Curtis
Loyal
Can a person be saved having never believing in Jesus as was Judas? Judas killed himself and went to his own place. The rich young did not follow Jesus even after Jesus inviting him to follow him.
The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !
- Thread starter Brightfame52
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Brightfame52
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I believe judas wasnt saved or loved by Christ, nor a believer, the rich young ruler i believe became a believer later since Jesus Loved him
The hope is that the question is never random for the one asking. However, it does not obligate the recipient to respond.
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><
Curtis
Loyal
Judas never believed in Jesus yet Jesus loved him by even washing his feet along with all his disciples.
Psa 41:9 Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me.
Did Jesus love those whom he called his friends?
B-A-C
Loyal
John 15:8 "My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples.
John 15:9 "Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love.
John 13:34 "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
John 13:35 "By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."
Why wasn't Judas excluded in these verses?
John 15:9 "Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love.
John 13:34 "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
John 13:35 "By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."
Why wasn't Judas excluded in these verses?
B-A-C
Loyal
Rom 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Jesus loves even unsaved sinners. The love of Jesus is NOT the salvation of Jesus.
B-A-C
Loyal
2Sam 12:24 Then David comforted his wife Bathsheba, and went in to her and lay with her; and she gave birth to a son, and he named him Solomon. Now the LORD loved him
1Kin 11:4 For when Solomon was old, his wives turned his heart away after other gods; and his heart was not wholly devoted to the LORD his God, as the heart of David his father had been.
1Kin 11:5 For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Sidonians and after Milcom the detestable idol of the Ammonites.
1Kin 11:6 Solomon did what was evil in the sight of the LORD, and did not follow the LORD fully, as David his father had done.
1Kin 11:7 Then Solomon built a high place for Chemosh the detestable idol of Moab, on the mountain which is east of Jerusalem, and for Molech the detestable idol of the sons of Ammon.
1Kin 11:4 For when Solomon was old, his wives turned his heart away after other gods; and his heart was not wholly devoted to the LORD his God, as the heart of David his father had been.
1Kin 11:5 For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Sidonians and after Milcom the detestable idol of the Ammonites.
1Kin 11:6 Solomon did what was evil in the sight of the LORD, and did not follow the LORD fully, as David his father had done.
1Kin 11:7 Then Solomon built a high place for Chemosh the detestable idol of Moab, on the mountain which is east of Jerusalem, and for Molech the detestable idol of the sons of Ammon.
Brightfame52
Active
Again,I believe judas wasnt saved or loved by Christ, nor a believer, the rich young ruler i believe became a believer later since Jesus Loved him
Brightfame52
Active
The us of Rom 5:8 is the elect, the same us as in Rom 8:33-34
33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Rhema
Active
Uh.. Because Judas wasn't there?
He then having received the sop went immediately out: and it was night.
(John 13:30 KJV)Brightfame52
Active
His Great Love quickens the Dead !
His Great Love quickens the Dead !
I know that God does not Love everyone without exception because everyone without exception is not and will not be quickened because of His Great Love. Eph 2:4-5
4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )
God performed this deed for those He Loved while they were dead in sins. Not when they repented or when they came in Faith, but even while dead. In fact coming in repentance and faith are direct results of having been quickened or made alive.
The psalmist wrote once this Ps 80:18
18So will not we go back from thee: quicken us, and we will call upon thy name.
The calling upon the name of the Lord follows the quickening..
God's Love to those He Loves is not just a mere emotion, but it is also application. God's Love gives Life [spiritual] to dead sinners.
This was Illustrated with Jesus and the story of Lazarus See Jn 11:3,36
Lazarus was one for scripture says Jesus loved " behold, how He loved him"
Christ love was demonstrated by quickening Lazarus from the dead.
God nor Christ's Love could be of no lesser degree of that which they command of their followers. 1 Jn 3:16-18
16Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
17But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
18My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
Let us Love in deed. The word deed is the same word in the greek for work, its the word ergon and it means doing !
James using the almost same identical situation adds this James 2:
15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Does not God's Love give those He Loves what is needful for their souls.
God's Love gives those He loves, and sees them dead in trespasses and sins, He is mover with compassion and gives them life from the dead. Love expresses itself in deed to the brethren.
