven; not in one of the many mansions that Jesus mentioned; I will just be so grateful of a tumbled down cottage in a far corner.

There is only one drink of the One Spirit by the Father, Whom we all have been baptized by in Jesus's name. There can be no deference from that testimony we all are supposed to share; thus no other drink of the One Spirit apart from salvation.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

That is why believers are falling down because they are drinking from another fountain for believing in that lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit at other times besides at their salvation.

Proverbs 25:26 A righteous man falling down before the wicked is as a troubled fountain, and a corrupt spring. 27 It is not good to eat much honey: so for men to search their own glory is not glory. 28 He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls.

That is why they are falling down because they are drinking from another spirit; hence another fountain. Those who come to Jesus Christ has been promised by Him that they would never hunger nor thirst thus proving this other drink is not of Him at all but another calling and thus another gospel which is not of Him.

John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Those who fall down in confusion, do glory in it as it draws attention to them while receiving that spirit that after the sign of knocking them down, entice others to chase after them to receive in like manner.

So without a doubt, brother Thomas, you need to go before that throne of grace and ask Jesus for help, because He is the only access to the Father as the Son is the only One that answers prayers so that the Father may be glorified in Him.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. ..........13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

The Holy Spirit is not to be addressed nor thanked because it is the will of the Father to relate to Him by way of the Bridegroom so keep your eyes on Him since we had been reconciled to God thru Jesus Christ, then we can only live this reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ; Jesus relates to us thru the Holy Spirit in us, but our response is back to the Bridegroom, not back thru the Holy Spirit in us.

John 10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. 8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. 9 I am the door: ...

That is why scripture only provided one kind of invitation in coming to God the Father by for anything and that is why the Holy Spirit in believers is still pointing believers to go to the Son for everything to avoid the spirits of the antichrist.

You may find the Lord Jesus Christ leading you away from that fellowship since they will never receive correction as they will take pride in it rather than repent to be found abiding in His words when the Bridegroom comes.

2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
 
Some points of faith you should reconsider.



One point for reconsideration is that Jesus never had confidence in us to ask us to make a commitment or a promise to Him; but instead, to deny ourselves as able to follow Him as we were unable to save ourselves, and pick up our cross daily in the sense that it is not we who live, but Christ in us, is the how we are to follow Him by trusting Him as our Good Shepherd to help us to follow Him ( Luke 9:23 KJV ); for without faith it is impossible to please God; Hebrews 11:6 KJV

Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

No commitment nor promises is required when we, as little children, are to take Him at His word that once received at our salvation, He will never leave us.

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. .....20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

So all He is asking from you is to trust Him that since your salvation, He will never leave you. Granted, we are still in this fallen flesh for which we are cautioned not to grieve the Holy Spirit because He is not going anywhere.

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

We are always Spirit-filled as a testimony from God that we are saved since we had believed in Jesus Christ at the calling of the gospel.

Matthew 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

That is why in regards to this point of faith, our words should match His words in that we are forever Spirit-filled as a testimony from God in us that we are saved thanks to Jesus Christ at the calling of the gospel. Anything contrary to that testimony is not of Him but of the world for which many has been prophesied that would depart from faith in giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils, thinking they can receive the Holy Spirit again apart from salvation.



1 Corinthians 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners. 34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

Such fellowship in their company can influence and eventually make you receptive of those spirits to receive after a sign if you believe the lie that you can receive the Holy Spirit "again" since He & the Son & the Father has never left. The fact that you refer to the Holy Spirit as a "her" in your quote below when Jesus referred to the Holy Spirit with the pronouns of "he" and "him", should be proof of their undue influence rather than the leading of the indwelling Holy Spirit in His words.



There is only one drink of the One Spirit by the Father, Whom we all have been baptized by in Jesus's name. There can be no deference from that testimony we all are supposed to share; thus no other drink of the One Spirit apart from salvation.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

That is why believers are falling down because they are drinking from another fountain for believing in that lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit at other times besides at their salvation.

Proverbs 25:26 A righteous man falling down before the wicked is as a troubled fountain, and a corrupt spring. 27 It is not good to eat much honey: so for men to search their own glory is not glory. 28 He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls.

That is why they are falling down because they are drinking from another spirit; hence another fountain. Those who come to Jesus Christ has been promised by Him that they would never hunger nor thirst thus proving this other drink is not of Him at all but another calling and thus another gospel which is not of Him.

John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Those who fall down in confusion, do glory in it as it draws attention to them while receiving that spirit that after the sign of knocking them down, entice others to chase after them to receive in like manner.

So without a doubt, brother Thomas, you need to go before that throne of grace and ask Jesus for help, because He is the only access to the Father as the Son is the only One that answers prayers so that the Father may be glorified in Him.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. ..........13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

The Holy Spirit is not to be addressed nor thanked because it is the will of the Father to relate to Him by way of the Bridegroom so keep your eyes on Him since we had been reconciled to God thru Jesus Christ, then we can only live this reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ; Jesus relates to us thru the Holy Spirit in us, but our response is back to the Bridegroom, not back thru the Holy Spirit in us.

John 10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. 8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. 9 I am the door: ...

That is why scripture only provided one kind of invitation in coming to God the Father by for anything and that is why the Holy Spirit in believers is still pointing believers to go to the Son for everything to avoid the spirits of the antichrist.

You may find the Lord Jesus Christ leading you away from that fellowship since they will never receive correction as they will take pride in it rather than repent to be found abiding in His words when the Bridegroom comes.

2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.



Thank you 4Me, so much for writing to me.

I am sorry if I offend by referring to the Holy Spirit as She/Her. I don't always do it, but a "spirit" is without gender and His care and loving kindness is, I feel, like that of a mother for her child.

I was a little surprised at the Full Gospel speaker's suggestion, but who am I to question someone who as our guest had told us of the wonderful acts of healing that Jesus had done when he prayed to Him.

Bless you,

Thomas.
 
Back
Top