Now are not those Christ died for considered His brethren ? Heb 2:11,17
11For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Where they not His Brethren before they believed in Him ? Yes they were, thats why He was made like unto them to deliver them from their spiritual ruin and enmity against God.
Was He not the Firstborn of many Brethren who had not yet been born sinners ? Rom 8:29
29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
If Christ sees one of His Brethren dead in trespasses and sins, and He has all Power in His Hands, will He suffer His Brethren, whom for sure He Loves, to remain helpless in that dead state ? Cannot and will He not quicken whomsoever He wills? Jn 5:21
21For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. Certainly He will s to quicken those He Loves, He laid His life down for them. Jn 15:13
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
Scripture says that He died for them while they were yet enemies, and in spite of that, by His death He reconciled them to God, and those so reconciled [even while dead in sin and enemies] Shall be saved[Experientially] by His Life. That says it all.
It can read Shall be quickened by His Life, made alive. So, those who die in their sins, dead to God, alienated from Him, God did not Love them, nor did Christ Love them and Lay down His Life for them, if He did ,He would have quickened them, made them alive, saved them. Eph 2:5
5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
Ye see that ? The quickening results in being saved by Grace 3
His Great Love quickens the Dead !
I know that God does not Love everyone without exception because everyone without exception is not and will not be quickened because of His Great Love. Eph 2:4-5
4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )
God performed this deed for those He Loved while they were dead in sins. Not when they repented or when they came in Faith, but even while dead. In fact coming in repentance and faith are direct results of having been quickened or made alive.
The psalmist wrote once this Ps 80:18
18So will not we go back from thee: quicken us, and we will call upon thy name.
The calling upon the name of the Lord follows the quickening..
God's Love to those He Loves is not just a mere emotion, but it is also application. God's Love gives Life [spiritual] to dead sinners.
This was Illustrated with Jesus and the story of Lazarus See Jn 11:3,36
Lazarus was one for scripture says Jesus loved " behold, how He loved him"
Christ love was demonstrated by quickening Lazarus from the dead.
God nor Christ's Love could be of no lesser degree of that which they command of their followers. 1 Jn 3:16-18
16Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
17But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
18My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
Let us Love in deed. The word deed is the same word in the greek for work, its the word ergon and it means doing !
James using the almost same identical situation adds this James 2:
15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Does not God's Love give those He Loves what is needful for their souls.
God's Love gives those He loves, and sees them dead in trespasses and sins, He is mover with compassion and gives them life from the dead. Love expresses itself in deed to the brethren.
Now are not those Christ died for considered His brethren ? Heb 2:11,17
11For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Where they not His Brethren before they believed in Him ? Yes they were, thats why He was made like unto them to deliver them from their spiritual ruin and enmity against God.
Was He not the Firstborn of many Brethren who had not yet been born sinners ? Rom 8:29
29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
If Christ sees one of His Brethren dead in trespasses and sins, and He has all Power in His Hands, will He suffer His Brethren, whom for sure He Loves, to remain helpless in that dead state ? Cannot and will He not quicken whomsoever He wills? Jn 5:21
21For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. Certainly He will s to quicken those He Loves, He laid His life down for them. Jn 15:13
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
Scripture says that He died for them while they were yet enemies, and in spite of that, by His death He reconciled them to God, and those so reconciled [even while dead in sin and enemies] Shall be saved[Experientially] by His Life. That says it all.
It can read Shall be quickened by His Life, made alive. So, those who die in their sins, dead to God, alienated from Him, God did not Love them, nor did Christ Love them and Lay down His Life for them, if He did ,He would have quickened them, made them alive, saved them. Eph 2:5
5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
Ye see that ? The quickening results in being saved by Grace 3
Curtis
Loyal
Wrong, I have scripture you have only your opinion.
th1bill
Active
Four Parts of Romans 8:29
Our aim in this lesson is to understand four parts of Romans 8:29.
- The connection with verse 28.
"FOR whom he foreknew . . . " - The meaning of God's foreknowledge.
"For whom he FOREKNEW, he also predestined . . . " - The aim of predestination for our good.
" . . . to become conformed to the image of his Son . . . " - The aim of predestination for Christ's glory.
" . . . that he might be the first-born among many brethren."
God knows the beginning from the end but how is that explained? Existing outside the Time/Space Continuum we live in, Yehovah knew more than 6,000 years ago that on 1/1/'90, Bill Taylor would sing in the New Year, only to leave unpaid to serve Him from that day forward.
Knowing my predetermination Yahovah predestined my Salvation.
Brightfame52
Active
It doesnt matter what you have, you dont strike me as being one that understands scripture
Brightfame52
Active
Jer 31:3 Everlasting Love
Jer 31:3
3The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.
Those whom God Loves He Loves them with an everlasting Love, centered in Jesus Christ whom He Loved with an Everlasting Love Jn 17:23-24
23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
For God could never tell any Being He Loved them with an everlasting Love apart from Christ Rom 8:39
39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
And since this True, He draws all so Loved to Himself. He does this by putting His Spirit in them.
The word lovingkindness is the word checed and can mean Faithfulness or mercy. Its translated mercy 149 times in the OT
The word drawn denotes the efficaciousness of His Grace.
This refers to the Church, which at that time was mostly confined to the jews, and this Love and Faithfulness is due to the Everlasting Covenant or the New Covenant. Later in the same Chapter we have this : Jer 31:31-34
31Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
The Fruit and Effect of God's Love will always draw individuals to Christ, to find their Life in Him , which Life they had in Him as His Seed, being Chosen in Him before the foundation. 3
Jer 31:3
3The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.
Those whom God Loves He Loves them with an everlasting Love, centered in Jesus Christ whom He Loved with an Everlasting Love Jn 17:23-24
23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
For God could never tell any Being He Loved them with an everlasting Love apart from Christ Rom 8:39
39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
And since this True, He draws all so Loved to Himself. He does this by putting His Spirit in them.
The word lovingkindness is the word checed and can mean Faithfulness or mercy. Its translated mercy 149 times in the OT
The word drawn denotes the efficaciousness of His Grace.
This refers to the Church, which at that time was mostly confined to the jews, and this Love and Faithfulness is due to the Everlasting Covenant or the New Covenant. Later in the same Chapter we have this : Jer 31:31-34
31Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
The Fruit and Effect of God's Love will always draw individuals to Christ, to find their Life in Him , which Life they had in Him as His Seed, being Chosen in Him before the foundation. 3
KingJ
Loyal
Making a post like this on Christmas day, you a real Grinch!
Brightfame52
Active
oh really, Merry Xmas to you too
Brightfame52
Active
God is Love !
1 Jn 4:8
He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
God is Love has been one of the Truth's that false religion has used to deny other Truth's about God, like for instance, what the bible sets forth as God's main Attribute, and That is God is Holy !
Ps 99:9
Exalt the LORD our God, and worship at his holy hill; for the LORD our God is holy.
Isa 5:16
But the LORD of hosts shall be exalted in judgment, and God that is holy shall be sanctified in righteousness.
Isa 43:3
For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour
This attribute so describes God that Isa says Thrice of Him Isa 6:3
3And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.
Never do we read in scripture Love,Love, Love is the Lord of Hosts !
So God's Love is and must be a Holy Love, a Love that arises from His Holiness, a Love directed by His Holiness and Justice for sin and evil which He hates. God cannot and will not Love anyone or anything He views as Unholy, because He hates evil and is of purer eyes to behold it favorably Hab 1:13
Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity: wherefore lookest thou upon them that deal treacherously, and holdest thy tongue when the wicked devoureth the man that is more righteous than he?
God hates evil which is to include wicked people or persons as individuals Ps 5:5
5The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
God hates the foolish, that is such as have not had Christ made unto them wisdom 1 Cor 1:30
30But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption
God has left them in their own foolish wisdom which is devilish James 2:14-15
14But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
15This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
They also are the workers of iniquity, emphasis on the individuals WORKERS of Iniquity, God hates them, because they are outside of God's Elective Purpose in Christ whereby their sins are not covered Ps 32:1-2
1Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
2Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.
They are not blessed of God and God charges their iniquities unto them, so they are justly called workers of iniquity, in contrast to those blessed in Election, and whom God will not impute iniquity to their Charge.
God hates any and all whom He did Love and Choose in Christ before the world began. Eph 1:4-5; Rom 8:39 Only those sinners God Loved in Christ are Loved by God Rom 8:39
39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
In the original the definite article precedes Love of God It is the only Love God has, its anchored in Christ Jesus our Lord. All those Chosen in Him before the world began are Loved by God 2 Tim 1:9
9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
These, though sinners by nature, are still viewed by God as Holy and without Blame before Him in Love Eph 1:4
4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
They are already Holy and without blame positionally and legally,but God is fulfilling His purpose through Jesus Christ that they will also be that way experientially !
And thats why God can Love them as sinners, because He views them in Christ Jesus.
This however is in total contrast to those sinners He did choose in Christ, did not Love in Christ, these be the ones He hates Ps 5:5. So God is Love to those He sent Christ into the world to be a propitiation for their sins 1 Jn 4:10
Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
If Christ was the propitiation for their sins, then they would not be viewed by God as workers of iniquity, who obviously have their sins charged to them, for God does not charge sin to those He loved, but charged it upon their Saviour Substitute Isa 53:6
6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
That cannot include those who God calls the workers of iniquity Ps 5:5
These God has not been propitiated for by Christ, which if God Loved them, would have been !
So God is Love, but only and exclusively in Christ Jesus our Lord ! 3
1 Jn 4:8
He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
God is Love has been one of the Truth's that false religion has used to deny other Truth's about God, like for instance, what the bible sets forth as God's main Attribute, and That is God is Holy !
Ps 99:9
Exalt the LORD our God, and worship at his holy hill; for the LORD our God is holy.
Isa 5:16
But the LORD of hosts shall be exalted in judgment, and God that is holy shall be sanctified in righteousness.
Isa 43:3
For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour
This attribute so describes God that Isa says Thrice of Him Isa 6:3
3And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.
Never do we read in scripture Love,Love, Love is the Lord of Hosts !
So God's Love is and must be a Holy Love, a Love that arises from His Holiness, a Love directed by His Holiness and Justice for sin and evil which He hates. God cannot and will not Love anyone or anything He views as Unholy, because He hates evil and is of purer eyes to behold it favorably Hab 1:13
Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity: wherefore lookest thou upon them that deal treacherously, and holdest thy tongue when the wicked devoureth the man that is more righteous than he?
God hates evil which is to include wicked people or persons as individuals Ps 5:5
5The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
God hates the foolish, that is such as have not had Christ made unto them wisdom 1 Cor 1:30
30But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption
God has left them in their own foolish wisdom which is devilish James 2:14-15
14But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
15This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
They also are the workers of iniquity, emphasis on the individuals WORKERS of Iniquity, God hates them, because they are outside of God's Elective Purpose in Christ whereby their sins are not covered Ps 32:1-2
1Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
2Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.
They are not blessed of God and God charges their iniquities unto them, so they are justly called workers of iniquity, in contrast to those blessed in Election, and whom God will not impute iniquity to their Charge.
God hates any and all whom He did Love and Choose in Christ before the world began. Eph 1:4-5; Rom 8:39 Only those sinners God Loved in Christ are Loved by God Rom 8:39
39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
In the original the definite article precedes Love of God It is the only Love God has, its anchored in Christ Jesus our Lord. All those Chosen in Him before the world began are Loved by God 2 Tim 1:9
9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
These, though sinners by nature, are still viewed by God as Holy and without Blame before Him in Love Eph 1:4
4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
They are already Holy and without blame positionally and legally,but God is fulfilling His purpose through Jesus Christ that they will also be that way experientially !
And thats why God can Love them as sinners, because He views them in Christ Jesus.
This however is in total contrast to those sinners He did choose in Christ, did not Love in Christ, these be the ones He hates Ps 5:5. So God is Love to those He sent Christ into the world to be a propitiation for their sins 1 Jn 4:10
Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
If Christ was the propitiation for their sins, then they would not be viewed by God as workers of iniquity, who obviously have their sins charged to them, for God does not charge sin to those He loved, but charged it upon their Saviour Substitute Isa 53:6
6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
That cannot include those who God calls the workers of iniquity Ps 5:5
These God has not been propitiated for by Christ, which if God Loved them, would have been !
So God is Love, but only and exclusively in Christ Jesus our Lord ! 3
KingJ
Loyal
What Christian says Xmas...
- Status